Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Hola group, I wouldn’t let myself get hung up on the generic description of God as a male.. the english translations are mid 20th century and gender-politically-correct use of language in Europe/ north America is relatively recent also... I know several people who have tried their hand at non-gender-specific translations, like shakta kaur’s jaap sahib, very beautiful.. conversely, one may ask the question, if god is always described as the husband, how do the brothers feel about being the bride..? eastern worldview sees all souls as ‘female’ – Shakti energy, movable, creative, expressive – only in relation to the non-moving, stoic, stable, unchanging face of god as ‘male’.. of course, god being everything is male and female – just in this comparison of purkha and prakriti god would end up as the male polarity and all people, all of life, all beings, all elements, etc. as Shakti expression = female.. it is fine to reframe things on your own terms, all good language dialogue and reinvention does that.. the beautiful part of siri guru granth sahib is that again and again it takes us into a bhakti yoga expression, the gurus believed it was easier to find ‘god’ through love than through intellectual pursuit, dialectic, work, etc.. finally, the song that’s always recommended for finding - and even in their absence ‘grooming’, finishing and educating ‘the one for you’ – is ‘mera man lochai.. there are many lovely versions around.. the idea the siri guru granth sahib extols is – if we can do the pratyahar of tying all to god and being in a state of love worship, then the earthly beloved can also materialise.. s/he will then be part of the loving connectedness with god.. and it’s a good habit, as even then, with the dearly beloved by your side, the god relationship wants to have pride of place.. Sat Nam, pritam hari kaur, Johannesburg, south africa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Dear Pritam Hari Kaur, I am not sure that the eastern worldview sees all souls as female. The soul doesn't have a gender. There are also many Indian philosophies on creation, and anyway prakriti and purusha are manifested much lower down than say Narayana with Sri Shakti, Sadashiva with Bhu Shakti and Parabrahma with Iccha Shakti. As a general rule the deity is male and the power is female. So Guru or Jupiter is male and the shakti of the Guru or Jupiter's consort is Tara. So we could say that Shakti is Shiva, or Shiva is Shakti. But the gender difference is not like this, all gender difference is just the play of shakti. Or all gender difference is the manifestation of Shiva. The Soul always has this 'maleness' associated with it but only as Karaka or the real Doer wether you are male or female, your form whatever gender is shakti. A lot depends on your perspective, Shaktas will only acknowledge the feminine power, to them Shiva is totally subservient to Shakti. To them Shiva is just a point, and all his intelligence and thinking and moving is Shakti, everything we could ever care about. To Shivaites the reverse is true and Shiva is the supreme lord. So male and female on this scale just doesn't exist, they are simply ways to get around the problem of explaining things. All blessings as always, Sukhnivas Kundalini-Yoga , " Pritam Hari Kaur " <khalsa wrote: > > Hola group, I wouldn't let myself get hung up on the generic description of > God as a male.. the english translations are mid 20th century and > gender-politically-correct use of language in Europe/ north America is > relatively recent also... I know several people who have tried their hand at > non-gender-specific translations, like shakta kaur's jaap sahib, very > beautiful.. conversely, one may ask the question, if god is always described > as the husband, how do the brothers feel about being the bride..? eastern > worldview sees all souls as 'female' - Shakti energy, movable, creative, > expressive - only in relation to the non-moving, stoic, stable, unchanging > face of god as 'male'.. of course, god being everything is male and female - > just in this comparison of purkha and prakriti god would end up as the male > polarity and all people, all of life, all beings, all elements, etc. as > Shakti expression = female.. it is fine to reframe things on your own > terms, all good language dialogue and reinvention does that.. the beautiful > part of siri guru granth sahib is that again and again it takes us into a > bhakti yoga expression, the gurus believed it was easier to find 'god' > through love than through intellectual pursuit, dialectic, work, etc.. > finally, the song that's always recommended for finding - and even in their > absence 'grooming', finishing and educating 'the one for you' - is 'mera man > lochai.. there are many lovely versions around.. the idea the siri guru > granth sahib extols is - if we can do the pratyahar of tying all to god and > being in a state of love worship, then the earthly beloved can also > materialise.. s/he will then be part of the loving connectedness with god.. > and it's a good habit, as even then, with the dearly beloved by your side, > the god relationship wants to have pride of place.. > > Sat Nam, pritam hari kaur, Johannesburg, south africa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Sat Nam, Ji what a beautiful response! you remind me of a conversation I had today, about yin & yang - how each are interrelated and mutually dependent. They cannot exist without the other! and yet they are illusory, in the greater scheme of things, only necessary constructs to help one penetrate the core of existence ... where all is ONE. EK ONG KAR SAT NAM SIRI WAHE GURU Hari Ram Singh Kundalini-Yoga , " beautiful22 " <22taro wrote: > > Dear Pritam Hari Kaur, > I am not sure that the eastern worldview sees all souls as female. > The soul doesn't have a gender. > There are also many Indian philosophies on creation, and anyway prakriti and purusha are manifested much lower down than say Narayana with Sri Shakti, Sadashiva with Bhu Shakti and Parabrahma with Iccha Shakti. > > As a general rule the deity is male and the power is female. So Guru or Jupiter is male and the shakti of the Guru or Jupiter's consort is Tara. > So we could say that Shakti is Shiva, or Shiva is Shakti. > But the gender difference is not like this, all gender difference is just the play of shakti. Or all gender difference is the manifestation of Shiva. > > The Soul always has this 'maleness' associated with it but only as Karaka or the real Doer wether you are male or female, your form whatever gender is shakti. > > A lot depends on your perspective, Shaktas will only acknowledge the feminine power, to them Shiva is totally subservient to Shakti. To them Shiva is just a point, and all his intelligence and thinking and moving is Shakti, everything we could ever care about. > > To Shivaites the reverse is true and Shiva is the supreme lord. > > So male and female on this scale just doesn't exist, they are simply ways to get around the problem of explaining things. > > All blessings as always, > Sukhnivas > > > > > > Kundalini-Yoga , " Pritam Hari Kaur " <khalsa@> wrote: > > > > Hola group, I wouldn't let myself get hung up on the generic description of > > God as a male.. the english translations are mid 20th century and > > gender-politically-correct use of language in Europe/ north America is > > relatively recent also... I know several people who have tried their hand at > > non-gender-specific translations, like shakta kaur's jaap sahib, very > > beautiful.. conversely, one may ask the question, if god is always described > > as the husband, how do the brothers feel about being the bride..? eastern > > worldview sees all souls as 'female' - Shakti energy, movable, creative, > > expressive - only in relation to the non-moving, stoic, stable, unchanging > > face of god as 'male'.. of course, god being everything is male and female - > > just in this comparison of purkha and prakriti god would end up as the male > > polarity and all people, all of life, all beings, all elements, etc. as > > Shakti expression = female.. it is fine to reframe things on your own > > terms, all good language dialogue and reinvention does that.. the beautiful > > part of siri guru granth sahib is that again and again it takes us into a > > bhakti yoga expression, the gurus believed it was easier to find 'god' > > through love than through intellectual pursuit, dialectic, work, etc.. > > finally, the song that's always recommended for finding - and even in their > > absence 'grooming', finishing and educating 'the one for you' - is 'mera man > > lochai.. there are many lovely versions around.. the idea the siri guru > > granth sahib extols is - if we can do the pratyahar of tying all to god and > > being in a state of love worship, then the earthly beloved can also > > materialise.. s/he will then be part of the loving connectedness with god.. > > and it's a good habit, as even then, with the dearly beloved by your side, > > the god relationship wants to have pride of place.. > > > > Sat Nam, pritam hari kaur, Johannesburg, south africa > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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