Gay marriage

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Sunderta (and Siri Bandhu),

I loved reading your response to Hannah's question. You came from a

very integrated and Yogic place. The, perhaps long, internal process

still has to take place. It is through embracing the fears in the now

and not suppressing them, and acknowledging and learning from the past

hurts while applying this remarkably complete technology that joy,

strength and self possession will have the last word, and not the

grief.

 

While I'm hetero, I am a double Pisces, and some say Triple,

with Libra rising....pretty hard configuration to fit into a male body.

Yogiji even said the hardest sign for a man to be born under is Pisces.

So I had a pretty long conversation over the years about where's my

place and who am I. We have both polarities within us and no one can be

complete unless they can melt the two together, somehow...... In that

regard, coming into this Dharma was a very healthy decision. It's very

hard to find clean male models to learn from and emulate in this

western society.

 

Thanks again for your clarity and contribution on this subject.

 

Blessings,

Dharam

Millis, MA

www.khalsamen.com

www.gongsongs.com

 

 

 

Sunderta Kaur wrote:

[Guest guest]

Dear Hannah, Sunderta and Siri Bandhu,

 

Thank you for raising and expanding on this issue. It has been an on and off

question for me for quite a long time.

 

During the 'Level 2 - Consciouss Relationships' week, I did feel at quite a few

points that I couldnt relate to the teachings as a gay woman.

 

With Love and Light,

 

Sat Sundri Kaur

UK

 

Kundalini-Yoga , " siribandhu " <siribandhu wrote:

>

> Dear Sundertaji,

>

> Thank you for your informative reply. You have brought clear light to the

question.

> There is also a group in the council that is for gay consideration or

whatever. How does one sanction the rights of another? By not infringing on

their rights that's how one sanctions the rights of the other. Therefore, there

is no action.

>

> As for the non-action of the 3HO group, the commitment to kundalini is a

commitment to the Self and to the Soul. Therefore, no one outside of you can do

it for you.

> We have no rainbow banners flying. There are no KY banners flying either. The

acceptance of the Self isn't easy, whatever your life choices are. Your choices

are your choices and only you live with them.

>

> Once as a woman, I thought that men had it better. When I took a good look, I

realized it isn't better, just different. It is the same with straights and

gays. When gays say " We're not accepted by (whoever, name goes here). " It just

isn't true. How do you know what I am thinking unless I am asked?

>

> This isn't to say there isn't prejudice of all kinds even in the KY community.

We are all here because we are trying. We are not here because we have it " all

figured out. "

> Blanket remarks are silly and extremely lacking in the compassion that is

being requested.

>

> Many of us are straight, gay, lesbian, bi, transgendered and so are our

children, parents, aunts and uncles. So what?

>

> When you can find a partner who treats you well and supports you in your path

and in your soul, this is rare indeed.

>

> " I don't care who or what you are, just don't pretend you are what you

aren't, " is my mantra on this or any other subject.

> Kind regards,

> Siri Bandhu

> Humble Moderator

> www.ottawaweddingsyourway.com

>

>

>

>

> - In Kundalini-Yoga , " Sunderta Kaur " <grateful2day@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Hannah,

> > I am glad you raised this question of the 3HO stance on Gays. I wonder if

anyone responded to it? I went through teacher training a few years ago and have

immersed myself into the 3HO community. I took Sikh vows last summer at Summer

Solstice and am considering taking Amrit, the full Sikh baptism. I wear bana and

a turban in public and am living as a Sikh. I am also an out Lesbian and have

been for 25 years. Did you know that there is a group of GLBT people associated

with 3HO who have formed to support one another around questions such as yours?

We are called the Rainbow Sangat and I can give you the information for our

if you don't already have it.

> >

> > I have heard that Yogiji said a lot of different things about homosexuality.

Some of it was positive and some of it negative. I don't know that Yogi Bhajan

was clear, himself, on where he stood on homosexuality. I wonder if some of his

cultural biases didn't influence his position. It appears to me that his ideas

were evolving over time. Quite frankly, I just think he didn't quite know what

to do with us. And I believe that he also knew that homosexuality was a

problematic social issue that had the potential of being divisive but would

ultimately become less and less of an issue. I choose to believe that he knew

that homophobic beliefs would not be sustainable in The Aquarian Age and so he

did not take a stand on homosexuality, but instead left it up to us to figure

out. After all, many problems, when left alone, just fall away. So he left it up

to the shifting consciousness of the Aquarian Age to take care of this issue and

for us to figure out.

> >

> > As for the Humanology teachings, they are definitely very heterosexist. And

I have found that the 3HO community in general is very heterosexist. At Solstice

there is very much a " Don't ask, don't tell " feel unlike anything I have

experienced before. The feeling of invisibility is stifling. But I managed to

find other glbt people and have not tried to hide my sexuality in any way. In

the innocence of many of the heterosexual members of the community, they are

oblivious to this fact. Most people I have encountered honestly believe that it

is a supportive community where everyone is welcome and they don't understand

why anyone would feel insecure. Especially since they, themselves, don't have

any issues personally with glbt people and like to think of themselves as

supportive. For many of them, it is simply a non-issue. But for those of us

coming in to such a community it can feel very unsafe, especially when we have a

long history of being welcomed into communities that then try to change us or

exile us. For what it's worth, I personally have not experienced any outward

hostility, verbal or otherwise from anyone in 3HO or Sikh Dharma. And I think

that is something these organizations should be proud of. There are some who

have presented some ridiculously ignorant ideas. But you get that everywhere.

> > One thing I will say about this community is that if you have issues that

you are struggling with around your sexuality people are not likely to rush in

to save you from such a gift. This is true about other issues you may be

struggling with as well. This may be part of why the community can seem

unwelcoming at first. People will sympathize, but they don't tend to interfere

in your process. I think this is a good thing.

> >

> > What I have come to with the Humanology teachings is that I take them for

what they are worth, a heterosexual teacher, teaching to heterosexuals about

heterosexuality. I love the teachings, but I don't look to them for any kind of

approval or recognition of my existence or identity. It is such a primal thing

to come to this community and technology with a longing to belong. I think

everyone brings that with them. But as a lesbian I need to be realistic. Who is

really qualified to teach me about being a Lesbian? The answer is other

Lesbians. So I take our obvious omissions and the unanswered questions with a

grain of salt.

> >

> > One thing Yogi Bhajan was clear on is that to be a KY teacher or to be a

Sikh it was up to the individual to initiate themselves. There's this way in

which as glbt people we have learned to somehow ask for the permission of

heterosexual people to be who we are. And then if we don't get that, we feel

hurt, angry and abused. But in a way we set ourselves up for it. I am grateful

that I get to initiate myself. Because it means that I don't have to ask anyone

else's permission. I believe that my soul doesn't have a sexuality or a sexual

orientation. And my sexual orientation is not WHO I truly am anyways. The course

my soul charts is between me and God, and no one else can either give me

permission or approval any more than they can stand in my way, although some

people may certainly try.

> >

> > I hope this helps. I thought your questions deserved a response. And yet, I

don't know that anyone really feels qualified to respond. It may be that there

are no simple or blanket answers. Perhaps the answers need to be lived instead.

I have tried to speak on behalf of myself and my experiences and not on behalf

of anyone else or the communities in general. I hope what I have said is taken

in that spirit.

> >

> > Sat Nam,

> > Sunderta Kaur

> >

> >

> > Kundalini-Yoga , Hannah <hannahakent@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear group -- I only have a phone as a computer right now so my editing

abilities are limited and I initially sent this message from my other

account... If you have a moment please scroll down ... To the next " dear group "

....

> > >

> > > Thank you ,

> > >

> > > Hannah

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear group,

> > >

> > > I agave gone through the KRI level 1 kundalini teacher training (in

2005), and find myself deeply drawn to not only the teachings of yogi bhajan,

but also the sikh identity.

> > >

> > > However, what I have read so far and what I fear is that gays and lesbians

are not understood or respected within the yogi bhajan world ... That it is

explained as a previous life mixed up with the present etc. And basically

invalidated as a genuine reality/identity..

> > >

> > > My question/statement/confusion is this ...

> > >

> > > While I agree that many people both gay and straight could learn from the

modesty and grace of which yogi bhajan speaks ... I'm afraid he neglects to take

in the complexities of biology ... What then is a transsex or dualy sexed person

(one born with both sex parts)?

> > >

> > > And if god has created men with woman parts and women with man parts (to

put it plainly) could She have created men with woman's brains woman's minds and

so forth. In addition could not also our bodies be seen as less important than

our true souls and our true soulmates?

> > >

> > > But i will step off my soap box ending with this final question.

> > >

> > > What is the 3ho stance on gay marraige, gay identity and gay rights?

> > >

> > > Could textual recommendations, lectures be suggested? To give me more

targeted research?

> > >

> > > Thank you in advance for your time and thoughtful responses,

> > >

> > > Hannah

> > >

> >

>