is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord in anyform one desires?

[Guest guest]

SrI:

SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:

SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:

 

SrImAn adviteeya dixit ji,

 

Thank you very much for the intent of your mail.

Although your message suggests people to worship

SrImAn nArAyaNa alone in His divya mangaLa vigraha

form, in some places, it appears that explanation is

inadequate. I put forward my opinions, and if any

points are wrong, elders in the group can correct me.

 

1. your explanation of SrImad rAmAnuja's view on 4-11

verse of bhagavad geeta...

 

ye yatha mam prapadyante

tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

mama vartmanuvartante

manusyah partha sarvasah

 

Ramanuja bhashya...

Whosoever desirous of resorting to me, in whatever

manner they think of me, according to their

inclinations and resort to me, in that manner, as

desired by them, I revel myself to them. i favor them

in the same way as wished by them.

 

rAmAnuja further quotes that> Why say much here? All

men who are intent on following Me do experience, with

their own eyes and other organs of sense in all ways,

i.e., in every way wished by them My form (including

images), however inaccessible it might be to speach

and the thought of the yOgins.

 

By these further comments of rAmAnuja, we can infer

that rAmAnuja is not pointing to the forms of other

deities super-imposed on SrImAn nArAyaNa, but His OWN

FORMS including His archa vigrahAs. This includes all

the five types of SrImAn nArAyaNa's avatArAs. Another

angle possible for the verse is that if one a develops

a servitude relation, Lord becomes the master to

accept the services, if the devotee wants to to be

connected as a friend to the Lord, Lord becomes a

friend....

 

2. Your description of Sri annamAchArya's kIrtana

appears to be unrealistical extrapolation of original

message...

 

Entamatramuna evvaru dalachina antamatrame neevu

antarantaramulenci chuda pindante nippati yendattlu//

 

whatever one percieves you as, to them , You are that

However the dough is, so is the pancake

 

Vaishnavas serve You with love as ?Vishnu?

Vedantins call You the ?Para Brahman?

Shaivaites and some devotees say You are ?Shiva?

Kapalikas praise You as ?Adi Bhairava?!

Shakteyas worship You as the ?Divine Sakti?

Perceiving You in various ways, people worship You as

their thoughts run

 

to those who take You as nothing, to them You are

nothing

To the wise ones who take You as the superior most,

You are the most magnificent!

 

>>>> The original verse of SrI annamAchArya just

points out that, 'depending on the amount of the

surrender of the devotee He makes Himself available

accordingly, just like the quantity of dough decides

the size of pancake'. The verse has nothing to do with

worship of other deities, or mistaking SrImAn nArAyaNa

to be siva or some one else. you repeated the same

verse again elsewhere in the mail with exactly

opposite view to your current view. Neverthless, I

want to point it out clearly.

 

3.

 

yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktah

sraddhayarcitum icchati

tasya tasyacalam sraddham

tam eva vidadhamy aham

 

Whosoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whatever

form he desires, that form and faith I make steadfast.

 

Ramanuja...

" Whoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whatever

form of mine, such as Indra etc, although not knowning

these divinities to be My forms alone, I still

consider his faith as being directed to my own

manifestation, and thereby make his faith steadfast,

ie make it free from obstacles.

 

>>>>> A small addition to the above extract, rAmAnuja

explicitly quotes sruti text in this 7.21 purport: 'He

who dwelling in the sun, whom the sun doesnot know,

whose body is the sun' (Br.U. 3.7.9) to confirm, these

other divinities only form His body. Ramanuja

elsewhere also mentions that all the names such as

indra, siva,.... apply to Lord vishNu primarily

because He is the antaryAmi of all of them. But the

primary thing to observe is that Lord vishNu is

clearly different from siva and other demigods.

Worshipping Siva may help a saivite because, Siva

being a great devotee of SrImAn nArAyaNa imparts the

divine knowledge of great knowledge about the

supremacy of SrI hari to his devotee. But, one who

mistakes SrI Hari to be Siva, is in much strange

position, because He is doing bhagavat aparAdham,

which is strongly condemned by vEdAs.

 

4. So is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord in

any form one desires?

Yes, in a way, that only if the devotee knows the

reality that all deities are different manifestations

of the one Parabrahman Narayana.

>>>> I believe that this answer helps the cause of

advaitins and not sri vaishNavAs at all. This appears

to be a very anti-vedic answer. Because according to

padma purANa, one of the most abonimable sins is to

consider other divinities to be same or superior to

SrImAn nArAyaNa.

 

 

 

 

The above opinions are the product of my limited

knowledge which is certainly inadequate to

discriminate truth from untruth. Hence, the elders of

the group may correct me, if they find any

inconsistencies or shortcomings in my understanding.

 

I am very happy that SrI adviteeya dixit ji is

intended to propogate the divine outpourings of SrI

annamAchArya who is a parama bhAgavata. I pray to

SrImAn nArAyaNa to make this a successful endeavor of

deexit ji. I apologise for any offense committed in

composing this mail.

 

dAsOham,

SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.

 

 

 

 

__

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[Guest guest]

vinod swamin,

 

Ithink though Dixit ji has taken some extrapolation, in fact koil thiruvaimozhi

also states this concept.

 

Avar avar tamatamad arivari vagai vagai .......

 

I feel the inference is you reap the reward according to te level of shanagathi that is why

desikan says

 

anyatha saranam naasti tvameva sharanam ma ma

 

dasan/raghavanvinod sv <winode_sv wrote:

SrI:SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:SrImAn adviteeya dixit ji,Thank you very much for the intent of your mail.Although your message suggests people to worshipSrImAn nArAyaNa alone in His divya mangaLa vigrahaform, in some places, it appears that explanation isinadequate. I put forward my opinions, and if anypoints are wrong, elders in the group can correct me. 1. your explanation of SrImad rAmAnuja's view on 4-11verse of bhagavad geeta...ye yatha mam prapadyantetams tathaiva bhajamy ahammama vartmanuvartantemanusyah partha sarvasahRamanuja bhashya...Whosoever desirous of resorting to me, in whatevermanner they think of me, according to theirinclinations and resort to me, in that manner, asdesired by them, I revel myself to them. i favor themin the

same way as wished by them.rAmAnuja further quotes that> Why say much here? Allmen who are intent on following Me do experience, withtheir own eyes and other organs of sense in all ways,i.e., in every way wished by them My form (includingimages), however inaccessible it might be to speachand the thought of the yOgins. By these further comments of rAmAnuja, we can inferthat rAmAnuja is not pointing to the forms of otherdeities super-imposed on SrImAn nArAyaNa, but His OWNFORMS including His archa vigrahAs. This includes allthe five types of SrImAn nArAyaNa's avatArAs. Anotherangle possible for the verse is that if one a developsa servitude relation, Lord becomes the master toaccept the services, if the devotee wants to to beconnected as a friend to the Lord, Lord becomes afriend....2. Your description of Sri annamAchArya's kIrtanaappears to be unrealistical extrapolation of

originalmessage...Entamatramuna evvaru dalachina antamatrame neevuantarantaramulenci chuda pindante nippati yendattlu//whatever one percieves you as, to them , You are thatHowever the dough is, so is the pancakeVaishnavas serve You with love as ?Vishnu?Vedantins call You the ?Para Brahman?Shaivaites and some devotees say You are ?Shiva?Kapalikas praise You as ?Adi Bhairava?!Shakteyas worship You as the ?Divine Sakti?Perceiving You in various ways, people worship You astheir thoughts runto those who take You as nothing, to them You arenothingTo the wise ones who take You as the superior most,You are the most magnificent!>>>> The original verse of SrI annamAchArya justpoints out that, 'depending on the amount of thesurrender of the devotee He makes Himself availableaccordingly, just like the quantity of dough decidesthe size of pancake'. The verse has nothing to do

withworship of other deities, or mistaking SrImAn nArAyaNato be siva or some one else. you repeated the sameverse again elsewhere in the mail with exactlyopposite view to your current view. Neverthless, Iwant to point it out clearly.3. yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktahsraddhayarcitum icchatitasya tasyacalam sraddhamtam eva vidadhamy ahamWhosoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform he desires, that form and faith I make steadfast.Ramanuja..."Whoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform of mine, such as Indra etc, although not knowningthese divinities to be My forms alone, I stillconsider his faith as being directed to my ownmanifestation, and thereby make his faith steadfast,ie make it free from obstacles.>>>>> A small addition to the above extract, rAmAnujaexplicitly quotes sruti text in this 7.21 purport: 'Hewho dwelling in the sun,

whom the sun doesnot know,whose body is the sun' (Br.U. 3.7.9) to confirm, theseother divinities only form His body. Ramanujaelsewhere also mentions that all the names such asindra, siva,.... apply to Lord vishNu primarilybecause He is the antaryAmi of all of them. But theprimary thing to observe is that Lord vishNu isclearly different from siva and other demigods.Worshipping Siva may help a saivite because, Sivabeing a great devotee of SrImAn nArAyaNa imparts thedivine knowledge of great knowledge about thesupremacy of SrI hari to his devotee. But, one whomistakes SrI Hari to be Siva, is in much strangeposition, because He is doing bhagavat aparAdham,which is strongly condemned by vEdAs.4. So is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord inany form one desires? Yes, in a way, that only if the devotee knows thereality that all deities are different manifestationsof the one Parabrahman Narayana.

>>>> I believe that this answer helps the cause ofadvaitins and not sri vaishNavAs at all. This appearsto be a very anti-vedic answer. Because according topadma purANa, one of the most abonimable sins is toconsider other divinities to be same or superior toSrImAn nArAyaNa. The above opinions are the product of my limitedknowledge which is certainly inadequate todiscriminate truth from untruth. Hence, the elders ofthe group may correct me, if they find anyinconsistencies or shortcomings in my understanding. I am very happy that SrI adviteeya dixit ji isintended to propogate the divine outpourings of SrIannamAchArya who is a parama bhAgavata. I pray toSrImAn nArAyaNa to make this a successful endeavor ofdeexit ji. I apologise for any offense committed incomposing this mail.dAsOham, SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.

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[Guest guest]

Shrimathey Nigamantha Maha Deshikaya Namaha

 

Lord Krishna also says in the following shlokas that though He gives the benefit through other deities, the worshippers themselves are not acting according to the shastras. Even where it is incumbent on people to propitiate or worship other deities in nithya or naimitthika karmas, we have to do the same as propitiation or worship to the antharyami who is Bhagavan or assign those names to Bhagavan Himself to propitiate or worship Him only. Other than nithya or naimittika karmas, we should not pray to other demigods or demigodesses. This is the position adopted by Swami Emperumanar and Swami Deshikar.

Asmath Gurubhyo Namaha.

Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote:

 

vinod swamin,

 

Ithink though Dixit ji has taken some extrapolation, in fact koil thiruvaimozhi

also states this concept.

 

Avar avar tamatamad arivari vagai vagai .......

 

I feel the inference is you reap the reward according to te level of shanagathi that is why

desikan says

 

anyatha saranam naasti tvameva sharanam ma ma

 

dasan/raghavanvinod sv <winode_sv wrote:

SrI:SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:SrImAn adviteeya dixit ji,Thank you very much for the intent of your mail.Although your message suggests people to worshipSrImAn nArAyaNa alone in His divya mangaLa vigrahaform, in some places, it appears that explanation isinadequate. I put forward my opinions, and if anypoints are wrong, elders in the group can correct me. 1. your explanation of SrImad rAmAnuja's view on 4-11verse of bhagavad geeta...ye yatha mam prapadyantetams tathaiva bhajamy ahammama vartmanuvartantemanusyah partha sarvasahRamanuja bhashya...Whosoever desirous of resorting to me, in whatevermanner they think of me, according to theirinclinations and resort to me, in that manner, asdesired by them, I revel myself to them. i favor themin the

same way as wished by them.rAmAnuja further quotes that> Why say much here? Allmen who are intent on following Me do experience, withtheir own eyes and other organs of sense in all ways,i.e., in every way wished by them My form (includingimages), however inaccessible it might be to speachand the thought of the yOgins. By these further comments of rAmAnuja, we can inferthat rAmAnuja is not pointing to the forms of otherdeities super-imposed on SrImAn nArAyaNa, but His OWNFORMS including His archa vigrahAs. This includes allthe five types of SrImAn nArAyaNa's avatArAs. Anotherangle possible for the verse is that if one a developsa servitude relation, Lord becomes the master toaccept the services, if the devotee wants to to beconnected as a friend to the Lord, Lord becomes afriend....2. Your description of Sri annamAchArya's kIrtanaappears to be unrealistical extrapolation of

originalmessage...Entamatramuna evvaru dalachina antamatrame neevuantarantaramulenci chuda pindante nippati yendattlu//whatever one percieves you as, to them , You are thatHowever the dough is, so is the pancakeVaishnavas serve You with love as ?Vishnu?Vedantins call You the ?Para Brahman?Shaivaites and some devotees say You are ?Shiva?Kapalikas praise You as ?Adi Bhairava?!Shakteyas worship You as the ?Divine Sakti?Perceiving You in various ways, people worship You astheir thoughts runto those who take You as nothing, to them You arenothingTo the wise ones who take You as the superior most,You are the most magnificent!>>>> The original verse of SrI annamAchArya justpoints out that, 'depending on the amount of thesurrender of the devotee He makes Himself availableaccordingly, just like the quantity of dough decidesthe size of pancake'. The verse has nothing to do

withworship of other deities, or mistaking SrImAn nArAyaNato be siva or some one else. you repeated the sameverse again elsewhere in the mail with exactlyopposite view to your current view. Neverthless, Iwant to point it out clearly.3. yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktahsraddhayarcitum icchatitasya tasyacalam sraddhamtam eva vidadhamy ahamWhosoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform he desires, that form and faith I make steadfast.Ramanuja..."Whoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform of mine, such as Indra etc, although not knowningthese divinities to be My forms alone, I stillconsider his faith as being directed to my ownmanifestation, and thereby make his faith steadfast,ie make it free from obstacles.>>>>> A small addition to the above extract, rAmAnujaexplicitly quotes sruti text in this 7.21 purport: 'Hewho dwelling in the sun,

whom the sun doesnot know,whose body is the sun' (Br.U. 3.7.9) to confirm, theseother divinities only form His body. Ramanujaelsewhere also mentions that all the names such asindra, siva,.... apply to Lord vishNu primarilybecause He is the antaryAmi of all of them. But theprimary thing to observe is that Lord vishNu isclearly different from siva and other demigods.Worshipping Siva may help a saivite because, Sivabeing a great devotee of SrImAn nArAyaNa imparts thedivine knowledge of great knowledge about thesupremacy of SrI hari to his devotee. But, one whomistakes SrI Hari to be Siva, is in much strangeposition, because He is doing bhagavat aparAdham,which is strongly condemned by vEdAs.4. So is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord inany form one desires? Yes, in a way, that only if the devotee knows thereality that all deities are different manifestationsof the one Parabrahman Narayana.

>>>> I believe that this answer helps the cause ofadvaitins and not sri vaishNavAs at all. This appearsto be a very anti-vedic answer. Because according topadma purANa, one of the most abonimable sins is toconsider other divinities to be same or superior toSrImAn nArAyaNa. The above opinions are the product of my limitedknowledge which is certainly inadequate todiscriminate truth from untruth. Hence, the elders ofthe group may correct me, if they find anyinconsistencies or shortcomings in my understanding. I am very happy that SrI adviteeya dixit ji isintended to propogate the divine outpourings of SrIannamAchArya who is a parama bhAgavata. I pray toSrImAn nArAyaNa to make this a successful endeavor ofdeexit ji. I apologise for any offense committed incomposing this mail.dAsOham, SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.

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[Guest guest]

Vasudevan swami,

 

I agree with you totally that we have to worship or love or surrender only to Narayanan.

 

But what to do for getting a birth certificate I cannot go to the president.

 

I think you will understand the analogy, I have to go to demigods for smaller things, not burden

my emperuman.

 

Dasan/raghavanVasudevan VK <vasuchak wrote:

 

Shrimathey Nigamantha Maha Deshikaya Namaha

 

Lord Krishna also says in the following shlokas that though He gives the benefit through other deities, the worshippers themselves are not acting according to the shastras. Even where it is incumbent on people to propitiate or worship other deities in nithya or naimitthika karmas, we have to do the same as propitiation or worship to the antharyami who is Bhagavan or assign those names to Bhagavan Himself to propitiate or worship Him only. Other than nithya or naimittika karmas, we should not pray to other demigods or demigodesses. This is the position adopted by Swami Emperumanar and Swami Deshikar.

Asmath Gurubhyo Namaha.

Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote:

 

vinod swamin,

 

Ithink though Dixit ji has taken some extrapolation, in fact koil thiruvaimozhi

also states this concept.

 

Avar avar tamatamad arivari vagai vagai .......

 

I feel the inference is you reap the reward according to te level of shanagathi that is why

desikan says

 

anyatha saranam naasti tvameva sharanam ma ma

 

dasan/raghavanvinod sv <winode_sv wrote:

SrI:SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:SrImAn adviteeya dixit ji,Thank you very much for the intent of your mail.Although your message suggests people to worshipSrImAn nArAyaNa alone in His divya mangaLa vigrahaform, in some places, it appears that explanation isinadequate. I put forward my opinions, and if anypoints are wrong, elders in the group can correct me. 1. your explanation of SrImad rAmAnuja's view on 4-11verse of bhagavad geeta...ye yatha mam prapadyantetams tathaiva bhajamy ahammama vartmanuvartantemanusyah partha sarvasahRamanuja bhashya...Whosoever desirous of resorting to me, in whatevermanner they think of me, according to theirinclinations and resort to me, in that manner, asdesired by them, I revel myself to them. i favor themin the

same way as wished by them.rAmAnuja further quotes that> Why say much here? Allmen who are intent on following Me do experience, withtheir own eyes and other organs of sense in all ways,i.e., in every way wished by them My form (includingimages), however inaccessible it might be to speachand the thought of the yOgins. By these further comments of rAmAnuja, we can inferthat rAmAnuja is not pointing to the forms of otherdeities super-imposed on SrImAn nArAyaNa, but His OWNFORMS including His archa vigrahAs. This includes allthe five types of SrImAn nArAyaNa's avatArAs. Anotherangle possible for the verse is that if one a developsa servitude relation, Lord becomes the master toaccept the services, if the devotee wants to to beconnected as a friend to the Lord, Lord becomes afriend....2. Your description of Sri annamAchArya's kIrtanaappears to be unrealistical extrapolation of

originalmessage...Entamatramuna evvaru dalachina antamatrame neevuantarantaramulenci chuda pindante nippati yendattlu//whatever one percieves you as, to them , You are thatHowever the dough is, so is the pancakeVaishnavas serve You with love as ?Vishnu?Vedantins call You the ?Para Brahman?Shaivaites and some devotees say You are ?Shiva?Kapalikas praise You as ?Adi Bhairava?!Shakteyas worship You as the ?Divine Sakti?Perceiving You in various ways, people worship You astheir thoughts runto those who take You as nothing, to them You arenothingTo the wise ones who take You as the superior most,You are the most magnificent!>>>> The original verse of SrI annamAchArya justpoints out that, 'depending on the amount of thesurrender of the devotee He makes Himself availableaccordingly, just like the quantity of dough decidesthe size of pancake'. The verse has nothing to do

withworship of other deities, or mistaking SrImAn nArAyaNato be siva or some one else. you repeated the sameverse again elsewhere in the mail with exactlyopposite view to your current view. Neverthless, Iwant to point it out clearly.3. yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktahsraddhayarcitum icchatitasya tasyacalam sraddhamtam eva vidadhamy ahamWhosoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform he desires, that form and faith I make steadfast.Ramanuja..."Whoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform of mine, such as Indra etc, although not knowningthese divinities to be My forms alone, I stillconsider his faith as being directed to my ownmanifestation, and thereby make his faith steadfast,ie make it free from obstacles.>>>>> A small addition to the above extract, rAmAnujaexplicitly quotes sruti text in this 7.21 purport: 'Hewho dwelling in the sun,

whom the sun doesnot know,whose body is the sun' (Br.U. 3.7.9) to confirm, theseother divinities only form His body. Ramanujaelsewhere also mentions that all the names such asindra, siva,.... apply to Lord vishNu primarilybecause He is the antaryAmi of all of them. But theprimary thing to observe is that Lord vishNu isclearly different from siva and other demigods.Worshipping Siva may help a saivite because, Sivabeing a great devotee of SrImAn nArAyaNa imparts thedivine knowledge of great knowledge about thesupremacy of SrI hari to his devotee. But, one whomistakes SrI Hari to be Siva, is in much strangeposition, because He is doing bhagavat aparAdham,which is strongly condemned by vEdAs.4. So is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord inany form one desires? Yes, in a way, that only if the devotee knows thereality that all deities are different manifestationsof the one Parabrahman Narayana.

>>>> I believe that this answer helps the cause ofadvaitins and not sri vaishNavAs at all. This appearsto be a very anti-vedic answer. Because according topadma purANa, one of the most abonimable sins is toconsider other divinities to be same or superior toSrImAn nArAyaNa. The above opinions are the product of my limitedknowledge which is certainly inadequate todiscriminate truth from untruth. Hence, the elders ofthe group may correct me, if they find anyinconsistencies or shortcomings in my understanding. I am very happy that SrI adviteeya dixit ji isintended to propogate the divine outpourings of SrIannamAchArya who is a parama bhAgavata. I pray toSrImAn nArAyaNa to make this a successful endeavor ofdeexit ji. I apologise for any offense committed incomposing this mail.dAsOham, SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.

__Sell on Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions./

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Shrimathey Nigamantha Maha Deshikaya Namaha

 

Respected Raghavan Swami,

 

It is indeed true that you cannot get a birth certificate from the President. However, that is true for ordinary mortals who cannot do different things at the same time. This certainly does not apply to the Lord of the Universe. The Lord categorically states in the Bhagavad Geetha that if his devotee takes one step towards Him, He takes 10 steps to reach out to the devotee. Hence my opinion is that for such things we cannot equate or even try to equate the Lord with human beings like the President, PM, CM etc. Their capacity is limited by their own karma and they are all jivatmas only.

 

Asmath Gurubhyo NamahaVijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote:

 

Vasudevan swami,

 

I agree with you totally that we have to worship or love or surrender only to Narayanan.

 

But what to do for getting a birth certificate I cannot go to the president.

 

I think you will understand the analogy, I have to go to demigods for smaller things, not burden

my emperuman.

 

Dasan/raghavanVasudevan VK <vasuchak wrote:

 

Shrimathey Nigamantha Maha Deshikaya Namaha

 

Lord Krishna also says in the following shlokas that though He gives the benefit through other deities, the worshippers themselves are not acting according to the shastras. Even where it is incumbent on people to propitiate or worship other deities in nithya or naimitthika karmas, we have to do the same as propitiation or worship to the antharyami who is Bhagavan or assign those names to Bhagavan Himself to propitiate or worship Him only. Other than nithya or naimittika karmas, we should not pray to other demigods or demigodesses. This is the position adopted by Swami Emperumanar and Swami Deshikar.

Asmath Gurubhyo Namaha.

Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote:

 

vinod swamin,

 

Ithink though Dixit ji has taken some extrapolation, in fact koil thiruvaimozhi

also states this concept.

 

Avar avar tamatamad arivari vagai vagai .......

 

I feel the inference is you reap the reward according to te level of shanagathi that is why

desikan says

 

anyatha saranam naasti tvameva sharanam ma ma

 

dasan/raghavanvinod sv <winode_sv wrote:

SrI:SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:SrImAn adviteeya dixit ji,Thank you very much for the intent of your mail.Although your message suggests people to worshipSrImAn nArAyaNa alone in His divya mangaLa vigrahaform, in some places, it appears that explanation isinadequate. I put forward my opinions, and if anypoints are wrong, elders in the group can correct me. 1. your explanation of SrImad rAmAnuja's view on 4-11verse of bhagavad geeta...ye yatha mam prapadyantetams tathaiva bhajamy ahammama vartmanuvartantemanusyah partha sarvasahRamanuja bhashya...Whosoever desirous of resorting to me, in whatevermanner they think of me, according to theirinclinations and resort to me, in that manner, asdesired by them, I revel myself to them. i favor themin the

same way as wished by them.rAmAnuja further quotes that> Why say much here? Allmen who are intent on following Me do experience, withtheir own eyes and other organs of sense in all ways,i.e., in every way wished by them My form (includingimages), however inaccessible it might be to speachand the thought of the yOgins. By these further comments of rAmAnuja, we can inferthat rAmAnuja is not pointing to the forms of otherdeities super-imposed on SrImAn nArAyaNa, but His OWNFORMS including His archa vigrahAs. This includes allthe five types of SrImAn nArAyaNa's avatArAs. Anotherangle possible for the verse is that if one a developsa servitude relation, Lord becomes the master toaccept the services, if the devotee wants to to beconnected as a friend to the Lord, Lord becomes afriend....2. Your description of Sri annamAchArya's kIrtanaappears to be unrealistical extrapolation of

originalmessage...Entamatramuna evvaru dalachina antamatrame neevuantarantaramulenci chuda pindante nippati yendattlu//whatever one percieves you as, to them , You are thatHowever the dough is, so is the pancakeVaishnavas serve You with love as ?Vishnu?Vedantins call You the ?Para Brahman?Shaivaites and some devotees say You are ?Shiva?Kapalikas praise You as ?Adi Bhairava?!Shakteyas worship You as the ?Divine Sakti?Perceiving You in various ways, people worship You astheir thoughts runto those who take You as nothing, to them You arenothingTo the wise ones who take You as the superior most,You are the most magnificent!>>>> The original verse of SrI annamAchArya justpoints out that, 'depending on the amount of thesurrender of the devotee He makes Himself availableaccordingly, just like the quantity of dough decidesthe size of pancake'. The verse has nothing to do

withworship of other deities, or mistaking SrImAn nArAyaNato be siva or some one else. you repeated the sameverse again elsewhere in the mail with exactlyopposite view to your current view. Neverthless, Iwant to point it out clearly.3. yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktahsraddhayarcitum icchatitasya tasyacalam sraddhamtam eva vidadhamy ahamWhosoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform he desires, that form and faith I make steadfast.Ramanuja..."Whoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform of mine, such as Indra etc, although not knowningthese divinities to be My forms alone, I stillconsider his faith as being directed to my ownmanifestation, and thereby make his faith steadfast,ie make it free from obstacles.>>>>> A small addition to the above extract, rAmAnujaexplicitly quotes sruti text in this 7.21 purport: 'Hewho dwelling in the sun,

whom the sun doesnot know,whose body is the sun' (Br.U. 3.7.9) to confirm, theseother divinities only form His body. Ramanujaelsewhere also mentions that all the names such asindra, siva,.... apply to Lord vishNu primarilybecause He is the antaryAmi of all of them. But theprimary thing to observe is that Lord vishNu isclearly different from siva and other demigods.Worshipping Siva may help a saivite because, Sivabeing a great devotee of SrImAn nArAyaNa imparts thedivine knowledge of great knowledge about thesupremacy of SrI hari to his devotee. But, one whomistakes SrI Hari to be Siva, is in much strangeposition, because He is doing bhagavat aparAdham,which is strongly condemned by vEdAs.4. So is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord inany form one desires? Yes, in a way, that only if the devotee knows thereality that all deities are different manifestationsof the one Parabrahman Narayana.

>>>> I believe that this answer helps the cause ofadvaitins and not sri vaishNavAs at all. This appearsto be a very anti-vedic answer. Because according topadma purANa, one of the most abonimable sins is toconsider other divinities to be same or superior toSrImAn nArAyaNa. The above opinions are the product of my limitedknowledge which is certainly inadequate todiscriminate truth from untruth. Hence, the elders ofthe group may correct me, if they find anyinconsistencies or shortcomings in my understanding. I am very happy that SrI adviteeya dixit ji isintended to propogate the divine outpourings of SrIannamAchArya who is a parama bhAgavata. I pray toSrImAn nArAyaNa to make this a successful endeavor ofdeexit ji. I apologise for any offense committed incomposing this mail.dAsOham, SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.

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[Guest guest]

Vasudevan swami,

 

I am much younger, you can correct me no respects for me.

 

I just made it as an analogy so that everyone understands that who is supreme.

 

Pl forgive if you think I am stressing something wrong.

 

dasan/raghvanVasudevan VK <vasuchak wrote:

 

Shrimathey Nigamantha Maha Deshikaya Namaha

 

Respected Raghavan Swami,

 

It is indeed true that you cannot get a birth certificate from the President. However, that is true for ordinary mortals who cannot do different things at the same time. This certainly does not apply to the Lord of the Universe. The Lord categorically states in the Bhagavad Geetha that if his devotee takes one step towards Him, He takes 10 steps to reach out to the devotee. Hence my opinion is that for such things we cannot equate or even try to equate the Lord with human beings like the President, PM, CM etc. Their capacity is limited by their own karma and they are all jivatmas only.

 

Asmath Gurubhyo NamahaVijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote:

 

Vasudevan swami,

 

I agree with you totally that we have to worship or love or surrender only to Narayanan.

 

But what to do for getting a birth certificate I cannot go to the president.

 

I think you will understand the analogy, I have to go to demigods for smaller things, not burden

my emperuman.

 

Dasan/raghavanVasudevan VK <vasuchak wrote:

 

Shrimathey Nigamantha Maha Deshikaya Namaha

 

Lord Krishna also says in the following shlokas that though He gives the benefit through other deities, the worshippers themselves are not acting according to the shastras. Even where it is incumbent on people to propitiate or worship other deities in nithya or naimitthika karmas, we have to do the same as propitiation or worship to the antharyami who is Bhagavan or assign those names to Bhagavan Himself to propitiate or worship Him only. Other than nithya or naimittika karmas, we should not pray to other demigods or demigodesses. This is the position adopted by Swami Emperumanar and Swami Deshikar.

Asmath Gurubhyo Namaha.

Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan wrote:

 

vinod swamin,

 

Ithink though Dixit ji has taken some extrapolation, in fact koil thiruvaimozhi

also states this concept.

 

Avar avar tamatamad arivari vagai vagai .......

 

I feel the inference is you reap the reward according to te level of shanagathi that is why

desikan says

 

anyatha saranam naasti tvameva sharanam ma ma

 

dasan/raghavanvinod sv <winode_sv wrote:

SrI:SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:SrImAn adviteeya dixit ji,Thank you very much for the intent of your mail.Although your message suggests people to worshipSrImAn nArAyaNa alone in His divya mangaLa vigrahaform, in some places, it appears that explanation isinadequate. I put forward my opinions, and if anypoints are wrong, elders in the group can correct me. 1. your explanation of SrImad rAmAnuja's view on 4-11verse of bhagavad geeta...ye yatha mam prapadyantetams tathaiva bhajamy ahammama vartmanuvartantemanusyah partha sarvasahRamanuja bhashya...Whosoever desirous of resorting to me, in whatevermanner they think of me, according to theirinclinations and resort to me, in that manner, asdesired by them, I revel myself to them. i favor themin the

same way as wished by them.rAmAnuja further quotes that> Why say much here? Allmen who are intent on following Me do experience, withtheir own eyes and other organs of sense in all ways,i.e., in every way wished by them My form (includingimages), however inaccessible it might be to speachand the thought of the yOgins. By these further comments of rAmAnuja, we can inferthat rAmAnuja is not pointing to the forms of otherdeities super-imposed on SrImAn nArAyaNa, but His OWNFORMS including His archa vigrahAs. This includes allthe five types of SrImAn nArAyaNa's avatArAs. Anotherangle possible for the verse is that if one a developsa servitude relation, Lord becomes the master toaccept the services, if the devotee wants to to beconnected as a friend to the Lord, Lord becomes afriend....2. Your description of Sri annamAchArya's kIrtanaappears to be unrealistical extrapolation of

originalmessage...Entamatramuna evvaru dalachina antamatrame neevuantarantaramulenci chuda pindante nippati yendattlu//whatever one percieves you as, to them , You are thatHowever the dough is, so is the pancakeVaishnavas serve You with love as ?Vishnu?Vedantins call You the ?Para Brahman?Shaivaites and some devotees say You are ?Shiva?Kapalikas praise You as ?Adi Bhairava?!Shakteyas worship You as the ?Divine Sakti?Perceiving You in various ways, people worship You astheir thoughts runto those who take You as nothing, to them You arenothingTo the wise ones who take You as the superior most,You are the most magnificent!>>>> The original verse of SrI annamAchArya justpoints out that, 'depending on the amount of thesurrender of the devotee He makes Himself availableaccordingly, just like the quantity of dough decidesthe size of pancake'. The verse has nothing to do

withworship of other deities, or mistaking SrImAn nArAyaNato be siva or some one else. you repeated the sameverse again elsewhere in the mail with exactlyopposite view to your current view. Neverthless, Iwant to point it out clearly.3. yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktahsraddhayarcitum icchatitasya tasyacalam sraddhamtam eva vidadhamy ahamWhosoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform he desires, that form and faith I make steadfast.Ramanuja..."Whoever devotee seeks to worship with faith whateverform of mine, such as Indra etc, although not knowningthese divinities to be My forms alone, I stillconsider his faith as being directed to my ownmanifestation, and thereby make his faith steadfast,ie make it free from obstacles.>>>>> A small addition to the above extract, rAmAnujaexplicitly quotes sruti text in this 7.21 purport: 'Hewho dwelling in the sun,

whom the sun doesnot know,whose body is the sun' (Br.U. 3.7.9) to confirm, theseother divinities only form His body. Ramanujaelsewhere also mentions that all the names such asindra, siva,.... apply to Lord vishNu primarilybecause He is the antaryAmi of all of them. But theprimary thing to observe is that Lord vishNu isclearly different from siva and other demigods.Worshipping Siva may help a saivite because, Sivabeing a great devotee of SrImAn nArAyaNa imparts thedivine knowledge of great knowledge about thesupremacy of SrI hari to his devotee. But, one whomistakes SrI Hari to be Siva, is in much strangeposition, because He is doing bhagavat aparAdham,which is strongly condemned by vEdAs.4. So is it acceptable then, to worship the Lord inany form one desires? Yes, in a way, that only if the devotee knows thereality that all deities are different manifestationsof the one Parabrahman Narayana.

>>>> I believe that this answer helps the cause ofadvaitins and not sri vaishNavAs at all. This appearsto be a very anti-vedic answer. Because according topadma purANa, one of the most abonimable sins is toconsider other divinities to be same or superior toSrImAn nArAyaNa. The above opinions are the product of my limitedknowledge which is certainly inadequate todiscriminate truth from untruth. Hence, the elders ofthe group may correct me, if they find anyinconsistencies or shortcomings in my understanding. I am very happy that SrI adviteeya dixit ji isintended to propogate the divine outpourings of SrIannamAchArya who is a parama bhAgavata. I pray toSrImAn nArAyaNa to make this a successful endeavor ofdeexit ji. I apologise for any offense committed incomposing this mail.dAsOham, SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.

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