Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Dear Sri Mukundan, Since you are bringing the agama into picture and talking about it permitting relocation of yaga shalaas and fourth prakaram being allowed - can you give authentic citations?.. Because, I myself have heard that - Priests from Vaikhanasa agama - not belonging to Tirumala opposed such things.. Discussions based on Agamas - are like teaching physics to people who don't know physics.. They will not object to what you say as they are ignorant - If you bring some laid down procedure into the discussion - kindly give authentic details about it and also tell how authentic it is or who laid down these -- Writing in capital letters does not help.. Also, now a days - people take any road side book and say its authentic.. Thats what - even I agree with you that the shastras have been thrown out.. Why don't you throw away the idols of Lord at your place - if they have become old?. Or Why can't your father or mother be sent to old age home or relocated - just because they are ill?.. Why do you think - organizations like Archealogical society of India etc are there?.. In pune, recently - when they tried to encroach into the Agha khan palace for road widening - the authorities informed archealogical society of Indiab and by their intervention - the encroachment was stopped.. Leaving aside all your agamas - "Tell me -- When we visit some places of historical importance - which have message boards - that there was a great monument here which got gutted with fire or was destroyed by an invasion -- we feel bad that we cannot see it there today".. There is a significance - for every thing - which involves its time, location and sanctity.. Why do we treat the Idols of Lord that have been receiving pooja - from generations in our home as having more sanctity - compared to those new ones that we purchased in a temple street recently?.. By telling that an agama supports the demolition and destruction of ancient structures of a temple - are you trying to say - that what ever structure I built with devotion today - can be removed by some worthless fellow ages later - just because the structure became old? Who are you and me to touch the hard work of those vijaya nagara kings --? If there were some smaaraka chihnaas - were your ancestor's relics lie or their memories lie - do you intend to relocate them to any other place - just because you felt so.. While its true that everything is temporary in this world, in a true sense - Yet given a span of time - there are things which need to be preserved and not touched and maintained in that state of permanancy - till mother nature decides to take them into its womb by itself.. What you are saying is like - killing an alive old man - as he is old - rather than letting him die through the natural course.. And even this is wrong in this case - Of what use is the wealth of Tirumala - Can't the authorities there - take care of the maintainance of a simple mandapam?.. This is like a student who never studies all the year - and finally tells that he didn't write the exams or didn't perform well as he was sick a week before the exams.. And regarding the age old changes that have been happening - like tap water being used or like the changes in the laddu offering -- Do you know the history.. Whom ever u are pointing fingers to today - all those were opposing these things right from a long time.. Now that things have really taken such a bad turn - these things are being vehemantly opposed.. What do you mean - making political?.. This is one nice word that people so easily use.. First have the authenticity to talk - and then make comments -- Don't bring in your agamas or shastras and try to preach people - since most of them are not aware .. What I told here are simple points of common sense.. And why the hell do people argue about agamas etc and split themselves like this?.. Are we not all children of Ramanuja - Where have these agamas come to split us suddenly?.. And its really good that you felt that the damage to Pedda Jeeyar mutt, hathi raam baba mutt - were wrong.. But tell me - why can't you apply the same logic and say that - even they can be re-located? - Why did you add the word "Historical Importance" - only to these two structures? And if it comes to that - You wrote - "Nee Kondaku Neeve rappinchuko" - Why do - people want to go explicitely to Tirumala?.. Life is temporary - structures are temporary - temples are temporary - So why go to Tirumala?.. When you can worship at your place or inside your heart?.. Well - if it comes to arrogance - I have enough - because of the position and fame that I enjoy - with the grace of my Aacharya.. And I don't ask for any pardoning - for my statements.. Because, People who are opposing the destruction of these ancient structures are being maligned very badly by press and public and the so called Sri vaishnavaites themselves.. Because all those who are doing this - are behind power and money.. Their world will come tumbling down one day.. There is justice in this world - if you want to call it God.. But it will strike a definite and sure blow - one day.. People - who realize that - will be in their limits and people who don't - will have to take the strike.. Regards, Maruthisudarshan madabushi <mksudarshan2002 wrote: --- elangadu santanam mukundanwrote: > Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:48:10 -0700 (PDT)> elangadu santanam mukundan> > Re: Re: Tirumala> > SRIMATHEY RANGARAMANUJA MAHA DESIKAYA NAMAHA> > RESPECTED SWAMIS,> I SINCERELY FEEL THAT THE TIRUMALA ISSUE IS BEING> POLITICISED. WHY SUCH A HUE AND CRY NOW? SUDDENLY> EVERYONE IS WAKING UP AS IF THE LORD SRINIVASA> MANIFESTED NOW.> WHY WAS THERE NO OPPOSITION(WHEN IT OUGHT TO BE)> WHEN A ROAD WAS LAID TO THE SHRINE (IT SHOULD BE> RECALLED THAT SWAMI RAMANUJAR DID NOT DARE TO WALK> ON> THE SEVEN HILLS)> WHEN THEY STARTED PERFORMING TIRUMANJANAM WITH TAP> WATER (WHEN ABUNDANT SPRING WATER IS AVAILABLE AT> PAPAVINASAM,AKASAGANGA AND GOGARBHAM)> WHEN THE TRADITIONAL JEEYAR SATHUMURAI SEVAI WAS CUT> SHORT> WHEN THE LADDUS WERE SOLD WITHOUT BEING OFFERED TO> THE> LORD AT ALL(EVEN NOW, THEY ARE NOT OFFERED. THESE> LADDUS ARE NO LESS THAN HOTEL LADDUS)> WHEN THE DEVOTEES ARE EXPLOITED AT EACH AND EVERY> PLACE IN TIRUMALA AND TIRUPATI(YOU NEED TO GREASE> THE> PALMS EVERYWHERE RIGHT FROM KALYANA GHATTA TO> DARSHAN)> -------------------> THE GOVT. LOOKS AT THE CONVENIENCE OF THE> DEVOTEES(at> least on paper) HENCE IT LAID DOWN ROADS, STEPS AND> SHELTERS WHEREVER POSSIBLE.(REMEMBER: I AM NOT> SUPPORTING ANY GOVERNMENT)> THE GOVT. FELT THAT IT IS NECESSARY TO CONSTRUCT THE> FOURTH PRAKARAM BY DEMOLISHING THE 1000 PILLAR> TEMPLE> FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF THE PUBLIC. MOREOVER, THE> 1000> PILLAR MANDAPAM WAS DILAPITATED AND WAS IN A> DANGEROUS> POSITION.(It was built in 15th century). NO TEMPLE> FUNCTIONS WERE HELD THERE SINCE A LONG TIME. THOUGH> IT IS AN ANCIENT MONUMENT TO BE PROTECTED, IT CAN> ALWAYS BE RELOCATED TO SOME OTHER PLACE. VAIKHANASA> AGAMA PERMITS THE RELOCATION OF YAGASAALAS> THEMSELVES,> WHAT TO SPEAK OF JUST MANDAPAMS?> MOREOVE, FOURTH PRAKARAM IS PERMITTED IN VAIKHANASA> AGAMA.> THE GOVT. DID SO IN CONSULTATION WITH THE TEMPLE> PRIESTS. IF IT WAS A WRONG DECISION, WHAT WERE THE> SO> CALLED "PROTECTORS" DOING WHEN IT WAS BEING> DEMOLISHED?.> WHY WAS A CASE NOT FILED AGAINST THE GOVT? IT IS> BECAUSE THE VAIKHANASA PANDITS AND TIRUMALA JEER> MUST> HAVE FELT THAT EVERYTHING WAS GOING IN ORDER.> HOWEVER, I STRONGLY CONDEMN THE DESTRUCTION OF> HISORICAL PEDDA JEER MUTT. THE GOVT. HAS NO RIGHT TO> LAY ITS HANDS OF THE MUTT AND BEDI HANUMAN TEMPLE.> THEY CANNOT TOUCH HATHIRAM BABA MUTT ALSO.> WHY SUCH ATROCITIES ARE HAPPENING?> BECAUSE WE HAVE THROWN OUR SHASTRAS. WHAT IF A> GOVT.> OFFICIAL ASKS US "ARE YOU A TRUE ARCHAKA? DO YOU> HAVE> PROPER ANUSHTANAM?" WE WILL BE CLEAN BOWLED. WE> HAVE> COMPROMISED WITH ACHARAM AND ANUSHTANAM AND HENCE WE> HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE. WE CANNOT ANSWER QUESTIONS> LIKE";WHY ARE YOU EATING HERE AND THERE IF YOU ARE A> BHRAHMANA?, WHY ARE YOU PUTTING AYYAPPAN MAALA IF> YOU> ARE A VAISHNAVA PARICHARAKA? WHY ARE YOU GOING TO> PUTTAPARTHI SAIBABA OR SHIRDI SAIBABA IF YOU ARE A> TRUE VAISHNAVA?WHY DON'T YOU WEAR 12 OORDHVAPUNDRA> AND> SHIKHA IF YOU ARE AN ARCHAKA? WHY DON'T YOU COME> WITH> PROPER VAISHNAVA SWAROOPAM IF YOU WANT JEEYAR> SEVAI?"> > LET US INTROSPECT OURSELVES. LET US FOLLOW THE PATH> OF OUR POORV ACHARYAS SINCERELY. THE LORD WILL SET> EVERYTHING STRAIGHT. "NEE KONDAKU NEEVE> RAPPINCHUKO"> AS LONG AS WE ENACT DRAMAS AND STUNTS WITHOUT PROPER> INVOLVEMENT AND BHAKTI, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. THE> GOVT. WILL GO AHEAD WITH ITS DEMOLITIONS.> > H.H. TEREZHUNDUR ANDAVAN USED TO ASK HIS> DISCIPLES"ENNADA ANDA BOMMAYAI PATHUTTU VANDIYA?"> BOMMAI REFERS TO LORD SRI RANGANATHA SINCE THERE WAS> NO SHASTRIC WORSHIP IN LINE WITH AAGAMAS. > IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, TIRUMALA IS HOLY SHRINE ONLY> BECAUSE OF MILLIONS OF DEVOTEES WHO CHANT "GOVINDA> NAMA SANKIRTANAM". NOT BECAUSE OF THE MOOLAVAR> BOMMAI> SRINIVASA PERUMAL. HE RAN AWAY TO HIS ABODE LONG> BACK> LEAVING BACK HIS IMAGE.OF COURSE, EVEN HIS DIETY IS> TRANSCENDENTAL FOR US. HENCE THE CROWD AND> COLLECTION.> > KINDLY PARDON THIS DAASA, IF THE ABOVE STATEMENTS> SOUND ARROGANT. CRITICISMS ARE WELCOME> DAASAN> E.S.MUKUNDAN,SECUNDERABAD.> > DAASAN> E.S.MUKUNDAN,SEC'BAD.> > --- narsimhan csl wrote:> > > > > Dear Sri Sudarshan swamy,> > > > I am very happy at your response & u spoke the> > complete nerve that we have been following so far.> > In fact, we are a running a temple protection> > movement in Andhra Pradesh with a motto to restore> > past glory of many temples. It is with the support> > of many devotees an awakening to this respect is> > created now. Some are restored, let us see how far> > we can go.> > > > Govt has a big department with lots of officers> and> > staff, but the money they get from big temples> like> > TTD becomes sufficient to pay the salaries of the> > high ranking officers and staff of these temples.> > Nothing ofcourse goes to small temples - only> > contributions to the exchequer are taken from> them.> > > > Being rich temple, TTD gets lot of attention from> > the govt.> > > > Lord is the creator, protector & destroyer.> > > > Sajjana Padapadma parama renuhu> > > > Lakshmi Narasimha dasan> > > > > > > > Sudarshan K Madabushi> > > wrote: ,> narsimhan> > csl > > wrote:> > > I am extremely pained to see the 1000 pillar> > mandapam in front of > > the temple simply razed to nothing. It is> pathetic> > to see that many > > buildings & surroundings of great importance which> > are desrved to be > > protected at what ever cost have been mercilessly> > demolished without > > any respect for the past. > > > >Instead of talking all these sampradaya, they> > should > > > >be talking about protecting our heritage and> > saving > > > >our lord from these corrupt TTD officials and> > fake > > > >swamijis. > > > > IT LOOKS TO ME JUST FOR THE SAKE OF > > > >DISCUSSION, WE DISCUSS ALL THESE CRAP (SORRY TO> > SAY, > > > >AS I FEEL IF WE DONT WANT TO PROTECT THE GOD> AND> > THEN > > > >TALK GREATNESS ABOUT THE SAME god, IT IS REALLY> > > > >FUNNY). BY DOING THIS , WE MAY GET SATISFACTION> > BY > > > >SHOWING OF YOURSELF TO EVERYONE ). May be I> > should get > > > >out of this . > > > > **************> > > > Dear members,> > > > The sentiments which more than one correspondent> has> > expressed above > > are all surely genuine and justified. > > > > However, I must say I wish the same degree of care> > and concern is > > also demonstrated by everyone for the upkeep,> > protection and > > preservation of several other hundreds of temples> > that are > > languishing in S.India (especially T'nadu). > > > > When a 1000-mantapam structure in Tirumala is> razed> > it inspires > > SriVaishnavas, both at home and abroad, to take up> > cudgels if not > > arms. Very good, and we must welcome it, of> course.> > But what about > > hundreds of lesser "mantapam-s" in scores of> lesser> > temples being > > daily destroyed right before our eyes, through> sheer> > neglect and > > apathy on our part? Why don't we raise a hue and> cry> > for those poor > > temples simply rotting away? We must ask why is it> > that no "mattadhi-> > pati" or high-profile pontiff comes forward to> > defend or otherwise > > rouse his faithful following to support such> poorer> > temples? I have > > never quite understood why it must always be> > "tiruvEngadamUdaiyAn" > > who must always monopolize the limelight at the> > expense of hundreds > > of other poorer ones in the country? > > > > (Here I must say I really salute those> > individuals/charitable > > institutions who today are silently involved in> the> > restoration and > > upkeep of small 'adopted' temples and> > "divya-dEsam-s". They, in fact, > > are the ones with the utmost credibility to> protest> > against the > > destruction of the 1000-mantapam at Tirumala. They> > could easily make > > an iron-clad case if they were to say to the TTD,> > "With the same > > amount of money you spent in demolishing the> > Tirumala-mantapam, we > > could restore a dozen or more smaller temples that> > are under our > > care. So dear Mr.TTD, please let us restore our> > temples first before > > you go tearing yours down!").> > > > To the gentleman who wrote above to say that> (QUOTE)> > IT LOOKS TO ME > > JUST FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION, WE DISCUSS ALL> > THESE CRAP (SORRY TO > > SAY, > >AS I FEEL IF WE DONT WANT TO PROTECT THE> GOD> > AND THEN > > > >TALK GREATNESS ABOUT THE SAME god,(UN-QUOTE)...> > to him above, I > > can only say: Sir, unless you show us what really> > you did for the > > sake of the upkeep/ preservation of other indigent> > temples in > > S.India, all your righteous indignation might> > qualify too as no more > > than plain "CRAP" (to use your own very elegant & > > parliamentary > > expression).> > > > The SriVaishnava community today faces a crisis of> > credibility, not > > of piety.> > > > Rgds,> > > > dAsan,> > Sudarshan ______________________ India Matrimony: Find your life partner onlineGo to: http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Just wanted to add my point in support of the statement that -- "Other temples in pitiable state - are being ignored".. This statement is absolutely true - and I know people who are closely associated to those who are currently opposing the Tirumala demolition - are doing their bit in this too.. I think there is a difference -- Tirumala has lots of money and other temples don't have it.. So when TTD says that - old structures can be demolished as they are in a dangerous state - It is absolute nonsense.. And regarding the other - divya deshams - If there is the truth of less or no maintainance - No one encroaches into their functioning there atleast - And why can't a percentage (a small) of wealthy temples like Tirumala - be diverted to the maintainance of these temples?.. This point was also made a number of times - by the concerned protestors of the current Tirumala demolition to the government of AP .. While maintainance is one major issue - which has to be taken care off -- Destruction of heritage - mass destruction as its happening - should be opposed strongly.. Maruthi New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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