Sensitive Issues when querying Srimad Azhagiya Singar

[Guest guest]

Dear bhAgawatas,

 

In the past year or so we have been enjoying the

lecture series by several of our AcAryas back home.

Among the several that have been organized, the

tele-upanyAsam series by His Holiness Srimad Azhagiya

Singar (HHSAS) happens to be interactive as well.

This kind of interaction with a live AcArya on the

other side can be considered a boon for the people on

the tele-bridge all across the globe.

 

While it is good that only a few people are allowed

access to the interactive feature (to avoid clutter

and noise on the line), that should be *STRICTLY*

considered a privilege. And with every privilege

comes an important responsibility. In this case, it

is that bhAgawatas be *very careful* in querying HHSAS

on topics that are most general to the audience. Let

me take a few examples to elucidate my point.

 

1. Question to HHSAS: " What is the difference between

the Lord's swarUpam and rUpam? " This is a pretty

general question and causes no alterations in people's

lives when HHSAS gives an answer.

 

2. However, the outcome of the question " Should

vishnu sahasranAmam (VS) be recited by ladies? " *most

certainly* affects people's lives. My wife had been

reciting the VS ever since she was a kid, and had to

abruptly stop it as a result of a gratuitous question

posed to HHSAS.

 

3. Similarly, the question " Should Sri Vaishnavas go

to temples which have anya dEvatas installed? " is

extremely personal. While some lucky souls might have

a choice in this matter, many of us residing outside

India *UNFORTUNATELY DO NOT*. In the middle of Boyce,

Idaho, where Indians and Indian culture are rarities,

let alone SrIvaishnavas and SrIvaishnava temples, you

are more a beggar than a chooser. And the response

that HHSAS gives might *not* be exactly what you want

to hear.

 

My point again is that the public forum should be used

with care not to upset people's lives. It is a

privilege and a pleasure that we hear an AcArya half a

globe away. Please let those memories stay sweet.

And, for those that are really interested in AcAram

issues, may they please individually take these issues

up directly with HHSAS, not on a public forum.

 

PLEASE NOTE: I do not

a. question the sincerity of the devotee posing such

questions,

b. dispute that the questions are important,

c. point fingers at the messenger who posed the

question on someone else's behalf, nor

d. question the appropriateness of the answers

provided by HHSAS.

I just want to say that the outcome is un-called-for.

 

Please forgive me if I have offended anyone.

 

-- aDiyEn, muraLi kaDAmbi

 

 

 

 

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Dear bAgawathAs,

 

adiyEn wishes to give some answers that

occurs to adiyEN as a regular participant and

as one who also ask a question without fail in

every upanyAsam.

 

********************************************

 

>While it is good that only a few people are allowed

>access to the interactive feature (to avoid clutter

>and noise on the line), that should be *STRICTLY*

>considered a privilege.

 

********************************************************

adiyEn is not sure this is the case. At the beginning

everyone was asked everyone as to what mode they want to

join and both modes were available then. Later after an year and

a half, the modes picked up earlier stayed with those.

If one would like to come to such mode adiyEn is sure

no one will prevent them. Only thing that may be considered

is that they must conduct themselves in a very quiet

manner and avoid creating background noise etc if

someone wants to come to interactive mode.

 

Take for example one of the recent upanyAsam.

In fact when adiyEn heard that

there is not much of a breakeven (cost-wise) achieved

in an another AchAryA's upanyAsam very recently,

adiyEn suggested to the organiser

to take into confidence some of the " matured " interactive

mode prapannAs of SriMadh Azhagiya Singar's upanyAsam and

to invite them to come on the other one also to such mode

so that the cost burden is eased off from the shoulders

of organiser. So there are many angles to being in

interactive mode. The responsibility of not seeking

self esteem through such questions or making any

background noise, are probably the main ones.

There are also several other such " statutory warnings "

being mentioned to those on interactive mode, " each time "

when they get the password or code.

 

*********************************************************

 

>1. Question to HHSAS: " What is the difference between

>the Lord's swarUpam and rUpam? " This is a pretty

>general question and causes no alterations in people's

>lives when HHSAS gives an answer.

 

*********************************************************

This is an ongoing debate in bakhti and as well as

in some circles and the same is also lingering in addition

in the minds of some scholars

and it is good that people can advance their knowledge

when an oppurtunity such as this is made available by asking

HH Srimadh Azhagiya singar directly.

***************************************************

 

>2. However, the outcome of the question " Should

>vishnu sahasranAmam (VS) be recited by ladies? " *most

>certainly* affects people's lives. My wife had been

>reciting the VS ever since she was a kid, and had to

>abruptly stop it as a result of a gratuitous question

>posed to HHSAS.

 

*******************************************************

 

Say for example we have been doing

some incorrect practices without knowing for a long

time (AnAthi kAlam). When perumAL

gives us an oppurtunity to correct it, wouldn't be good ?

Is this not the time when we realise that " nedum kAlam

pizhai seytha nilai kazhinthEn.. "

 

In the same lines as dEvareer had argued (unchi vritti

etc), one can also ask that " having left all dEsika

slOkams such as Sristhuthi and others how come ardent

Srivishnanva shtrees ended up chanting Vishnu sahasranama

that their AchAryAs told them not to ? " ie.. when the

most ordained slOkas are either forgotten or not given

predomiance in their daily pArAyanam by Srivaishanva women,

how come others (VS) that are not suggested by AchAryAs

became more important ? " , one can ask.

 

In fact HH even asked " there are so many dEsikan slOkams

that are there. Why not we do chant and memorise them

first prior to thinking on these lines? " .

 

It is said that the Srivaishnava society was mixed up

with adivaitin influence

long ago. SwAmi dEsikan incarnated

and delivered so many slOkams on perumal and his

amsams that a srivaishnava can

chant and obatin all the palans and as well get peace of

mind etc by reciting those slOkas daily. It is said that

such slOkAs helped the Srivaishnava society

to get relieved from the advaitin influence. However

as per some Srivaishnava scholars, in the last 30 years are

so, these slOkams were once again kind of

ignored and sahasra naAma came to the forefront due to

predominantly smArthA influece as far as Srivaishnava

sthree are concerned. A hundred years ago adiyEN

is told that ardent Srivaishnavas were chanting

SwAmi dEsikan slOkams and AzwAr pasurams predominanlty.

 

It is a revival of that spirit now that we try to

learn more AzhwAr pasurams and our prathama AchAryAn's

(sWami dEsikan) slOkams as rightly pointed out by HH

than worrying for not chanting VS. Just because in the last

100 years are so some of these practices were influence

and changed doesnot mean that we should not revert back to

our original mandated practices in daily pArAyanam or we

must consider them difficult to adopt, especially in

pArAyanam.

 

 

By the way regarding Srivaishnava women chanting VS,

adiyEn is told that there is small difference in

the relative positions of Sri sannithi and

Sri periyasramam.

 

******************************************************

 

>3. Similarly, the question " Should Sri Vaishnavas go

>to temples which have anya dEvatas installed? " is

>extremely personal. While some lucky souls might have

>a choice in this matter, many of us residing outside

>India *UNFORTUNATELY DO NOT*. In the middle of Boyce,

>Idaho, where Indians and Indian culture are rarities,

>let alone SrIvaishnavas and SrIvaishnava temples, you

>are more a beggar than a chooser. And the response

>that HHSAS gives might *not* be exactly what you want

>to hear.

 

>My point again is that the public forum should be used

>with care not to upset people's lives.....

*************************************************

 

adiyEn is sure that dEvareer will agree with something.

ie. As a prapanna adiyOngaL need to refine our habbits

and practices and as well as our conduct whether we

like it or not. In fact adiyEn was sad that these

clarifications were not brought to adiyEn's attentions

long ago say when adiyEn was an young kid. adiyEn would

have corrected adiyEn long ago if only adiyEn had the

bAgyam of receiving this knowledge then. By closing adiyEN's

eyes can adiyEn always dream that the world is dark and that

adiyEN is always doing the right thing all along ?. No.

As per Sri nammAzwAr, It is our AchAryas who are doing

" thirutthi paNi koLvAn " in kali.

 

When there is a truth that is not known due to our own

anAdhi karmA, how long can we postpone of not knowing it ?

It is said that as per the individual karma, people come

to know of the sAstric knowledge at the right time.

dharma is something that may not be what we have been

doing all along as a " good practice " in a family or society.

But dharma is something what we learn form our AchArya

and attempt to adopt from there on, to the best of our

ability.

 

If we cannot adhere to simple principles such as these

small things (not chanting SV) how can we even dream

of doing the higher ones such as unchi vritti ?

Leave alone aiming for it, it is not even

possible to argue on such " usantha vishayam "

such as unchi vritthi, hypothetically.

 

Coming to upanyAsam, adiyEn for one, always had

attempted to ask question

" only and only " on the subject of that day's discourse.

But however adiyEn donot know how much others benefit

from adiyEn's questions. adiyEn is sure that adiyEn's

doubts are cleared and as well as our AchAryA is pleased with

that. Our AchArya is happy to hear

that shishyAs are following his discourse keenly and

are able to even ask some questions (infact sometimes tough

questions as well) and are enthusiastic about it.

Further, asking questions to AchAryA pleases him and he had

said several times in the past that He likes the Q & A

session more than the discourse itself. He repeatedly

asks if there are any questions..

 

So, Can an " act " (asking questions on doubts) that pleases

the AchAryA be considered as

something that upset people's lives or uncalled for ?

 

Ofcourse if somebody wants a personal prayer etc

those can be differed to a personal phone call.

But no one has asked anything like that to my knowledge.

 

********************************************************

Please consider adiyEn's arguments in the light of

attempting to follow one'e AchAryAs thiru uLLam to the

best we can.

 

Srimadh azhagiya singar thiruvadikaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

thiruk kudanthai Rengarajan

______________________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagawatas

 

When Arjuna was not able to fight, It's that

Supreme Lord Sri Krishna who became his Guru, and

taught the Gita, and gave him the courage, and ability

to win over the others. We live in a place called

Earth where we have to fight the Maya, Every single

Day, Fortunately we have Our Acharya as the Supreme to

guide us through the Right path, towards that Lotus

Feet of Narayana. Like it or not, Arjuna asked

zillion questions and got the answers for his

clarifications. Just as that even in any school, they

ask us to concentrate on every single question that

the other students might have, Because some of us

might have the same question and the Teacher doesn't

have to repeat the answer. At the same time, It's

nothing wrong to know the answer. The bottom line is

If one fellow's the Dharma of Prapathi, and stick with

the guidelines and follow what he/she can, then there

is no question of passing or failing in the Test. Its

just a matter of to what extent of Satisfaction one

follows the rules and regulations. Once again we all

pass provided one follows the guidelines (Dharma) of

Prapathi. The general questions that's being asked I

think is perfectly Ok, because It helps us to learn

more in life, Some may not follow today, but may be in

the Future, One day we might follow, at that time,

it's better to follow the right way, than the Wrong

way.

If Our acharya guides us not to do something, then

It's better not to do, though we might have been

following all our life, but the best thing to do is to

accept the words and guidelines of our Acharya. The

concept of my way of Worship or concept of what we

think in our minds is totally wrong, the only best way

is to follow what our Acharya says is Right. We should

subdue what we think is right, which is the very

basic requirement of surenderance towards Acharya. If

one feels that It's too personal then I guess It's

totally wrong, because, between Bhagavathas and

Acharya, there is no such thing as personal. Acharya

is Equal to everyone, He doesn't have any personal

relationship with anyone in life, except that

Mahalakshmi, and Naryana. It's us who has to follow

his footsteps to attain the mercy of our Acharya, and

the Para Brahman.

 

Once again I am just sharing my thoughts here.

 

Adiyen

Krishna.

 

some might not know, but to pass the exam it's

better to know. The

The level of Bhakti, that one has towards thier

Acharya, or towards that Lord is Immeasurable. We

just cant sit back and judge ourselves on what we

follow and what we dont. At the same time, when the

truth is being spoken, we just cant ignore it either.

 

--- Murali Kadambi <murali_kadambi wrote:

> Dear bhAgawatas,

>

> In the past year or so we have been enjoying the

> lecture series by several of our AcAryas back home.

> Among the several that have been organized, the

> tele-upanyAsam series by His Holiness Srimad

> Azhagiya

> Singar (HHSAS) happens to be interactive as well.

> This kind of interaction with a live AcArya on the

> other side can be considered a boon for the people

> on

> the tele-bridge all across the globe.

>

> While it is good that only a few people are allowed

> access to the interactive feature (to avoid clutter

> and noise on the line), that should be *STRICTLY*

> considered a privilege. And with every privilege

> comes an important responsibility. In this case, it

> is that bhAgawatas be *very careful* in querying

> HHSAS

> on topics that are most general to the audience.

> Let

> me take a few examples to elucidate my point.

>

> 1. Question to HHSAS: " What is the difference

> between

> the Lord's swarUpam and rUpam? " This is a pretty

> general question and causes no alterations in

> people's

> lives when HHSAS gives an answer.

>

> 2. However, the outcome of the question " Should

> vishnu sahasranAmam (VS) be recited by ladies? "

> *most

> certainly* affects people's lives. My wife had been

> reciting the VS ever since she was a kid, and had to

> abruptly stop it as a result of a gratuitous

> question

> posed to HHSAS.

>

> 3. Similarly, the question " Should Sri Vaishnavas go

> to temples which have anya dEvatas installed? " is

> extremely personal. While some lucky souls might

> have

> a choice in this matter, many of us residing outside

> India *UNFORTUNATELY DO NOT*. In the middle of

> Boyce,

> Idaho, where Indians and Indian culture are

> rarities,

> let alone SrIvaishnavas and SrIvaishnava temples,

> you

> are more a beggar than a chooser. And the response

> that HHSAS gives might *not* be exactly what you

> want

> to hear.

>

> My point again is that the public forum should be

> used

> with care not to upset people's lives. It is a

> privilege and a pleasure that we hear an AcArya half

> a

> globe away. Please let those memories stay sweet.

> And, for those that are really interested in AcAram

> issues, may they please individually take these

> issues

> up directly with HHSAS, not on a public forum.

>

> PLEASE NOTE: I do not

> a. question the sincerity of the devotee posing such

> questions,

> b. dispute that the questions are important,

> c. point fingers at the messenger who posed the

> question on someone else's behalf, nor

> d. question the appropriateness of the answers

> provided by HHSAS.

> I just want to say that the outcome is

> un-called-for.

>

> Please forgive me if I have offended anyone.

>

> -- aDiyEn, muraLi kaDAmbi

>

>

>

>

> Send instant messages & get email alerts with

> Messenger.

> http://im./

>

 

 

 

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|| srImate vEdAnta rAmAnuja mahA deshikAya namah ||

 

srImAn rangarAjan swAmin,

Please accept my humble namaskArams. Please read on

for my comments.

 

dEvareer wrote:

> ********************************************

> adiyEn is not sure this is the case. At the

> beginning

> everyone was asked everyone as to what mode they

> want to

> join and both modes were available then. Later after

> an year and

> a half, the modes picked up earlier stayed with

> those.

.... (portion on the logistics of the interactive mode

deleted for brevity).

 

Thank you very much for all the information on the

interactive mode, and please let aDiyEn know if I can

be of some miniscule help with regard to keeping HH's

lecture continuing perpetually. I myself am extremely

eager every week to listen to HH's upanyAsams although

I belong to a different sampradAyam. However, I was

*not* arguing about the logistics of the

tele-upanyAsam as you would have seen if you had read

my e-mail carefully.

 

dEvareer continued:

> This is an ongoing debate in bakhti and as well as

> in some circles and the same is also lingering in

> addition

> in the minds of some scholars

> and it is good that people can advance their

> knowledge

> when an oppurtunity such as this is made available

> by asking

> HH Srimadh Azhagiya singar directly.

 

Again, for this case, I never raised an eyebrow. Such

questions (IMHO) are perfectly ok to be raised in

*public*.

 

dEvareer continued:

> Say for example we have been doing

> some incorrect practices without knowing for a long

> time (AnAthi kAlam). When perumAL

> gives us an oppurtunity to correct it, wouldn't be

> good ?

> Is this not the time when we realise that " nedum

> kAlam

> pizhai seytha nilai kazhinthEn.. "

 

aDiyEn cannot argue with that. However, in a public

forum, there are people with different levels of

maturity and dealing with different circumstances and

by providing a generic mode of AcAram might not work

out ok. Each one has a different set of krtya-akaraNa

and akrtya-karaNa, and for many, it is not a case of

black and white, and do'nt. AcAram, and by that I

mean such issues that I had raised in my previous

e-mail, is an extremely personal thing. I have

personally seen great bhAgawata scholars differ in

AcAram. Again my point is that such matters should be

taken up with one's own AcArya by explaining *all* of

one's circumstances so that the AcArya is in a better

position to suggest a solution. One shoe may not fit

all sizes.

 

> (then continues as ...)

> By the way regarding Srivaishnava women chanting VS,

> adiyEn is told that there is small difference in

> the relative positions of Sri sannithi and

> Sri periyasramam.

>

 

Exactly my point, although I did not want to

specifically mention that in any of my previous

e-mails. Our AcAryas have relaxed some rules to

various extents to accommodate religion into our

lives. While I fully agree that it is one's own

responsibility to approach an AcArya in matters of

AcAram, it is again to be done in private. Taking up

such issues in public will cause unnecessary confusion

in the minds of people.

 

> .... In fact adiyEn was sad that these

> clarifications were not brought to adiyEn's

> attentions

> long ago say when adiyEn was an young kid. adiyEn

> would ...

 

May be I confused the reader in this regard with the

worship of anya dEvatas. What I actually meant to say

was that " Can Sri Vaishnavas visit temples of Sriman

nArAyaNa even though anya dEvatas are installed

there? " May be I gave the impression that Sri

Vaishnavas should have a choice in worshiping anya

dEvatas. That was *not* my point and I am sorry I was

not clear.

 

Again to clarify my point: I am not advocating one

solution or other to the problems. I am not an AcArya

to do that. What I am saying is such issues are best

raised and clarified in private for one's own set of

circumstances and inclination.

 

|| mama sarvAparAdhAn kshmasva ||

|| sarvam srI krSNArpaNamastu ||

 

-- aDiyEn, muraLi kaDAmbi

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>

> Murali Kadambi [murali_kadambi]

> Thursday, May 04, 2000 8:23 AM

>

> Re: Sensitive Issues when querying Srimad Azhagiya Singar

>

> ...... However, I was *not* arguing about the logistics

> of the tele-upanyAsam as you would have seen if you had

> read my e-mail carefully.

 

Sri Murali Kidambi Swami:

 

Perhaps Sri Sampath Rengarajan Swami was addressing

the comment you made, viz. " only a few people are

allowed access to the interactive feature " . Even

though you may not have intended, a casual reader

may have understood that only a select " privileged "

few are allowed in the interactive mode.

 

adiyEn would like to take this opportunity and clarify

to all the readers that any one who wishes to participate

in the interactive mode is welcome. We do want to limit

the number of interactive listeners to 5 or 6 for reasons

Sri Murali Kidambi Swami himself has mentioned. So far

we have been able accommodate everyone. If in the future

there are more requests than what we can reasonably

accommodate we can request one or two of the regular

interactive listeners to give up their slot. In any

case, let me emphasize again that the interactive lines

are open for anyone who is interested.

 

 

 

>

> .... However, in a public forum, there are people

> with different levels of maturity and dealing with

> different circumstances and by providing a generic

> mode of AcAram might not work out ok.

 

Please permit to clarify two issues.

 

[1] Tele-upanyasam must not be thought off

as a public forum in the sense of say a

conference or even a e-mail list that is

open to everybody. Tele-upanyasam is

like a kalaksheba goshti. No questions

about sampradayam must be out of bounds

just because the answers given may not be

to the liking of someone in the gosthi.

 

[2] Perhaps in your view visiting temples

where anyadevatha are also glorified falls

in the category of " AcAram " . But these are

not questions about some arcane Acaram.

They are about how a prapanna must conduct

oneself. They must not be dismissed as

irrelevant to all but a few who are obsessed

with shastras. They are of concern to anyone

who is interested in prapatti. This is at the

core of our being. No amount of sandhaya

vandhanam, aupasanam, etc., can protect one

from acts that may nullify one's prapatti.

 

 

> AcAram, and by that I

> mean such issues that I had raised in my previous

> e-mail, is an extremely personal thing.

 

Let us try to understand what is extremely personal.

Questions that only have relevance to one individual

are personal. For example, if one is out of a job,

or having health problems, or having family difficulties,

these are extremely personal matters. Questions like

the ones you cited in your first mail are common

to everyone. The answers benefit/affect almost all

the listeners. Therefore, these questions cannot be

considered " extremely personal " . Yes, some

individuals may not like the answers given. But

that cannot be a reason to bar these questions

about conduct.

 

 

> I have personally seen great bhAgawata scholars differ in

> AcAram. Again my point is that such matters should be

> taken up with one's own AcArya by explaining *all* of

> one's circumstances so that the AcArya is in a better

> position to suggest a solution. One shoe may not fit

> all sizes.

 

adiyEn is very much saddened by the above comment.

Given that Srimad Azhagiya Singar has answered

these questions, an unintended corollary of the

above is that our Acarya gives answers even when

HH does not fully comprehend " all of one's

circumstances " (sic).

 

srimad azhagiya singar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

 

-- adiyEn ramanuja dasan

[Guest guest]

|| srImathe vedAnta rAmAnuja maha deshikAya namah ||

 

Dear bhAgawatas,

 

Although I have already sent my concluding mail on the

topic, I am forced to respond to this e-mail.

 

> > I have personally seen great bhAgawata scholars

> > differ in AcAram. Again my point is that such

> > matters should be taken up with one's own

> > AcArya by explaining *all* of

> > one's circumstances so that the AcArya is

> > in a better position to suggest a solution.

> > One shoe may not fit all sizes.

>

> adiyEn is very much saddened by the above comment.

> Given that Srimad Azhagiya Singar has answered

> these questions, an unintended corollary of the

> above is that our Acarya gives answers even when

> HH does not fully comprehend " all of one's

> circumstances " (sic).

 

aDiyEn is even more saddened that my comments are

interpretable in such a way. Obviously dEvareer and

aDiyEn know that the " corollary " was totally

unintended. Yet, since you make explicit mention of

it, aDiyEn feels that one could have interpreted

aDiyEn's comments to mean that in the limited time one

has at his/her disposal during the tele-upanyAsam they

are not able to express their entire situation to HH,

certainly *not* that HH is not able to fully

comprehend the situation or provide an appropriate

solution. Again, I am certainly not sharp enough to

understand the nuances of expression. Anyway, aDiyEn

now realizes how many different ways one could

understand a piece of text. Please forgive my

unintended apacAram.

 

Since I have hurt a lot of sentiments and as a result

committed bhAgawata and AcArya apacAram, I sincerely

feel that I should not continue to comment on this or

any other topic for the present.

 

|| apacArAn imAn sarvAn kshmasva purushOttama ||

 

-- aDiyEn, muraLi kaDAmbi

 

 

 

 

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>

> Murali Kadambi [murali_kadambi]

> Thursday, May 04, 2000 12:58 PM

>

> RE: Sensitive Issues when querying Srimad Azhagiya Singar

>

> aDiyEn is even more saddened that my comments are

> interpretable in such a way. Obviously dEvareer and

> aDiyEn know that the " corollary " was totally

> unintended.

 

adiyEn takes full responsibility for the interpretation.

Please forgive me for hurting your feeling.

 

-- adiyEn ramanuja dasan