Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 Dear Bhaktas, The recent firestorm we witnessed was made in the context of objections to Saraswati Puja, or even a Hayagriva Aradhana done on that day in lieu of Saraswati Puja, under certain conditions. In this regard, I have a few doubts that members can hopefully shed light on: (a) In a recent Kanninun Siruttambu upanyAsam by Srimad Azhagiya Singar, when it was being decided as to when to hold the next upanyAsam, Srimad Azhagiya Singar said, " ... paarkalaam; aduththa vaaram Saraswati poojai ... " Is Saraswati Puja (or something similar) conducted on Mahanavami in Sri Ahobila Matham? Could someone clarify what Srimad Azhagiya Singar was referring to? (b) In a conversation with Sri Rangapriya Swami of Bangalore on this topic, Sri Swami categorically stated that Saraswati should not be thought of as an " anya-devatA " -- this was stated in front of several Sri Vaishnava Veda adhyApakas. Is there a diversity of opinions concerning the concept of " Saraswati " within the sampradAya? © Are those who have objected to Saraswati Puja also objecting to doing vidyArambham on Vijaya Dasami, preceded by ArAdhanam on Mahanavami? What is the traditional viewpoint on this widespread (almost universal) practice, even among Sri Vaishnavas? (d) Is it the explicit and uniform opinion of all acharyas of " Sri Desika sampradAyam " that it is preferable not to keep the NavarAtri golu, and to not invite sumangalis over to enjoy the decorations of the golu? I am a little bit confused by this edict, as I have seen even vIra-Vaishnava families actively participate in this social aspect of Navaratri. (e) If it is the uniform opinion that the golu and vidyArambham not be done, what is the meaning of Navaratri? Should it be observed at all by Sri Vaishnavas, and in what way? I hope members can provide clarifications. daasan, Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 Dear Sri Mani, adiyen does not have answers to all your questions, but adiyen hopes that the following helps to some extent at least. >Dear Bhaktas, > >The recent firestorm we witnessed was made in the >context of objections to Saraswati Puja, or even >a Hayagriva Aradhana done on that day in lieu of >Saraswati Puja, under certain conditions. In this >regard, I have a few doubts that members can >hopefully shed light on: > >(a) In a recent Kanninun Siruttambu upanyAsam by > Srimad Azhagiya Singar, when it was being decided > as to when to hold the next upanyAsam, Srimad > Azhagiya Singar said, " ... paarkalaam; aduththa > vaaram Saraswati poojai ... " > > Is Saraswati Puja (or something similar) conducted > on Mahanavami in Sri Ahobila Matham? Could someone > clarify what Srimad Azhagiya Singar was referring > to? From what adiyen has heard this is in Paancharaatra Agamas and meant for temples and institutions like Sri Ahobila Mutt. It is not a procedure that is ordained for homes in Saastras. > >(b) In a conversation with Sri Rangapriya Swami > of Bangalore on this topic, Sri Swami categorically > stated that Saraswati should not be thought of as > an " anya-devatA " -- this was stated in front of > several Sri Vaishnava Veda adhyApakas. Is there > a diversity of opinions concerning the concept of > " Saraswati " within the sampradAya? You should be one telling us what Sri Rangapriya Swamy said exactly and the relevant context. Gayatri, Savitri and Saraswati are the 3 wives of Brahma in the leela vibhuti. When we do AvAhanam to them during the 3 sandhyavandanams, we actually invite Sriman Narayana who has these 3 devatas as His Sariram. This Sarira Sariri Bhaavam is meant exclusively for karmas ordained by the Vedas. Did Sri Rangapriya Swami say that Saraswati Puja on Navami is ordained in the Vedas. If He said that Saraswati should not be looked upon as an anya devata, could he have been meaning the Saraswati AvAhanam during the evening Sandhyavandanam? If that were to be the case, there is no contradiction between the statements of other Bhagavatas like Karunaakaran Swami that Saraswati Puja should not be done and what Sri Rangapriya Swami said. > >© Are those who have objected to Saraswati Puja > also objecting to doing vidyArambham on Vijaya Dasami, > preceded by ArAdhanam on Mahanavami? What is the > traditional viewpoint on this widespread (almost > universal) practice, even among Sri Vaishnavas? > >(d) Is it the explicit and uniform opinion of all acharyas > of " Sri Desika sampradAyam " that it is preferable not > to keep the NavarAtri golu, and to not invite sumangalis > over to enjoy the decorations of the golu? I am a little > bit confused by this edict, as I have seen even > vIra-Vaishnava families actively participate in this > social aspect of Navaratri. > adiyen does not know about the practice of vidyarambham on Vijayadasami day. Vijayadasami day is very auspicious to start anything including vidya. But adiyen has heard categorically from the late Sri U. Ve. Kannan Swamy that Kolu is not a Srivaishnava practice. adiyen has heard the same thing from Sri Sadagopan when adiyen inquired about the practices of the 2 Srivaishnava giants in Sri Sadagopan's neighbourhood near Oppaliappan Sannidhi. >(e) If it is the uniform opinion that the golu and vidyArambham > not be done, what is the meaning of Navaratri? Should it > be observed at all by Sri Vaishnavas, and in what way? In the Thaathaacharya vamsam, the practice is to do Ramayana or at least Sundarakaanda Paaraayanam during the 2 navaraatris - the first one immediately preceding Ramanavami and this traditionally called Kolu. > >I hope members can provide clarifications. > >daasan, >Mani > adiyen Ramauja daasan, jagan. > > > >------ >Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka >Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya Nama: > > ____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 1999 Report Share Posted October 28, 1999 Sri Jagan wrote: > From what adiyen has heard [saraswati Puja] is in Paancharaatra > Agamas and meant for temples and institutions like Sri Ahobila Mutt. > It is not a procedure that is ordained for homes in Saastras. Jagan, thanks for your kind clarification. Unfortunately, several questions remain unanswered. Is there an explanation for why Saraswati Puja is ordained in the maTha but not at homes? It would seem that if Saraswati is " anya devata " , she should be especially " nishiddham " in SrI maTham. I also have heard (on tape) the words of Sri U.Ve. Velukkudi Varadachariar Swami. I know he is probably not to be mentioned on Malolan Net, as he is not a Vadagalai acharya, but for what it's worth, Sri Swami said, " On Mahanavami many people do Saraswati Puja. It's not that we don't do these practices; we do them as well, but with a different mental approach. We perform Hayagriva Aradhanam on that day. " He then cited Naanmugan Thiruvandaadi 40, which speaks of Perumaal as " noolaatti kELvan " . But once again, I am not sure what validity the opinion of Sri Velukkudi Swami will have among some members here. > You should be one telling us what Sri Rangapriya Swamy said exactly and the > relevant context. The context was this. I asked Rangapriya Swami whether Saraswati should be thought of as " anya devatA " . He categorically said, " No, she is not anya devata " . He then had a sishya bring a picture of Lakshmi-Hayagriva and, pointing to Lakshmi, said, " See, this is Saraswati " . He also gave instruction as to how to mentally picture Saraswati -- with one hand raised up, and the other below, as if bestowing a gift upon the worshipper. This was *not* done exclusively in the context of nitya-karmas. I understood it to be general advice. I asked, to confirm, whether we should think of Saraswati as Lakshmi, and he said " Yes " . > This Sarira Sariri Bhaavam is meant exclusively for karmas > ordained by the Vedas. This is the second time I have read on Malolan Net in the recent past, and it is quite confusing to me. If the SarIra-SarIri-bhAvam is applicable only to nitya-naimittika karmas, how are we to understand statements from the Upanishads which say, " mano brahmeti upAsIta " -- worship the mind as Brahman, or Indra's advice to Pratardana in the Pratardana-vidya (Prasna Upanishad), wherein he says, " mAm upAsya " (worship me)? Bhagavad Bhashyakaarar says that this means worship Narayana as qualified by these entities (Indra, Mind, etc.) as His body. These injunctions to meditate are not " karmas " ordained by the Vedas; they are descriptions of brahma-vidya, or meditative knowledge. It was objected that this means that we can worship a stool, as long as Narayana is considered the indweller. In fact, this is *precisely* the position of Bhashyakaarar, at some level of the meditation. This is established in the " pratIkAdharaNa " , which describes meditation on " pratIkas " or objects which have Narayana as their antaryAmi. In Vaidika karmas (*not* necesarily nitya-karmas), we do Vishvaksena Aradhanam, for example, and we invoke (AvAhanam) the presence of Vishvaksena in a kalasam. This is just yet another example of this form of meditation, where we use the magnificent concept of SarIra-SarIri-bhAva (and Perumaal's special sankalpa to receive our worship) to see the unity of all things in Narayana. > But adiyen has heard categorically from the late Sri U. Ve. Kannan Swamy > that Kolu is not a Srivaishnava practice. adiyen has heard the same thing > from Sri Sadagopan when adiyen inquired about the practices of the 2 > Srivaishnava giants in Sri Sadagopan's neighbourhood near Oppaliappan > Sannidhi. It seems there is some confusion between what is " religious practice " (i.e., Vaidika) and " social practice " . The latter includes your child putting up a picture of his or her favorite movie star, people gathering together and talking about the world's events, etc. " Kolu " , from all I can gather, is a social practice, where (primarily) women invite each other to their houses and show off their family's collection of dolls, etc. In this way, of course " Kolu " is not a Sri Vaishnava practice, but does it mean that it should be forbidden? Naturally, Vaidikas may not take an active role in this -- they are probably engaged in Sri Ramayana pArAyaNam, etc., -- but merely putting dolls on shelves and decorating them for social reasons (not religious / worshipful reasons) does not seem to invalidate one's " aikAntitva " to Sriman Narayana. From personal experience, I can say this -- both of my grandfathers were vIra-vaishnavas who moved among and studied under many Vaidikas -- Uttamur Swamy, Abhinava Ranganatha Parakala Swami, etc. They were more regular in their AchAram and anushThAnam than anyone I have seen in this country, and had a knowledge and grasp of shastras that was rare for laukikas. Yet, they permitted the construction of elaborate kolus in their houses (with waterfalls, etc.), had Saraswati paThams prominently placed in their house, and did vidyArambham for their children on Vijaya Dasami. Is this testimony worth anything? daasan, Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 1999 Report Share Posted October 29, 1999 As far as I know there is no sarasvati puja in Sri ahobilamuth. However, many srivaishnavas who are very strong vira vaishnavas still do such golu pandiges due to social issues. Predominantly they are from karnataka. Even my home OK's it. However Saraswathi puja is not done. there may be dolls of many dieties. Please note that his practice is a special one started by " krishna raja vadeyor " ie. king of mysore in those days. It is some how not questioned and let go. this is not a srivaishnava festival. The name saraswathi is still the name of Lakshmi. For example adiyen is named krishna after lord krishna. similarly brahma's wife was named after Mahalakshmi's name which is saraswathi, this is in ahirbudhnya samhita. In that sense such worship is fine. for example - lakshmi astottara states - nava durgam mahakalim brahma vishnu sivatmikam..... Please note clearly that I am not advocating that these devatas are same as Lakshmi. the very fact I gave my example as krishna's name clearly states that. saraswathi is definitely an " anyadevatha " . How can she be not, being daughter / wife of Brahma? adiyen krishna Mani Varadarajan [sMTP:mani] Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:36 PM Re: Saraswati Puja Sri Jagan wrote: > From what adiyen has heard [saraswati Puja] is in Paancharaatra > Agamas and meant for temples and institutions like Sri Ahobila Mutt. > It is not a procedure that is ordained for homes in Saastras. Jagan, thanks for your kind clarification. Unfortunately, several questions remain unanswered. Is there an explanation for why Saraswati Puja is ordained in the maTha but not at homes? It would seem that if Saraswati is " anya devata " , she should be especially " nishiddham " in SrI maTham. I also have heard (on tape) the words of Sri U.Ve. Velukkudi Varadachariar Swami. I know he is probably not to be mentioned on Malolan Net, as he is not a Vadagalai acharya, but for what it's worth, Sri Swami said, " On Mahanavami many people do Saraswati Puja. It's not that we don't do these practices; we do them as well, but with a different mental approach. We perform Hayagriva Aradhanam on that day. " He then cited Naanmugan Thiruvandaadi 40, which speaks of Perumaal as " noolaatti kELvan " . But once again, I am not sure what validity the opinion of Sri Velukkudi Swami will have among some members here. > You should be one telling us what Sri Rangapriya Swamy said exactly and the > relevant context. The context was this. I asked Rangapriya Swami whether Saraswati should be thought of as " anya devatA " . He categorically said, " No, she is not anya devata " . He then had a sishya bring a picture of Lakshmi-Hayagriva and, pointing to Lakshmi, said, " See, this is Saraswati " . He also gave instruction as to how to mentally picture Saraswati -- with one hand raised up, and the other below, as if bestowing a gift upon the worshipper. This was *not* done exclusively in the context of nitya-karmas. I understood it to be general advice. I asked, to confirm, whether we should think of Saraswati as Lakshmi, and he said " Yes " . > This Sarira Sariri Bhaavam is meant exclusively for karmas > ordained by the Vedas. This is the second time I have read on Malolan Net in the recent past, and it is quite confusing to me. If the SarIra-SarIri-bhAvam is applicable only to nitya-naimittika karmas, how are we to understand statements from the Upanishads which say, " mano brahmeti upAsIta " -- worship the mind as Brahman, or Indra's advice to Pratardana in the Pratardana-vidya (Prasna Upanishad), wherein he says, " mAm upAsya " (worship me)? Bhagavad Bhashyakaarar says that this means worship Narayana as qualified by these entities (Indra, Mind, etc.) as His body. These injunctions to meditate are not " karmas " ordained by the Vedas; they are descriptions of brahma-vidya, or meditative knowledge. It was objected that this means that we can worship a stool, as long as Narayana is considered the indweller. In fact, this is *precisely* the position of Bhashyakaarar, at some level of the meditation. This is established in the " pratIkAdharaNa " , which describes meditation on " pratIkas " or objects which have Narayana as their antaryAmi. In Vaidika karmas (*not* necesarily nitya-karmas), we do Vishvaksena Aradhanam, for example, and we invoke (AvAhanam) the presence of Vishvaksena in a kalasam. This is just yet another example of this form of meditation, where we use the magnificent concept of SarIra-SarIri-bhAva (and Perumaal's special sankalpa to receive our worship) to see the unity of all things in Narayana. > But adiyen has heard categorically from the late Sri U. Ve. Kannan Swamy > that Kolu is not a Srivaishnava practice. adiyen has heard the same thing > from Sri Sadagopan when adiyen inquired about the practices of the 2 > Srivaishnava giants in Sri Sadagopan's neighbourhood near Oppaliappan > Sannidhi. It seems there is some confusion between what is " religious practice " (i.e., Vaidika) and " social practice " . The latter includes your child putting up a picture of his or her favorite movie star, people gathering together and talking about the world's events, etc. " Kolu " , from all I can gather, is a social practice, where (primarily) women invite each other to their houses and show off their family's collection of dolls, etc. In this way, of course " Kolu " is not a Sri Vaishnava practice, but does it mean that it should be forbidden? Naturally, Vaidikas may not take an active role in this -- they are probably engaged in Sri Ramayana pArAyaNam, etc., -- but merely putting dolls on shelves and decorating them for social reasons (not religious / worshipful reasons) does not seem to invalidate one's " aikAntitva " to Sriman Narayana. From personal experience, I can say this -- both of my grandfathers were vIra-vaishnavas who moved among and studied under many Vaidikas -- Uttamur Swamy, Abhinava Ranganatha Parakala Swami, etc. They were more regular in their AchAram and anushThAnam than anyone I have seen in this country, and had a knowledge and grasp of shastras that was rare for laukikas. Yet, they permitted the construction of elaborate kolus in their houses (with waterfalls, etc.), had Saraswati paThams prominently placed in their house, and did vidyArambham for their children on Vijaya Dasami. Is this testimony worth anything? daasan, Mani ------ Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya Nama: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 1999 Report Share Posted October 30, 1999 Thanks Krishna Kalale for the clarification. I know in my parents home also Sarasathi Pooja was observed, though much tempered compared to Sri Jayanthi, Adi Pooram etc. It may be because of adaptation to local environment. However, I have some doubts which I hope the monitors of the net can help me. In the latest edition of Sri Nrisimha Priya published by Sri Ahobila Mutt, in the panchagam, there is an entry for Sri Vaishnava Saraswathi Pooja. I had understood that typically only Sri Vaishnava related events are listed in the magazine. Also, are the responses to the recent discussions the actual response from our Acharya? Or is this the explanation provided by the malolan net administrators? I am anxious to hear the original response from our Acharya. If this question has not been asked, I think a request to HH Srimad Azhagiya Singar is required. Nagu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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