Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Sat Nam dear yogic family, I've recently delved into Yin Yoga since I was interested in how it dealt with the deeper aspects of yoga practice, i.e. affecting the connective tissue of the body instead of hatha yoga's obession with the muscle. As part of my research, I bought Paul Grilley's Yin Yoga DVD and watched the 2-hour course included in the DVD set. Yin Yoga distinguishes itself from other yogas by the fact that it stresses the joints of the body, not the muscle, partially to increase the hyaluronic acid in the synovial fluid present in the joints. As part of his course, Grilley mentions that when we create a rhythm and a repetition to an exercise that focuses on the joints, we will undoubtedly get hurt. When he said that, I immediately thought about " Cat Cow " in Kundalini Yoga, where we flex the spine up and down and our head goes up and down in the opposite direction. Does this mean that Kundalini Yoga is in opposition to Yin Yoga? It just sounds like when we do " Cat Cow " for 5 minutes or so that we're undoubtedly causing injury to ourselves, since it works on the joints of our spine in a repeated, rhythmic fashion? Thank you, Nadh Singh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Kundalini-Yoga , " terrarium44 " <terrarium44 wrote: > Dear Nadh Singhji, The connective tissue in the spinal column is a bit different than that of a regular joint. There is the disc between the bones that is a connective tissue. The squishing (technical healing term!) of the joint from the arching pushes the craniosacral fluid out of the discs. Since there is no such thing as a vacuum in the body, the hydraulic action in the flexing motion flushes new fluid into the disc. It is a cleansing of the area, but in a greater sense, it is a " lube job " for the spinal joints. The dura matar is the connective tissue around the joints. There are 9 connective tissues connecting the bones. So bones in the middle would have 18 attachments to the vertebra above and below it. This is so the spine can torque, flex and extend, and upon extreme exertion separate and regroup, hopefully without damage. This physical configuration alone and the valuable cargo, the central nervous system, its housing makes the spine an extremely different joint system than other joints in the body. Since the connective tissue (ct) can secrete the neurotransmitters like serotonin, nor-epinephrine, dopamine, etc the density of dura mater (dm) is an adjunct to the central nervous system (CNS). It was believed at one time only the CNS could secrete these neurotransmitters. So by definition the ct and dm are functionally related to the CNS. On a physical level, the flexion and extension of the spinal column and dm pumps the craniosacral fluid that houses the entire CNS including the brain. This bathes the CNS in the life-giving juice that maintains functioning of the brain and spine. Yogis judge a body's age on the flexibility of the spine, body and brain function. There is no better exercise EVER than the humble spinal flex and twist (carefully done with a teacher) in every form. This can even be done in a chair by those who are incapicated! The Cat-Cow and spinal flex set the best gift ever. Please utilize it, and pass it on. Satnam. Kind regards, Siri Bandhu Humble Moderator www.ottawaweddingsyourway.com > Sat Nam dear yogic family, > > I've recently delved into Yin Yoga since I was interested in how it dealt with the deeper aspects of yoga practice, i.e. affecting the connective tissue of the body instead of hatha yoga's obession with the muscle. As part of my research, I bought Paul Grilley's Yin Yoga DVD and watched the 2-hour course included in the DVD set. Yin Yoga distinguishes itself from other yogas by the fact that it stresses the joints of the body, not the muscle, partially to increase the hyaluronic acid in the synovial fluid present in the joints. As part of his course, Grilley mentions that when we create a rhythm and a repetition to an exercise that focuses on the joints, we will undoubtedly get hurt. When he said that, I immediately thought about " Cat Cow " in Kundalini Yoga, where we flex the spine up and down and our head goes up and down in the opposite direction. Does this mean that Kundalini Yoga is in opposition to Yin Yoga? It just sounds like when we do " Cat Cow " for 5 minutes or so that we're undoubtedly causing injury to ourselves, since it works on the joints of our spine in a repeated, rhythmic fashion? > > Thank you, > > Nadh Singh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Kundalini-Yoga , " terrarium44 " <terrarium44 wrote: > > Sat Nam dear yogic family, > > I've recently delved into Yin Yoga since I was interested in how it dealt with the deeper aspects of yoga practice, i.e. affecting the connective tissue of the body instead of hatha yoga's obession with the muscle. As part of my research, I bought Paul Grilley's Yin Yoga DVD and watched the 2-hour course included in the DVD set. Yin Yoga distinguishes itself from other yogas by the fact that it stresses the joints of the body, not the muscle, partially to increase the hyaluronic acid in the synovial fluid present in the joints. As part of his course, Grilley mentions that when we create a rhythm and a repetition to an exercise that focuses on the joints, we will undoubtedly get hurt. When he said that, I immediately thought about " Cat Cow " in Kundalini Yoga, where we flex the spine up and down and our head goes up and down in the opposite direction. Does this mean that Kundalini Yoga is in opposition to Yin Yoga? It just sounds like when we do " Cat Cow " for 5 minutes or so that we're undoubtedly causing injury to ourselves, since it works on the joints of our spine in a repeated, rhythmic fashion? > > Thank you, > > Nadh Singh > Dear Nada Singh Let's start out with some facts. Joints & muscles work together. Increasing a specific element in Synovial fluid is neither beneficial, nor physiologically possible. Cat Cow does not " undoutably " create spinal damage. We are perfect as we are, with our joint fluid, muscles, ligaments, tendons, ear lobes, fat & brain. We all want to avoid undue inflammation of ALL structures. There is no yoga that is only for joints 0r for muscles, this is not possible. Kundalini Yoga uses all these structures, as well as the nervous system & that other stuff: the spirit / soul. Kundalini Yoga is not a physically centered path. Hatha yoga is. It is all good, just different methods. Yin yoga is gentle hatha yoga. Joints have a pathway of motion, that is guided by the muscles, controlled by the Nervous system, which is under the command of the Soul/spirit. When you move the spine for several minutes in " normal motions " the muscles, bones, ligaments, tendons, blood vessels and nervous system ALL participate in this constant, smooth motion. Damage is only done if normal physiological motion develops into abnormal motion, such as turning your foot backwards. Most yoga, uses normal motion. All yoga has a slightly different way to do it. Loose or abnormal motions are not beneficial. Sat Nam & Wahe Guru! Dr Hari S.S. Khalsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Sat Nam What an excellent response re yin yoga, and kundalini yoga cat-cows; i love that we have such a resource of knowledgeable and sincere practitioners who are here to help us. Thank you both so much for raising this. I think on the whole knowledge of postures in kundalini yoga is pretty poor, and i love to see more of this debate and information reaching us teachers. Sat Nam and blessings from Har Hari Kaur Sukhmani Centre Cambridge UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I think it sounds like Kundalini is definitely in opposition to Yin Yoga. I have heard very good things about Grilley but we all need to realized there are MANY approaches to yoga out there., I also practice Ashtanga besides Kundalini and people get injured there, myself included, and so far I have not felt any injury from Kundalini, even nearly 25 years into it! Time will tell but ultimately yoga is to keep the machine, mind, body and spirit (breath) working better!...and be mindful of HOW we do it, no matter the form. Sat Nam Amrita www.sewallhouse.com Simplicity in a Complex World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Great explanations everyone. My only addition is a couple things: 1) When you get " tennis elbow " - is this the kind of repetitive joint-related injury that perhaps this DVD was alluding to? Because I recall in a class just recently my teacher was telling me as we were doing an exercise... " This is good for preventing tennis elbow, too " . Unfortunately, I forgot the exercise... But I think the general point is, that many of the postures and sets we do pinpoint areas and joints to improve flexibility and functionality, and if not done obsessively with fanaticism, it should not hurt them. 2) Golf. Twisting of the spine. Extreme torques. All sorts of old dudes playing it. Seems like their spines are ok. Some spinal twists out on a nature walk, anyone? Just my 2-Rupees... -Fateh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Nadh Singh, In addition to Kundalini Yoga I also practice and teach a Russian method, Vaganova ballet. They combine it with a Stretch class that is closer to Kundalini Yoga than any class (including Yoga classes in the States) that I have ever seen. They use this training on their Olympic athletes: the gymnatsts, skaters, and ballet dancers. They also do cat/cow repeatedly, building the speed. If you think back to the times when the Russians used to sweep the Olympics, (Olga Korbut comes to mind,) American coaches didn't have access to the training and the government support that the athletes in the Eastern Block countries did. My feeling is that these teachers (from the East) have been miles ahead of us for years. Sometimes Westerners think other methods are " unsafe " but if you practice for say 20 or 30 years, you tap into another dimension of healing and results. Nadia was another gymnast who showed this mastery and amazing ability. To experience it, you have to get out of your head, and into your body. It's what artists do. Satpal Kaur > Sat Nam dear yogic family, > > I've recently delved into Yin Yoga since I was interested in how it dealt with the deeper aspects of yoga practice, i.e. affecting the connective tissue of the body instead of hatha yoga's obession with the muscle. As part of my research, I bought Paul Grilley's Yin Yoga DVD and watched the 2-hour course included in the DVD set. Yin Yoga distinguishes itself from other yogas by the fact that it stresses the joints of the body, not the muscle, partially to increase the hyaluronic acid in the synovial fluid present in the joints. As part of his course, Grilley mentions that when we create a rhythm and a repetition to an exercise that focuses on the joints, we will undoubtedly get hurt. When he said that, I immediately thought about " Cat Cow " in Kundalini Yoga, where we flex the spine up and down and our head goes up and down in the opposite direction. Does this mean that Kundalini Yoga is in opposition to Yin Yoga? It just sounds like when we do " Cat Cow " for 5 minutes or so that we're undoubtedly causing injury to ourselves, since it works on the joints of our spine in a repeated, rhythmic fashion? > > Thank you, > > Nadh Singh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 -Dear All I love this question. In the early days it was only Kundalini Yoga and that was it. When I realized that our weakes point was our allignment I strarted taking Anusara and that was 11 years ago. there is nothing like Kundalini but studying Anusara has helped me help my students all over the world with thier postures inside Kundalini yoga. I also started doing it because my bone density wasn't great. Doing arm balances and using my body weight as weights has helped. Kundalini Yoga is my linage, my love and I will do whatever it takes to support that and make things deeper and better for my students. Blessings Gurutej Gurutej follow me www.twitter.com/gurutej www.theenergygurus.com www.gurutej.com follow me http://www.theenergyguru.blogspot.com/ " Diamonds or Dust the choice is yours both are created by pressure " . What do you do with yours? 310-734-6776 -- In Kundalini-Yoga , har hari kaur <harharikaur wrote: > > Sat Nam > > What an excellent response re yin yoga, and kundalini yoga cat-cows; > i love that we have such a resource of knowledgeable and sincere > practitioners who are here to help us. > > Thank you both so much for raising this. > > I think on the whole knowledge of postures in kundalini yoga is > pretty poor, and i love to see more of this debate and information > reaching us teachers. > > > Sat Nam and blessings from > Har Hari Kaur > Sukhmani Centre > Cambridge > UK > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Sat Nam, Fateh and everybody,I think the key phrase in your message is "if not done obsessively and with fanaticism, it should not hurt them." I've recently begun practicing Kundalini Yoga in a gentler way, trying to pay more attention to my body to avoid injury. For example, when doing a spinal twist, rather than using lots of muscle and building up great speed, I let my breath gently power the twist, keeping my spine straight while trying to avoid creating tension.I saw a KY video where the teacher told the students to keep speeding up their spinal twists, faster, faster, until they were moving "quick like a spinning top." Then I took an anatomy class about the back, where the teacher cautioned against such activity due to the restricted structure of the lower vertebrae. I think it's important to find a balance.Simran Great explanations everyone.My only addition is a couple things:1) When you get "tennis elbow" - is this the kind of repetitive joint-related injury that perhaps this DVD was alluding to? Because I recall in a class just recently my teacher was telling me as we were doing an exercise... "This is good for preventing tennis elbow, too". Unfortunately, I forgot the exercise... But I think the general point is, that many of the postures and sets we do pinpoint areas and joints to improve flexibility and functionality, and if not done obsessively with fanaticism, it should not hurt them.2) Golf. Twisting of the spine. Extreme torques. All sorts of old dudes playing it. Seems like their spines are ok. Some spinal twists out on a nature walk, anyone? Just my 2-Rupees...-Fateh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sat Nam, No, the Yin Yoga DVD was referring to someone pulling their head back in a repetitive motion; at that point, Grilley said " if you do this often enough, you'll inevitably end up hurting yourself " ; that immediately made me think of the repetitive nature of Kundalini Yoga; we don't really hold poses, like they do in Yin Yoga--KY is often made up of a simple pose repeated for a certain time. This is when I thought to myself if these repetitive postures, like cat-cow, would actually be good for us. From what I've read so far, this isn't the case. I can't comment on your second addition, since I'm not knowledgeable enough (yet). LOL! Blessings, Nadh Kundalini-Yoga , " filipstoj " <filipfilip wrote: > > Great explanations everyone. > > My only addition is a couple things: > > 1) When you get " tennis elbow " - is this the kind of repetitive joint-related injury that perhaps this DVD was alluding to? > > Because I recall in a class just recently my teacher was telling me as we were doing an exercise... " This is good for preventing tennis elbow, too " . Unfortunately, I forgot the exercise... But I think the general point is, that many of the postures and sets we do pinpoint areas and joints to improve flexibility and functionality, and if not done obsessively with fanaticism, it should not hurt them. > > 2) Golf. Twisting of the spine. Extreme torques. All sorts of old dudes playing it. Seems like their spines are ok. Some spinal twists out on a nature walk, anyone? > > Just my 2-Rupees... > > -Fateh. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Something else just came to mind. Energy release is not injury! If we have congested emotional pain stored in the fascia, it will come out as we practice yoga. This is part of the healing process. At different times in my life when I overdid BIkram Yoga, The Five Tibetans, Vaganova Ballet or Kundalini Yoga, I was flat on my back, totally wiped out. It was not that the style of yoga that had caused the pain, it was because I didn't work gradually and methodically. I had the physical strength and stamina, but on other levels I couldn't handle it. I blew out my circuits. With energy release, if you rest, take hot baths, practice self-care, and nurturing, usually the pain will vanish. With a physical injury, (like a broken leg,) the bone and physical area has to heal. In the movie The Karate Kid, the master has his student paint the fence, every day, before he will teach him any karate. I so appreciate this now. The importance of grounding, patience, respect, etc... Satpal Kaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Kundalini-Yoga , " terrarium44 " <terrarium44 wrote: Sat Nam Kundalini Yoga uses a different model than Hatha Yoga. First of all the movement have to be smooth and rhythmic. Also, the joints are made to move. We are made to walk many miles so we can move joints like the knees alot. Look at martial artists. They do alot of punching. If we were to apply Grilley's statement to that, there would be no great martial artists. We are given kriyas and other exercises that may counteract any adverse stress on certain parts of the body. Twop of the best are shoulderstand and plough. They can alleviate alot of pressures on the body. We need to do the whole kriya to get the " completed action " of the kriya. Also, stress is caused by other factors such as diet and mental stress, which yoga addresses so we need the whole body concept and not just look at one or two exercises. I personally have never been injured doing yoga and find that cat and cow and spinal flexes loosen my spine. If a certain exercise aggravates a certain part of the body, do not do the exercise of do as much as possible. Listen to your body. GuruBandhu > Sat Nam, > > No, the Yin Yoga DVD was referring to someone pulling their head back in a repetitive motion; at that point, Grilley said " if you do this often enough, you'll inevitably end up hurting yourself " ; that immediately made me think of the repetitive nature of Kundalini Yoga; we don't really hold poses, like they do in Yin Yoga--KY is often made up of a simple pose repeated for a certain time. This is when I thought to myself if these repetitive postures, like cat-cow, would actually be good for us. From what I've read so far, this isn't the case. > > I can't comment on your second addition, since I'm not knowledgeable enough (yet). LOL! > > Blessings, > > Nadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 If the guy on the yin yoga DVD said pulling your head back repeatedly would cause you to hurt yourself, he may have been referring to hyperextension of the neck, or the fact that you don't want to overexaggerate the neck's curvature, which on most people as we get older is exaggerated and those motions can be more problmeatic for your discs. Guru Beant Kaur Bridget Kamke, LMT Kundalini Yoga Teacher Licensed Massage Therapist Children's Book Author www.infinipede.com __________ Need Medical Insurance? Click here for affordable quotes. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHFU41GRcYgQXNYg9aT9kDDExt8bUZ\ 9Whvg8Y86ZpH6tC0WwMfwUg/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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