Are there any Svargam and Naragam?

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At 10:11 AM 7/2/02 -0700, you wrote:

 

SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA

 

Dear BhakthAs:

 

Srimathi Jayashree Saranathan's (JS)response to SrIman

VaradarAjan and SrIkrishna TatachAr is brilliant

and balanced. The discussion is kacchitham and the insights

given by SrImathi JS (Brahma SoothrAs 3.1.7 to 3.1.27)

are the most appropriate ones about the " waking state of

the soul , its transmigration to different spheres and

return to this world and its consequent sufferings in

the state of bondage (as Bhaddha Jeevan) " .

 

For the benfit of the readers of sister lists ,

I will copy the original note of SrImathi JS for

reference .I am sure that she would not mind

the sharing of the valuable information housed in her

note. This subject is surely of wide interest .

 

After discussing the soul's imperfections ,

the Brahma soothrAs focus on the ananatha kalyANa

GuNams of the Lord free from all imperfections

as Supreme Brahman and discuss ways to meditate

on Him.The Brahma SoothrAs establish that Brahaman is

the grantor of the fruits of all actions ( Phalamatha

upapatthE: BS-3.2.37).After discussion on meditation

in the third chapter, the final chapter of the SoothrAs

focuses on the fruits of Meditation : Brahman ,

the UpEyam . The final & Fourth chapter deals with the ways

in which the soul leaves the body and the last two sections

of this chapter (4.3 and 4.4) describe the travel of

the liberated soul by the archirAdhi maargam , honors

recieved from aadhivAhikAs and the Muktha jeevan manifesting

itself in its true nature enjoying ParipoorNa BrahmAnanadham

at the Supreme abode and never returning to the Karma BhUmi .

Swamy NammAzhwAr (Vedam Tamizh seytha MaaRan) has

housed the descriptions on the ascent of the soul via

archirAdhi maargam and arrival at Sri Vaikuntam in

the last two decads of ThiruvAimozhi.

 

The subject matter of this thread is vast and will need

the insight from the discourses by our revered AchAryAs ,

who have spent their life time understanding these difficult

concepts backed up by PramANAs from Sruthi , Smruthi

and upabrhmaNams.To facilitate additional discussions ,

I will content myself with a brief discussion on two points

mentioned by SrImathi JS:

 

FIRST POINT: SVARGAM AND VEDIC REFERENCES:

******************************************

(1)Svargam and Vedams: Upanishadic and Brahma Soothra

references of Sage VyAsa have been touched upon already

by her (Smt JS) and SrI Mani VaradarAjan. Let me cite

a few Vedic references about Svarga Lokam that precede

the Upanishads .The place of Svargam in the hierarchy of

worlds and the experience there are described by

these manthrAs.

 

A. Yajur vedam XVII.67 (pruTivyAa--svarjYothiragAmaham):

Vedam refers to Svar LOkam as the World of " Supra-Sun " .

Svargam and Soorya derive their meanings from the same root.

This is a world , a realm ,whhich is beyond the familiar

rhOdasI ( Heaven and earth ). This is beyond PruthvI ,

anthariksham ( the interspace over which our atmposphere

extends) and the celestail space ( dyauh )beyond anthariksham ;

this vast space is constituted by galaxies and stars

including Dhruva maNdalam .The Svar Lokam attained due to

the accumulated Punya KarmAs by the jeevans is beyond

this Dyauh lOkam . Svar lOkam is a world , a realm with

Indran as the presiding deity (Svarpathi)of this supraheavenly

realm. AzhwArs consider PuNyam and Paapam as the Golden

and Iron handcuffs and do not wish to be associated

with them and seek Mukthi , a state , where one is

free from both kinds of karmAs. Svar lOkam is also

referred to as " Uru lOkam " :

 

URUM nO lOkamnu nEshi vidvAn SVARVAJ jyOtir abhayam svasthi

rishvA ta INDRA sthavirasya bAhu upa sTEyAma saraNA bruhantha

 

--Rg Vedam : VI.47.8

 

Meaning: Thou with Your knowledge blesses us on to

the wide word, even Svar , the light , which is

freedom from fear , with happy state of existence .

 

Other selected passages relating to Svargam in

the ancient Rg Vedam are housed in the following

manthrams :

 

RV.VI.72.1 , RV.IV.16.4, RV. VII.99/3, VII.99.4

 

gnanthO Vrutraataran rhOdasI apa URUKSHAYAAYA-chakrirE

bhUvath kaNvE vrushAdhyumanyAhutha: krandadasvO gavishtushu

 

--RV: I.36.8

 

Meaning: Jeevans slaying the coverer (Vrutran )

have now travelled beyond both earth and heaven

and made the wide , bright world, Svargam, their

(temporary) world of residence.

 

There are many other passages referring to Svargam

as a world of radiance and enjoyment . After their

puNyAs , which got them there in the first place,

get exhausted the jeevans return with their residual

karmAs back to earth. The Prapanna Jeevan however

does not get here(Svarga) , but takes the DevayAna route

to SrI Vaikuntam and never returns to the karma BhUmi

(anAvrutthi sabdhAth, anAvrutthi sabdhAth)).

 

>All descriptions about svarg and narag are found in

>later-born purans and stories. Any evidence to the contrary

>from the readers is most welcome)---(SrImathi JS)

 

SECOND POINT: PURAANAMS AND SVARGAM:

************************************

2) Among all purANams , VishNu PurANam composed by

Sage Paraasara hs been celebrated as PurANa Rathnam

by Sawmy AlavanthAr. It is more ancient than all

other PurANams since it is authored by none other than

the Father of Sage VyAsa and the grandson of Sage Vasishta .

The passages from this PurANam has been taken up as

PramANam by AchArya RaamAnujA in His Sri BhAshyam .

This PurANam is not a " later-born purAnam " and

indeed can be considered as first-born purAnam

originating from a period coeval to some of

the Upanishads . This PurANam has six chapters (amsams)

and many sections (adhyAyams) in each of the chapters.

Brilliant insights are given about the naraka lOkams ,

the tratemnts there proportionate to the accumulated

paapams and PrAyasccitthams and the migration of the soul

after narakam . The third amsam ,seventh adhyAyam deals

at length with ViashNava prabhAvam (who is a Vaishnavan ?

What are his glories ? how does Yanma dharma raajan treats

them etc., These two sections from VishNu PurANam of

Swamy Parasara Bhagavaan are very pertinent to

the ongoing discussions .

 

A Study of VishNu PurAnam and its commentary (VishNu

ChitthIyam ) by EngaLAzhwAn , the disciple of AchArya

RaamAnujA would be most valuable to understand these

concepts dear to VisitAdhvaithins. HH SrImath Azhagiya

Singar ( the Current PeetAdhipathi) has written a beautiful

commentary on SrI VishNu PurANam in 1996 .

 

SrImath Azhagiya Singar ThiruvadigaLE SaraNam ,

RaamAnuja Daasan Oppiliappan Koil VaradAchAri SadagOpan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>EdumE eniya swargaththil, ennam naragil ettu

>ChudumE avattrai taru thollai suzhal pirappil

>nadumE eni nam Ramanujan nammai nam vasaThE

>vidumE sharanam.... (Ramanuja Noottrandhadhi)

>

>jayasree sarnathan.

>

>[ svarga and naraka do indeed exist, according to all Vedantins

> including Ramanuja. Please see Brahma Sutra 3.1.15: " Moreover

> there are seven (hells). " /api ca saptaH/. The numbering of

> the sutra may differ from commentator to commentator.

> -- Moderator ]