Guest guest Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 sat nam the word in gurumukhi that gets translated as sin is 'paap' the literal breakdown of the word is: pa - get/obtain aap - for self so the teaching is simply a reminder that whenever we 'get for self' this is a karmic behaviour rather than dharmic. there is no question of sin or blame. just the law of cause and effect. the consequences of 'getting for self' are different than the consequences of 'giving for others'. and though there is no one to blame anyone we are responsible for the consequences of our own choices. blessings to all shiv charan singh london, UK www.karamkriya.co.uk www.karamkriya.euIn 2008 the dam is open: all that was held back floods through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 huh? scs <shivasfeetKundalini-Yoga Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:28:57 AM sin - no sin sat nam the word in gurumukhi that gets translated as sin is 'paap' the literal breakdown of the word is: pa - get/obtain aap - for self so the teaching is simply a reminder that whenever we 'get for self' this is a karmic behaviour rather than dharmic. there is no question of sin or blame. just the law of cause and effect. the consequences of 'getting for self' are different than the consequences of 'giving for others'. and though there is no one to blame anyone we are responsible for the consequences of our own choices. blessings to all shiv charan singh london, UK www.karamkriya. co.uk www.karamkriya. euIn 2008 the dam is open: all that was held back floods through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 "Huh"? what is "huh? Is there a translation? ) Can You elaborate? Shiv Charan was speaking of a word I recognize from reciting Japji Sahib. You can Google it. or even Youtube it. It's better to just recite it and feel it ) Direct experience, by far, the best teacher. Japji is very cool to do, and a very advanced technology for balancing the relation between Head and Heart, and for setting our perception and experience of the Ether element, and if the Ether ain't right, then we're in, or at least headin' for, trouble on some other level. Take a listen to it or read the full translation at or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q7AJM3ml_E & feature=related Ek Ong Kaar Kaur spoke a bit about "paap" when she came through here in early March. She Blessings all Around, Dharam Singh Millis, MA AnjiePanjie Burton wrote: huh? ----- Original Message ---- scs <shivasfeet Kundalini-Yoga Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:28:57 AM sin - no sin sat nam the word in gurumukhi that gets translated as sin is 'paap' the literal breakdown of the word is: pa - get/obtain aap - for self so the teaching is simply a reminder that whenever we 'get for self' this is a karmic behaviour rather than dharmic. there is no question of sin or blame. just the law of cause and effect. the consequences of 'getting for self' are different than the consequences of 'giving for others'. and though there is no one to blame anyone we are responsible for the consequences of our own choices. blessings to all shiv charan singh london, UK www.karamkriya. co.uk www.karamkriya. eu In 2008 the dam is open: all that was held back floods through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Sat Nam... Shiv Charn SIngh says " we are responsible for the choices we make " , but really " who makes rhe choice? " . According to Guru Naanak himself Ik Ong Kar is also Karta Purkh - Doer of everything. Vedanta cosmology, philosophical basis of Naanak's concepts, says that all that was, is and will be is already contained in Chitta, the universal mind. Thoughts, which originate action, come into the mind from Chitta. So again " who chooses? " . Choice is an illusion of the ego that believes itself to be the doer, rather than the knowledge that Karta Purkh is making it ALL happen. So the concept of sin is a moot one. If " paap " does mean " obtain to self " then it is rooted in the sense of self-doership. But if we are not the doer, what responsability is there? That is only the ego judging the happening and triggering in us the sense of guilt, blame and/or shame. Supreme consciousness doesn't take days off...either IT is the Doer or it isn't. " Send all claims to the Manufacturer. " But then again these are all concepts, managed by our egos to attemp understanding. Truth is uncontainable, unexplainable, unfathomable, unattainable... Truth IS. Meanwhile life happens and we live it. Wahe Guru... Blessings, Gurudass Khalsa gurudass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Sat Nam Very well stated. Just a little bit on tracing the root of Nanak's concepts No where Nanak proclaims that Gursabad has any philosophical basis on Vedanta cosmology, It is ego which reads/recollects/reframes/associates/analyze/narrows down etc these terms to understanding which is ego too The one who is born and one who dies is the ego only. Pure Bliss of Gursabad/ GurNanak is experienced by Listening to, Agreeing to and Surrendering/losing the ego in the process of Listening/Agreeing/Loving, where all ego gets burnt by the Gursabad automatically( Haumay Sabad Jalaaye) and Pure Bliss of aapay aap niranjan soaye, The one Karta Purakh Only Blesses as you have already very beautifully explained. With Prayers Charan Singh Oshawa, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 sat nam thanks for the great and humbling reminder that there is only one doer - karta purkh. i wonder how such a perspective of gurbani explains guru naanak's apparent instruction to do jap especially if we have no choice and also i wonder about yogi bhajan's invitation to commitment as the first step to happiness perhaps you can help out perhaps there is a relation between god the only doer, and one of his deeds beinf to give us choice. even if there really is only one choice blessings scs www.karamkriya.co.uk www.karamkriya.euIn 2008 the dam is open: all that was held back floods through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Sat Nam Understanding Kartpurakh as one expands to What Guru says, What Yogi Ji says, and that we have a choice.....are all correct. The only differentiation comes when measuring rod of time and space is used. How useful is it to carry a primary book on how to write a, b,c when advancing /developing/understanding ( in time and space) guides on how to make words with these alphabets. Gurparsad is following all the times ( timeless) on all.... fine tune ( loving) burns the ego/ breaks the illusion that there is no choice with timeless ( Akal) the final destination and purpose to all.Choices exist only in time and space there after everything straightens as one With Prayers Charan Singh Oshawa, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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