How to pronounce mantras, western vs Indian style

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

the mantra resource on the KRI is great and is as said in another post

'free'.

 

As we know mantras are vibrations from the sound wave and thought wave

when focusing or chanting a mantra. Also physical point in the mouth

is stimulated from the touch of the toungue, and this is what I would

like to discuss. Indian people, and that should include most of

original sikhs and gurus, and also Yoga Bhajan do pronounce 'Nam' or

'Na' with the tip of the tounge touching the upper gum quite far in,

may be 2 cm (2/3 inch) from the front teeth where the gum turns

softer. You can test this by trying to talk with and Indian accent.

Most times I hear teacher or recordings of this though it's pronounced

like 'numb' minus the 'b', in the usual western fashion with the tip

of the tounge touching the front upper teeth. The sound and points

stimulated are distincly different. What can we gather from this? When

most kundalini yoga students chant mantras lose is a large part of the

benefits lost?

 

I have done Kirtan Kriya for a while now trying out the Indian accent

on especially 'Na' and this produces a special sensation in the gum.

 

This of course goes for a lot of the mantras. Any comments or light on

this?

 

Sat Nam Namasté

 

Jan-Eric

Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

this is also complicated by the fact that in Sanskrit

(and I'm assuming also in Gurmukhi - please correct me

if I am wrong!) there are 2 ways of saying " n " , 4 ways

of saying " d " , 4 ways of saying " t " , 2 ways of saying

" p " , 2 " sh " sounds, and 2 " ch " sounds. All of these

are specified by the written language, but when

transliterated to English, we usually don't get that

specific. I'm really interested in hearing from

someone who has studied Gurmukhi and/or Sanskrit in

depth. I'm always interested in correct

pronunciation. Also, if Yogi Bhajan mentioned how

important this precision is for a Westerner.

 

 

______________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Guest guest]

I have felt the vibration of the body when I chant the mantra ONG NAMO GURUDEV NAMO, mostly when I chant the ONG, cause it is like a gutural sound, the flow of energy is real strong. Sat Nam Aisha

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam. Yogiji encouraged us to learn Gurmukhi: the alphabet and the Guru's Word originally written in that script. Gurmukhi means " from the Guru's mouth. " He also encouraged us to learn modern Punjabi, which uses the Gumukhi script and is the language spoken and written in Punjab and by most Sikhs of Punjab or of Punjabi origin. There was no lack of emphasis there, and yes, he did emphasis the pronunciation. You can read more about it in the intro to " Psyche of the Soul " which is available from Ancient Healing Ways.

Yes, there are 4 nasal sounds, which includes " m. " They are articulated (1) in the throat, (2) on the roof of the mouth, (3) with the teeth, (4) with the lips. There are 4 " t's " and " d's " too. They are pronounced either on the roof of the mouth or with the teeth. The other distinction is that some are aspirated, meaning air rushes out of your mouth as you say it, and some are not. In this second case, you could put a mirror in from of your mouth and no mist would form.

In " Sa-Ta-Na-Ma " : " Ta " and " Na " are pronounced with the teeth, and " Ma " with the lips. For a pretty elaborate layout of various Indian scripts and how they hang together, you can go to:

http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/9594/index.htmlThe bottom line, is " Yes, it matters how you pronounce mantra. Ideally, you can learn Gurmukhi, where most of the mantras Yogiji gave us originated. Then you will be absolutely clear about which sound is articulated where. "

Guru Fatha Singhhttp://www.gurufathasingh.com

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

I'd like to add to Guru Fatha Singh's excellent response.

 

In addition to everything noted below, Yogi Bhajan also espoused

a 'fake it and you'll make it' approach to life. In terms of mantra

pronunciation, he wasn't expecting anyone to be perfect to start the

practice of any mantras or shabds. The idea is to practice the best

way you know how and know that the refinement will come with time. I

don't recall anything in Kundalini Yoga and in Yogi Bhajan's

teachings where he would say you shouldn't begin something until you

get it absolutely perfect. Start, practice and refine as you go

along. Practice it as you were taught by a good, solid teacher of

high integrity. Get the help and support that you need from reliable

sources.

 

And speaking of resources, I'm reminding us all that we now have two

wonderful resources that we didn't have until recently -- Santokh

Singh's recently released CD and Jagat Guru Singh's pronunciation of

mantras on the kriteachings.org website. I haven't heard Santokh

Singh's yet -- but he's a great teacher and good friend and I know he

created the CD with great integrity. Jagat Guru's pronunciation is

excellent as he has studied raag kirtan in India for many years and

speaks Punjabi very well, if not fluently.

 

Once a friend explained to me that Yogi Bhajan was a 'miner of

talent'. He would see some spark of a particular talent in someone

and would give them an assignment that would thoroughly stretch them

beyond any perceived limitations they may have had. Through the

process of delivering the project, you would find mastery -- or at

least bust out of whatever box you were in. He once told me " Your

problem is that you perceive yourself as limited. My problem is that

I know you are not. " So the point is, mastery will come with

conscientious practice...you don't have to have the mastery to start.

 

Many blessings to you all,

 

Dev Suroop Kaur, Espanola

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa "

<gurufathasingh wrote:

>

> Sat Nam. Yogiji encouraged us to learn Gurmukhi: the alphabet and

the

> Guru's Word originally written in that script. Gurmukhi

means " from the

> Guru's mouth. " He also encouraged us to learn modern Punjabi,

which uses

> the Gumukhi script and is the language spoken and written in Punjab

and by

> most Sikhs of Punjab or of Punjabi origin. There was no lack of

emphasis

> there, and yes, he did emphasis the pronunciation. You can read

more about

> it in the intro to " Psyche of the Soul " which is available from

Ancient

> Healing Ways.

>

> Yes, there are 4 nasal sounds, which includes " m. " They are

articulated (1)

> in the throat, (2) on the roof of the mouth, (3) with the teeth,

(4) with

> the lips. There are 4 " t's " and " d's " too. They are pronounced

either on

> the roof of the mouth or with the teeth. The other distinction is

that some

> are aspirated, meaning air rushes out of your mouth as you say it,

and some

> are not. In this second case, you could put a mirror in from of

your mouth

> and no mist would form.

>

> In " Sa-Ta-Na-Ma " : " Ta " and " Na " are pronounced with the teeth,

and " Ma " with

> the lips. For a pretty elaborate layout of various Indian scripts

and how

> they hang together, you can go to:

> http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/9594/index.html

>

> The bottom line, is " Yes, it matters how you pronounce mantra.

Ideally, you

> can learn Gurmukhi, where most of the mantras Yogiji gave us

originated.

> Then you will be absolutely clear about which sound is articulated

where. "

>

> Guru Fatha Singh

> http://www.gurufathasingh.com

>

[Guest guest]

Guru Fatha Singh,

Thank you. What a great site! I will investigate

this further.

One difficulty is that, at least in the KY materials

I've come across, the transliterations aren't really

precise. It's easy to find Sanskrit transliterations

that indicate whether a t or d is palatal or dental,

and aspirated or not, but this doesn't seem to be the

case for Gurmukhi. Do you know of any resources

(especially online) with accurate transliterations of

Gurmukhi mantras? Or even with a variety of mantras

written in the Gurmukhi script? I think a while ago I

was looking for the re man shabd in Gurmukhi script,

so I could figure out all the subtleties of

pronunciation, but I couldn't find it. also - ad

gureh nameh, jugaad gureh nameh, etc. . . are those

d's palatal or dental? You're right, it makes such a

difference!

Thanks

Ardas

 

 

______________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, Ardas Singh - I suspect the next generation of KRI material may use the Gurmukhi script. Perhaps you will have a role in it. The " Re man " shabad starts on line 11, page 1344 of Dasam Granth Jee. You will find it here: http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=dasam_granth & action=pagebypage & page=1344.The " d's " in " Ad guray nameh... " are all dental.

Guru Fatha Singhhttp://www.gurufathasingh.com

[Guest guest]

Thank You Guru Fatha Singh!

Great. For some reason, though, I can't seem to get

the urdu font to work. I downloaded u-font.exe from

the gurbani website, but I can't seem to open it. It

says I don't have a default program to open that type

of file, so I don't know what program to use to open

it. I have Mac Os X. Do you have any ideas?

As far as KRI using the Gurmukhi script - that would

be great, and along with it, they could use a more

precise, elegant, standardized system of

transliteration along with it - like you often see in

transliterated Sanskrit. I remember when I first

learned the correct way of saying " om namah shivaya "

and it really made me realize the power of correct

pronunciation of these vibrational languages!

Sat Nam

Ardas Singh

 

 

______________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ