long time ago

[Guest guest]

" M.S.HARI (Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari) " wrote:

 

> >There seems to have been a time in the ancient days when people

> >simply followed and cherished the Veda, the Vedic values of " dharma "

> >and the Vedic way of living in a rather simple, uncomplicated way.

> >Neither Valmiki nor Vyasa nor the ordinary people were ever

> >self-conscious of any 'darsana' or " siddhAntam' that they were

> >following. There were no distinctions to make, no variations in

> >perception.... It was a very, very long time ago... It was such a

> >congenial time that God Himself chose to descend on earth to live

> >amongst mere mortals...

>

> Yes. I too believe from your words, such a time, when anya-mathams

> were not present. Only Visishtadvaita Shree Vaishnava philosophy and practice

> was present as it is the eternal parama-vaidika matham. But you have mentioned

> " It was a very, very long time ago " . What could be that

> time?

 

This goes back several thousand years (possibly) to hoary antiquity,

for which there exists little historical or inscriptional record - a period

which precedes that of our beloved AzhwArs and *most* of the

abhimAna sthaLams they sang of. Whatever Sri sampradAya existed

then would have certainly excluded AzhwArs' aruLicheyal and hence,

many portions of the present-day temple culture of Tamil country.

We often tend to (conveniently) forget that none of the vedic rishis

except sage agastya lived south of the vindhyas. Based on the

scholarly works of our poorvAchAryas, our personal conviction as

SrivaishNavas is that all our vedic rishis followed visistAdvaita - but

to claim that our entire sampradAya as it is today was the practice

of the vedic people (without any factual evidence in support of it) is

pure speculation.

 

Unfortunately our approach to such matters is just as unconvincing

at times; i.e. to simply deride anyone who doesn't share our view of

the world as non-vedic and ignorant. I wonder why we shouldn't

go so far as to tell all the madhva and sankara maThAdipatis that

they are not vedantins and that only we Srivaishnavas are. We forget

that those so-called " non-vedic " people feel the same way about us,

and even claim authenticity from the same prasthAnatraya etc. which

are so dear to us. So, will the real vedic people please stand up?

That is, after they are done with their intramutual admiration and

intersectarian squabbles.

 

-Srinath C.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Srinath:

 

namo narayana!

 

The point that Sri Visishtadvatam and Sri Vaishnavam is the

true religion of the Vedas, hence " parama-vaidika matham "

is borne out by the texts of our great lineage of Acaryas.

This is not simply a personal conviction. No doubt, others

may also claim the same level of authenticity. But the proof

is in the ability to defend such a claim. This, our AcAryAs

have done repeatedly, even as late as about 50 years ago.

Why then are other divergent views still flourishing?

That is only due to karma and Perumal's leelai.

 

 

You said:

> to claim that our entire sampradAya as it is today was the practice

> of the vedic people (without any factual evidence in support of it) is

> pure speculation.

 

Are you sure that anyone made such a speculation, i.e.

Sri Sampradayam remained an immutable mass of practices

throughout the ages? It is doubtful that anyone will

make such a claim. The claim is that Sri vaishnavam

is the religion of the Vedas.

 

Consider the practices of Sri Sannidhi, many of the

paasurams we recite now were not recited even 50 years

ago. But that does not mean Sri Sannidhi Sampradayam did

not exist 50 years ago. It has changed in some

forms of the practice, but in its essence it has

remained and will continue to remain. This is what

is meant when we say Sri Vaishnavam is the religion of

the Vedas. Yes, Azhvaras were not there during Vedic

times. That only means Sri Sampradayam that exists

eternally included Azhvar Aruliccheyalgal in this

time and place only after the time of Sriman Nathamuni.

 

We must understand that Azhvars did not invent Sri

Samprdayam. They were only instruments in the hands

of Perumal. Swami Sri Desikan clearly says that the

Azhvars were 10 new avathArams. Also, Azhvar

AruLichchyalgal are the essence of Vedas. They

certainly did not invent something new. All they did

was to extract the very nectar from the Vedas and give

it to us for easy understanding and practice. What

they did was reestablish the old Vedic practices.

 

Swami Sri Desikan further describes in Paramapada

Sobhanam that we will spend our time in Sri Vaikuntam

reciting Thiruppallandu. This goes to show that

Sri Vaishnavam is what is practiced in Sri Vaikuntam,

the kalangA perunagari where there is no perceptible

passage of time. This means Thiruppallandu always

existed and Sri vaishnavam is always practiced. Sri

Periya Azhvar simply brought it down to this yugam and

place a few thousand year ago.

 

Thus, it is not simple speculation when we say that

Sri Sampadayam is the only valid and eternal Sampradayam.

 

 

You are concerned:

> at times; i.e. to simply deride anyone who doesn't share our view of

> the world as non-vedic and ignorant. I wonder why we shouldn't

> go so far as to tell all the madhva and sankara maThAdipatis that

> they are not vedantins and that only we Srivaishnavas are.

 

 

Even from an academic POV, only one of the various

samprayams can be correct, if any. So, if we believe

our system is correct, which we surely do, then it

goes without saying that we believe the other systems

are false. Yes, the others will not accept our views,

but, surely, that is not a valid reason for us to

dilute our stand.

 

Our poorvAchAryas and present day Acaryas alike have

condemned the other views as non-vaidika and only our

Sri Vaishnava view is the correct view. They have not

simply claimed this, but have proved this using the

Vedas, Brahma Sutras, and other texts that the opposition

accepts as valid. There is no escaping this fact.

What more can be expected? Either they must accept

Sri Vasihnavam or must be prepared to be labeled

non-vaidika, no matter how exalted they may be in

the eyes of the rest of the world. We cannot be

held responsible for such labeling, it was their own

beliefs that causes such labeling.

 

 

 

You also said,

> our personal conviction as SrivaishNavas is that all

> our vedic rishis followed visistAdvaita - but

 

Again it is doubtful whether this was what was claimed.

How many Rishees followed Sri Vaishnavam or how many

rishees ever set foot south of the Vindiyas does not

matter. Surely misinterpretations of the original

intent of the Vedas have always existed, or else we

won't have a plethora of divergent religions. But

it is not correct to state that Sri Vaishnavam is

" the " Vedic religion only in our personal view, and

it is just another conviction similar to the convictions

of the followers of other religions.

 

..... So, will the real vedic people please stand up?

> That is, after they are done with their intramutual

> admiration and intersectarian squabbles.

 

 

Dear Srinath, adiyEn has no doubt that you admire

our lineage of Poorvaharyas just as much anyone

else in this net, and that you will not hesitate

to jump into a squabble with others in defense of

our sampradayam. adiyEn feels it is not a vice to

state what is right and it is not a virtue to duck

the truth.

 

with warm regards,

 

-- adiyEn ramanuja dasan

srimad azhagiya singar thiruvadigaLE saranam