Guest guest Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 SrI: SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama: ========================= Dear SrI Malolan R Cadambi, The Brahma swarUpa nirUpaka dharmas are satyatvam, jngyAnatvam, anantatvam, amalatvam and Aanandatvam. He transcends the three guNams of prakruti namely satvam, rajas and tamas. The three guNams are guNams of prakruti (an achEtanam). The creation is expansion of mUla-prakruti and giving stUla form/name etc to jeevas. This expansion is done by brahman through his jagath-Sruthi-sankalpa. In praLayam, the tri-guNa prakruti (also called as mAya) has satva, rajas and tamas guNams in equal ratios and thus attains sUkshma avasta and is the SarIram of brahman. At that time, the mUla prakruti will not have internal differences like water, air, gold, iron, wood etc. When the Lord has Srushti sankalpam, he expands his sUkshma sarIram into stUla sarIram. The mUla prakruti undergoes changes as per SrImath VishNu's sankalpam and various differences in various portions of it in terms of its three guNams (ratios) arises and various series of tatvams (24 tatvams) like mahat, ahankAram, tanmAtrams, bhUtams, Indriyams ect arises in it and thus gets differentiated with name/form etc. The panchIkaraNam aspect is also to be understood in the context of the creation of various bhUtams. The brahman is different from his creation. The jagath and brahman are said to be one because of sAmAnAdhikaraNyam with the base of SarIra-SarIrI bhAvam known through Sruthi. The jagath (in sUkshma avasta (praLayam) and in stUla avasta(creation)) is his SarIram. He is the Aatma. Aatma is always different from SarIram. For example, ISwara's nirvikAratvam is not present in prakruti. Prakruti's vikAratvam is not present in ISwara. The ratio of guNams namely satva, rajas and tamas is different in different portions of the changed mUla-prakruti. Also, the leela vibhUti with manifold satva-rajas-tamas ratios in its various places is only having anukUla swabhAvam to ISwara, nityasUris and muktAs and it is leelOpakaraNam of ISwara and ISwara gets leela rasam in creation/pralayam etc. Thanks & Regards naidhruva mAdabhUshi S. HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari) ============================================================== Malolan R Cadambi <mcadambi wrote: Sri: Dear Members, If the brahmAn is full of Satvika Guna, how come his creation, namely the universe has Rajasa and TamO Gunam? -Regards, Malolan Cadambi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Dear bhaktas: adiyEn is just trying to see if I have understood this correctly. Sri Hari has said that... - Brahman is characterized by satya/jnana/ananta etc. and therefore is *beyond* the three guNas of prakruthi i.e. satva/rajas/tamas. - Prakruthi is achEtana and is either sookshma(atomic) or sthoola(gross) - moola prakruthi(source matter) becomes sthoola on account of brahman's jagat-srushti-sankalpam (divine will to create) - moola prakruthi is triguNa and exists as sookshma prakruthi during praLaya(deluge), at which time it is the SarIra of brahman itself in undifferentiated form. - Upon Srushti-sankalpam, brahman expands his sookshma sarIram into sthoola sarIram (physicists also state something similar!) - The manifestation of moola prakruthi into guNams/tatvams after its attaining sthoola form is also a matter of bhagavat sankalpam, and the *distribution* of these constituents is non-uniform. - The varying ratios of sthoola prakruthi's constituents (whose guNams manifest as satva/rajas/tamas) within leelA vibUthi are conducive to the *enjoyment* of Isvara, nithyas and muktas. - Isvara thus experiences the leela of srushti and praLayam. In other words, there are rAjasic/tAmasic guNams in leelA vibhUthi because Isvara has *willed* them to be there. Since leelA vibhooti is Isvara Sareeram (different from shuddha-satvam?...), its guNams are not representative of the paramAtma. Please advise of any errors in my understanding. SriRangapriya daasan -Srinath C. >M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari <mshari ><mcadambi, >Re: [Rajasa/Tamo Gunam] >Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:39:01 +0800 > >SrI: >SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama: >========================= >Dear SrI Malolan R Cadambi, > >The Brahma swarUpa nirUpaka dharmas are satyatvam, jngyAnatvam, >anantatvam, amalatvam and Aanandatvam. He transcends the >three guNams of prakruti namely satvam, rajas and tamas. >The three guNams are guNams of prakruti (an achEtanam). The creation is >expansion of mUla-prakruti and giving stUla form/name etc to jeevas. This >expansion is done by brahman through his jagath-Sruthi-sankalpa. >In praLayam, the tri-guNa prakruti (also called as mAya) has satva, rajas >and tamas guNams in equal ratios and thus attains sUkshma avasta >and is the SarIram of brahman. At that time, the mUla prakruti >will not have internal differences like water, air, gold, iron, >wood etc. When the Lord has Srushti sankalpam, he expands >his sUkshma sarIram into stUla sarIram. The mUla prakruti >undergoes changes as per SrImath VishNu's sankalpam and >various differences in various portions of it in terms of its >three guNams (ratios) arises and various series of tatvams >(24 tatvams) like mahat, ahankAram, tanmAtrams, bhUtams, Indriyams >ect arises in it and thus gets differentiated with name/form etc. The >panchIkaraNam aspect is also to be understood in the context of the >creation of various bhUtams. The brahman is different from his creation. >The jagath and brahman are said to be one because of sAmAnAdhikaraNyam >with the base of SarIra-SarIrI bhAvam known through Sruthi. >The jagath (in sUkshma avasta (praLayam) and in stUla avasta(creation)) >is his SarIram. He is the Aatma. Aatma is always different from SarIram. >For example, ISwara's nirvikAratvam is not present in prakruti. >Prakruti's vikAratvam is not present in ISwara. >The ratio of guNams namely satva, rajas and tamas is different >in different portions of the changed mUla-prakruti. Also, the >leela vibhUti with manifold satva-rajas-tamas ratios in its various >places is only having anukUla swabhAvam to ISwara, nityasUris and >muktAs and it is leelOpakaraNam of ISwara and ISwara gets >leela rasam in creation/pralayam etc. > >Thanks & Regards >naidhruva mAdabhUshi S. HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari) >============================================================== >Malolan R Cadambi <mcadambi wrote: >Sri: > >Dear Members, > >If the brahmAn is full of Satvika Guna, how come his creation, namely >the universe has Rajasa and TamO Gunam? > >-Regards, > >Malolan Cadambi _______________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 SrI: SrImatE rAmAnujAya namaH namO nArAyaNa! > Dear bhaktas: adiyEn is just trying to see if I have understood > this correctly. Sri Hari has said that... Dear SrI SrInath, > Please advise of any errors in my understanding. Yes...there are few things reg the sookshma and sthUla states of prakRuti. > - Brahman is characterized by satya/jnana/ananta etc. and therefore > is *beyond* the three guNas of prakruthi i.e. satva/rajas/tamas. Specifically, the fifth quality in the svarUpa-niRupa dharmas list is amalatvam => Pristinely pure => Not contaminated by the guNas of prakRuti viz.satva,rajas and tamas. > - Prakruthi is achEtana and is either sookshma(atomic) or sthoola(gross) sUkshma state does not correspond to " atomic " state. PrakRuti in its original state just before creation is known as " mUla PrakRuti " . It has no differentiation into parts. For example, our body can be differentiated into many parts like eyes, nose etc. But, prakRuti in its state as mUla-prakRuti can't be distinguished into parts - everywhere it looks the same. This property is also present for ParamAtman and jIvAtman (ie.aatma-svarUpa). MUla-prakRuti does not constitute any " atoms " (aNu, in SAstric terminology; Its also different from the atom of modern science in definition) in its svarUpa - It is devoid of aNus just like how paramAtman in its svarUpa is devoid of aNus. Only during creation, aNus are formed which are specific states/modifications of the original material ie. mUla-prakRuti. > - moola prakruthi(source matter) becomes sthoola on account of brahman's > jagat-srushti-sankalpam (divine will to create) > > - moola prakruthi is triguNa and exists as sookshma prakruthi during > praLaya(deluge), at which time it is the SarIra of brahman itself in > undifferentiated form. undifferentiated => No aNus are possible, since differentiation of various parts as " aNu 1 " , aNu 2 " etc is possible. undifferentiated in the sense of nirviSEsha is used during translations - It is not intented here by you as it is evident. viSEshanas ie. attributes like thriguNas do exist for mUla-prakRuti. > - Upon Srushti-sankalpam, brahman expands his sookshma sarIram into > sthoola sarIram (physicists also state something similar!) Though SrI Hari SwAmi has mentioned about creation as expansion couple of times, probably he does not mean growth from small to big ... Generally, many conceive creation as " expansion " of mUla prakRuti in its sUkshma state to sthUla state, taking sUkshma to mean " small " and sthUla to be big. But, if we investigate with scrutiny, it is not so. Before creation, mUla-prakRuti is all-pervading like paramAtman in the material universe ie. leelA vibhUti. There is no place in the leelA vibhUti (top Or bottom Or any direction you think off) wherein you can show the absence of mUla-prakRuti. Hence, there is no " expansion " possible since it is already there everywhere. What happens is " only " modification of sates (avasthAs) and not " expansion " . sUkshma does not mean " small " always. It also carries meaning like " invisible " (though " big " ). For instance, a mukta in arcirAdi mArgam has sUkshma SarIra and is said to have various receptions. Here, the SUkshma-SarIra talked about is that which is " invisible " (in general , because of its subtleness) but is big enough to move with others etc. sUkshma state of prakRuti is mUla-prakRuti itself, which is subtle because of its indistinguishability into various parts and ofcourse not visible in general. > - The manifestation of moola prakruthi into guNams/tatvams after its > attaining sthoola form is also a matter of bhagavat sankalpam, and > the *distribution* of these constituents is non-uniform. > > - The varying ratios of sthoola prakruthi's constituents (whose > guNams manifest as satva/rajas/tamas) within leelA vibUthi are > conducive to the *enjoyment* of Isvara, nithyas and muktas. Whether in the state of mUla-prakRuti Or in sthUla state, they do not affect those in SrI-VaikuNTham. leelA rasam has some indepth meaning - which aDiyEn will post sometime later. > - Isvara thus experiences the leela of srushti and praLayam. > > In other words, there are rAjasic/tAmasic guNams in leelA vibhUthi > because Isvara has *willed* them to be there. Since leelA vibhooti > is Isvara Sareeram (different from shuddha-satvam?...), its guNams > are not representative of the paramAtma. But, jIvAtmans also are above the three guNas in this sense, in their svarUpa. But, are influenced by them when they are baddhas. The striking point is that, ParamAtman is not influenced by them - rather they are under His influence and hence paramAtman is said to be transcendental to these things. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, Anand. > > Please advise of any errors in my understanding. > > SriRangapriya daasan > -Srinath C. > > >M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari <mshari > ><mcadambi, > >Re: [Rajasa/Tamo Gunam] > >Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:39:01 +0800 > > > >SrI: > >SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama: > >========================= > >Dear SrI Malolan R Cadambi, > > > >The Brahma swarUpa nirUpaka dharmas are satyatvam, jngyAnatvam, > >anantatvam, amalatvam and Aanandatvam. He transcends the > >three guNams of prakruti namely satvam, rajas and tamas. > >The three guNams are guNams of prakruti (an achEtanam). The creation is > >expansion of mUla-prakruti and giving stUla form/name etc to jeevas. This > >expansion is done by brahman through his jagath-Sruthi-sankalpa. > >In praLayam, the tri-guNa prakruti (also called as mAya) has satva, rajas > >and tamas guNams in equal ratios and thus attains sUkshma avasta > >and is the SarIram of brahman. At that time, the mUla prakruti > >will not have internal differences like water, air, gold, iron, > >wood etc. When the Lord has Srushti sankalpam, he expands > >his sUkshma sarIram into stUla sarIram. The mUla prakruti > >undergoes changes as per SrImath VishNu's sankalpam and > >various differences in various portions of it in terms of its > >three guNams (ratios) arises and various series of tatvams > >(24 tatvams) like mahat, ahankAram, tanmAtrams, bhUtams, Indriyams > >ect arises in it and thus gets differentiated with name/form etc. The > >panchIkaraNam aspect is also to be understood in the context of the > >creation of various bhUtams. The brahman is different from his creation. > >The jagath and brahman are said to be one because of sAmAnAdhikaraNyam > >with the base of SarIra-SarIrI bhAvam known through Sruthi. > >The jagath (in sUkshma avasta (praLayam) and in stUla avasta(creation)) > >is his SarIram. He is the Aatma. Aatma is always different from SarIram. > >For example, ISwara's nirvikAratvam is not present in prakruti. > >Prakruti's vikAratvam is not present in ISwara. > >The ratio of guNams namely satva, rajas and tamas is different > >in different portions of the changed mUla-prakruti. Also, the > >leela vibhUti with manifold satva-rajas-tamas ratios in its various > >places is only having anukUla swabhAvam to ISwara, nityasUris and > >muktAs and it is leelOpakaraNam of ISwara and ISwara gets > >leela rasam in creation/pralayam etc. > > > >Thanks & Regards > >naidhruva mAdabhUshi S. HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari) > >============================================================== > >Malolan R Cadambi <mcadambi wrote: > >Sri: > > > >Dear Members, > > > >If the brahmAn is full of Satvika Guna, how come his creation, namely > >the universe has Rajasa and TamO Gunam? > > > >-Regards, > > > >Malolan Cadambi > > _______________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka > Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya Nama: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 SrI: SrI BhOMi nELA samaetha SrI lakshmi nrusimha parabramaneya namahA viSEshanas ie. attributes like thriguNas > do exist for mUla-prakRuti. ----------%%----> yes.... in/of what proportions?? Are they constituents or charectrestic?.. what is meant by the statement " attributes *LIKE* thriguNas do exist for Mula-prakruti " ..?? please make note of the word " LIKE " does moola prakruthi have any more attributes?? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Since leelA vibhooti is Isvara Sareeram (different from > shuddha-satvam?...), its guNams are not representative of the > paramAtma. But, jIvAtmans also are above the three guNas in this sense, in their svarUpa. But, are influenced by them when they are baddhas. The striking point is that, ParamAtman is not influenced by them - rather they are under His influence and hence paramAtman is said to be transcendental to these things. -----------------%%---> There is a point to be noted here for which the following are to be borne in mind.. Let us analyze the meaning of the term sarEram first... a comprehensive (all inclusive) defination of the term sarEram as defined by bAshyakArA is as follows " Any substance which a sentient self can completely control and support for its own purposes and which stands to the self in an entirely dependent relation is called it sarEram " We hear that Iswaran has a SarEram.... and eveything is Iswarans sarEram. There is a very fine difference between the physical body as a sarEram and physical universe as a saReram. Now let us also bear some thing more in mind From pramAnas we conclude and hence understand that Bramhan is savisEsha,(ie) that bramhan has savrUpa, rupa (vigraha) guna and vibhOthi. That is when we say that is Bramhan is always conceived as savisEsha it means it also possess a bodily form (vigrahA) and is qualified by attributes (gunas) and the the properties (vibhOthis) which comprise both Nv and LV realm as well of chethnAs and achethanAs. Now you must be able to see thus rupa and viBhothi are essentialy different. They both are sarEram for bramhan because of Adhara-Adheya bhAvam(the sustainer and sustained) nitantA and niyAmya bhAvam (the controller and controlled) and sesa-sesi bhAvam (the self -subsistent and dependent). So what can we say about the vigraha of iswarA?? The vigrahA or the bodily form of IsvarA is sudha-satvam. This body(vigraha) of Isvara is nithyA and not caused by any external element but is of a natural form.It is transcedental.It is not subject to change or mutation. It is also sarEram based on the all inclusive defination given above. By such definationad explanations it is evident that vibOthi is different from vigrahA.. They are different aspects of Bramhan. Hence we are trying to compare oranges and apples though they are essentially fruits (for rough analogy only). That is to say that satvam we talk about here wrt prakruthi is different from the " sudha-satvam " we talk about wrt NV and Iswaras vigraham and they cannot be compared. regards venkatrAghava dhAsan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2002 Report Share Posted November 15, 2002 Sri: SrimatE rAmAnujAya nama: Dear Sri Anan swAmin, AdiyEn has a question regading existance of mUla-prakruthi. You wrote: > > Before creation, mUla-prakRuti is all-pervading like paramAtman > in the material universe ie. leelA vibhUti. There is no place in > the leelA vibhUti (top Or bottom Or any direction you think off) > wherein you can show the absence of mUla-prakRuti. Hence, > there is no " expansion " possible since it is already there > everywhere. What happens is " only " modification of sates > (avasthAs) and not " expansion " . > If mUla-prakruthi is present everywhere before srusti, what does Lord has in his stomach reclining on banya leave floating on the water. Doesn't Lord have everything including jeevathmAs and prakruthi in His stomach?. When AzhwArs says, " Ulagamunda peruvAyan " , what does He actually consume?. Everything excluding prakruthi?. Please enligten adiyEn. Thanks adiyEn rAmasAmy rAmAnuja dAsan , Anand K Karalapakkam <kgk@m...> wrote: > SrI: > SrImatE rAmAnujAya namaH > > namO nArAyaNa! > > > Dear bhaktas: adiyEn is just trying to see if I have understood > > this correctly. Sri Hari has said that... > > Dear SrI SrInath, > > > Please advise of any errors in my understanding. > > Yes...there are few things reg the sookshma and sthUla states > of prakRuti. > > > - Brahman is characterized by satya/jnana/ananta etc. and therefore > > is *beyond* the three guNas of prakruthi i.e. satva/rajas/tamas. > > Specifically, the fifth quality in the svarUpa-niRupa dharmas list > is amalatvam => Pristinely pure => Not contaminated by the > guNas of prakRuti viz.satva,rajas and tamas. > > > - Prakruthi is achEtana and is either sookshma(atomic) or sthoola (gross) > > sUkshma state does not correspond to " atomic " state. > > PrakRuti in its original state just before creation > is known as " mUla PrakRuti " . It has no > differentiation into parts. For example, our body can > be differentiated into many parts like eyes, nose etc. > But, prakRuti in its state as mUla-prakRuti can't > be distinguished into parts - everywhere it looks > the same. This property is also present for ParamAtman > and jIvAtman (ie.aatma-svarUpa). > > MUla-prakRuti does not constitute any " atoms " (aNu, > in SAstric terminology; Its also different from the atom of > modern science in definition) in its svarUpa - It is devoid of > aNus just like how paramAtman in its svarUpa is devoid of > aNus. Only during creation, aNus are formed which are > specific states/modifications of the original material ie. > mUla-prakRuti. > > > > - moola prakruthi(source matter) becomes sthoola on account of brahman's > > jagat-srushti-sankalpam (divine will to create) > > > > - moola prakruthi is triguNa and exists as sookshma prakruthi during > > praLaya(deluge), at which time it is the SarIra of brahman itself in > > undifferentiated form. > > undifferentiated => No aNus are possible, since differentiation > of various parts as " aNu 1 " , aNu 2 " etc is possible. > > undifferentiated in the sense of nirviSEsha is used > during translations - It is not intented here by you > as it is evident. viSEshanas ie. attributes like thriguNas > do exist for mUla-prakRuti. > > > - Upon Srushti-sankalpam, brahman expands his sookshma sarIram into > > sthoola sarIram (physicists also state something similar!) > > Though SrI Hari SwAmi has mentioned about creation as expansion > couple of times, probably he does not mean growth from small > to big ... > > Generally, many conceive creation as " expansion " of mUla > prakRuti in its sUkshma state to sthUla state, taking sUkshma > to mean " small " and sthUla to be big. But, if we investigate with > scrutiny, it is not so. > > Before creation, mUla-prakRuti is all-pervading like paramAtman > in the material universe ie. leelA vibhUti. There is no place in > the leelA vibhUti (top Or bottom Or any direction you think off) > wherein you can show the absence of mUla-prakRuti. Hence, > there is no " expansion " possible since it is already there > everywhere. What happens is " only " modification of sates > (avasthAs) and not " expansion " . > > sUkshma does not mean " small " always. It also carries > meaning like " invisible " (though " big " ). For instance, > a mukta in arcirAdi mArgam has sUkshma SarIra > and is said to have various receptions. Here, the > SUkshma-SarIra talked about is that which is > " invisible " (in general , because of its subtleness) > but is big enough to move with others etc. > > sUkshma state of prakRuti is mUla-prakRuti > itself, which is subtle because of its indistinguishability > into various parts and ofcourse not visible in general. > > > - The manifestation of moola prakruthi into guNams/tatvams after its > > attaining sthoola form is also a matter of bhagavat sankalpam, and > > the *distribution* of these constituents is non-uniform. > > > > - The varying ratios of sthoola prakruthi's constituents (whose > > guNams manifest as satva/rajas/tamas) within leelA vibUthi are > > conducive to the *enjoyment* of Isvara, nithyas and muktas. > > Whether in the state of mUla-prakRuti Or in sthUla > state, they do not affect those in SrI-VaikuNTham. > > leelA rasam has some indepth meaning - which aDiyEn > will post sometime later. > > > - Isvara thus experiences the leela of srushti and praLayam. > > > > In other words, there are rAjasic/tAmasic guNams in leelA vibhUthi > > because Isvara has *willed* them to be there. Since leelA vibhooti > > is Isvara Sareeram (different from shuddha-satvam?...), its guNams > > are not representative of the paramAtma. > > But, jIvAtmans also are above the three guNas in this > sense, in their svarUpa. But, are influenced by them when > they are baddhas. The striking point is that, ParamAtman is > not influenced by them - rather they are under His influence > and hence paramAtman is said to be transcendental to these > things. > > aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, > Anand. > > > > > Please advise of any errors in my understanding. > > > > SriRangapriya daasan > > -Srinath C. > > > > >M.S.HARI Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari <mshari@u...> > > ><mcadambi>, > > >Re: [Rajasa/Tamo Gunam] > > >Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:39:01 +0800 > > > > > >SrI: > > >SrImathE rAmAnujAya nama: > > >========================= > > >Dear SrI Malolan R Cadambi, > > > > > >The Brahma swarUpa nirUpaka dharmas are satyatvam, jngyAnatvam, > > >anantatvam, amalatvam and Aanandatvam. He transcends the > > >three guNams of prakruti namely satvam, rajas and tamas. > > >The three guNams are guNams of prakruti (an achEtanam). The creation is > > >expansion of mUla-prakruti and giving stUla form/name etc to jeevas. This > > >expansion is done by brahman through his jagath-Sruthi-sankalpa. > > >In praLayam, the tri-guNa prakruti (also called as mAya) has satva, rajas > > >and tamas guNams in equal ratios and thus attains sUkshma avasta > > >and is the SarIram of brahman. At that time, the mUla prakruti > > >will not have internal differences like water, air, gold, iron, > > >wood etc. When the Lord has Srushti sankalpam, he expands > > >his sUkshma sarIram into stUla sarIram. The mUla prakruti > > >undergoes changes as per SrImath VishNu's sankalpam and > > >various differences in various portions of it in terms of its > > >three guNams (ratios) arises and various series of tatvams > > >(24 tatvams) like mahat, ahankAram, tanmAtrams, bhUtams, Indriyams > > >ect arises in it and thus gets differentiated with name/form etc. The > > >panchIkaraNam aspect is also to be understood in the context of the > > >creation of various bhUtams. The brahman is different from his creation. > > >The jagath and brahman are said to be one because of sAmAnAdhikaraNyam > > >with the base of SarIra-SarIrI bhAvam known through Sruthi. > > >The jagath (in sUkshma avasta (praLayam) and in stUla avasta (creation)) > > >is his SarIram. He is the Aatma. Aatma is always different from SarIram. > > >For example, ISwara's nirvikAratvam is not present in prakruti. > > >Prakruti's vikAratvam is not present in ISwara. > > >The ratio of guNams namely satva, rajas and tamas is different > > >in different portions of the changed mUla-prakruti. Also, the > > >leela vibhUti with manifold satva-rajas-tamas ratios in its various > > >places is only having anukUla swabhAvam to ISwara, nityasUris and > > >muktAs and it is leelOpakaraNam of ISwara and ISwara gets > > >leela rasam in creation/pralayam etc. > > > > > >Thanks & Regards > > >naidhruva mAdabhUshi S. HARI rAmAnuja dAsan (mshari@u...) > > >============================================================== > > >Malolan R Cadambi <mcadambi> wrote: > > >Sri: > > > > > >Dear Members, > > > > > >If the brahmAn is full of Satvika Guna, how come his creation, namely > > >the universe has Rajasa and TamO Gunam? > > > > > >-Regards, > > > > > >Malolan Cadambi > > > > _______________ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > Srimate Sri Laksminrisimha Divya Paduka Sevaka > > Srivan Satakopa Sri Narayana Yatindra Mahadesikaya Nama: > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2002 Report Share Posted November 16, 2002 > SrI: > > SrI BhOMi nELA samaetha SrI lakshmi nrusimha parabramaneya namahA > > viSEshanas ie. attributes like thriguNas > > do exist for mUla-prakRuti. > > ----------%%----> > > yes.... in/of what proportions?? Are they constituents or charectrestic?.. Just before creation, mUla-prakRuti has all the three guNas in equilibrium / equal proportions. During creations, they are changed appropriately as desired by BhagavAn for various modifications of prakRuti. The three guNas are characteristics of mUla-prakRuti. According to SA~nkya philosophy, mUla-PrakRuti (which they call as PradhAna usually) has the constituents Satva,Rajas and Tamas. In otherwords, according to them, these three together form PrakRuti. But we don't agree with it. These three are only characteristics (guNas) of prakRuti. > what is meant by the statement " attributes *LIKE* thriguNas do exist > for Mula-prakruti " ..?? please make note of the word " LIKE " > does moola prakruthi have any more attributes?? The context was on the usage of the word " nirviSEsha " . It was mentioned by me in the context that, prakRuti has various attributes (viSEshanas). A tattva always has attributes. These attributes can be categorized into two in general - like how the NyAya SAstr does. One is " guNa " and the other is " dharma " . guNa can be translated as characteristic. dharma can be translated as attribute itself. Still, guNa is also an attribute - one can't deny it. Ex: For the Pot, the two halves known as kapAla is the cause (ie.material cause). In other words, when two halves, known as kapAlas are joined together, a pot is formed. Each kapAla then has the dharma (attribute) called " kAraNatA " Or " kAraNatvam " [ie.attribute of being the cause]. The resulting Pot has the dharma (attribute) kAryatA ie. attribute of being the effect. Examples related to " Pot " (ghaTa) is ubiquitous in SAstra granthas ; Hence stating something related with Pot for this context too :-). Like this, we can think about lots of dharmas (attributes) in a Pot - dravyatva, pRuthivithva, vishayatA (one being the object of jn~Ana) etc. Similarly, prakRuti also has many attributes - which results in avidya for a baddha jIvAtman, which curtails the divyAtma-svarUpa of paramAtman to a baddha jIvAtman etc apart from other dharmas like dravyatva. It has three guNas. Hope this is clear. This is aDiyEn's last mail on this issue ....need to catch up with other things ... rAmAnuja dAsan, Anand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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