Fwd: [T'venkatam] Socrates: The vEdAntin of Athens -- #1

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---------- Forwarded message ----------sudarshan madabushi <mksudarshan2002

Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:48 PM[T'venkatam] Socrates: The " vEdAntin " of Athens -- #1tiruvenkatam

 

 

 

 

 

Read with an open and unprejudiced mind, the classic biography of the great Greek philosopher, Socrates (469-399 BC) written by his equally great disciple, Plato (427-347 BC), does tempt one to regard the great Master as a credible albeit alien exemplar of practical Vedanta. If Vedanta is timeless philosophy and universal creed, then in Socrates of Athens it shouldn't be difficult to see how Vedanta transcends both the geography and ethnicity of the world.

 

Very recently I read an old classic: "The Last Days of Socrates" written around 380 BC by Plato. It is a book in 4 parts ("Euthypro", "Apology", "Crito" and "Phaedo") and is an engrossingly vivid account of the last days of Socrates before he was sentenced to death (execution by drinking lethal hemlock) by a court of law in Athens for the alleged crime of impiety, spreading false and irreverent philosophy in society, corrupting the minds of youth and mocking the religious order of the state and the pantheon of Greek gods. Arraigned by a group of long-standing enemies comprising Athen's powerful politicians and noblemen, Socrates was tried in a public court and was hard-pressed to defend himself against trumped-up charges of "failing to acknowledge the city's gods, substituting his own private ones and undermining the moral fabric of the young".

 

Each part of the 4-part book is a narration of very thoughtful "dialogues" Socrates reportedly had with powerful enemies in court. The last "Phaedo" however is a dialogue with a group of his closest disciples in the prison-room days before his execution.

 

IN the first part, "Euthypro", the dialogue addresses the basic question: What is true Piety in a man? Why is it important for a man to be pious?

 

In the second part, "Apology", there is a verbatim account of Socrates's brilliant self-defense -- part judicial and part rhetorical but solemnly eloquent throughout in its tone of high moral authority -- in court against the charge of impiety leveled against him. In this famous "dialogue" Socrates also expatiated on the two ideals of "the Philosopher's life" and the pursuit of human Wisdom. The picture of the "Philosopher" Socrates painted bears striking resemblance indeed to the ideal Vedantic Man (the "gnyAni", the "dhIra" or "sthitha-pragnya") one comes across described in the Bhagavath-Gita.

 

In the third part, "Crito", Socrates counters the arguments of his closest friends in Athens who beseech him to slip away from the long arm of the Law in Athens and take asylum in nearby Macedonia. During the course of this "dialogue" with Crito, one of his dearest students, Socrates profoundly holds forth on what constitutes right and ethical human behavior. To a student of Vedanta the dialogue does seem remarkably reminiscent of the Hindu ideal of Dharma (righteous conduct) essayed voluminously in the pages Srimadh Valmiki Ramayana.

 

The last part, the "Phaedo", is a masterpiece of philosophic inquiry and one that is so delightfully redolent of the ancient Vedantic practice of "pari-prashna" alluded to by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavath-gita. In this famous "dialogue" with a band of close disciples that spent time with him during the days the Master languished in death-row awaiting the final day of execution, Socrates discoursed on a variety of philosophical themes. To a serious student of Vedanta, Socrates's thought-processes seem to be clear echoes of those expounded in the Bhagavath-Gita! There are glorious passages of penetrating thought in this dialogue that leaves the reader breathless with intellectual excitement. Socrates holds forth marvelously on a wide array of themes that we know are the staple of Greek philosophical tradition but which, again, are truly so closely evocative too of the more ancient tradition of Vedanta with its eternal quest into truths such as

 

 

(a) the immortality of the soul ("sankhya");

(b) the nature of Knowledge and the Self ("atma-gnyAna" or "atma-vichAra") © the nature of existential condition (Body-Soul schism or "sarira-sariri sambandha");

(d) the need to control the human senses ("indriyas") and conduct oneself according to the code of Dharma, a natural order or constitution of all existence

(e) the final liberation of the soul ("mukti" or "mOksha") and

(f) the ultimate purpose of life ("nissrEyasa-purushArtha").

 

In a series of weekly (Sunday) postings to the Tiruvenkatam Group List over the ensuing weeks, I will seek to present a brief study in comparison showing how the "Dialogues of Socrates" are indeed familiar echoes of the many concepts of Vedanta found in the Bhagavath-Gita. I wish to make it clear here that the purpose of my effort is not so much to argue that Socratic (or Greek) philosophic thought is Vedantic in character as to highlight rather that the Vedanta of ancient India, as a paradigm of philosophical outlook, was, continues and shall forever be universal.

 

**********************

 

Best Regards,

Sudarshan MK

 

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It is indeed a beautiful presentation -- comparing the thoughts of Scrates with that of Vedanta. It proves the fact that right thinking people always think similarly. Right thinking -- that is the basis. Morover, in ancient times there had been some sort of interaction between our land and Greece. Hence, it is no wonder for such similarity in thoughts of renowned thinkers, like Socrates and Plato. Such thought glows at times of crisis like facing death punishment. True thinkers do not fear death and they continue to think dispassionately. It is our luck that the thoughts of thinkers like Socrates are available to us, unlike ours as many of our vedantic works have been lost because of lack of due preservation. Many works in 'chuvadis' are still awaiting scholars to bring them to light. They may perhaps give us more insight into our siddhanta.

dAsan

anbil SrInivAsan--- On Sun, 14/12/08, आदिशेष à¤à¤¯à¥‡à¤‚गार <adisesh92 wrote:

आदिशेष à¤à¤¯à¥‡à¤‚गार <adisesh92 Fwd: [T'venkatam] Socrates: The "vEdAntin" of Athens -- #1"sailesh......... joined in srm" <saileshrjn, "sudha appu" <sudha.appu1, "prema seshadri. tholappa" <prema.seshadri1986, sridhar_govindaraja, "Happy Sri Rama Navami" <nagaraj.swaroop, "supraja suppy" <suppyalwayswidu, srivaaari, "Madhava Ramanuja Dasan" <satuluri.madhava, "off to Melkote for Vairamudi Seva......" <birdfrom7hills, "Paddy Sundaram End of Chapter 3" <padmanabhanmsec, "SAM - In Rishikesh till 11/05" <jsk.smishra, princesssreeja, "Aravind Gopalan: Vedanta DesikAt param nAsti"

<aravindtifr, "srihari parthasarathy" <sriharihindu, p.murali63, "Ahamasmi aparaadha chakravarthy" <premnath.jayakumar, "Periya perumal Periya piratiyar" <srimaantrust, "Ponnappan" <Oppiliappan >, sudarshanyd, "Raja Gopalan" <graciousrajSunday, 14 December, 2008, 2:45 PM

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------sudarshan madabushi <mksudarshan2002@ .co. in>Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:48 PM[T'venkatam] Socrates: The "vEdAntin" of Athens -- #1tiruvenkatam

 

 

 

 

Read with an open and unprejudiced mind, the classic biography of the great Greek philosopher, Socrates (469-399 BC) written by his equally great disciple, Plato (427-347 BC), does tempt one to regard the great Master as a credible albeit alien exemplar of practical Vedanta. If Vedanta is timeless philosophy and universal creed, then in Socrates of Athens it shouldn't be difficult to see how Vedanta transcends both the geography and ethnicity of the world.Very recently I read an old classic: "The Last Days of Socrates" written around 380 BC by Plato. It is a book in 4 parts ("Euthypro", "Apology", "Crito" and "Phaedo") and is an engrossingly vivid account of the last days of Socrates before he was sentenced to death (execution by drinking lethal hemlock) by a court of law in Athens for the alleged crime of impiety, spreading false and irreverent philosophy in society, corrupting the minds of youth and mocking the religious order of the

state and the pantheon of Greek gods. Arraigned by a group of long-standing enemies comprising Athen's powerful politicians and noblemen, Socrates was tried in a public court and was hard-pressed to defend himself against trumped-up charges of "failing to acknowledge the city's gods, substituting his own private ones and undermining the moral fabric of the young". Each part of the 4-part book is a narration of very thoughtful "dialogues" Socrates reportedly had with powerful enemies in court. The last "Phaedo" however is a dialogue with a group of his closest disciples in the prison-room days before his execution. IN the first part, "Euthypro", the dialogue addresses the basic question: What is true Piety in a man? Why is it important for a man to be pious? In the second part, "Apology", there is a verbatim account of Socrates's brilliant self-defense -- part judicial and part rhetorical but solemnly eloquent throughout in its

tone of high moral authority -- in court against the charge of impiety leveled against him. In this famous "dialogue" Socrates also expatiated on the two ideals of "the Philosopher' s life" and the pursuit of human Wisdom. The picture of the "Philosopher" Socrates painted bears striking resemblance indeed to the ideal Vedantic Man (the "gnyAni", the "dhIra" or "sthitha-pragnya" ) one comes across described in the Bhagavath-Gita. In the third part, "Crito", Socrates counters the arguments of his closest friends in Athens who beseech him to slip away from the long arm of the Law in Athens and take asylum in nearby Macedonia. During the course of this "dialogue" with Crito, one of his dearest students, Socrates profoundly holds forth on what constitutes right and ethical human behavior. To a student of Vedanta the dialogue does seem remarkably reminiscent of the Hindu ideal of Dharma (righteous conduct) essayed voluminously in the pages Srimadh

Valmiki Ramayana.The last part, the "Phaedo", is a masterpiece of philosophic inquiry and one that is so delightfully redolent of the ancient Vedantic practice of "pari-prashna" alluded to by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavath-gita. In this famous "dialogue" with a band of close disciples that spent time with him during the days the Master languished in death-row awaiting the final day of execution, Socrates discoursed on a variety of philosophical themes. To a serious student of Vedanta, Socrates's thought-processes seem to be clear echoes of those expounded in the Bhagavath-Gita! There are glorious passages of penetrating thought in this dialogue that leaves the reader breathless with intellectual excitement. Socrates holds forth marvelously on a wide array of themes that we know are the staple of Greek philosophical tradition but which, again, are truly so closely evocative too of the more ancient tradition of Vedanta with its eternal quest into

truths such as(a) the immortality of the soul ("sankhya"); (b) the nature of Knowledge and the Self ("atma-gnyAna" or "atma-vichAra" ) © the nature of existential condition (Body-Soul schism or "sarira-sariri sambandha"); (d) the need to control the human senses ("indriyas") and conduct oneself according to the code of Dharma, a natural order or constitution of all existence (e) the final liberation of the soul ("mukti" or "mOksha") and (f) the ultimate purpose of life ("nissrEyasa- purushArtha" ).In a series of weekly (Sunday) postings to the Tiruvenkatam Group List over the ensuing weeks, I will seek to present a brief study in comparison showing how the "Dialogues of Socrates" are indeed familiar echoes of the many concepts of Vedanta found in the Bhagavath-Gita. I wish to make it clear here that the purpose of my effort is not so much to argue that Socratic (or Greek) philosophic thought is Vedantic in character

as to highlight rather that the Vedanta of ancient India, as a paradigm of philosophical outlook, was, continues and shall forever be universal. ************ ********* *Best Regards,Sudarshan MKDid you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Go to http://in.webmessen ger.. com/-- Adisesh Iyengar+919908640675

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- srinivasan sowmianarayanan

Oppiliappan

Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:01 AM

Re: Fwd: [T'venkatam] Socrates: The "vEdAntin" of Athens -- #1

 

 

 

 

 

It is indeed a beautiful presentation -- comparing the thoughts of Scrates with that of Vedanta. It proves the fact that right thinking people always think similarly. Right thinking -- that is the basis. Morover, in ancient times there had been some sort of interaction between our land and Greece. Hence, it is no wonder for such similarity in thoughts of renowned thinkers, like Socrates and Plato. Such thought glows at times of crisis like facing death punishment. True thinkers do not fear death and they continue to think dispassionately. It is our luck that the thoughts of thinkers like Socrates are available to us, unlike ours as many of our vedantic works have been lost because of lack of due preservation. Many works in 'chuvadis' are still awaiting scholars to bring them to light. They may perhaps give us more insight into our siddhanta.

dAsan

anbil SrInivAsan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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