Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 In response to your question, " I wonder, has anyone ever wondered if yogi-ji said all those wonderful things about women to make up for being part of a fairly misogynistic culture? " : I think he may have been especially inspired to say the myriad positive things he said about women in light of the misogynistic tendencies in his culture and the US culture (I know he wasn't fond of ladies being called chicks when he showed up here, for instance), and this does not in any way invalidate the truth of the things he said about women. Plus, as a 36 year old woman in the USA who never really studied feminism before, I just recently have come to realize only within the last few months (after reading a feminist book someone lent me)the subtle and pervasive continuation of the wording, the stories, the images the many many ways that perpetuate the out-of-date male dominated ways. It so subtly ingrained in many of our cultures (I did study anthropology), in means such as language which gives us culture. As we learn our native tongue and it's vocabulary we learn the worldview implied by it. I am glad Yogi Bhajan made a point to empower women and spoke so highly about their deserving respect from themselves and from everyone, male or female. In our culture, as with many others, we definitely could use his support. Power to the Mamas! Bridget Kamke, LMT Kundalini Yoga Teacher Licensed Massage Therapist Children's Book Author www.infinipede.com __________ Become a Medical Transcriptionist. Click here to find schedules designed to fit your life. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu1VbVf4xsRiLVLx4Da5ap8ZDi0Wgd8\ zELZ978aOBYD2GYUd/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 My teacher has said, between the two of us after class, that religion (and not just his, but all) can by misogynistic. I try not to look at tradition as good or bad, just whether we ought to respect or modify it. When I had a regular daily sadhana, I did feel embarrassed about my body, even my hair. The first time I attended the reading of the Japji, I was a few minutes late and I didn't know about the head covering required for it. The energy around me was, how do I say it? Intense? Heavy? I knew that I was doing something wrong, I felt like everyone was looking at me (ok, the whole 2 or 3 other people there). I was essentially reprimanded after the reading for having my hair uncovered, that it was a great disrespect. I was embarrassed and humbled, it was not a good sadhana for me, but I returned the next day, with a hoodie, all of the mantras memorized, (Rakhe Rakhan Har took a little longer to learn), and I never made the same mistake again! But really, I like covering my hair in prayer or in prayer-like meditations. But I digress. This self-consciousness that I felt of my body and hair was a result of a tradition where women were told to cover up, that we all know what is there so why flaunt it, but I wasn't flaunting it! I don't wear a turban or head piece, but my hair is very long, so even in a ponytail I have felt inappropriate, and I picked up on the covering of the ankles. Just another dichotomy, but over the past couple of years, I have come to learn that life is about finding the balance in all of the discrepancies, and that can make it fun, if approached wisely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I highly recommend the book At the Root of This Longing--Reconciling a Spiritual Hunger and a Feminist Thirst by Carol Lee Flinders to address these discrepancies http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780062513151/At_the_Root_of_This_L onging/index.aspx Kundalini-Yoga , " carlyblackwell " <carlyblackwell wrote: > > My teacher has said, between the two of us after class, that religion > (and not just his, but all) can by misogynistic. I try not to look at > tradition as good or bad, just whether we ought to respect or modify > it. When I had a regular daily sadhana, I did feel embarrassed about > my body, even my hair. The first time I attended the reading of the > Japji, I was a few minutes late and I didn't know about the head > covering required for it. The energy around me was, how do I say it? > Intense? Heavy? I knew that I was doing something wrong, I felt like > everyone was looking at me (ok, the whole 2 or 3 other people there). > I was essentially reprimanded after the reading for having my hair > uncovered, that it was a great disrespect. I was embarrassed and > humbled, it was not a good sadhana for me, but I returned the next > day, with a hoodie, all of the mantras memorized, (Rakhe Rakhan Har > took a little longer to learn), and I never made the same mistake > again! But really, I like covering my hair in prayer or in > prayer-like meditations. > > But I digress. This self-consciousness that I felt of my body and > hair was a result of a tradition where women were told to cover up, > that we all know what is there so why flaunt it, but I wasn't > flaunting it! I don't wear a turban or head piece, but my hair is > very long, so even in a ponytail I have felt inappropriate, and I > picked up on the covering of the ankles. Just another dichotomy, but > over the past couple of years, I have come to learn that life is about > finding the balance in all of the discrepancies, and that can make it > fun, if approached wisely > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks, it is interesting to look into the discrepancies, but no book will reconcile them. It is the basic fact that West and East are different, and that's not going away in a few decades after being introduced to the East's cultures and customs. We cannot ignore our secular society in the West, too many people fought and died for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Dear Carly, The concern for a lack of head covering during Japji would happen if you are a man or a woman. Having your head covered is about your head not about your genitals. Kind regards, Siri Bandhu Humble Moderator Kundalini-Yoga , "carlyblackwell" <carlyblackwell wrote:>> Thanks, it is interesting to look into the discrepancies, but no book> will reconcile them. It is the basic fact that West and East are> different, and that's not going away in a few decades after being> introduced to the East's cultures and customs. We cannot ignore our> secular society in the West, too many people fought and died for it.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Of course! (And breasts aren't genitals). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Nanak was chastised many times for not doing the “correct thing” when it came to customs prevalent at the time. His replies always emphasised that it is what’s in the heart that matters, and when that’s not present, no custom will correct for it. Time and time again, I’m told how Yogi Bhajan always emphasised that the most important thing to practice is compassion and kindness. Yogi Bhajan taught women that they had a choice between a life of insecurity, where their dignity constantly falls victim to the negative opinions of others or that they could choose to recognise, refine and practice their distinct power, intelligence and grace that is available to them specifically as women. In the year I’ve been working with Guru Kaur building the Be the Woman... Online Course & Community, I’ve been privileged to witness some incredible changes in women who have opened up to their distinct possibilities as women. Some of them are yoga students, some of them are Sikhs, some of them are neither. I can safely say, the teachings of Yoga Bhajan regarding women are universal and are not inherently centred around a specific practice, creed or tradition. They represent a whole outlook on life - one that opens you to a completely new realm of possibilities for your life as a woman regardless of what you do on a daily basis. Gratefully, Hari Karam Singh ______ Take the free preview mini-course: http://www.be-the-woman.com/ ______ Kundalini-Yoga [Kundalini-Yoga ] 17 January 2009 10:47 Kundalini-Yoga Digest Number 1382 Kundalini-Yoga Messages In This Digest (8 Messages) 1a. Re: Yogiji praising women awtarkaursf 1b. Re: Yogiji praising women carlyblackwell 1c. Re: Yogiji praising women siribandhu 1d. Re: Yogiji praising women carlyblackwell 2a. Re: Respect the resistance, re: feeling guilty. Scott 3a. Re: The Topic of Feeling Guilty About Not Meditation, doing Sadhana Scott 3b. Re: The Topic of Feeling Guilty About Not Meditation, doing Sadhana carlyblackwell 4. Farthest North Teacher Training GuruMeher S. Khalsa View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Re: Yogiji praising women Posted by: " awtarkaursf " awtarkaur awtarkaursf Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:14 am (PST) I highly recommend the book At the Root of This Longing--Reconciling a Spiritual Hunger and a Feminist Thirst by Carol Lee Flinders to address these discrepancies http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780062513151/At_the_Root_of_This_L onging/index.aspx Kundalini-Yoga , " carlyblackwell " <carlyblackwell wrote: > > My teacher has said, between the two of us after class, that religion > (and not just his, but all) can by misogynistic. I try not to look at > tradition as good or bad, just whether we ought to respect or modify > it. When I had a regular daily sadhana, I did feel embarrassed about > my body, even my hair. The first time I attended the reading of the > Japji, I was a few minutes late and I didn't know about the head > covering required for it. The energy around me was, how do I say it? > Intense? Heavy? I knew that I was doing something wrong, I felt like > everyone was looking at me (ok, the whole 2 or 3 other people there). > I was essentially reprimanded after the reading for having my hair > uncovered, that it was a great disrespect. I was embarrassed and > humbled, it was not a good sadhana for me, but I returned the next > day, with a hoodie, all of the mantras memorized, (Rakhe Rakhan Har > took a little longer to learn), and I never made the same mistake > again! But really, I like covering my hair in prayer or in > prayer-like meditations. > > But I digress. This self-consciousness that I felt of my body and > hair was a result of a tradition where women were told to cover up, > that we all know what is there so why flaunt it, but I wasn't > flaunting it! I don't wear a turban or head piece, but my hair is > very long, so even in a ponytail I have felt inappropriate, and I > picked up on the covering of the ankles. Just another dichotomy, but > over the past couple of years, I have come to learn that life is about > finding the balance in all of the discrepancies, and that can make it > fun, if approached wisely > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1b. Re: Yogiji praising women Posted by: " carlyblackwell " carlyblackwell carlyblackwell Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:49 am (PST) Thanks, it is interesting to look into the discrepancies, but no book will reconcile them. It is the basic fact that West and East are different, and that's not going away in a few decades after being introduced to the East's cultures and customs. We cannot ignore our secular society in the West, too many people fought and died for it. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1c. Re: Yogiji praising women Posted by: " siribandhu " siribandhu siribandhu Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:57 am (PST) Dear Carly, The concern for a lack of head covering during Japji would happen if you are a man or a woman. Having your head covered is about your head not about your genitals. Kind regards, Siri Bandhu Humble Moderator <http://www.ottawaweddingsyourway.com> Kundalini-Yoga , " carlyblackwell " <carlyblackwell wrote: > > Thanks, it is interesting to look into the discrepancies, but no book > will reconcile them. It is the basic fact that West and East are > different, and that's not going away in a few decades after being > introduced to the East's cultures and customs. We cannot ignore our > secular society in the West, too many people fought and died for it. > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 1d. Re: Yogiji praising women Posted by: " carlyblackwell " carlyblackwell carlyblackwell Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:56 am (PST) Of course! (And breasts aren't genitals). Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (6) 2a. Re: Respect the resistance, re: feeling guilty. Posted by: " Scott " scott scott_soultender Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:56 am (PST) Carly, I sensed that I needed to speak up! I find that Guru Ram Dass is perfectly ok with me taking what I need and leaving the rest, without altering the teachings of course! Sat Nam (respect the True Place in you) Scott Kundalini-Yoga , " carlyblackwell " <carlyblackwell wrote: > > This is exactly where I am at now. I'm going to let my ego talk a > moment - I feel in love with KY immediately, and my teacher. He's a > tough teacher, and he makes sure we feel it after ever class. But I > was always so proud, and I never gave up. I believed that I was the > best. I understood completely the concept of " breaking through the > wall " , and I never failed to break through it. Now that I am a ballet > student, I am actually learning more about my body that I have been in > yoga. Of course in ballet we don't talk about glands, but I better > understand my core strength now. Now I see that while I was breaking > through walls, I was nearly breaking myself, over-developing my > extremities to be exact, which I am reversing in dance. Now when I'm > in yoga class, I recognize the wall, and I think, ok maybe I'll just > gently hurdle over it rather than full-speed ahead, and I take a break > if I need to, yes Scott, I respect the resistance now! > > I don't want to give up on KY, and I realized last night after > watching a lecture from Dr. Chopra, that I don't need to give up just > because I am not by definition Khalsa. I have the best teacher, > though sometimes a little too militaristic (even so, I've always > considered myself a warrior, I know that I didn't stumble upon him by > chance), he calls us Khalsa, he'll also call us out as well. I love > KY, and I've decided that if someone is going to judge because of > their Sikh background/religion, then that's really their problem! > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (10) 3a. Re: The Topic of Feeling Guilty About Not Meditation, doing Sadhana Posted by: " Scott " scott scott_soultender Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:57 am (PST) Thank you for your wise understanding and compassion. I think now a lot of people are taking Kundalini Yoga teachings while working their own path and thus serving as an example to others. There are so many teachings and examples for those who want to take the path all the way and embrace all aspects as a lifestyle but not as many about how to be yourself, take what works and allow your kundalini to guide you rather than anyone or anything else. I think I am part of the new generation of teachers to help that happen. Sat Nam Scott So yes, absolutely, take the technology of Kundalini Yoga and the > universality of the other tools and apply them wherever you see they are > needed. The Heavens will thank you. > Yes, you do not need to wear a turban and look like a Sikh. The world > needs all realized beings to serve all factions. When I lived in the > Haight Ashbury ashram in the seventies a Jewish fellow joined us. His > goal was to use Kundalini yoga and Guru awareness to help him find a > true Jewish holy man. He did, and brought him to the ashram to meet > everyone, eyes sparkling, his warm heart wide-open--a beautiful soul. I > also saw Yogi Bhajan tell a woman she did not need to be a Sikh. In fact > he told her to join the Hari Krishna movement. Kundalini-Yoga , Guruprem Kaur <guruprem wrote: > > Sat Nam Scott, > Yes, there is powerful martial element to Sikhism--the warrior power of > the soul to exist and resist all negation. It is what we feel on seeing > great injustice and cruelty to the innocent, including ourselves. > > During the time of the Gurus, people were heavily subjugated by Mogul > invaders. The overall response was to be a helpless victim. Victim > consciousness is simply the reverse side of the coin, the flip side > being warrior consciousness. All Guru Gobind Singh did in creating the > Khalsa was to flip the coin. But something else happened that day-- he > dipped the whole coin, one's whole consciousness, into Amrit, creating a > sweetness, a saintliness, in perfect balance with the warrior > element--the warrior saints of Khalsa. > > The reason worship of the Guru feels wrong is because it is. Just love > the Guru, all of them, pour out all your pain when you bow. The void > will be filled with sublime peace and happiness. Truly! > > The Siri Guru Granth Sahib is like Yogiji, a postman delivering the > teachings, the essence of the Lord, through words. Only the Siri Guru > Granth Sahib does not change. The Word is the Guru in its most subtle > form. And neither the Gurus nor Yogiji cared to be worshipped. Yogiji > claimed he lost a toe because so many people touched his feet. > > The Siri Guru Granth Sahib has compositions by 36 authors, including > seven of the ten Gurus and Moslem and Hindu saints of a wide range of > castes, from the lowest to the highest. All compositions were chosen > because of their pure power of Naadh--where the sound of the words > relays their meaning. It is written in Gurmukhi script because Gurmukhi > is the font of the people. It is phonetic and, unlike Sanskrit of > India's ancient priestly caste, very easy to learn. Because it is > phonetic, anyone can utter the words as they were originally spoken by > the saints in God consciousness, thereby re-creating that divine > consciousness within themselves. It is a powerful, sacred spiritual > tool, treated with great, loving reverence all around the world. There > is nothing else like it. > > In Kundalini kriyas I do not worship the Gurus. I simply call on them to > support my reach to Truth and to bless the world. The Gurus and sublime > beings need people like us on earth to help, just as all the saints in > history were needed. Soon we will all be required to live in Christ > consciousness in order to serve the Aquarian Age. It is either that or > be a victim. Use Kundalini Yoga (it's fast!) and the mantras and > Gurubani (they are right on the mark!) to prepare yourself now, while > there is still time. > > Yes, you do not need to wear a turban and look like a Sikh. The world > needs all realized beings to serve all factions. When I lived in the > Haight Ashbury ashram in the seventies a Jewish fellow joined us. His > goal was to use Kundalini yoga and Guru awareness to help him find a > true Jewish holy man. He did, and brought him to the ashram to meet > everyone, eyes sparkling, his warm heart wide-open--a beautiful soul. I > also saw Yogi Bhajan tell a woman she did not need to be a Sikh. In fact > he told her to join the Hari Krishna movement. It was easy to see how > that group was best suited to her. Also some key members of the Guru's > court and troops were Europeans who brought their special skills to aide > his cause without overtly becoming Sikh. > > > Loving Blessings, > Guru Prem Kaur > http//:www.pathoflifetolight.com > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (8) 3b. Re: The Topic of Feeling Guilty About Not Meditation, doing Sadhana Posted by: " carlyblackwell " carlyblackwell carlyblackwell Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:08 pm (PST) Agreed with both posters! I've been so busy in this group, talking about dress and religion, that I forgot that Guru Nanak even himself didn't call himself a Sikh! We are indeed blessed that Yogi Bhajan came to North America, and he did not have it easy when he first arrived here, in Canada, either! I think that our own personal paths or intentions lead us to the information that we embark upon. Only recently I began reading articles of YB lectures that made me feel that I needed to be a certain way, that I was interpreting negatively, but for years all I ever understood from his lectures were messages of pure love and knowledge. It's interesting how the ego plays tricks on us. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (8) 4. Farthest North Teacher Training Posted by: " GuruMeher S. Khalsa " gurumeher gurumeher Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:58 am (PST) Congratulations to Devta Kaur of Farbanks, Alaska! She has organized the Fathest North Level 1 course on the planet beginning Monday. (If someone from Sweden cares to claim further than 200 miles below the Arctic Cirlce, let us know.) Breath of fireat 50 below anyone? If you want a teacher training in your out-of-the-way place, it can happen. Let me know if you need support to make it happen. Blessings, GuruMeher in LA (85 above today!) 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