Illness and Karma.

[Guest guest]

I would like to have your opinion about the meaning of illness in the

life of Masters, Yogis, Saints, etc. They generally teach how to heal,

to recover from inner and/or outer desease, but they often fall

seriously ill. Are they completely burning their Karma in this way?

Or... what?

 

 

Maurizio

[Guest guest]

-

 

 

You know, come to think of it, I was going the way of letting go and

letting God and feeling the taking on of illness.

 

I've decided that although acceptance is grace or vice and versa and

both ways..heheh

 

There is no God in illness unless there is a pathway that you have

chosen and your path to the healer is through illness

 

They say (who is they) that Parmahansa Yogananda took on othe pwoples

karma and decided he would make concious exit at a time when he did

look a little swollen in the mid section-liver and even face.

 

I do not know how to put all this together except I bleieve there si

choice or some choice and I am not even clear the depth of that in

past lifetimes etc?

 

Can someone step in and give a " global " perspective?

 

 

 

 

-- In Kundaliniyoga , " Maurizio " <karaneeva wrote:

>

> I would like to have your opinion about the meaning of illness in the

> life of Masters, Yogis, Saints, etc. They generally teach how to heal,

> to recover from inner and/or outer desease, but they often fall

> seriously ill. Are they completely burning their Karma in this way?

> Or... what?

>

>

> Maurizio

>

[Guest guest]

I think that karma, " bad " karma, is not a sort of punishment, it is

instead something we have to learn about, an expedient of Life (God,

Absolute, Mystic Law etc.) when we don't understand in other ways:

through that we can expand our awareness. So I don't believe that

Masters would take on our bad karma: it would be like a teacher

learning lessons instead of his/her students! A Guru can teach you how

to learn and how to learn fruitfully, and quickly, avoiding obstacles

on the path of life. Therefore when a Master falls ill... maybe he has

to learn something too! He lives on this planet with a body, a mind,

to help others, yes, without any doubt, but at the same time he has

probably to grow like us. At a different level, but exactly like all

of us!

 

Isn't it? :-)

 

 

Maurizio

[Guest guest]

Maurizio

 

A master knows more than us what we need and a master might give you a

chance to experience life without karma so you see how you recreate it

yourself so you learn to take responsibility. There are examples of

this in the spiritual literature in particular Autobiography of a Yogi

by Yogananda.

 

Also it may sound from what you are saying that karma has to be lived

through completely to release it. Perhaps you know this but for our

readers, anyone can release their karma instantly. We simply need to

become conscious and release our judgments and other attachments to

our past... in other words: love ourself! Then karma no longer sticks

to us...

 

Blessings, Awtar Singh

[Guest guest]

Dear Awtar,

 

I am in doubt about the possibility to live without karma, because

karma means " action " and then - consequently - movement and life.

Nevertheless life is not only a deterministic chain of cause-effect,

action-reaction, and so on. There is a freedom aspect in the

deepness of existence, and that is probably what Masters try to

teach us: to be free from inner and outer conditioning aspects, in

other words from " Samsara " . This kind of liberation, they say, can

be gained just now, instantly, because it is beyond time-and-

becoming (that is Samsara, and karma in itself). I am definitely

agree, but if you live here where we all are, with a body and a

mind, with relationships, a job, etc., you MUST HAVE a karma, simply

because you ACT! I guess this: if we have released our attachments,

if we met love and consciousness, we are free from karma, yes, but

in the sense it is transformed, it has another meaning. We don't

accept it passively, but we understand it can be an instrument of

comprehension and change for us and help to others, and we can USE

it in this way.

 

Maurizio

 

 

 

Kundaliniyoga , " yogahs " <kundalini_yoga

wrote:

>

> Maurizio

>

> A master knows more than us what we need and a master might give

you a

> chance to experience life without karma so you see how you

recreate it

> yourself so you learn to take responsibility. There are examples of

> this in the spiritual literature in particular Autobiography of a

Yogi

> by Yogananda.

>

> Also it may sound from what you are saying that karma has to be

lived

> through completely to release it. Perhaps you know this but for our

> readers, anyone can release their karma instantly. We simply need

to

> become conscious and release our judgments and other attachments to

> our past... in other words: love ourself! Then karma no longer

sticks

> to us...

>

> Blessings, Awtar Singh

>

[Guest guest]

Kundaliniyoga , " Maurizio " <karaneeva wrote:

>

> Dear Awtar,

>

> I am in doubt about the possibility to live without karma, because

> karma means " action " and then - consequently - movement and life.

> Nevertheless life is not only a deterministic chain of cause-effect,

> action-reaction, and so on. There is a freedom aspect in the

> deepness of existence, and that is probably what Masters try to

> teach us: to be free from inner and outer conditioning aspects, in

> other words from " Samsara " . This kind of liberation, they say, can

> be gained just now, instantly, because it is beyond time-and-

> becoming (that is Samsara, and karma in itself). I am definitely

> agree, but if you live here where we all are, with a body and a

> mind, with relationships, a job, etc., you MUST HAVE a karma, simply

> because you ACT! I guess this: if we have released our attachments,

> if we met love and consciousness, we are free from karma, yes, but

> in the sense it is transformed, it has another meaning. We don't

> accept it passively, but we understand it can be an instrument of

> comprehension and change for us and help to others, and we can USE

> it in this way.

>

> Maurizio

>

> What a pertinent answer!you are quite wise ..

i have been reflecting myself on the pushing that is a little overly

being done at aiming for the sainthood kind of persona (in the yoga

practice ...especially in kundalini)...and the more I think ,the more

it looks so " la la land " unrealisric.

when I see what humans are going thru on this planet ,only the

priviledged in the rich countries, has the time to think that way .

Well,you do reflect when you are suffering but you are busier trying

to get out of problems which of course can use the help of some

spiritual training ; (which is what happenned to me ,from the bottom

,highter...)however one cannot push that too far as a far away

unreachable thing...

Sometimes, I compare what they do with the spiritual trip with what

they do with the glamour magazine : " you should look like so and so

etc...' and that plant the seeds of frustration even deeper .

so yes the ego etc...but please let us stay with a human balanced

perspective.

JIWAN JOT KAUR

[Guest guest]

It would seem you are talking about reacting, not acting. Quite different forms

of action.

Sat nam

Gurprasad k

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 

 

" Maurizio " <karaneeva

 

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:20:47

To:Kundaliniyoga

Kundalini Yoga Re: Illness and Karma.

 

 

Dear Awtar,

 

I am in doubt about the possibility to live without karma, because

karma means " action " and then - consequently - movement and life.

Nevertheless life is not only a deterministic chain of cause-effect,

action-reaction, and so on. There is a freedom aspect in the

deepness of existence, and that is probably what Masters try to

teach us: to be free from inner and outer conditioning aspects, in

other words from " Samsara " . This kind of liberation, they say, can

be gained just now, instantly, because it is beyond time-and-

becoming (that is Samsara, and karma in itself). I am definitely

agree, but if you live here where we all are, with a body and a

mind, with relationships, a job, etc., you MUST HAVE a karma, simply

because you ACT! I guess this: if we have released our attachments,

if we met love and consciousness, we are free from karma, yes, but

in the sense it is transformed, it has another meaning. We don't

accept it passively, but we understand it can be an instrument of

comprehension and change for us and help to others, and we can USE

it in this way.

 

Maurizio

 

Kundaliniyoga@ <Kundaliniyoga%40> ,

" yogahs " <kundalini_yoga

wrote:

>

> Maurizio

>

> A master knows more than us what we need and a master might give

you a

> chance to experience life without karma so you see how you

recreate it

> yourself so you learn to take responsibility. There are examples of

> this in the spiritual literature in particular Autobiography of a

Yogi

> by Yogananda.

>

> Also it may sound from what you are saying that karma has to be

lived

> through completely to release it. Perhaps you know this but for our

> readers, anyone can release their karma instantly. We simply need

to

> become conscious and release our judgments and other attachments to

> our past... in other words: love ourself! Then karma no longer

sticks

> to us...

>

> Blessings, Awtar Singh

>

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

karma is your life lesson so it involves reacting;it is part of action and

reaction!J.jk

 

lynn wrote: It would seem you are talking about reacting, not

acting. Quite different forms of action.

Sat nam

Gurprasad k

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Maurizio,

One way to approach this question is to try and understand that we

have different phases of energy, and cycles of intelligence as we get

older. There is a greater spiritual alignment, a greater love and

relation with Soul that one can know later in life that goes beyond

the impermanence of this body. Yes, take care of this earthen vessel

as well as we can but as we get older we start trusting the " home

office " a little more. We stop struggling so much as we come to accept

ourselves and others as they are, more so. With that comes an

embracing of the entire world with all of it's sadness and short

comings. The Buddha, some primal mother achetype and many great

teachers have these very round bellies. They have taken the whole

world into them out of Mother/Father Love. Yeah, I suppose they could

do a low carb diet and do long walks, but I think that they have just

come to do a lot more allowing.

That's my two cents, anyway.

 

By the way, the Eighth of the Ten Sikh Gurus, Guru Har Krishan died at

the the age of eight. He died because when one is in their innocense,

as he was(Pranic Body = Eight Body.....check it!), you take on

whatever is going on around you. He healed thousands of small pox in

Delhi before succumbing to the Karmic load himself. He didn't know how

to NOT care, and how to NOT give.

 

So, to try an answer your question, the idea of burning off all of

one's karma is linear thinking. How much good one does in their life

can and will offset whatever debts or un-finished business they have

on board. If not, I suppose we come back in some form to discharge

that situation.

 

Bless,

Dharam Singh

Millis, mA

 

Kundaliniyoga , " Maurizio " <karaneeva wrote:

>

> I would like to have your opinion about the meaning of illness in the

> life of Masters, Yogis, Saints, etc. They generally teach how to heal,

> to recover from inner and/or outer desease, but they often fall

> seriously ill. Are they completely burning their Karma in this way?

> Or... what?

>

>

> Maurizio

>

[Guest guest]

Karma is about consequences, not simply action or reaction.

 

When one acts in pure awareness, no karma is involved.

 

Awtar Singh

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

Karma seems to have many meanings or at least the term is used to mean different

things. Therefore, if one person is referring to one meaning and arguing his or

her case based on that meaning and another person is using another meaning and

making points based on that understanding, the discussion gets confusing.

Because it is!

 

The meaning of karma that I relate to refers to the law of cause and effect,

which is a universal phenomenon -- a law of physics. Every action has a

reaction. Without this energetic interaction, the universe would be inert.

Nothing would happen.

 

Our consciousness determines the effects of the causes that we put out. This

used to be a spiritual position. But it is now confirmed by physics.

 

The goal of yoga and meditation is to raise our consciousness so that our

" karma " is more positive. The purer our consciousness, our intentions and the

actions resulting from them, theoretically the better our changes of more

positive effects or " good karma " .

 

Of course, the problem is that a huge percentage of our reality -- personal,

collective and universal is unknown to us. Yogi Bhajan says 80% is unknown. I

think that is probably low. Whatever the percentage, we do not consciously know

all the factors that are impinging on our consciousness, our reality and our

actions.

 

We however do our best to keep cleaning up our act.

 

I think it is a good idea to approach the unknown 80 percent with gratitude,

humility, reverence and surrender. And then enjoy the unfoldment of our lives.

So much is so mysterious. But if we don't take it so serious (and try to

explain it all, which clogs our mind), rays of light shine through and

illuminate our way.

 

Sat Nam,

 

Guru Rattana

San Diego/Coronado

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam! Thank you all for your kind and interesting answers, and

thanks to Gururattan Kaur for the clarifying synthesis: it is true

that giving different and personal meanings to the word " karma " we

could fall in confusion. On the other hand, truth ever results from

the complexity of many unique and individual points of view, like a

prisma with thousand facets.

 

Reading your opinions I had a fantasy, I don't know how pregnant: I

guess that the Panj Shabd Meditation is a perfect representation of

our topic about karma: the cyclical four stages " infinite-birth-

death-rebirth " (Sa-Ta-Na-Ma) could point out the Samsara, the law of

cause-effect, the karma law, joined with " infinite " aspect of life.

Conditioned and unconditioned, in a simultaneous fusion that is " Sat

Nam " , the true identity. More: the sound " A " may be the omnipresent

level below and beyond the mind, that is life, that is… meditation!

 

Blessings,

 

Maurizio