Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 > > M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari [mshari] > Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:04 PM > Madhavakkannan V; mcadambi; > Cc: mshari > Re: [Re: Ekalavya and Guru-Upadesham] > [..] > .... SrI PeriyAzwAr did not have AchArya like others > for learning Veda but he too had AchArya who is PurushOththama: > SrI Lashmee Hayagreeva: himself. adiyEn would like to submit that one important point we need to recognize is that it was Perumal's will to endow Sri Periyazhvar with the knowledge of all the vedas. Sri Periyazhvar did not seek this out. Therefore, this cannot be taken as a precedent for anyone else to forsake a traditional acarya and claim to receive knowledge miraculously from Perumal or sources within. -- adiyEn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 Dear SrI MalOlan CadAmbi, Your observations on guru-Sishya paramparA are well received. I request you to kindly make a note of the following points: 1. The Sastra and the mantras & kriyAs mentioned in it MUST be learned only at the AchArya sannadhi through AchArya upadESam as per the SAstra prescriptions. Otherwise, even the Lord will not recognize the person without Guru. Without the AchArya, a person cannot attain salvation. Please refer the guru-paramparA sAram by swAmi SrIman nigamAntha mahA dESika, nyAsa vimSathi etc for more details. The SrImath Rahasya traya sAram (by swAmi SrIman nigamAntha mahA dESika) has 30st and 31st chapters exclusively discussing the importance of AchArya and the way in which a Sishya should be in our SrI SampradAya. 2. Ekalaiva etc got some sAmAnya vidyA but in vain. He had surely Guru-bhakti; but he did not adopt the proper way, which is pleasing to AchArya. He has crossed the Sastra-maryAda in attaining knowledge. He at last suffered because of adopting his own way and lost his finger - meaning - the knowledge that he got was in vain because it was not in proper way. 3. SrI MAdhavakkaNNan swAmi has replied beautifully. But I have few observations regarding his reply also. SrI VishNu chitta swAmi (SrI PeriyAzwAr) is SrI Garuda-AmSa-avathAra-purusha:. Though his thaniyan reads " guru-mukam-anadeethya… " , he too had AchArya/Guru and that AchArya is sAkshAth SrIman NArAyaNa: who gave him " mayarvara mathi nalam " - the absolute pristine knowledge about thathva-hita-purushArthas through all the Vedas. But a question arises - is not " guru-mukam-anadeethya… " negating an AchArya for SrI PeriyAzwAr? The answer is yes - this means that the extraordinary SrI Garuda-AmSa-avathAra-purusha: SrI PeriyAzwAr did not have AchArya like others for learning Veda but he too had AchArya who is PurushOththama: SrI Lashmee Hayagreeva: himself. Further he did not learn the Vedas as we do under guru for years but learnt everything in a moment through Parama-purusha-prasAdam - this is " guru-mukam-anadeethya… " . Therefore, even SrI PeriyAzwAr had an AchArya during his incarnation time to get to know the thathva-hita-purushArthas. You can note that sAkshAth nAchiyAr our thAyAr SrImathee gOdA pirAtti (ANDAL) has told that she herself surely had an AchArya (SrI PeriyAzwAr) in TiruppAvai (bhattar pirAn gOdai) as well as in nAchiyAr tirumozhi prabandams (nalla en thOzhi pAsuram). 4. There are hundreds of references in swAmi dESika's grantha-rathnams where swAmi has stressed the importance of approaching an SrI VaishNava AchArya and learning only at his divine sannadhi only through his upadESam. 5. Please refer swAmi dESika's nyAsa vimSathi for AchArya lakshaNam and Sishya lakshaNams through its beginning slokas. 6. If someone reads/studies some Veda mantra through books/internet/audio/video devices, without AchArya upadESam, then please understand that it is not the correct manner of studying it. Particularly, the SrImath Rahasya-traya-mantra-arthams must be learnt only through AchArya in traditional kAlakshEpams. Thanks & Regards M.S.HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari) P.S. Please note that I am not negating the use of books, internet, audio-video cassettes etc., but I stress that these things may be used for encouraging people and attracting their attention towards SrI SampradAya. What I stress is, Veda, SrImath Rahasya-traya-mantra etc must be learnt only through AchArya sannadhi kAlakshEpams. Otherwise, there will be no use. ====================================================================== " Madhavakkannan V " <srivaishnavan wrote: SrI: Dear Sri Malolan, Your query is thought provoking and very good. Let me think loud with you. If only had we got the AchArya bhakti of Ekalavya, then only we need to dwelve into it further. Do we have is first question? Even if it is yes, will we be able to still forego our thumb had we been " Ekalavyas " ? We (at least I) would have said " Never. You never taught me. Now you want my thumb. This is unfair completely. " That is the level of his AchArya bhakti and ours (mine.) Exceptions do not prove the rule. PeriyAzhwAr never had Guru but established the Vedic truth... Gurumukham anadhIthyam.. My two cents worth. Regards Narayana Narayana adiyEn AChAryan Thiruvadi. ----Original Message Follows---- " Malolan Cadambi " <mcadambi " Malolan Cadambi " <mcadambi " Malolan Net " , " M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari " <mshari Ekalavya and Guru-Upadesham Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:15:39 -0600 Dear Sri U.Ve.M.S.Hari, I look forward to the outline of the meaning soon. But I do have a question: Ekalavya in Maha-bharatham did not learn 'formally' as Arjuna did under Drona-charyar. But Ekalavya was well versed in Archery compared to Arjuna, even if Arjuna did learn formally under the Super Vision of Dronacharyar. Likewise, although I feel that there is no substitute for Guru-Upadesham, how would the incident of Ekalavya be interpreted? Ekalavya did not formally learn Archery under drona-charyar. He (Ekalavya) made a vigraham of Drona-charyar and practiced archery. Please consider my questions. Thanks and Regards, Adiyen Ramanuja Daasan, Malolan Cadambi " Jayatu Jayatu DevO DevakI NandanOyam " - " M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari " <mshari " Malolan Cadambi " <mcadambi; " Malolan Net " Cc: <mshari Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:09 PM Re: [Meaning of Gayathri Slokam] _______ Get your free @ address at Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya Nama: _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya Nama: __________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2001 Report Share Posted February 16, 2001 SrI: namO nArAyaNa! Dear devotees, SrI Hari has well elaborated all the essential points, followed by the crisp important note by SrI Dileepan. Additional references reg the phrase " Guru-mukham-anadhItya " in the taniyan for PeriAzhwAr : 1. SrI Abhinava DESika gives three interpretations in his " Prabandha Rakshai " commentary. 2. SrI PuriSai swAmi has written a short article on this phrase in his book " Sat-UpadESam " - Part 2. aDiyEn requests someone who has time etc at his disposal to kindly post from these references if possible.Thanks. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, anantapadmanAbhan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2001 Report Share Posted February 16, 2001 Dear Members, I *fully comprehend* the need of acharyan and more importantly acharya bhakti. However, i have a small follow up. Please forgive me for excessive use of band width. Dear Sri U.Ve.M.S.Hari, You mentioned: >Ekalaiva etc got some sAmAnya vidyA but in vain. He had surely Guru-bhakti; >but he did not adopt the proper way, which is pleasing to AchArya. He has >crossed the Sastra-maryAda in attaining knowledge. He at last suffered because >of adopting his own way and lost his finger - meaning - the knowledge that he >got was in vain because it was not in proper way. I am not quite able to understand the term sAmAnya vidya with reference to Ekalavya. In the vishnu sahasranamam it is mentioned that: vedAntagO brahmanah syAt kshatrIyO vijayE bhavet vaisyO dhanasamrddhah syAcchUdrah sukhAmavApnUyAt || If I have undertsood the meaning of the above slokam well, Studying vedanta for a brahmana is what learning archery/warfare is for a kshatriya. Does it make learning archery/warfare samAnya vidya, in view of swadharma? Like wise is learning Vedantam by brahmanas a part of their swadharma? How then would the vidyA that ekalavya " received " from Drona-charyar be counted as sAmAnya vidya? Was it not that Ekalavya was merely following his swadharma? Please note that I do not intend to negate the importance of an acharyan, more importantly acharya bhakti, which I feel Ekalavya is a good example. I wish to understand what the Swadharma of brahmanas are, in particular prappanas. Then again, please let me know if I am digress into discussions which are not important. Thanks and Regards, adiyen ramanuja daasan, Malolan Cadambi. " Jayatu Jayatu DevO Devaki NandanOyam " _______ Get your free @ address at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.