arulich cheyal anubhavam-1 - No question about it 'Santhai' is to be learnt and followed

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Swamins:There need not be any discussion about it.'Santhai' is to be learnt and followed.If during marriages some one or ten paasurams are not recited or sungaccording to santhai that does not mean ALL the paasurams can be recited like that.May be when you sing the paasuram that is allowed during the marriage ceremony.'Santhai' has been done for hundreds of years and just because in modern marriages itis not done does not give us permission to recite the rest 3989 passurams as we like.adiyenLakshmana dAsanraghunathan r <rraghunathan_inOppiliappan Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 3:27:26 AMRe: arulich cheyal anubhavam-1

 

Swamin.

 

I am absolutely in agreement that words in pasurams should be given proper sandhi and should not be broken in an absurd manner.

 

But what makes me wonder is as to how we practice and approve the way we break the words when we render "Varanam Ayiram". The tune with the broken words is really excellent but the looking into the words broken, it makes one cry. Just see :

 

Vaarana maayiram soozhava lamseithu

naarana nambina dakkinnaan nenretheir

poorana porkudam vaithuppu ramengum

thoranam nattakka naakkanden thozhinaan

 

I want to really know why such horrible breaking of words got approved and traditionally sung everywhere with no fingers raised even by most learned people.

 

And if such absurd breaking of words is allowed, then what is the harm in people interested in learning, do it by themselves, though it might result in some wrongful breaking of words?

 

Dasan

Raghunathan

--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Thirumalai Venkatesh <tvenkatesh55@ .co. in> wrote:

Thirumalai Venkatesh <tvenkatesh55@ .co. in>Re: arulich cheyal anubhavam-1OppiliappanSaturday, February 14, 2009, 7:54 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is very correctly stated that santhai method is very important. Of late, it has been found that many people who have abiding interest to do sevakalam, take books and start chanting even without formal santhai. It is a quite welcome sign that many people get interested in doing kainkaryams in the temple. But at the same time, there is a problem with regard to actual breaking of pasurams and many of them do break the stanzas very badly leading to an utter confusion. Such people may consider undergoing a formal santhai before using the book. This is my humbale suggestion.

 

T Venkatesh--- On Fri, 13/2/09, Padmanabhan <aazhwar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Padmanabhan <aazhwar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> arulich cheyal anubhavam-1"vanamamalai" <vanamamalai>, "Sri Ramanuja" <ramanuja@ s.com>, "oppiliappan" <oppiliappan>, "" < >, "divya desam" <>, "parichaya" <parichaya@grou ps.com>Friday, 13 February, 2009, 6:41 PM

 

 

 Arulich cheyal anubhavam

à®…à®°à¯à®³à®¿à®šà¯à®šà¯†à®¯à®²à¯ அனà¯à®ªà®µà®®à¯

 

When we chant arulich cheyal, due to various reasons, some of us , including myself, chant wrongly.

 

Basically, santhai method of learning is must to chant properly with splitting of words done propelry.

 

The learning process should be error-free. When the learning is with mistkaes, the mistake gets carride thorugh ones life.

 

This apart, the memory loss/lapse is another reason.

 

The lack of adequate knowledge of our classical divine tamil-செநà¯à®¤à®¿à®±à®¤à¯à®¤ தமிழ௠ஓசை -is another reason.

 

The slip of the tongue can be attirbuted when most experienced souls chant with error.

 

I have seen great stalwarts chant wrongly but reprimand themselves by hitting on their head with folded hands..

 

When a person chants with mistake, the fellow goshti mate correct it in a mild manner which is acknowledged with folded hands.

 

The chanting of AzvAr pAsuram-s without santhai coupled with lack of understaning leads to disaster and sometimes funny sounds.

 

SrivaishNavites brethern have narrated their experiecnes which is in lighter vein, but thought provoking in this regard.

 

Let us go into a few of these and share our experiences mutually

 

dasan

vanamamalai padmanabhan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

SwAmins, adiyEn would like to share with you all a fact which may not be known to many as we do not know the Tamil poetic grammar. adiyEn was also like others. But since adiyEn could see the 'pA ilakkaNam' in which these pAsurams are composed adiyen really realized the beauty of the pAsurams.

In particular, take the pAsuram of varaNamAyiram. These 11 pAsurams are composed in 'kaliviruththam' which has a particular seer formation. It consists of four seers in each line. each seer has certain number of letters according the definition of kaliviruththam.

It would look like splitting of words, but what is most important is 'Osai' which is special for this kalivirththam.

adiyEn tried to read the pAsram in accordance with the seer formation. The sound came out beautifully as it is sung during kalyaNa utsavams of the Lord in our temples and also in marriages in our families.

adiyEn got the idea that it might have been what our poorvAchArya, SrI NathamunikaL must have set these pAsrams to thALam and rAgam.

If anyone has done research on this point, we should get to know of the findings.

Old editions of Divya Prabandam mention the names of the PaN and thALam in which these pAsurams are set.

Some editions carry the modern equivalent to these RAgam and thALam.

The old tradition set by SrI NAthamunikaL must have been discontinued due to our incapacity to learn the santhai in which these pAsurams were sung in the temples in the past and in our homes. So, someone must have allowed them to be recited in the present way that is what we hear in temples now a days. It must have been only to facilitate more and more people to recite them without much difficulty. Now we find this also to be difficult to learn and recite.

However, if one listens to the Saiva thirumaRai pAsurams recited in Saiva temples by OthuvArs, it appears they have kept up the tradition in tact, while we have not. That is, if one sees without any prejudice, our misfortune. We have lost the tradition set by SrI NAthamunikaL, our foremost Acharya but for whom we would not have got this great treasure.

Hence, adiyEn's feeling is we should not give out our opinions without any proper study. One should find out the real position.

Regards,

dAsan

anbil SrInivAsan --- On Wed, 18/2/09, Gopaul Lakshmanan <geelakshman wrote:

Gopaul Lakshmanan <geelakshmanRe: arulich cheyal anubhavam-1 - No question about it 'Santhai' is to be learnt and followedOppiliappanDate: Wednesday, 18 February, 2009, 7:26 AM

 

 

 

Swamins:There need not be any discussion about it.'Santhai' is to be learnt and followed.If during marriages some one or ten paasurams are not recited or sungaccording to santhai that does not mean ALL the paasurams can be recited like that.May be when you sing the paasuram that is allowed during the marriage ceremony.'Santhai' has been done for hundreds of years and just because in modern marriages itis not done does not give us permission to recite the rest 3989 passurams as we like.adiyenLakshmana dAsan

 

 

 

raghunathan r <rraghunathan_ in >OppiliappanMonday, February 16, 2009 3:27:26 AMRe: arulich cheyal anubhavam-1

 

 

 

 

 

 

Swamin.

 

I am absolutely in agreement that words in pasurams should be given proper sandhi and should not be broken in an absurd manner.

 

But what makes me wonder is as to how we practice and approve the way we break the words when we render "Varanam Ayiram". The tune with the broken words is really excellent but the looking into the words broken, it makes one cry. Just see :

 

Vaarana maayiram soozhava lamseithu

naarana nambina dakkinnaan nenretheir

poorana porkudam vaithuppu ramengum

thoranam nattakka naakkanden thozhinaan

 

I want to really know why such horrible breaking of words got approved and traditionally sung everywhere with no fingers raised even by most learned people.

 

And if such absurd breaking of words is allowed, then what is the harm in people interested in learning, do it by themselves, though it might result in some wrongful breaking of words?

 

Dasan

Raghunathan

--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Thirumalai Venkatesh <tvenkatesh55@ .co. in> wrote:

Thirumalai Venkatesh <tvenkatesh55@ .co. in>Re: arulich cheyal anubhavam-1OppiliappanSaturday, February 14, 2009, 7:54 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is very correctly stated that santhai method is very important. Of late, it has been found that many people who have abiding interest to do sevakalam, take books and start chanting even without formal santhai. It is a quite welcome sign that many people get interested in doing kainkaryams in the temple. But at the same time, there is a problem with regard to actual breaking of pasurams and many of them do break the stanzas very badly leading to an utter confusion. Such people may consider undergoing a formal santhai before using the book. This is my humbale suggestion.

 

T Venkatesh--- On Fri, 13/2/09, Padmanabhan <aazhwar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Padmanabhan <aazhwar (AT) gmail (DOT) com> arulich cheyal anubhavam-1"vanamamalai" <vanamamalai>, "Sri Ramanuja" <ramanuja@ s.com>, "oppiliappan" <oppiliappan>, "" < >, "divya desam" <>, "parichaya" <parichaya@grou ps.com>Friday, 13 February, 2009, 6:41 PM

 

 

 Arulich cheyal anubhavam

à®…à®°à¯à®³à®¿à®šà¯à®šà¯†à®¯à®²à¯ அனà¯à®ªà®µà®®à¯

 

When we chant arulich cheyal, due to various reasons, some of us , including myself, chant wrongly.

 

Basically, santhai method of learning is must to chant properly with splitting of words done propelry.

 

The learning process should be error-free. When the learning is with mistkaes, the mistake gets carride thorugh ones life.

 

This apart, the memory loss/lapse is another reason.

 

The lack of adequate knowledge of our classical divine tamil-செநà¯à®¤à®¿à®±à®¤à¯à®¤ தமிழ௠ஓசை -is another reason.

 

The slip of the tongue can be attirbuted when most experienced souls chant with error.

 

I have seen great stalwarts chant wrongly but reprimand themselves by hitting on their head with folded hands...

 

When a person chants with mistake, the fellow goshti mate correct it in a mild manner which is acknowledged with folded hands.

 

The chanting of AzvAr pAsuram-s without santhai coupled with lack of understaning leads to disaster and sometimes funny sounds.

 

SrivaishNavites brethern have narrated their experiecnes which is in lighter vein, but thought provoking in this regard.

 

Let us go into a few of these and share our experiences mutually

 

dasan

vanamamalai padmanabhan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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