Yogi Bhajan alleged to have supported War in Iraq ?

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that Yogi

Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse

Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse.

 

I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're

wrong.

 

Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary for

you to " show the bread " in this issue, and not just allude to the hot

aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

 

I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to " show me " on this one.

 

Krishna Singh

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa "

<michael.telanoff wrote:

>

> Of course, and I apologize for straying off this line. It is a

good rule.

>

> However, Yogi Bhajan's vision was extremely political, so it is

> difficult to know where to draw the line. For example, his vision

of

> " Long Time Sun " was a time in the future when yogis are being put

> against a firing line for opposition to corrupt forces in power, and

> they are singing " Long Time Sun " as they are shot. That's pretty

> political.

>

> He also came out strongly in favor of the Iraq War during public

> speeches, and also publicly said that he would leave the country if

> Bush was elected in 2000. He definitely publicly picked sides on

> these and other less controversial political issues.

>

> In addition, he talked extensively about the fact that when the

world

> burns during the cusp of the Aquarian Age, that yogis will be

dragged

> through the street by trucks and angry mobs if they/we don't have

the

> tools ready to help people.

>

> He also had the core belief that Kundalini Yoga is not an ascetic

> tradition, that one must engage in the politics of the day (his

close

> connections to basically every major politician in New Mexico, for

> example) and the reality of the day. Kundalini Yoga was the

> foundation for the person to be able to then engage constructively

in

> the world.

>

> For this forum, I plan to fully (from this point) follow your

general

> guidelines. However, it is an artificial distinction you are making

> in my opinion, for the sake of peace on this forum - it is not a

> direct reflection of the teachings of Kundalini Yoga as portrayed by

> Yogi Bhajan.

>

>

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " Charles D. Frohman "

> <cfroh@> wrote:

> >

> > Political yogis,

> >

> > Keep your political posts coming, but only if they're tied to

> kundalini yoga or Yogi Bhajan's humanology. I, for example, in the

> past have referred to the political statements in the Vedas, the

> source of yoga. Experiment with that and see if we can avoid

> political posts that have no tie to either kundalini yoga or Yogi

> Bhajan's humanology.

> >

> > Sat nam,

> > Amar Atma

> > creator, 3HO's intl

> >

> >

> > Charles D. Frohman

> > 202-536-4346 (W)

> > 202-258-8027 (M)

> >

> >

> > * My Blog: http://dcflow.gaia.com/blog

> > * My Bio and Consultancy: www.cfrohman.com

> > * Charter School where I teach: http://www.iapcs.com/

> > * Friend Me at Facebookor LinkedIn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Cool reply! This seems wildly incongruous; according to YB, George

Bush=BAD, but Iraq war=GOOD?

 

However, George Bush was coming from a place of trying to do what

would transform the situation in the long term. I don't personally

believe the war was the best choice for responding to the radical

islamic threat (even George Will, about as conservative as they come,

said it was grandiosity), but it's " beyond my pay grade " .

 

 

Of course, somewhere I read YB said we have a right to defend

ourselves (generally), and haven't the Sikhs have been fighting off

marauding Muslims for centuries?

[Guest guest]

The most obvious proof is that his businesses supported the U.S.

efforts in the Iraq War with multiple contracts, while he was still

with us in his body.

 

I have been told of this support for the war by people I trust, who

are in positions of authority in 3HO organizations, exactly as I

relayed it. Whether you believe/agree with it or not is really far

outside my concern.

 

I am not interested in bets or in argument about this. For me, I

don't need to believe he was perfect in order to believe he was the

right man for the transition to the Aquarian Age. Others do, but then

I think those others are missing a key point of the teachings - and of

Sikhism - there was a reason Guru Gobind Singh laid the Guru-ship in

the pages of the SGGS, and a reason those who are Sikhs were told to

never follow a human being as a perfected guru again.

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa "

<krishna wrote:

>

> Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

> If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that Yogi

> Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse

> Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse.

>

> I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're

> wrong.

>

> Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary for

> you to " show the bread " in this issue, and not just allude to the hot

> aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

>

> I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to " show me " on this one.

>

> Krishna Singh

>

[Guest guest]

Take a look at two lectures (there may be more)...Espanola September 11th, 2001

and

Espanola September 16th 2001.

 

Regardless of where he stood, these were the best ever (in my opinion)

" political " lectures

he gave...political in the sense that he had to take a stand (for both USA and

peace) and at

the same time prevent and prepare Sikhs world wide that they were in danger of

being

arrested, interrogated, and disappearing.

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa " <krishna

wrote:

>

> Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

> If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that Yogi

> Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse

> Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse.

>

> I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're

> wrong.

>

> Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary for

> you to " show the bread " in this issue, and not just allude to the hot

> aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

>

> I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to " show me " on this one.

>

> Krishna Singh

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa "

> <michael.telanoff@> wrote:

> >

> > Of course, and I apologize for straying off this line. It is a

> good rule.

> >

> > However, Yogi Bhajan's vision was extremely political, so it is

> > difficult to know where to draw the line. For example, his vision

> of

> > " Long Time Sun " was a time in the future when yogis are being put

> > against a firing line for opposition to corrupt forces in power, and

> > they are singing " Long Time Sun " as they are shot. That's pretty

> > political.

> >

> > He also came out strongly in favor of the Iraq War during public

> > speeches, and also publicly said that he would leave the country if

> > Bush was elected in 2000. He definitely publicly picked sides on

> > these and other less controversial political issues.

> >

> > In addition, he talked extensively about the fact that when the

> world

> > burns during the cusp of the Aquarian Age, that yogis will be

> dragged

> > through the street by trucks and angry mobs if they/we don't have

> the

> > tools ready to help people.

> >

> > He also had the core belief that Kundalini Yoga is not an ascetic

> > tradition, that one must engage in the politics of the day (his

> close

> > connections to basically every major politician in New Mexico, for

> > example) and the reality of the day. Kundalini Yoga was the

> > foundation for the person to be able to then engage constructively

> in

> > the world.

> >

> > For this forum, I plan to fully (from this point) follow your

> general

> > guidelines. However, it is an artificial distinction you are making

> > in my opinion, for the sake of peace on this forum - it is not a

> > direct reflection of the teachings of Kundalini Yoga as portrayed by

> > Yogi Bhajan.

> >

> >

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , " Charles D. Frohman "

> > <cfroh@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Political yogis,

> > >

> > > Keep your political posts coming, but only if they're tied to

> > kundalini yoga or Yogi Bhajan's humanology. I, for example, in the

> > past have referred to the political statements in the Vedas, the

> > source of yoga. Experiment with that and see if we can avoid

> > political posts that have no tie to either kundalini yoga or Yogi

> > Bhajan's humanology.

> > >

> > > Sat nam,

> > > Amar Atma

> > > creator, 3HO's intl

> > >

> > >

> > > Charles D. Frohman

> > > 202-536-4346 (W)

> > > 202-258-8027 (M)

> > >

> > >

> > > * My Blog: http://dcflow.gaia.com/blog

> > > * My Bio and Consultancy: www.cfrohman.com

> > > * Charter School where I teach: http://www.iapcs.com/

> > > * Friend Me at Facebookor LinkedIn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, Well, I was really hoping this was

one of those posts that would just dry up and blow away from lack of

interest....

 

It isn't compassionate to be either lazy or too extreme.

 

While none of us can claim to know what was in Yogiji's head, we can

imagine that maybe he was looking out for us all (any of us who wear a

turban, a beard, or have an exotic name, or who have less than pearl

white skin). It could be that he didn't see the need to have "his

children" martyred in the streets because he directed us to oppose this

obviously misplaced war. Sometimes you have to choose your fights and

opposing this war could have been have been the last fight many of us,

or our children, would have been fighting.

Being the owner of millions of dollars in Akal Security contracts

from the US government also makes one compromise in their public

stance. To oppose the war probably would have meant the loss of those

contracts and loss of jobs to many under his wing.

He had to be very careful in his

wording in those paranoid times. He

was being compassionate to us, in his "support" for this war.

 

Known to us as sometimes a Yogi, sometimes the Siri Singh Sahib, and

sometimes the Mahan Tantric.

One thing for sure is he was always a Master, and a Man of God.

 

Always find your way back to compassion.

 

Blessings all around.

Dharam Singh

Millis, MA

 

 

Krishna Singh Khalsa wrote:

 

Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that Yogi Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse. I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're wrong.

Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary for you to "show the bread" in this issue, and not just allude to the hot aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to "show me" on this one.

Krishna Singh

Kundalini-Yoga , "dharam_khalsa" <michael.telanoff wrote:

 

 

Of course, and I apologize for straying off this line. It is a

 

good rule.

 

 

However, Yogi Bhajan's vision was extremely political, so it is

difficult to know where to draw the line. For example, his vision

 

of

 

 

"Long Time Sun" was a time in the future when yogis are being put

against a firing line for opposition to corrupt forces in power, and

they are singing "Long Time Sun" as they are shot. That's pretty

political.

He also came out strongly in favor of the Iraq War during public

speeches, and also publicly said that he would leave the country if

Bush was elected in 2000. He definitely publicly picked sides on

these and other less controversial political issues.

In addition, he talked extensively about the fact that when the

 

world

 

 

burns during the cusp of the Aquarian Age, that yogis will be

 

dragged

 

 

through the street by trucks and angry mobs if they/we don't have

 

the

 

 

tools ready to help people.

He also had the core belief that Kundalini Yoga is not an ascetic

tradition, that one must engage in the politics of the day (his

 

close

 

 

connections to basically every major politician in New Mexico, for

example) and the reality of the day. Kundalini Yoga was the

foundation for the person to be able to then engage constructively

 

in

 

 

the world.

For this forum, I plan to fully (from this point) follow your

 

general

 

 

guidelines. However, it is an artificial distinction you are making

in my opinion, for the sake of peace on this forum - it is not a

direct reflection of the teachings of Kundalini Yoga as portrayed by

Yogi Bhajan.

Kundalini-Yoga , "Charles D. Frohman"

<cfroh@> wrote:

 

 

Political yogis,

Keep your political posts coming, but only if they're tied to

 

 

kundalini yoga or Yogi Bhajan's humanology. I, for example, in the

past have referred to the political statements in the Vedas, the

source of yoga. Experiment with that and see if we can avoid

political posts that have no tie to either kundalini yoga or Yogi

Bhajan's humanology.

 

 

Sat nam,

Amar Atma

creator, 3HO's intl

Charles D. Frohman

202-536-4346 (W)

202-258-8027 (M)

* My Blog: http://dcflow.gaia.com/blog

* My Bio and Consultancy: www.cfrohman.com

* Charter School where I teach: http://www.iapcs.com/

* Friend Me at Facebookor LinkedIn

 

 

 

 

---

 

[Guest guest]

In reply to comments by reedsmyth...I think Sikhs in general would agree

that, as all human beings, we have a right to defend ourselves, but

beyond that we have an obligation to stand up on behalf of those who are

oppressed and unjustly persecuted whatever their religion or

nationality, as taught by the Ninth Guru Tej Bahadur Dev Ji through his

supreme sacrifice. As for fighting off marauding Muslims for centuries,

let me just remind you of two things: Guru Nanak Dev Ji did the

pilgrimage to Mecca with his lifelong companion Mardana who remained a

devout Mulim to his last breath, and in the 250 years between the days

of Guru Gobind Singh and the independence of India, the Sikhs were

busiest fighting off marauding Christians, i.e. the British invaders.

 

Sat Tara S

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Dharam Singh Khalsa, for the last paragraph in your post

reminding me that this is a path, a way to live my life with grace (at

times), truth of my being and love, not the cult of Yogi Bhajan.

 

Ek Ong Kar.....

 

Guru Gopal Kaur

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam, Michael Dharam (and others who are interested or who have

responded), **Consumer warning: weighty discussion follows, don't

read if you feel squeamish about reality (that some of us, not all of

us, have lived and developed in the course of Dharmic life).**

 

Having been casually alleged that Yogi Bhajan supported or advocated

the cause of the Iraq war isn't a topic that's going to go away, or

simply lie down and go back to sleep in some lazy haphazard manner.

Debate is justified, and if anyone can't stand the heat, be a yogi,

do Sitali breath, or leave the kitchen. This is a serious, and

majorly confused allegation, and it goes to the heart of much malaise

that has been neglectfully evolved, and not dealt with since the Siri

Singh Sahib's passing, 4 years ago (just one month before another in

a series of fraud stained US elections). This view of Yogi Bhajan is

also fraudulent, and being circulated (your " secret sources, " Michael

Dharam) by some who are quite likely to be negligent in leadership,

and clearly in a conflict of interest. Since you don't name them,

there's also no transparency in your answer. I asked you to show the

bread, not give us bakery smells. You're asking us to accept a

narrative fantasy, which many of the same have been asking and

expecting for decades, and for some of us it's not acceptable. And

we're still here. WHO speaks for the Truth of 3HO? Executives?

Title holders? Or real people who are willing and courageous enough

to show up, stand up, and speak the truth. We are piercing a smoke

screen here, and the smoke will re-settle rather quickly for a short

while until a strong wind comes up (and it's coming). There will be

no secrets in the Aquarian Age.

 

First of all, allow me to make ONE THING extremely and bountifully

clear - the 3HO businesses you speak of as " his businesses "

which " supported the U.S. efforts in the Iraq War with multiple

contracts " were never " HIS BUSINESSES. " They were OUR BUSINESSES.

WE created them with our sweat, sacrifices, time equity, devotion,

prayers, dedication, decades of hard, hard work (which you were not

party to), AND their legal structures WERE ENTRUSTED to a small group

before his passing. NOW, we're talking about the non-transparent

performances of that small group who were entrusted to manage the

KHALSA COMMONWEALTH in the absence of his advisory capacity. It has

become a secret star chamber exercise in an old game of " take the

money and run. " I am very sad to say this, but it's painfully true.

This organization has shredded the original " social contract " that

was crafted over years of time WITH OUR COLLABORATION AND CO-

OPERATION (Michael Dharam, I personally lived this for almost 36

years, from 1969 to 2005). I directly participated in those

businesses and those discussions along with many others, as equals in

labor and sacrifice. Those of us who sacrificed have not forgotten

the reality that has been shuttled into private hands. Unlike your

sources, who are private and secret, I lived this reality, I was

there in his presence when these principles were articulated and put

into practice, and they have been defiled and destroyed by those who

were entrusted to preserve them. This constitutues a betrayal. Pure

and simple. And this is only the beginning of a long inquiry and a

long story, because what we will have to do collectively to restore

the fiscal strength of a human system, is to recreate a Khalsa

business system that is not run by executive fiat. Keep in mind that

there are multiple minds: Negative Mind, Positive Mind, Neutral

Mind, Administrative Mind, and Executive Mind. At the base is the

Human Soul. And at the crown, there is vast awareness of pure

compassion (not secrecy) that exists " UNTO INFINITY. " Keep in mind,

that in this context, " EXECUTIVE " is an adjective not a noun. (I

don't expect you to agree, this is not for your eyes only, Michael

Dharam). When this group changed " executive " into a noun, they

became the " executives " with unchecked power, and their position of

trust from the rest of us, was for them not to do that. But they

did. Spilled milk. Cry. Cry. Now the crying is over, and the

future will be a collective future, not an executive future.

Executives will be the dinosaurs of future mythology. When there is

no transparency there is no legitimacy. This principle is

incontrovertible in human terms, which is why the corporate model

that was adopted by necessity in the 1970's remains a toxic model,

that does not require our collective loyalty or allegiance. Humanity

can do a much better job " co-operating " rather than laboring under

the fiat and dictations of self-promoting superiors. Besides

Infinity, Humanity has no superiors (least of all those who have

abandoned their human obligations to be open, honest, transparent and

truthful). Of course, if none of this applies to you, don't worry

about it. Unless you're concerned about what has been done " to you. "

 

Accept this, please, as a precis or abstract of much more to follow

in the resurrection and re-constitution of a truly Khalsa

Commonwealth. Those who have abdicated Yogiji's trust have no weight

in informing us about what Yogi Bhajan supported or believed. These

allegations you've shared are EXTREMELY SELF-SERVING on their part,

to ratify their own apparent support for this war by alleging " that

the Yogi said it was true. " That's B.S.

 

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS BEING OFFERED IN LIGHT OF THE HUMANOLOGY

TEACHINGS AND MISSION OF YOGI BHAJAN TO FURTHER THE CAUSE OF " THE 3HO

FOUNDATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL (HUMAN). " NOT the

individual executives. Executives need to be microscopically

inspected these days. They are not laws unto themselves, they are

obligated and responsibel TO ALL, UNTO INFINITY. It's time for some

very straight and revealing conversation.

 

for many, many Blessings,

Krishna Singh Khalsa

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa "

<michael.telanoff wrote:

>

> The most obvious proof is that his businesses supported the U.S.

> efforts in the Iraq War with multiple contracts, while he was still

> with us in his body.

>

> I have been told of this support for the war by people I trust, who

> are in positions of authority in 3HO organizations, exactly as I

> relayed it. Whether you believe/agree with it or not is really far

> outside my concern.

>

> I am not interested in bets or in argument about this. For me, I

> don't need to believe he was perfect in order to believe he was the

> right man for the transition to the Aquarian Age. Others do, but

then

> I think those others are missing a key point of the teachings - and

of

> Sikhism - there was a reason Guru Gobind Singh laid the Guru-ship in

> the pages of the SGGS, and a reason those who are Sikhs were told to

> never follow a human being as a perfected guru again.

>

>

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa "

> <krishna@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

> > If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that

Yogi

> > Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse

> > Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse.

> >

> > I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're

> > wrong.

> >

> > Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary

for

> > you to " show the bread " in this issue, and not just allude to the

hot

> > aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

> >

> > I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to " show me " on this one.

> >

> > Krishna Singh

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna Singhji,

 

Holy, and " Hear, hear. "

 

Very well articulated, not to mention, right on the money.

 

Money? Did someone say, " Money? "

 

Kind regards,

 

Siri Bandhu

 

 

 

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa "

<krishna wrote:

>

> Sat Nam, Michael Dharam (and others who are interested or who have

> responded), **Consumer warning: weighty discussion follows, don't

> read if you feel squeamish about reality (that some of us, not all of

> us, have lived and developed in the course of Dharmic life).**

>

> Having been casually alleged that Yogi Bhajan supported or advocated

> the cause of the Iraq war isn't a topic that's going to go away, or

> simply lie down and go back to sleep in some lazy haphazard manner.

> Debate is justified, and if anyone can't stand the heat, be a yogi,

> do Sitali breath, or leave the kitchen. This is a serious, and

> majorly confused allegation, and it goes to the heart of much malaise

> that has been neglectfully evolved, and not dealt with since the Siri

> Singh Sahib's passing, 4 years ago (just one month before another in

> a series of fraud stained US elections). This view of Yogi Bhajan is

> also fraudulent, and being circulated (your " secret sources, " Michael

> Dharam) by some who are quite likely to be negligent in leadership,

> and clearly in a conflict of interest. Since you don't name them,

> there's also no transparency in your answer. I asked you to show the

> bread, not give us bakery smells. You're asking us to accept a

> narrative fantasy, which many of the same have been asking and

> expecting for decades, and for some of us it's not acceptable. And

> we're still here. WHO speaks for the Truth of 3HO? Executives?

> Title holders? Or real people who are willing and courageous enough

> to show up, stand up, and speak the truth. We are piercing a smoke

> screen here, and the smoke will re-settle rather quickly for a short

> while until a strong wind comes up (and it's coming). There will be

> no secrets in the Aquarian Age.

>

> First of all, allow me to make ONE THING extremely and bountifully

> clear - the 3HO businesses you speak of as " his businesses "

> which " supported the U.S. efforts in the Iraq War with multiple

> contracts " were never " HIS BUSINESSES. " They were OUR BUSINESSES.

> WE created them with our sweat, sacrifices, time equity, devotion,

> prayers, dedication, decades of hard, hard work (which you were not

> party to), AND their legal structures WERE ENTRUSTED to a small group

> before his passing. NOW, we're talking about the non-transparent

> performances of that small group who were entrusted to manage the

> KHALSA COMMONWEALTH in the absence of his advisory capacity. It has

> become a secret star chamber exercise in an old game of " take the

> money and run. " I am very sad to say this, but it's painfully true.

> This organization has shredded the original " social contract " that

> was crafted over years of time WITH OUR COLLABORATION AND CO-

> OPERATION (Michael Dharam, I personally lived this for almost 36

> years, from 1969 to 2005). I directly participated in those

> businesses and those discussions along with many others, as equals in

> labor and sacrifice. Those of us who sacrificed have not forgotten

> the reality that has been shuttled into private hands. Unlike your

> sources, who are private and secret, I lived this reality, I was

> there in his presence when these principles were articulated and put

> into practice, and they have been defiled and destroyed by those who

> were entrusted to preserve them. This constitutues a betrayal. Pure

> and simple. And this is only the beginning of a long inquiry and a

> long story, because what we will have to do collectively to restore

> the fiscal strength of a human system, is to recreate a Khalsa

> business system that is not run by executive fiat. Keep in mind that

> there are multiple minds: Negative Mind, Positive Mind, Neutral

> Mind, Administrative Mind, and Executive Mind. At the base is the

> Human Soul. And at the crown, there is vast awareness of pure

> compassion (not secrecy) that exists " UNTO INFINITY. " Keep in mind,

> that in this context, " EXECUTIVE " is an adjective not a noun. (I

> don't expect you to agree, this is not for your eyes only, Michael

> Dharam). When this group changed " executive " into a noun, they

> became the " executives " with unchecked power, and their position of

> trust from the rest of us, was for them not to do that. But they

> did. Spilled milk. Cry. Cry. Now the crying is over, and the

> future will be a collective future, not an executive future.

> Executives will be the dinosaurs of future mythology. When there is

> no transparency there is no legitimacy. This principle is

> incontrovertible in human terms, which is why the corporate model

> that was adopted by necessity in the 1970's remains a toxic model,

> that does not require our collective loyalty or allegiance. Humanity

> can do a much better job " co-operating " rather than laboring under

> the fiat and dictations of self-promoting superiors. Besides

> Infinity, Humanity has no superiors (least of all those who have

> abandoned their human obligations to be open, honest, transparent and

> truthful). Of course, if none of this applies to you, don't worry

> about it. Unless you're concerned about what has been done " to you. "

>

> Accept this, please, as a precis or abstract of much more to follow

> in the resurrection and re-constitution of a truly Khalsa

> Commonwealth. Those who have abdicated Yogiji's trust have no weight

> in informing us about what Yogi Bhajan supported or believed. These

> allegations you've shared are EXTREMELY SELF-SERVING on their part,

> to ratify their own apparent support for this war by alleging " that

> the Yogi said it was true. " That's B.S.

>

> ALL OF THE ABOVE IS BEING OFFERED IN LIGHT OF THE HUMANOLOGY

> TEACHINGS AND MISSION OF YOGI BHAJAN TO FURTHER THE CAUSE OF " THE 3HO

> FOUNDATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL (HUMAN). " NOT the

> individual executives. Executives need to be microscopically

> inspected these days. They are not laws unto themselves, they are

> obligated and responsibel TO ALL, UNTO INFINITY. It's time for some

> very straight and revealing conversation.

>

> for many, many Blessings,

> Krishna Singh Khalsa

>

>

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa "

> michael.telanoff@ wrote:

> >

> > The most obvious proof is that his businesses supported the U.S.

> > efforts in the Iraq War with multiple contracts, while he was still

> > with us in his body.

> >

> > I have been told of this support for the war by people I trust, who

> > are in positions of authority in 3HO organizations, exactly as I

> > relayed it. Whether you believe/agree with it or not is really far

> > outside my concern.

> >

> > I am not interested in bets or in argument about this. For me, I

> > don't need to believe he was perfect in order to believe he was the

> > right man for the transition to the Aquarian Age. Others do, but

> then

> > I think those others are missing a key point of the teachings - and

> of

> > Sikhism - there was a reason Guru Gobind Singh laid the Guru-ship in

> > the pages of the SGGS, and a reason those who are Sikhs were told to

> > never follow a human being as a perfected guru again.

> >

> >

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa "

> > <krishna@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

> > > If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that

> Yogi

> > > Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse

> > > Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse.

> > >

> > > I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're

> > > wrong.

> > >

> > > Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary

> for

> > > you to " show the bread " in this issue, and not just allude to the

> hot

> > > aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

> > >

> > > I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to " show me " on this one.

> > >

> > > Krishna Singh

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Krishna-

 

I did post a response, but the moderator did not approve it. Here is

the message I received:

 

" Too vitriolic. If you can get your point across more gracefully it

might be posted. "

 

It seems this forum has degenerated from the free discussion of

several years ago. Here is a modified version of my post - I will not

check if it is posted or not. I will never read this forum again, so

if you wish to respond you can reply directly to me, or give me a call

- we both live in the same town.

 

Here is a very modified version of my post, my last one.

 

-----

Man alive, I walk away for two days and this is what was going on?

Wow.

 

At worst, I was mistaken, which clear communication could have elicited.

 

Claiming that Yogi Bhajan supported the Iraq War is not an aspersion

on his character. Many Sikhs, and members of 3HO, are not

progressive, are not liberal and supported the Iraq War. Look on-

line at the publicly available list of donations to the RNC and DNC in

2000 and 2004, search for Khalsa, and see who shows up. There are 3HO

Sikhs that listen to Rush Limbaugh.

 

I am personally progressive and liberal, for the record.

 

I agree that these are dharmic businesses we are discussing. I never

suggested otherwise, or that many Sikhs (and many, many more people

who were not Sikhs or part of 3HO and who do not practice yoga)

built these businesses up and were part of them.

 

The truth is that you do not have any ownership stake in these

businesses. So while you feel a personal connection to them, they are

YOUR businesses in your heart but not your businesses

legally or in terms of decision making. As I understand it, and is

public knowledge, the businesses are all controlled ultimately by an

organization of five people who have lifetime appointments. I have

no judgment or negativity about this setup.

 

When many Sikhs and members of 3HO were laid off the last few years,

those were business decisions, and in my opinion, publicly stated by

many in senior positions, a push to run a more professional business

and a less family focused business. Many of those people laid off had

worked for the 3HO businesses their whole lives, some straight out of

high school. My guess is that you know some of them.

 

Again, I have no judgment about these decisions, but they were

clearly BUSINESS decisions, not FAMILY decisions.

 

Yogi Bhajan, while alive, was the Chief Management Authority (I

believe that was the title) of these businesses, and his word was

final in all businesses at all times. Although he took less and

less part in them towards the end, his word was still final.

 

These businesses, Akal of course in particular, did millions of

dollars in contracting work in support of the Iraq War effort. This

was a conscious decision. It was support of the Iraq War effort.

These contracts started while Yogi Bhajan was still alive and CMA,

and therefore the final decision maker.

 

At the very worst - I was wrong. I do not believe that I am wrong,

but that is the worst I can be accused of. What I can not be

accused of is personal attacks or an attempt to disparage Yogi Bhajan.

Neither would be true.

 

I await your apology for your personal attacks, Krishna Singh and

others who jumped on the bandwagon of attack as opposed to communication.

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " siribandhu " <siribandhu

wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Krishna Singhji,

>

> Holy, and " Hear, hear. "

>

> Very well articulated, not to mention, right on the money.

>

> Money? Did someone say, " Money? "

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Siri Bandhu

>

>

>

>

> Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa "

> <krishna@> wrote:

> >

> > Sat Nam, Michael Dharam (and others who are interested or who have

> > responded), **Consumer warning: weighty discussion follows, don't

> > read if you feel squeamish about reality (that some of us, not all of

> > us, have lived and developed in the course of Dharmic life).**

> >

> > Having been casually alleged that Yogi Bhajan supported or advocated

> > the cause of the Iraq war isn't a topic that's going to go away, or

> > simply lie down and go back to sleep in some lazy haphazard manner.

> > Debate is justified, and if anyone can't stand the heat, be a yogi,

> > do Sitali breath, or leave the kitchen. This is a serious, and

> > majorly confused allegation, and it goes to the heart of much malaise

> > that has been neglectfully evolved, and not dealt with since the Siri

> > Singh Sahib's passing, 4 years ago (just one month before another in

> > a series of fraud stained US elections). This view of Yogi Bhajan is

> > also fraudulent, and being circulated (your " secret sources, " Michael

> > Dharam) by some who are quite likely to be negligent in leadership,

> > and clearly in a conflict of interest. Since you don't name them,

> > there's also no transparency in your answer. I asked you to show the

> > bread, not give us bakery smells. You're asking us to accept a

> > narrative fantasy, which many of the same have been asking and

> > expecting for decades, and for some of us it's not acceptable. And

> > we're still here. WHO speaks for the Truth of 3HO? Executives?

> > Title holders? Or real people who are willing and courageous enough

> > to show up, stand up, and speak the truth. We are piercing a smoke

> > screen here, and the smoke will re-settle rather quickly for a short

> > while until a strong wind comes up (and it's coming). There will be

> > no secrets in the Aquarian Age.

> >

> > First of all, allow me to make ONE THING extremely and bountifully

> > clear - the 3HO businesses you speak of as " his businesses "

> > which " supported the U.S. efforts in the Iraq War with multiple

> > contracts " were never " HIS BUSINESSES. " They were OUR BUSINESSES.

> > WE created them with our sweat, sacrifices, time equity, devotion,

> > prayers, dedication, decades of hard, hard work (which you were not

> > party to), AND their legal structures WERE ENTRUSTED to a small group

> > before his passing. NOW, we're talking about the non-transparent

> > performances of that small group who were entrusted to manage the

> > KHALSA COMMONWEALTH in the absence of his advisory capacity. It has

> > become a secret star chamber exercise in an old game of " take the

> > money and run. " I am very sad to say this, but it's painfully true.

> > This organization has shredded the original " social contract " that

> > was crafted over years of time WITH OUR COLLABORATION AND CO-

> > OPERATION (Michael Dharam, I personally lived this for almost 36

> > years, from 1969 to 2005). I directly participated in those

> > businesses and those discussions along with many others, as equals in

> > labor and sacrifice. Those of us who sacrificed have not forgotten

> > the reality that has been shuttled into private hands. Unlike your

> > sources, who are private and secret, I lived this reality, I was

> > there in his presence when these principles were articulated and put

> > into practice, and they have been defiled and destroyed by those who

> > were entrusted to preserve them. This constitutues a betrayal. Pure

> > and simple. And this is only the beginning of a long inquiry and a

> > long story, because what we will have to do collectively to restore

> > the fiscal strength of a human system, is to recreate a Khalsa

> > business system that is not run by executive fiat. Keep in mind that

> > there are multiple minds: Negative Mind, Positive Mind, Neutral

> > Mind, Administrative Mind, and Executive Mind. At the base is the

> > Human Soul. And at the crown, there is vast awareness of pure

> > compassion (not secrecy) that exists " UNTO INFINITY. " Keep in mind,

> > that in this context, " EXECUTIVE " is an adjective not a noun. (I

> > don't expect you to agree, this is not for your eyes only, Michael

> > Dharam). When this group changed " executive " into a noun, they

> > became the " executives " with unchecked power, and their position of

> > trust from the rest of us, was for them not to do that. But they

> > did. Spilled milk. Cry. Cry. Now the crying is over, and the

> > future will be a collective future, not an executive future.

> > Executives will be the dinosaurs of future mythology. When there is

> > no transparency there is no legitimacy. This principle is

> > incontrovertible in human terms, which is why the corporate model

> > that was adopted by necessity in the 1970's remains a toxic model,

> > that does not require our collective loyalty or allegiance. Humanity

> > can do a much better job " co-operating " rather than laboring under

> > the fiat and dictations of self-promoting superiors. Besides

> > Infinity, Humanity has no superiors (least of all those who have

> > abandoned their human obligations to be open, honest, transparent and

> > truthful). Of course, if none of this applies to you, don't worry

> > about it. Unless you're concerned about what has been done " to you. "

> >

> > Accept this, please, as a precis or abstract of much more to follow

> > in the resurrection and re-constitution of a truly Khalsa

> > Commonwealth. Those who have abdicated Yogiji's trust have no weight

> > in informing us about what Yogi Bhajan supported or believed. These

> > allegations you've shared are EXTREMELY SELF-SERVING on their part,

> > to ratify their own apparent support for this war by alleging " that

> > the Yogi said it was true. " That's B.S.

> >

> > ALL OF THE ABOVE IS BEING OFFERED IN LIGHT OF THE HUMANOLOGY

> > TEACHINGS AND MISSION OF YOGI BHAJAN TO FURTHER THE CAUSE OF " THE 3HO

> > FOUNDATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL (HUMAN). " NOT the

> > individual executives. Executives need to be microscopically

> > inspected these days. They are not laws unto themselves, they are

> > obligated and responsibel TO ALL, UNTO INFINITY. It's time for some

> > very straight and revealing conversation.

> >

> > for many, many Blessings,

> > Krishna Singh Khalsa

> >

> >

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , " dharam_khalsa "

> > michael.telanoff@ wrote:

> > >

> > > The most obvious proof is that his businesses supported the U.S.

> > > efforts in the Iraq War with multiple contracts, while he was still

> > > with us in his body.

> > >

> > > I have been told of this support for the war by people I trust, who

> > > are in positions of authority in 3HO organizations, exactly as I

> > > relayed it. Whether you believe/agree with it or not is really far

> > > outside my concern.

> > >

> > > I am not interested in bets or in argument about this. For me, I

> > > don't need to believe he was perfect in order to believe he was the

> > > right man for the transition to the Aquarian Age. Others do, but

> > then

> > > I think those others are missing a key point of the teachings - and

> > of

> > > Sikhism - there was a reason Guru Gobind Singh laid the Guru-ship in

> > > the pages of the SGGS, and a reason those who are Sikhs were told to

> > > never follow a human being as a perfected guru again.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Kundalini-Yoga , " Krishna Singh Khalsa "

> > > <krishna@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sat Nam, Dharam Michael--

> > > > If you can provide clear, authentic, and credible evidence that

> > Yogi

> > > > Bhajan supported this Iraq War, I'll eat my turban at Wayne Morse

> > > > Free Speech Plaza, at the Lane County Oregon courthouse.

> > > >

> > > > I suggest that you commit to doing something comparable if you're

> > > > wrong.

> > > >

> > > > Blessings on your cognitive-investigative skills. It's necessary

> > for

> > > > you to " show the bread " in this issue, and not just allude to the

> > hot

> > > > aromas of a bakery as evidence of any bread.

> > > >

> > > > I'm from Missouri (really). You'll have to " show me " on this one.

> > > >

> > > > Krishna Singh

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

to my knowledge, yogiji NEVER supported war.

he always said, "war ends at the conference table - let us now begin at the conference table." i well remember during war on iraq I yogiji having us pray for the thousands and thousands of iraqis killed in that war (for example, at the start of the u s - coalition pish into iraq, the highway from kuwait city to baghdad was named the highway of death as 100,000 retreating iraqi soldiers lost their lives on that retreat). his attitude then and now has always been that war is a psychotic outburst of human behaviour and needs to be ended right now and forever.

sat nam, god bless:

guru simran singh

[Guest guest]

(The following was originally a private post to Dharam Michael, which

the moderator asked me to post here.)

 

Thank you, Dharam Michael, for your kind response. I am very

interested in your ideas and thinking and will love to answer your

question. I will start with that.

 

Your question:

For me however, the big question is - why is it so important to you

that he opposed the Iraq War, if that is your contention? What does

that have to do with your own judgment about the war?

 

Since I am strongly committed to " a new world is possible " a world of

peace and prosperity and freedom for all people; and because I

dedicate myself entirely to achieving that vision, by teaching and

serving and uplifting people and consciousness to understand how we

co-create our world, it was naturally important to me to choose a

teacher who shared this vision. Everything I have ever heard Yogi

Bhajan say and everything I have ever read in his lectures and

everything I have ever been told by others that he has said, has

assured me that he utterly supported peace within and peace in the

world through awakening to our inner divine connection with the

Infinite creative consciousness.

 

Yogi Bhajan also spread the teachings of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib;

he taught us to read and understand the Guru's word. All of the ten

Gurus taught us to live in peace and create prosperity and freedom

for all. Guru Hargobind introduced Miri Piri and Guru Gobind Singh

perfected these virtues. Perhaps it was because I grew up in the 60s

and came of age in Haight Ashbury with the flower children of that

era that I became conflicted with the idea of being completely

pacifist, while there was so much violence still prevalent in the

world; I could not resolve in the back of my mind, what to do about

others' violence. I did not wholly to Ghandi's view. So,

there was always that nagging thought - what do you do if you need to

protect yourself or a loved one from violence?

 

When I was introduced to the teachings of Guru Hargobind and Guru

Gobind Singh, I was completely fulfilled and grateful. " When every

peaceful means has failed, it is pious and just to raise the sword. "

I fell utterly in love with the form of Guru Gobind Singh, with the

bana, keeping the sword and its awesome power sacred, and the vision

of Miri Piri. " To be a soldier, live first as a saint. " I committed

myself to this path.

 

I am still not clear as to what you have heard or read by Yogi Bhajan

that has convinced you or led you to believe that he supported the

war in Iraq. I do understand that you could interpret peoples'

contributions to political parties as supporting the war. On that, we

can only agree to disagree. I will say that I have been pretty active

in our larger community political activities, and I have developed

relationships with political leaders who are Democrat, Republican,

Green, Libertarian, and Independent. While my personal views lean

mostly between Libertarian and Green, I am active in other party

activities and develop relationships with their leaders because I

have found that is the best way to promote the interests I support of

peace and prosperity and freedom for all people. I make my views

known to political leaders and consider this the best way I can help

create change for the highest good of all, from within the various

parties and with direct impact on political leaders. (Aside form

Sadhana.)

 

I do not speak for Daya, but I can tell you I have seen him do this

kind of work with political leaders of various parties very

skillfully. And God knows that Yogi Bhajan was completely masterful

in his ability to impact so many political leaders that he met with

for years on the national level and in New Mexico, awakening

consciousness and promoting peace and prosperity and freedom for all

people. I watched him meet with hundreds of political leaders and

never heard him promote or support the war in Iraq or any kind of war.

 

Had you been present at this year's Birthday Celebration for Yogi

Bhajan, you might have been surprised to have heard a speech that was

given by Senator Ben Lujan of New Mexico. We all kind of smiled,

because while it may not have been true, the man truly did believe

what he was saying. Senator Lujan told the audience, " If Yogi Bhajan

was alive today, the war in Iraq would be over! " There were many

political leaders who spoke at the party, as there are every year on

August 26th, when we celebrate his life and legacy, and all of those

leaders come each year to say how grateful they are for his guidance

and direction while he was living. They all experienced him as a man

of peace.

 

I do remember the meeting you are talking about at Solstice one year.

The meeting was held because people were asking why Akal had

contracts that they judged to be in support of the war. Daya told

them Akal's mission is to serve and protect people. Our contracts do

not support war, they support peace and security. Some had judged our

contracts with the Army and Air Force, for whom we provided access

control on domestic locations at their entry gates, to be in support

the war. Perhaps God did as well because, for whatever reason, we

lost them and no longer have those contracts; but our primary income

has always derived from protecting our federal courthouses across the

country. Our goal and future vision is to gain more contracts to

protect U.S. Embassies worldwide. We won our first U.S. Embassy

contract in Sierra Leonne, last year. This year, through our

subsidiary, Coastal, we won a nationwide contract with NASA. So, this

is now the beginning of Akal Inter-Galactic Security! (just kidding

 

Thank you, Dharam. We wish you would still participate.

 

Sat Nam

 

Gurumeet Kaur Khalsa

Create Inner Peace

gurumeet

www.createinnerpeace.com

www.gurumeet.net