Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Pranam, This is my first post to the list. Dr. Radhakrishnan, in his book Indian Philosophy, Volume II, makes this curious statement about Acarya Ramanuja: " Out of deference to tradition he concedes that freedom is open only to the three upper classes, and others will have to work their way up and wait for the next birth. " (p. 709) 1. Is this a correct reading? If so can someone please point to the section of the Sri Bhasya where he said this? 2. If it is true how does it reconcile with the worship of the Alwars, some of whom were Sudras? Thanking all of the learned members in advance! Vikram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Dear Sri Vikram, Thank you for raising this very important issue. As I have not been blessed to learn the nuances of Sri Bhashyam as of yet, I am unqualifed to quote chapter and verse from it to defend or disprove Sri Radhakrishnan's observations. However, from what I have learned, the seeming contradiction in Sri Ramanuja's defending the caste system and then seemingly rejecting it in his adoration of the Azhvars really can be resolved when seen in light of the two different paths that are afforded to us by the Vedas. The first of these paths is the one in which we adopt a conscious effort to realize God through what is prescribed in the Vedas. This approach involves the practice of proper action, devotion as a formal discipline of worship and piety, and the seeking of knowledge through contemplation and scholarly learning, along with a number of associated personal disciplines and practices. All of these are geared to encourage the seeker to move away from attachment with this world towards a path that leads one to emancipation and God-realization. Needless to say, such a path requires rather stringent qualifications on the part of the individual in order for one to pursue it properly, and thus, as the Vedas have suggested, remains limited to only a small fraction of the society who would have both the intellectual insight and the tenacity to follow it, namely, the male members of what is popularly known as the " upper three castes " . However, we must keep in mind that this is only one of two paths that our incomparable Sri Ramanuja Darshanam provides to us. The other path, the path of self-surrender, prapatti, is, according to Sri Ramanuja and those who follow him, something that is also provided in the Vedas, but in a somewhat indirect way. However, its fullness and all-inclusive nature has been revealed in all it lucid clarity by those who have experienced it directly, the Azhvars, who have shared it with us in a vernacular language, Tamil, such that it could be experienced and chanted by all. Such an approach really has no other qualification other than a willingness to wholeheartedly accept and place oneself in the care of Sriman Narayana's Unconditional and Boundless Love, seeing Him alone as the means to Himself. Since God, and not the individual, serves as the way to this means, it becomes available to each and every person, irrespective of race, caste, creed or gender. And interestingly, Sri Ramanuja plays the central role as being the central link in the unbroken chain of Acharyas who have propogated and become the intercessors in this unique approach to the Divine. But, while it would seem that there is a contradiction here, there really isn't one. Because from the standpoint of the prapanna, the one who has surrendered, adherence to caste and the obligations that are part of it, is really just another means to expressing love for the Lord, since the Vedas in their True Nature are really pointing us towards Him, and consequently, can be used to adore Him. Consequently, we are bound to caste only as an obligation of the body and only for the purposes of serving the Lord and His Creation. From the standpoint of our hearts, all those who have turned towards Him as the Means really are equal, as they are all qualified to connect to Him through the mercy of Sri Ramanuja and the message of the Azhvars. I hope this helps. adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Mohan - <vikrammasson Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:01 PM A Question about Ramanuja > Pranam, > > > This is my first post to the list. > > Dr. Radhakrishnan, in his book Indian Philosophy, Volume II, makes > this curious statement about Acarya Ramanuja: > > " Out of deference to tradition he concedes that freedom is open only > to the three upper classes, and others will have to work their way up > and wait for the next birth. " > (p. 709) > > 1. Is this a correct reading? If so can someone please point to the > section of the Sri Bhasya where he said this? > > 2. If it is true how does it reconcile with the worship of the > Alwars, some of whom were Sudras? > > > Thanking all of the learned members in advance! > > > Vikram > ----------------- > > > srirangarAja charaNAmbhuja rAja hamsam > srimad parAnkusa padhAmbhuja brungarAjam| > sri bhattanAtha parakAla mukhAbhja mitram > srivatsachihnna saranam yathirAjameedE|| > > I pay homage to Sri Ramanuja, the swan who has chosen the Lotus Feet of Sri Ranganatha as his refuge; > who is collecting the pollen and nectar from the flower-like feet of Parankusa (NammAzhwAr); > who brightens like the sun the faces of Bhattanatha (PeriAzhwAr) and Parakala (Thirumangai AzhwAr), and > who is the refuge of Kuresa! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Namaskaaram, Sri Mohan Sagar: Thank you for a detailed, heart-warming reply! Since I posted this, I have been doing some research of my own. It seems a white scholar, Lipner, also upholds the view that sudras will have to wait additional lifetimes to get moksham. Vedic knowledge is an ABSOLUTE prerequiste to moksam in Sri Bhasya, the Puranas and Itihaas are not enough, and sudras by caste are categorically debarred from the Vedic knowledge. He makes an exception for Vidura BUT the exception is based on previous Samskaras! Also, prapatti was a concept developed fully by later Vaishnavas--not Acarya Ramanuja himself. His Gita exegesis states nowhere that sudras can get moksham in this lifetime. The way out of it is (perhaps) to look at the liberality and love that acarya Ramanuja displayed in his own lifetime and to remember that sudras too eventually will get moksa. With Love, Vikram -- In , " Mohan Sagar " <mmsagar@e...> wrote: > Dear Sri Vikram, > > Thank you for raising this very important issue. As I have not been blessed > to learn the nuances of Sri Bhashyam as of yet, I am unqualifed to quote > chapter and verse from it to defend or disprove Sri Radhakrishnan's > observations. However, from what I have learned, the seeming contradiction > in Sri Ramanuja's defending the caste system and then seemingly rejecting it > in his adoration of the Azhvars really can be resolved when seen in light of > the two different paths that are afforded to us by the Vedas. > > The first of these paths is the one in which we adopt a conscious effort to > realize God through what is prescribed in the Vedas. This approach involves > the practice of proper action, devotion as a formal discipline of worship > and piety, and the seeking of knowledge through contemplation and scholarly > learning, along with a number of associated personal disciplines and > practices. All of these are geared to encourage the seeker to move away > from attachment with this world towards a path that leads one to > emancipation and God-realization. Needless to say, such a path requires > rather stringent qualifications on the part of the individual in order for > one to pursue it properly, and thus, as the Vedas have suggested, remains > limited to only a small fraction of the society who would have both the > intellectual insight and the tenacity to follow it, namely, the male members > of what is popularly known as the " upper three castes " . However, we must > keep in mind that this is only one of two paths that our incomparable Sri > Ramanuja Darshanam provides to us. > > The other path, the path of self-surrender, prapatti, is, according to Sri > Ramanuja and those who follow him, something that is also provided in the > Vedas, but in a somewhat indirect way. However, its fullness and > all-inclusive nature has been revealed in all it lucid clarity by those who > have experienced it directly, the Azhvars, who have shared it with us in a > vernacular language, Tamil, such that it could be experienced and chanted by > all. Such an approach really has no other qualification other than a > willingness to wholeheartedly accept and place oneself in the care of Sriman > Narayana's Unconditional and Boundless Love, seeing Him alone as the means > to Himself. Since God, and not the individual, serves as the way to this > means, it becomes available to each and every person, irrespective of race, > caste, creed or gender. And interestingly, Sri Ramanuja plays the central > role as being the central link in the unbroken chain of Acharyas who have > propogated and become the intercessors in this unique approach to the > Divine. > > But, while it would seem that there is a contradiction here, there really > isn't one. Because from the standpoint of the prapanna, the one who has > surrendered, adherence to caste and the obligations that are part of it, is > really just another means to expressing love for the Lord, since the Vedas > in their True Nature are really pointing us towards Him, and consequently, > can be used to adore Him. Consequently, we are bound to caste only as an > obligation of the body and only for the purposes of serving the Lord and His > Creation. From the standpoint of our hearts, all those who have turned > towards Him as the Means really are equal, as they are all qualified to > connect to Him through the mercy of Sri Ramanuja and the message of the > Azhvars. > > I hope this helps. > > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan > Mohan > > - > <vikrammasson> > > Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:01 PM > A Question about Ramanuja > > > > Pranam, > > > > > > This is my first post to the list. > > > > Dr. Radhakrishnan, in his book Indian Philosophy, Volume II, makes > > this curious statement about Acarya Ramanuja: > > > > " Out of deference to tradition he concedes that freedom is open only > > to the three upper classes, and others will have to work their way up > > and wait for the next birth. " > > (p. 709) > > > > 1. Is this a correct reading? If so can someone please point to the > > section of the Sri Bhasya where he said this? > > > > 2. If it is true how does it reconcile with the worship of the > > Alwars, some of whom were Sudras? > > > > > > Thanking all of the learned members in advance! > > > > > > Vikram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------- > > > > > > srirangarAja charaNAmbhuja rAja hamsam > > srimad parAnkusa padhAmbhuja brungarAjam| > > sri bhattanAtha parakAla mukhAbhja mitram > > srivatsachihnna saranam yathirAjameedE|| > > > > I pay homage to Sri Ramanuja, the swan who has chosen the Lotus Feet of > Sri Ranganatha as his refuge; > > who is collecting the pollen and nectar from the flower-like feet of > Parankusa (NammAzhwAr); > > who brightens like the sun the faces of Bhattanatha (PeriAzhwAr) and > Parakala (Thirumangai AzhwAr), and > > who is the refuge of Kuresa! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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