Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Mr. David Goulet, Could you please provide a link to Dr. Candace Pert's study? I am putting on a Yoga Therapy Conference in San Francisco and would like to get in touch with such study as part of the materials I'm putting together to educate the public about the therapeutic effects of Yoga. I would also be interested in knowing where are you located and to know if you'd be interested in sharing your knowledge regarding Breast Cancer with the San Francisco Bay Area practitoners, but mostely with the general public. As you might know, Marin County (the County next to San Francisco County) hosts the highest level of Breast Cancer in USA, and ooe of the highest in the world. My conference presents an entire track on Cancer with different lectures and classes, also including a specifically designed menu by some Conscious Food caterers. Any information regarding this topic would be greatly appreciated. Yours in Yoga Antonio Sausys Conference Director >> To Dr. Ananda, and others in this group, >> >> >> >> As a student of Swami Gitananda’s in 1971 and 72 now with 34 years of >> experience in the practice of the Science of Yoga I have to say that >> Yoga >> is >> or can be more scientific than Western medicine. The experimental >> approach >> can be applied to our own practice, with observations constantly done in >> the >> methods of swadhiyaya, and conclusions drawn over time. >> >> >> >> Swamiji once stated to us that there was no such thing as an “incurable” >> disease. When I said that to some of my students in the mid-seventies, I >> was >> respectfully challenged by one of them by way of a plea for help. She >> had >> been diagnosed with advanced breast cancer which had spread into the >> lymphatic system, and was scheduled for surgery in three days. >> >> >> >> I set up an experiment for her, one in which I led her through a very >> intense yoga sadhana for a two week period. (The surgery was declined.) >> This was then followed up with daily practice as maintenance. After one >> month Western science was used as a check up, with the student going for >> a >> full examination by different doctors. Results showed no cancer to be >> found. >> >> >> >> This was my first experiment, but as we know in science it takes more >> than >> one result to come up with a valid conclusion. I have since repeated the >> experiment several times with various terminal cancer patients. In six >> cases >> out of six the cancer went into remission. This does constitute validity >> to >> the Western scientific mind. It is ironic and somewhat pitiful that in >> all >> cases the medical records were either denied, destroyed or mysteriously >> deleted from the hospital computers. Life in the West can be such a >> paradox. >> >> >> >> I thought at the onset that the medical community would take note and >> perhaps instigate some research, but no one was even curious about how >> the >> “remissions” had been brought on. I was reminded many times of Swamiji’s >> criticisms about the financial motives of the medical hierarchy. Cancer >> research is a multi billion dollar industry, and a simple cure would >> destroy >> it. >> >> >> >> I rarely do these experiments anymore, preferring now to teach young >> people >> about the miraculous preventative powers that yoga develops in its >> practitioners. Of course there is no proof to be had that any of these >> young >> people would ever have had cancer. No proof and no profit here. >> >> >> >> Outside of the medical establishment there is wonderful research being >> done, >> such as by Dr. Candace Pert who has proven that there is a very strong >> link >> between our thoughts and our health through the body and brain chemistry >> of >> the neuro-peptides. Her research has shown that the old yogic axiom >> “mind >> over matter” is a reality. Praise be to the scientists, within the yoga >> world or not, who search to discover the truth, profit or not. >> >> >> >> David Goulet >> >> >> >> Chakra Yoga Center, Canada >> >> Pyramid Yoga Center, Thailand >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Bhavanani [yognat2001] >> Friday, October 01, 2004 1:47 AM >> >> Yoga Research what are we doing? >> >> >> >> >> >> Yoga Research –what are we doing? >> >> This is a very vital question that has been asked by one of our students >> (TJ) who has been disillusioned with his medical studies >> >> I give below his mail as well as responses from Dr R Nagarathna (Dean, >> Division of Yoga and Life Sciences, SVYASA, Bangalore and Chief Medical >> Officer, SVYASA), Dr MV Bhole, (retired director of research at >> Kaivalyadhama, one of India’s oldest Yoga institutions at Lonavla, >> Maharastra), Dr Kaviraja Udupa, Senior Resident Physiology, JIPMER, >> Pondicherry and myself. I also add on a mail from Prof R Narasimhan the >> retired Director Professor and Head, Dept of Pathology at JIPMER who is >> presently with the Ramachandra Medical Institute at Chennai. >> >> I welcome all of you to take part in this discussion and would be >> interested >> to hear from the medical doctors and yoga scientists on this group as >> well >> as other sadhaks on this path >> >> Ananda >> >> - >> >> From TJ >> >> I have been blessed to be part of an academic establishment that keeps >> its >> doors open to its students. It's funny, I made the decision to " leave " >> medicine (or this version of it) some time ago, but actually overcome >> the >> inertia of my present 3 or so weeks ago. For the past 2 weeks, I’ve been >> getting everything in order to complete my second year of medical school >> and >> take my leave. >> >> Now that I’ve closed these doors (in a way that I can re-open them when >> and >> should I chose to), I am at my greatest period of uncertainty as to >> which >> option to pursue. My fear is that by taking leave to discover my most >> realized path (simplifying my goals and intentions) I am creating a >> greater >> uncertainty as I try to assess what (or which) that path is. >> >> >> >> How do you view your role as a researcher? >> >> >> >> Do you feel like you are trying to " prove " phenomena that are already >> known >> to be " true " ; do you feel like you're reducing yoga to fit current >> paradigms? >> >> >> >> Please do not see these questions as an attack on your research. As >> someone >> who's felt both the synergy and conflict between so-called eastern and >> western medicine, as someone who sees the advantages and disadvantages >> to >> " good " scientific research methods - randomization, blinding, setting >> controls for creating specific targeted therapies, I am just always left >> with the feeling that scientific research forces yoga to be too small in >> order to fit into its own conception of what knowledge is, its own scope >> that seeks greater reduction, not greater harmony or totality. How do >> you >> see " good, useable " data? I am so curious on this subject. >> >> I do believe that I can walk the path of a scientific healer and a yogi >> simultaneously. Again, it’s this question of how. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> From Dr Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani, Chairman ICYER, Pondicherry >> >> It was interesting to read your mail and I am putting your question on >> the >> groups for answers from the other Yoga scientists that are out there in >> the >> cyber space with us >> >> I am happy that you count your blessings for such an attitude (not so >> common >> in this day and age) will help you throughout your whole life >> >> Crossroads are always a place to be careful and there will be >> undoubtedly >> lots of uncertainly. >> >> It is however important to keep moving and not stay at the cross road >> forever! >> >> To think is good but to act is better! >> >> >> >> Yoga research is still in its infancy and has to face a lot of problems >> >> It is true that modern science tries to make yoga smaller in order to >> make >> it fit the demands of science. Most scientists are looking for one asana >> to >> cure one disease just as there is a pill for every ill! >> >> We still don’t have the facilities to research the higher aspects of >> yoga >> and most research has been on the Asana, Pranayama and to some extent on >> the >> meditative and so called meditation techniques such as TM >> >> I believe that we have to first start within the system and follow its >> rules >> and guidelines- one must learn to play by the rules of the game. Once we >> have mastered the game then we can go beyond the rules and make our own >> ones! >> >> Later on, I feel we can expand the process to include other aspects of >> yoga >> >> Yoga views man as a multilayered being while science looks upon him as a >> single layered entity >> >> We have to start someplace and the present is the place to start >> >> It is important to determine the physiological and psychological >> benefits >> of >> various yogic practices on their own as well as in combination in order >> to >> come upon a wholistic view in later years >> >> Indian researchers are limited by finance, time and facilities and so >> most >> of the research in India (and there has been a lot) has been in the very >> basic aspects of yoga >> >> CCRYN does a great job in funding yoga research but is still much >> disorganized as seen in most governmental bodies. They need to take more >> initiative in coordinating the research in different centers rather than >> just handing out money to different people. >> >> Yoga is a method of going inwards, within this and us is very difficult >> if >> not impossible to study using the tools of traditional scientific >> research >> >> The necessity of the hour is to legitimize yoga practices in the eyes of >> the >> scientific community who tend to dismiss the benefits otherwise is a >> disdainful manner >> >> It is also important that more scientific minded persons take up yoga >> and >> more yogis go into the study of science so that we can build a bridge >> between these two great aspects of our civilization. >> >> Swamiji always stimulated his students to take up a study of science in >> order to present the yogic teachings in a modern scientific manner and >> not >> as some mumbo jumbo techniques. I find many yoga teachers treating >> patients >> of various diseases about which they themselves have not a clue! I feel >> that >> is simple quackery and a crime against humanity. >> >> I feel that Swamiji’s vision of Scientific Yoga is the goal towards >> which >> we >> must work with renewed vigor and determination. >> >> I hope that more of the yoga scientists out there in the group will >> respond >> with their views on this topic that is also very close to my heart >> >> Yours in Yoga, >> >> Ananda >> >> >> >> From Dr R Nagarathna, Dean, Division of Yoga and Life Sciences, SVYASA, >> Bangalore and Chief Medical Officer, SVYASA >> >> >> >> Dear Dr. Ananda, >> >> Thanks for this fundamental query. >> >> I believe the same way as you say. One VC of Bangalore University once >> said >> that we are trying to validate the 5000 years old science by a 500 years >> old >> modern science. Well we need to do research in this framework to win the >> confidence of the world at large so that they can listen to what you >> want >> to >> say. >> >> It is fascinating to know how the modern science has been able to >> unravel >> the mysteries of the universe by such strict way of probing and not >> accepting anything without subjecting to very rigorous scrutiny. >> Otherwise >> we would still have been in the age of spirits, leeches, and the >> so-called >> Kakataliya nyaya would have flourished. But as we have come this far we >> have >> to go further ahead by dropping out the excess of this rigor and go to >> something, which is beyond science and logic. Here was the advantage of >> the >> oriental seers who had best of both and also could see what should be >> the >> direction in which research should go to see a healthy and happy >> society. >> They also seems to have known where they should not do too much of >> probing >> and move on to go beyond logic. >> >> Our aim should be to go the way that the modern science has gone, gain >> their >> acceptance and then blow our trumpet about all that we are talking about >> >> -- Namely >> >> 1validity and reproducibility of internal experiences to be accepted >> >> 2.not only look for objective gadget oriented evidence, >> >> 3.the so-called placebo effect now being considered discardable effect >> to >> be >> researched into etc. >> >> As you can see we in our center have at least been able to retain some >> part >> of the holistic approach of yoga by calling it IAYT right from day one >> instead of doing the same mistake that ayurveda physicians did when they >> started going into extract active ingredients and doing animal >> experiments. >> Now that this tract has been tried by this Indian scientists it becomes >> difficult and almost impossible to change the trend amongst researchers >> to >> go back to the holistic concept of ayurveda. >> >> >> >> Dr. Ananda we all have a bigger duty to do apart from only validating >> the >> ancient techniques by the modern techniques of research. >> >> We should go into many many researchers doing internal research and >> relive >> those states of consciousness. Scientists should experience those states >> and >> then start giving a holistic look for everything that is happening. >> >> We should also be able to give a direction for the whole research that >> is >> going on in any field of science today. -- The slogan --'publish or >> perish' >> is becoming a wrong habit. Cutthroat competition amongst researchers is >> another malady, which is not the right thing to happen with Saraswathi. >> >> Please join hands to first publish in the way the modern scientists >> want. >> Get 20 publications of yours in renowned journals of high regard in the >> field of science and then people will start listening to you. >> >> I hope your student will peruse his medicine studies, go through the >> tough >> phase for 6 years, which is not a waste in one’s life span, and then >> start >> involving in this type of activities. >> >> Nagarathna >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------- >> ---------------From Dr MV Bhole, retired director of research at >> Kaivalyadhama, one of India’s oldest Yoga institutions at Lonavla, >> Maharastra >> >> >> >> There are only two sciences, which are working with human beings >> directly. >> One is Yoga and the other is Medicine. Other sciences do keep the human >> beings in their purview, but not in the centre. The three modalities: >> Jiva >> - >> Jagat and Iswara. One of these three remains in the center and other >> two >> remain in the periphery. >> >> >> >> Medicine can work with the unconscious human beings and also the >> animals, >> but Yoga requires only the conscious human beings having the capacity >> and >> the ability to make Resolves (Samkalpa - Vikalpa and Nischaya) and to be >> able to execute them. Other kinds of human beings have to solely depend >> on >> " Guru Krupa " . >> >> >> >> Our ancient traditional knowledge is not easily and uniformly available >> to >> one and all. It follows " Guru - Shishya " or " Father - Child " Parampara >> and/or very closely guarded " Family Traditions " . What you (Dr Ananda) >> got >> from Rev. Swami Gitananda Ji as his son and his disciple, I could not >> get. >> That is the fundamental difference in the eastern and western approach. >> Our >> traditions are still based on the " Principles of Business Management or >> strong Survival Needs " . They are yet to become " Open Education >> Systems " . >> >> >> >> If one is not fortunate enough to have been born as a Brahmin having >> access >> to the living tradition and/or if you are not fortunate enough to have >> your >> training under the direct guidance of a " Guru " with " His Grace " >> (Gurukrupa) >> in Indian " Guru-Shishya Parampara " ; then you have no other alternative >> than >> to follow the existing western approach. >> >> >> >> If one has no knowledge of Sanskrit and does not know how to decipher >> complex sanskrit terms into simple Sanskrit, then one has to depend on >> the >> translations of old yoga literature in other language either Indian >> and/or >> western. The translators may not be " Realized " or " Emancipated Souls " . >> >> >> >> If one has been educated and brought up in western way of thinking and >> analysis, then how one can easily switch over to the Indian way of >> thinking >> and analyzing yoga texts, terms, techniques, states of consciousness >> etc.? >> >> >> >> All people do not come to yoga in the olden classical motivation to know >> " Who am I? " . They have other demands, which require different >> approaches >> to >> find suitable answers. Preset day Yoga Experts, many a times, are not >> willing to deviate from their path for reasons best known to them. In >> that >> situation, one has no other go than to resort to other types of >> approaches >> and explanations. >> >> >> >> There is no attack on my research. I know what I have done and I am >> doing. >> In what direction I am traveling and I want to guide people coming to >> me. >> Everything begins and starts in a " Very Small " way. Slowlyitgrows. >> Every >> big work and/or task has to be divided into suitable pieces e.g. >> Ashtanga >> of >> Patanjali, Shadangas of Gheranda etc. Where is the Conflict?? I cannot >> understand. >> >> >> >> In regard to your last question on how to walk the path of a scientific >> healer and a yogi simultaneously my answer is “Oh yes, you can surely do >> it. >> Go to Ananda Ashram where there is the living tradition of Rishi Culture >> blended with modern medicine without any conflict and/or contradiction. >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------- >> -----------------From Prof R Narasimhan the retired Director Professor >> and >> Head, Dept of Pathology at JIPMER who is presently with the Ramachandra >> Medical Institute at Chennai. >> >> >> >> Dear Dr. Ananda, >> >> I appreciate the concerns Of Dr. Nagarathna. I am so glad to see your >> well-balanced picture of the scenario today and you have practically >> addressed >> every question raised. I fully endorse what you had quoted about >> Swamiji’s >> views on this. Thank you for the mails, which I find interesting, >> thought provoking and stimulating at times to find the >> answer within. >> >> Narasimhan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From Dr Kaviraja Udupa, Senior Resident Physiology, JIPMER, Pondicherry >> >> The question raised by your student is absolutely correct. Even after >> 3-4 >> years of research in yoga under Dr. Madanmohan Ji & yourself, I feel we >> need >> lots of retrospection of our works based on these questions >> >> Yoga, the cultural heritage of our country definitely has more stuff in >> it >> than to be proved its authenticity by using modern science. The major >> difference I find between modern medicine & yoga is the humanitarian >> approach in yoga. Modern medicine completely lacks it, it sees a person >> as >> a >> machine with different systems, organs, tissues...Human values, ethics, >> social support...are lacking not only in medicine but present day world >> which is resulting in stressful modern world, terrorism & whole lot of >> evils...this is a vicious cycle in turn resulting in all other pervading >> problems. >> >> Then where is the solution? I feel it’s the combination of true modern >> scientific knowledge & yoga as way of life. All limbs of Ashtanga yoga >> should be given their due importance & should be implemented in all >> walks >> of >> life. Yoga teachers, researchers, different schools of yoga should work >> together & show the common man the yogic way of life than fighting >> against >> each other. In addition to giving yoga training to normal persons (to >> whom >> Yama & Niyama practice to be given properly), patient population should >> be >> taken care of (give them the specific Asanas & Pranayamas which are >> complement to allopathic treatment and provide them the psychological >> support to take care of psychosomatic involvement). I feel just talking >> to >> the patient for half an hour each will solve most of his/her problem >> rather >> than treating them as spoiled machinery. >> >> I strongly feel your student should continue his studies, get proper >> knowledge of one system of medicine, which is highly advanced, in >> treating >> emergencies & also give fairly good amount of knowledge about human >> life. >> He >> can study more about yoga simultaneously, adopting its lifestyle himself >> now >> & propagate it for the betterment of whole mankind in days to come. I >> wish >> him all the best >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yogacharya >> Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani >> >> Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER >> >> 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 >> >> Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 >> >> Website: HYPERLINK " http://www.icyer.com " www.icyer.com >> >> HYPERLINK >> " http://www.geocities.com/yognat2001/i_am_here " www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ >> i_am_here >> >> >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> >> HYPERLINK >> " http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/10/*http:/promotions./new_ >> mail/static/efficiency.html " New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB >> messages! >> >> " Health and Happiness are your birthright, claim them through >> Rishiculture >> Ashtanga Yoga " -Yogamaharishi Dr Swami Gitananda Giri >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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