Maya and Kundalini

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the reading suggestion. I have read Campbell. Many

contemporary scholars of myth, myth theory, anthropology of myth and

mythology are very skeptical of Campbell's teleological and

universalist theories. Like Frazer's 19th century theories Cambpell

has largely been dismissed by many scholars- perhaps this dismissal is

not appropriate, but please read some critiques of Campbell before you

decide if you will accept his theories. Some suggestions of critiques

of Campbell include, " The power of choice: a critique of Joseph

Campbell's " monomyth, " Northrop Frye's theory of myth, Mark Twain's

orthodoxy to heresy, and C.G. Jung's God-image. " by Druscilla French,

" " Pluralistic Monism " by James R. Kincaid in Critical Inquiry, Vol. 4,

No. 4 (Summer, 1978), pp. 839-845. You can also look at Robert Segal's

" Joseph Campbell: An Introduction " or his " Theorizing About Myth. " In

both books, Segal examines the logical inconsistencies of Campbell's

approaches towards myth and places his theories in the context of

other earlier theorists who proposed similar narrative models. The

main problem with these universalist theories is that they undermine

other less monolithic and more personal/ culturally specific

interpretations. Moreover, Campbell is not an expert in the Maya and

does not read Maya glyphs- I do not think, for myself, that I can use

Campbell as a reliable source on the ancient Maya. If there is another

source on Kundalini and the Maya I am genuinely interested.

I wonder why my questions/posts have met with hostility and sarcasm?

Please know I am only trying to make honest inquiries and have no

intention of harm. All of my posts have been made with an intentionof

utmost sincerity and respect. I have no intention of offending anyone.

I think the important question that is at the root of all of this

debate/dialog is whether Kundalini technology is a human universal or

if it developed in a culturallly specific time/place. The reason why

this is a volitile subject is that if KY is culturally specific

instead of universal then it becomes A path instead of THE ONLY/ BEST

path. You can see where this debate leads- if, by whatever means,

yogis can prove that KY technology is a human universal then, just

like the rhetoric spewed by fundamentalist representatives of Islam,

Christianity, or Buddhism, it becomes the best and only path to God!

Look at the destruction of the Buddhas by fundamentalist Islam- that

act was an attempt to destroy the history of Buddhism in Afganistan-

and to rewrite this history with an ancient Islamic history. We may

not see our rewriting of world history to support our theories of

Kundalini in the same light- but in writing/reading/beleiving/teaching

a Kundalini mono-narrative we over-write all the cultural and oral

histories that conflict with our monolithic Kundalini narrative.

I certainly do not have the resources of the UC at my fingertips- but

if there is genuine interest I can try to arrange a one day conference

on cross-cultural indications of Kundalini technology. I simply

suggested this as a venue as a helpful response to Krishna Singh's

declaration of his strength in debate.

Blessings and love,

justine (Charanpreet Kaur)

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Justine, for proving an earlier post of mine that when it

comes to ancient history, DISAGREEMENT is the rule. You can't name a

so-called expert who doesn't have detractors. Although it seems that

Joseph Campbell does have some support out there:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell.

 

And regarding the threat you attach to discussing trends that cross

time and distance, it's hard to fathom that the making of some

conclusion based on similarities among cultures will somehow silence

the local cultures' ability to decide its own individual nature and

history.

 

Finally, it's kinda hard to see how the posting by folks at this

of similarities among cultures can be equated with the

pushing of some World Religion like Christianity or Islam. If Joseph

Campbell finds the Tree of Life in Sumeria, India, Egypt, Greece and

ancient Mexico, does that mean that he's pushing a Kundalini world

religion? Or does it mean that he's just seeing mythological

similarities, that could give color to the innate strivings of

mankind? Perhaps there's some making of mountains out of molehills

here.

 

Given all the internecine fights among so-called experts or alleged

mavericks, perhaps we should let individuals follow the Aquarian path

of doing their own exploring, weighing the arguments of all sides.

To start with Campbell and the Mayans, here's a production that could

merit attention: http://www.gemstone-av.com/HCmanpaths.htm.

 

To keep quiet unless ones thoughts are approved by so-called experts

seems to me a hierarchical dynamic more appropriate to the dying

Piscean Age. Indeed, the worship of scientism has its downside,

including a leading to a stultifying conformity:

 

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/supress1.html.

 

This smothering trend can lead to terrible results, such as what's

happening in how we sustain ourselves with food, nutrients and

therapies. There's an agency in the federal government, for example,

that is forbidding claims by supplement manufacturers unless a

majority of scientists agree on the claim. So all a Big Pharma

company has to do is get an influential minority of scientists to

dismiss a legitimate claim of some manufacturer's, and the consumer

of that product will no longer have legal access to it.

 

In the same way so-called experts gang up on a maverick, dismissing

his or her findings, leading to a tacit suppression of evidence that

conflicts with the accepted majority's. Just look at Hawas, the

dictatorial controller of Egyptian research. Look at the ferocious

undercutting of the sage whom Krishna personally has known for

years. Keep in mind that Copernicus was ridiculed until he was

proven right, as was Galileo, Bell, and most other inventors in

history. Let's be cautious about signing up with so-called Experts.

 

We humans deserve better than this, and a tolerance for differing

viewpoints seems advisable to encourage more exploration, and less

conformity.

 

Blessings,

Amar Atma

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " charanpreet7 "

<justinelemos wrote:

>

" ...Many

> contemporary scholars of myth, myth theory, anthropology of myth and

> mythology are very skeptical of Campbell's teleological and

> universalist theories... "

 

" ...in writing/reading/beleiving/teaching

> a Kundalini mono-narrative we over-write all the cultural and oral

> histories that conflict with our monolithic Kundalini narrative... "

[Guest guest]

Dear Amar Atma,

 

I am one of the PhD team at work with Justine. LOL

 

Actually I am working on my PHD in depth psychology and Joseph

Campbell's archives are home where I go to school. Campbell like Jung

finds references to something like Kundalini in many cutlures and

civilizations. Yet none of them would go so far as to say that they

all had the same practices surrounding this phenomena. It seems like

most cultures have had body oriented 'magicks' and that yoga is one

form and of course the pheneomena of an energy moving serpentlike up

the spine is found in many of them but not all. For example China

does not mention a Kundalini in many Taoist Yoga practices. Be that

as it may I think there is a real experience that many peoples have

discovered again and again in similar ways. This is very different

than saying Kundalini Yoga (as we practice it) has been around for

millenia and is even found on Mayan culture!

 

Love

Scott

 

P.S. - I sense a tone of disrespect in your email to Justine, am I

correct? If so I hope it doesn't go by unnoticed.

[Guest guest]

Scott,

 

There's plenty of argument in the exchange of information, so we don't

need to read minds and allege disrespect or issue hopes that " it

doesn't go unnoticed " .

 

Other than that, I'm glad to have your confirmation of the worldwide

phenomenon of the kundalini (rising creative energy) in

ancient cultures. While one sage of Mayan descent said the Mayans have

a word for kundalini, " K'ULTHANLILNI " , you make a very good point -

with which I haven't seen any disagreement thus far - that no one can

say whether the Mayans practiced kundalini yoga (certainly not as

taught by Yogi Bhajan). (Although another well known 3HO yogi has

commented on seeing yoga poses in some Mayan ruins, so one could put

two and two together).

 

Let's just say as the Aquarian Age upsets the acceptable status quo

among so-called experts, it will be interesting to see the bright line

for acceptability move. So I think tolerance is very much in order, as

nonmainstream researchers offer their experience to the rest of us,

within or without this - and as PhDs break new ground to

find evidence for what so many feel while lacking objective backing

(witness Dharma Khalsa's amazing work at UPenn showing meditation

helping Alheimers patients, e.g.).

 

As you explore the archives of the eminent Joseph Campbell and delve

deeper into your PhD studies, your posts will contine to be most

welcome.

 

Blessings,

Amar Atma

[Guest guest]

Sat nam to all

 

I have been following this very interesting debate, what I am most Facinated by

is all the

quoting of this expert and that expert and at the end of the day they are all

just opinions

and we all know what opinions are like .... every body has one.

 

Lets be very clear here Kundalini doesnt belong to just one culture on the

planet you WILL

find reference to it in just about every acenint culture. it may not be called

Kundalini but if

you read carefully it is there.

 

I am one who has had a spontaneous awakening with out any yoga practice prior

to. So

there are many ways to rasie the Kundalini as well. so to go looking threw the

mayan or

any other culture for YOGA of any kind as to a way to rasie the K is well mute

as there is

not one way to god there is not just one way to rasie the kundalini.

 

What I would love to hear about is YOUR PERSONAL expereince of kundalini the

serpent

power energy. The past is the Past... Kundalini belongs to ALL that my frinds is

the

Aquarian age

 

 

sat nam

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " C. F. " <cfroh wrote:

>

> Scott,

>

> There's plenty of argument in the exchange of information, so we don't

> need to read minds and allege disrespect or issue hopes that " it

> doesn't go unnoticed " .

>

> Other than that, I'm glad to have your confirmation of the worldwide

> phenomenon of the kundalini (rising creative energy) in

> ancient cultures. While one sage of Mayan descent said the Mayans have

> a word for kundalini, " K'ULTHANLILNI " , you make a very good point -

> with which I haven't seen any disagreement thus far - that no one can

> say whether the Mayans practiced kundalini yoga (certainly not as

> taught by Yogi Bhajan). (Although another well known 3HO yogi has

> commented on seeing yoga poses in some Mayan ruins, so one could put

> two and two together).

>

> Let's just say as the Aquarian Age upsets the acceptable status quo

> among so-called experts, it will be interesting to see the bright line

> for acceptability move. So I think tolerance is very much in order, as

> nonmainstream researchers offer their experience to the rest of us,

> within or without this - and as PhDs break new ground to

> find evidence for what so many feel while lacking objective backing

> (witness Dharma Khalsa's amazing work at UPenn showing meditation

> helping Alheimers patients, e.g.).

>

> As you explore the archives of the eminent Joseph Campbell and delve

> deeper into your PhD studies, your posts will contine to be most

> welcome.

>

> Blessings,

> Amar Atma

>

[Guest guest]

Going back to Justine's and Krishna's original post, which I am grateful that

they both

started...the first thoughts to my mind were: " what experts do I believe " and

" how or why

does it matter to my personal practice of Kundalini Yoga and Sikh Dharma.

 

On the one hand I am totally interested in the truth about what happened and the

relationship...but sometimes its doesn't transform/move me along as much as

doing a simple

something for others or myself as it relates to the " practice " of Kundalini Yoga

or Sikh

Dharma.

 

Although we live in a world of " experts-proof-certification, etc. etc. even in

Kundalini Yoga

so I also wonder what will be our perspective-relationship with the experts of

information " in

the Aquarian Age..

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree that the most important aspect of the practice is

not its roots or longevity but how we put it to use in daily life. I

also wonder about authority/expertise in the Aquarian age. I do feel

that experience gives some sort of expertise or authority and

certainly many experts have experience- even the academic ones! For

instance, I cannot read Maya iconography, just as I can not read

ancient Chinese. I would always allow that someone who can read

ancient Chinese or ancient Maya has more experience and therefore more

authority that I do about the subject. I do think that some so-called

experts, even in the Aquarian Age will have more knowlege than others.

Therefore, when it comes to ancient Maya history, I (for myself) will

trust those scholars and experts who can read ancient Maya language

over those who do not read the gylphs fluently. Thank you for such an

invigorating conversation.

Sat Nam

justine

Kundalini-Yoga , " satganesha " <satganes wrote:

>

> Going back to Justine's and Krishna's original post, which I am

grateful that they both

> started...the first thoughts to my mind were: " what experts do I

believe " and " how or why

> does it matter to my personal practice of Kundalini Yoga and Sikh

Dharma.

>

> On the one hand I am totally interested in the truth about what

happened and the

> relationship...but sometimes its doesn't transform/move me along as

much as doing a simple

> something for others or myself as it relates to the " practice " of

Kundalini Yoga or Sikh

> Dharma.

>

> Although we live in a world of " experts-proof-certification, etc.

etc. even in Kundalini Yoga

> so I also wonder what will be our perspective-relationship with the

experts of information " in

> the Aquarian Age..

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that Kundalini does not belong to one culture. I do think

that raising the Kundalini and Kundlini awakening was /is used in

many cultures. However, the object is not just to raise the

Kundalini but to control it. I think it is safe to say that

Kundalini Yoga is the only way to safely do this unless one has a

realized teacher. KY as taught by YB gives the technology to do

this. There are countless references in all cultures to people

raising their Kundalini. YB said it is easy to raise but hard to

bring down (0r something like this).

 

GuruBandhu

> Lets be very clear here Kundalini doesnt belong to just one culture

on the planet you WILL

> find reference to it in just about every acenint culture. it may

not be called Kundalini but if

> you read carefully it is there.

>

> I am one who has had a spontaneous awakening with out any yoga

practice prior to. So

> there are many ways to rasie the Kundalini as well. so to go

looking threw the mayan or

> any other culture for YOGA of any kind as to a way to rasie the K

is well mute as there is

> not one way to god there is not just one way to rasie the kundalini.

[Guest guest]

You know I think people have to agree to disagree, and each honor their

own path.

 

I think that experential knowledge is definetly a source of Author-ity

as much as scholarship is, and that there is also a kind of

metaphorical or mytho-poeic knowledge that makes connections in ways

different than linear scholarship. I think its important for some of us

that care (not every does!) to differentiate the three otherwise we get

all confused and that's where I see 'science' debunking' a lot of good

knowlege that is just simply a different type of knowledge than

wester 'science' acknowledges.

 

I believe that Jung discovered the phenomena of Kundalini all over the

world, even in Egypt. But of course that doesn't mean that egyptian's,

mayans and sri baba chand knew each other, it simply means truth and

knoweldge find a way of emerging over many diverse traditions. I think

a scholarly approach might look for other bits of information and

ignore intuitive sources, which is fine and an experential apprach,

well is all over the map in what wonderful myths and realities we can

experience (which is ok too). I think its important to not overvalue

any form of knoweldge other than that which transforms YOU and to not

sweat the small stuff (like whethere the mayans really had a kundalini,

did kumdalini yoga, or we just imagine it and it makes a nice story).

For, me, its doesn't matter.

 

Sat Nam

Scott

[Guest guest]

It would be nice for us to have some direction as to where in Joseph

Campbell's writings this information lies. He was a prolific writer!

 

Which books, any specific lectures. I know Jung did some Kundalini

lectures which were wonderful.

Ek Ong Kar Singh

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " C. F. " <cfroh wrote:

>

> Justine asked:

>

> " ...Is there any evidence, epigraphical, iconographical, textual or

> oral history from a Maya source, that gives evidence of Kundalini

in

> ancient Maya or contemporary Maya tradition beyond what is given to

> us by Hunbatz Men?... "

>

> My answer:

>

> If you read the original post, which was about the famous

mythologist

> Joseph Campbell finding " kundalini " in almost all cultures, you

could

> easily find in several of his books that he discusses the serpent

> power of the kundalini (one's innate creativity) rising along the

> Tree of Life (the spine) - even in Mayan culture.

>

> So, the answer is yes, there are experts other than the one you

> mention, who find kundalini in the Mayan civilization.

>

> With all the prowess at your disposal at the University of

> California, perhaps your team of PhDs and professors can examine

Mr.

> Campbell's findings and report back to the .

>

> Blessings,

> Amar Atma

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

I really think that what matters is our experience. Its what is most

important but everything is varying in importance to all of us.

 

As a Jungian oriented therapist and a practioner of Western Mysteries

I am happy to see all the stories and histories as valuable

mythologies that transmit truisms and teachings, as well as

connections that don't have to be literal to be real, valid and true

for me.

 

Blessings

Scott

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " satganesha " <satganes

wrote:

>

> Going back to Justine's and Krishna's original post, which I am

grateful that they both

> started...the first thoughts to my mind were: " what experts do I

believe " and " how or why

> does it matter to my personal practice of Kundalini Yoga and Sikh

Dharma.

>

> On the one hand I am totally interested in the truth about what

happened and the

> relationship...but sometimes its doesn't transform/move me along as

much as doing a simple

> something for others or myself as it relates to the " practice " of

Kundalini Yoga or Sikh

> Dharma.

>

> Although we live in a world of " experts-proof-certification, etc.

etc. even in Kundalini Yoga

> so I also wonder what will be our perspective-relationship with the

experts of information " in

> the Aquarian Age..

>

[Guest guest]

I agree we need to tolerate different sources of knowlege and

information especially since they are so easily dismissed by the status

quo. I enjoyed your words about that.

 

Still, I do think its important for all of us to not tolerate dogmatism

that uses the word 'slander' to denote asking questions, even if it may

seem rude or whatever (no intention to point fingers). I think it's

important for all of us to have greater tolerance in our battling

during this emerging New Age. I don't think any of us have all the

answers and I always enjoy teacher's who advocate asking questions to

those who don't.

 

Sat Nam

Scott

[Guest guest]

It will take some time to find the passage in the Joseph Campbell books

I have, if I even have the relevant book (Masks of God?) anymore. It's

a pretty famous passage about which many are familiar, since Campbell

is such a universally revered and respected myth scholar. As I recall

from the passage, Campbell was saying some cultures have the Tree of

Life (the spine, up which travels the serpentine kundalini creative

energy), with serpentine roots at the bottom, with (lotus?) fruit on

top for some cultures, other cultures with lotus flowers on top, and

others with birds. And he definitely included in the ancient culture

mix the Mayan Civilization. His conclusion, somewhat obvious, is that

most, if not all, mother civilizations shared this kundalini experience

of raising ones innate creative energy to unite with some higher power

or metareality. Perhaps others with better memory of their Campbell

readings can elucidate.

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Scott " <scott wrote:

>

> It would be nice for us to have some direction as to where in Joseph

> Campbell's writings this information lies. He was a prolific writer!

>

> Which books, any specific lectures. I know Jung did some Kundalini

> lectures which were wonderful.

> Ek Ong Kar Singh

[Guest guest]

Synchronistically I have been reading " Africa in my Bones " a story

about an African Shaman and MD. He talks about the Numen and the

Ubilini as key to accesing the cosmic world and the power of healing

and astral travel. He says they raise Kudalini through song and dance

and relates the above to terms with Ki, Kundalini, Ruach and other

energy terms. It is quite an amazing connection, he really hits the

root of the essential connection, allowing differing technologies to

have a different view of the same or similar phenomena. I know Chinese

medicine doesn't have the idea of a raising kundalni but I am sure in

Taoist yoga the balacning of energies equates to the same goal.

 

Sat Nam

Scott