Guest guest Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because they don’t work hard and that the state should have no role in redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is disturbing. On Behalf Of Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Bhavanani Monday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc-friends FW: Ant & Grasshopper A true statement of the modern day attitude Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 i think that the underlying message was that the weak are getting papered at the cost of the strong that is very disturbing to me because then everyone will want to be weak this happens with people who get ill just to get pampered and get attention then they keep on getting ill and more ill we must take responsiblity for our own lives that is swamijis message at all times anandaDoug Hayman <dmhayman wrote: Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because they don’t work hard and that the state should have no role in redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is disturbing. On Behalf Of Yogacharya Dr.Ananda BhavananiMonday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc-friends Subject: FW: Ant & Grasshopper A true statement of the modern day attitude Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 I'm not sure that 'the costs' the strong contribute to the wellfare of others isn't also really a benefit to them as well. Stability can bring riches, but in any human society, there is a price to be paid. The idea that one must take personal responsibility as a necesarry evolutionary step in the development of human conciousness, surely does not mean that strong and evolved humans can't work together to lend support to those who suffer, justly or unjustly. To me, this latter idea extends the duties and responsibilites of family to community to nation and to all beings. This approach should not take away dignity or responsibility and it doesn't have to. And it can create a safer, saner society. As the politicians are fond of saying 'Not a hand out, but a hand up.' These ideas can co-exist. Doug"Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Bhavanani" <yognat2001 wrote: i think that the underlying message was that the weak are getting papered at the cost of the strong that is very disturbing to me because then everyone will want to be weak this happens with people who get ill just to get pampered and get attention then they keep on getting ill and more ill we must take responsiblity for our own lives that is swamijis message at all times anandaDoug Hayman <dmhayman wrote: Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because they don’t work hard and that the state should have no role in redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is disturbing. On Behalf Of Yogacharya Dr.Ananda BhavananiMonday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc-friends Subject: FW: Ant & Grasshopper A true statement of the modern day attitude Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Post your free ad now! Canada Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 The concept of charity in yoga I have been impressed by the discussion about the ant and the grasshoppper. Commonsense seems to indicate that the ant is industrious but the grasshopper is by no means lazy. The ant takes better care of himself/herself and his/her immediate society. The grasshopper lives for the moment Both are "yogis" and have karmic lessons to learn. Does the ant enjoy hard work? Or the grasshopper free time? They follow different paths or lifestyles. Should we compare them and judge which is better? The ants gather for a rainy day, collecting anything edible. They are not vegetarians but are scavengers! Grasshoppers are "happy go lucky. Survival of the species needs to be considered of prime importance Some are more successful at it than others. The majority of people are animals by instinct. They are unwilling to share resources. The more evolved humans help their fellow beings, simply because they recognize the "inner" need for such. We call it charity or dana in yoga. In our society the rich want to stay that way. The poor desire to get rich. Will there be enough food, oil, etc. in the world? Generally, a sharing of resources is not a favourite concept. Of course the fact that all belongs to Ishvara is overlooked. What is good for the indfividual should be so for the greatest good of everybody. That seems positive karma, without expectations. Responsibility is essential to all karmic consequences, whether we give or receive. Love and compassion are the key aspects. Eric Doornekamp - Doug Hayman Friday, July 22, 2005 12:50 PM RE: FW: Ant & Grasshopper I'm not sure that 'the costs' the strong contribute to the wellfare of others isn't also really a benefit to them as well. Stability can bring riches, but in any human society, there is a price to be paid. The idea that one must take personal responsibility as a necesarry evolutionary step in the development of human conciousness, surely does not mean that strong and evolved humans can't work together to lend support to those who suffer, justly or unjustly. To me, this latter idea extends the duties and responsibilites of family to community to nation and to all beings. This approach should not take away dignity or responsibility and it doesn't have to. And it can create a safer, saner society. As the politicians are fond of saying 'Not a hand out, but a hand up.' These ideas can co-exist. Doug"Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Bhavanani" <yognat2001 wrote: i think that the underlying message was that the weak are getting papered at the cost of the strong that is very disturbing to me because then everyone will want to be weak this happens with people who get ill just to get pampered and get attention then they keep on getting ill and more ill we must take responsiblity for our own lives that is swamijis message at all times anandaDoug Hayman <dmhayman wrote: Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because they don’t work hard and that the state should have no role in redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is disturbing. On Behalf Of Yogacharya Dr.Ananda BhavananiMonday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc-friends Subject: FW: Ant & Grasshopper A true statement of the modern day attitude Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Post your free ad now! Canada Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Namaste everyone This is indeed a very interesting discussion. There should be more like it. Reflecting on life and self is how philosophy, new thoughts and insights, and perhaps even proposition of solutions are arrived at. It is all good. My personal insight in this matter in an overview generalisation at this point in time is the following: Life is a complex and intricate web in which the human ingredient complicates it further. I think it is wise not to jump to conclusions especially when these imply belief systems such as Karma, reincarnation, God, Heaven, Hell, even perhaps right and wrong. Quite correct that as a generalisation we can say that INPUT=OUTPUT but only if our environment supports that very concept. Manual labourers in India carrying bricks on their heads all day long in the hot sun or toiling in the fields to feed others (and remember if the Pandit's stomach is not filled, how will he do ritual and that goes for everyone) don't even come close to the Indian middle class in being financially comfortable. Karma? Societal imbalance in the sharing of resources? Over-stratification of society? Or cultural indoctrination of this is your lot in life (and hence Karma)? Or perhaps they are all tied in - 'the web' of existence itself. These are worth reflecting upon. We don't live in isolation but amongst society in which the rules have been set for us for good or for worse. Yes our responsibility is to change or bend those rules if we don't like them. This can be at an individual or collective level. History has plenty of examples (Ghandi, Martin Luther King, the French Revolution etc...). The concept of Karma and reincarnation can be a cop out and an oversimplification to meaning, an explanation to life and individual existence where perhaps there are none. Man is certainly the only being that we know that creates meaning. Due to man's evolved consciousness, it is a mean by which he retains or maintains a degree of sanity. The closest meanings I can find to Karma are i) genetics or Sabija Karma, and ii) common sense (which we mostly lack). Unfortunately at this stage of our evolution, science has not yet mastered genetics, so you could say this is our lot in life. This is quite clear, that even if there was equal opportunities for all in their physical, mental and spiritual development (an ideal world and therefore not realistic) there still would be considerable differences in these developments and abilities between individuals. And by the way, next time that someone feels a 'holier-than-thou' attitude behind the mask of Karma and reincarnation, perhaps they should ask a paraplegic or quadraplegic if as a race we were to go beyond the red tape imposed by moralists on stem-cell technology to give them the opportunity to walk and move again, would they take up the offer. Ask yourself the same question if you were in their predicament. Imposing that type of morality on others is therefore obscene. Karma and common sense: knowledge that is applied wisely is true power. Hence developing the art of getting along with others; of budgeting; of common sense diet and exercise according to age, constitution, and environment; of developing a healthy self-esteem, and the list goes on... The only difference we can make is to ourselves first and then from example, to our sphere of influence whatever that may be. It is about individual responsibility here and now - to change ourselves within the realm of the possible, and to society / others if we feel so driven without taking away the concept of self-responsibility from others (ie for them to empower themselves). Remember in your enquiries to ask WHY first and HOW second. " The unexamined life is not worth living " Socrates I am therefore I think? I think therefore I am? Or is it both or neither to the enlightened. Yours in Yoga Devidasan. - " Yogacharya Gowrishankarananda " <gowrishankarananda Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:21 PM Re: Re: FW: Ant & Grasshopper > Perhaps this well presented and passionate position is still an over > simplication of a > very complicated process...or maybe it is an over complication of a simple > formula... > Karma!!! > > I would be interested to see as well presented a position by theese same > people on Karma. > Individual birth to birth Karma, > Familial Karma, > Societal Karma, > National Karma, > Planetary Karma, > > What was the karma of a rich person who dies and how will thier situation > change next > life? > or for that matter a greedy selfish person (99% of the population), will > they come back > in poverty. > would a person who dies at a young age from starvation burn off alot of > Karma. > can we build good Karma by helping those who are less advantaged. what > would be our > motivation and the Karmic implications of that motive? > > Does anyone know what happens when we rob someone of the oportunity to > overcome thier > Karma? > > Do not confuse theese questions as a lack of compassion... we still need > compassion more > than ever. Rather we should act with love, the love a responsible parent > would show. > facilitate consciousness, empower and educate, but from a deeper > understanding. Parents > always find themselves in a position where there is nothing they can do > they have to > allow the unconscious child to learn...this can take a few moments or > lifetimes. > > In the grasshopper story; the Ant demonstrated by example a strong work > ethic. he reaped > his rewards. no where did the media find out if the Ant also contributed > to his > comunity...He did, as ants live inseperable from the comunity. we see in > the story > unselfish behavior from the ant (working hard to do its duty) punished at > the expense of > the selfish grasshopper. The grasshopper lived selfishly, with no > understanding of Karma. > Now that being said the whole story is alittle rediculous, as being a > grashopper in the > firstplace it was karmicly given the good or bad Karma to be born as a > grasshopper and > the karma to lived as a grasshopper would and die as a grasshopper does. > > GOOD OR BAD...Who can say!!! > > The sages and Rishis develop viveka and viragya, they remain in the world > with infnite > compassion knowing there is little they can do for those who are not > interested in > lifting themselves by their own bootstraps so to speak. They understand > that good Karma > comes from performing the highest Seva, facilitating consciousness. > > all theese lifetimes are over in a flash lets develop alittle more > awareness and > discrimination, do our duty, love (not an emotion or passion), ease > suffering, facilitate > consciousness in ourselves and others. > > I am thankful for the very enlightening, consciousness raising statistics > provided by Sri > Robert. > > > > > > --- travellingtheworld <travellingtheworld wrote: > >> I have to agreee with Doug, I think the underlying message is >> disturbing. >> >> It seems to me that this story is an gross over-simplication of a >> very complex issue and it does not do the issue justice. I know that >> you are not looking at it in this way, but I would like to point it >> out. >> >> In the world today over 8 million people die every year because they >> are too poor to stay alive. The world bank estimates that 1.1 >> billion people live in extreme poverty, extreme poverty can be >> defined as, getting by on an income of less than a dollar a day, >> which means that house holds cannot meet basic needs for survival. >> They are chronically hungry, unable to get health care, lack safe >> drinking water and sanitation, cannot afford education for their >> children and prehaps lack rudimentary shelter- a roof to keep rain >> out of their hut- and basic articles of clothings like shoes. We can >> describe extreme poverty as " the poverty that kills " . Every single >> day, 30,000 children are dying as a result of extreme poverty. >> And on top of that it is estimated that 2.7 billion make less than >> two dollars a day. That is over half of the worlds population. And >> yet 90 percent of the worlds resources are owned by only four >> percent of the worlds population. So don't tell me that its just >> that 96 percent of the world was too lazy. This is a misconception, >> the poor around the world face structural challenges that keep them >> from even getting a foot on the ladder. " Most societies with the >> right ingredients---good harbors, close contact with the rich world, >> favorable climates, adequate energy sources and freedom from >> epidemic disease--have escaped extreme poverty. " For some the deck >> was stacked against them from the very beginning and they never had >> a chance. Poverty is a serious issue. With all we have today people >> should not be dying simply because they are poor. As the saying >> goes, there is more than enough for everyone's needs, but there is >> no where near enough for even one mans greed. >> >> Robert >> >> Below are some facts on poverty. please take the time to read >> them.... >> >> >> Fast Facts: The Faces of Poverty >> >> More than one billion people in the world live on less than one >> dollar a day. Another 2.7 billion struggle to survive on less than >> two dollars per day. Poverty in the developing world, however, goes >> far beyond income poverty. It means having to walk more than one >> mile everyday simply to collect water and firewood; it means >> suffering diseases that were eradicated from rich countries decades >> ago. Every year eleven million children die-most under the age of >> five and more than six million from completely preventable causes >> like malaria, diarrhea and pneumonia. >> In some deeply impoverished nations less than half of the children >> are in primary school and under 20 percent go to secondary school. >> Around the world, a total of 114 million children do not get even a >> basic education and 584 million women are illiterate. >> Following are basic facts outlining the roots and manifestations of >> the poverty affecting more than one third of our world. >> >> Health >> Every year six million children die from malnutrition before their >> fifth birthday. >> More than 50 percent of Africans suffer from water-related diseases >> such as cholera and infant diarrhea. >> Everyday HIV/AIDS kills 6,000 people and another 8,200 people are >> infected with this deadly virus. >> Every 30 seconds an African child dies of malaria-more than one >> million child deaths a year. >> Each year, approximately 300 to 500 million people are infected with >> malaria. Approximately three million people die as a result. >> TB is the leading AIDS-related killer and in some parts of Africa, >> 75 percent of people with HIV also have TB. >> >> Hunger >> More than 800 million people go to bed hungry every day...300 >> million are children. >> Of these 300 million children, only eight percent are victims of >> famine or other emergency situations. More than 90 percent are >> suffering long-term malnourishment and micronutrient deficiency. >> Every 3.6 seconds another person dies of starvation and the large >> majority are children under the age of 5. >> >> Water >> More than 2.6 billion people-over 40 per cent of the world's >> population-do not have basic sanitation, and more than one billion >> people still use unsafe sources of drinking water. >> Four out of every ten people in the world don't have access even to >> a simple latrine. >> Five million people, mostly children, die each year from water-borne >> diseases. >> >> Agriculture: >> In 1960, Africa was a net exporter of food; today the continent >> imports one-third of its grain. >> More than 40 percent of Africans do not even have the ability to >> obtain sufficient food on a day-today basis. >> Declining soil fertility, land degradation, and the AIDS pandemic >> have led to a 23 percent decrease in food production per capita in >> the last 25 years even though population has increased dramatically. >> For the African farmer, conventional fertilizers cost two to six >> times more than the world market price. >> >> The devastating effect of poverty on women: >> Above 80 percent of farmers in Africa are women. >> More than 40 percent of women in Africa do not have access to basic >> education. >> If a girl is educated for six years or more, as an adult her >> prenatal care, postnatal care and childbirth survival rates, will >> dramatically and consistently improve. >> Educated mothers immunize their children 50 percent more often than >> mothers who are not educated. >> AIDS spreads twice as quickly among uneducated girls than among >> girls that have even some schooling. >> The children of a woman with five years of primary school education >> have a survival rate 40 percent higher than children of women with >> no education. >> A woman living in sub-Saharan Africa has a 1 in 16 chance of dying >> in pregnancy. This compares with a 1 in 3,700 risk for a woman from >> North America. >> Every minute, a woman somewhere dies in pregnancy or childbirth. >> This adds up to 1,400 women dying each day-an estimated 529,000 each >> year-from pregnancy-related causes. >> Almost half of births in developing countries take place without the >> help of a skilled birth attendant. >> >> >> >> >> To learn more you can go to: >> >> >> http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/endofpoverty/ >> http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/ >> >> >> >> >> , " Yogacharya Dr.Ananda >> Bhavanani " <yognat2001> wrote: >> > i think that the underlying message was that the >> > weak are getting papered at the cost of the strong >> > that is very disturbing to me because then everyone will want to >> be weak >> > this happens with people who get ill just to get pampered and get >> attention >> > then they keep on getting ill and more ill >> > we must take responsiblity for our own lives >> > that is swamijis message at all times >> > ananda >> > >> > Doug Hayman <dmhayman@n...> wrote: >> > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url >> (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape >> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } >> > Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The >> underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because >> they don't work hard and that the state should have no role in >> redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is >> disturbing. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Behalf Of Yogacharya >> Dr.Ananda Bhavanani >> > Monday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM >> > ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc- >> friends >> > FW: Ant & Grasshopper >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > A true statement of the modern day attitude >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yogacharya >> > Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani >> > >> > >> > Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER >> > >> > >> > 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 >> > >> > >> > Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 >> > >> > >> > Website: www.icyer.com >> > >> > >> > www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda >> > === message truncated === > > > Yours In The Service Of Yoga, > Yogacharya Gowrishankarananda > Rishi Yoga Mandir > Tat Tvam Asi...Thou Art That! > > > > __ > Start your day with - make it your home page > http://www./r/hs > > > > > > " Health and Happiness are your birthright, claim them through Rishiculture > Ashtanga Yoga " -Yogamaharishi Dr Swami Gitananda Giri > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2005 Report Share Posted July 24, 2005 Well said!!! Karma and Dharma everyone has their role...first seek to understand Karma not as a cop out, not as morality, rather as an understanding of the way things are, how they came to be, and how to live,(again not as morality, as cause and effect...gross-subtle), then do not hide... do ones Dharma! Stem cell research...hmm hot topic!!! right along with genetic engineering, and cloning. Dharma and Adharma... who can say...not morality, simply seeking truth... what wonderful satsangha... Aum Shanti, shanti shanti ..--- Jean-Michel Ruffier <devidasan wrote: > Namaste everyone > > This is indeed a very interesting discussion. There should be more like it. > Reflecting on life and self is how philosophy, new thoughts and insights, > and perhaps even proposition of solutions are arrived at. It is all good. > > My personal insight in this matter in an overview generalisation at this > point in time is the following: > > Life is a complex and intricate web in which the human ingredient > complicates it further. I think it is wise not to jump to conclusions > especially when these imply belief systems such as Karma, reincarnation, > God, Heaven, Hell, even perhaps right and wrong. > > Quite correct that as a generalisation we can say that INPUT=OUTPUT but only > if our environment supports that very concept. Manual labourers in India > carrying bricks on their heads all day long in the hot sun or toiling in the > fields to feed others (and remember if the Pandit's stomach is not filled, > how will he do ritual and that goes for everyone) don't even come close to > the Indian middle class in being financially comfortable. Karma? Societal > imbalance in the sharing of resources? Over-stratification of society? Or > cultural indoctrination of this is your lot in life (and hence Karma)? Or > perhaps they are all tied in - 'the web' of existence itself. > These are worth reflecting upon. We don't live in isolation but amongst > society in which the rules have been set for us for good or for worse. Yes > our responsibility is to change or bend those rules if we don't like them. > This can be at an individual or collective level. History has plenty of > examples (Ghandi, Martin Luther King, the French Revolution etc...). > > The concept of Karma and reincarnation can be a cop out and an > oversimplification to meaning, an explanation to life and individual > existence where perhaps there are none. Man is certainly the only being > that we know that creates meaning. > Due to man's evolved consciousness, it is a mean by which he retains or > maintains a degree of sanity. > > The closest meanings I can find to Karma are i) genetics or Sabija Karma, > and ii) common sense (which we mostly lack). > Unfortunately at this stage of our evolution, science has not yet mastered > genetics, so you could say this is our lot in life. This is quite clear, > that even if there was equal opportunities for all in their physical, mental > and spiritual development (an ideal world and therefore not realistic) there > still would be considerable differences in these developments and abilities > between individuals. > And by the way, next time that someone feels a 'holier-than-thou' attitude > behind the mask of Karma and reincarnation, perhaps they should ask a > paraplegic or quadraplegic if as a race we were to go beyond the red tape > imposed by moralists on stem-cell technology to give them the opportunity to > walk and move again, would they take up the offer. Ask yourself the same > question if you were in their predicament. Imposing that type of morality > on others is therefore obscene. > > Karma and common sense: knowledge that is applied wisely is true power. > Hence developing the art of getting along with others; of budgeting; of > common sense diet and exercise according to age, constitution, and > environment; of developing a healthy self-esteem, and the list goes on... > > The only difference we can make is to ourselves first and then from example, > to our sphere of influence whatever that may be. > It is about individual responsibility here and now - to change ourselves > within the realm of the possible, and to society / others if we feel so > driven without taking away the concept of self-responsibility from others > (ie for them to empower themselves). > > Remember in your enquiries to ask WHY first and HOW second. > > " The unexamined life is not worth living " Socrates > > I am therefore I think? > I think therefore I am? > Or is it both or neither to the enlightened. > > Yours in Yoga > Devidasan. > > - > " Yogacharya Gowrishankarananda " <gowrishankarananda > > Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:21 PM > Re: Re: FW: Ant & Grasshopper > > > > Perhaps this well presented and passionate position is still an over > > simplication of a > > very complicated process...or maybe it is an over complication of a simple > > formula... > > Karma!!! > > > > I would be interested to see as well presented a position by theese same > > people on Karma. > > Individual birth to birth Karma, > > Familial Karma, > > Societal Karma, > > National Karma, > > Planetary Karma, > > > > What was the karma of a rich person who dies and how will thier situation > > change next > > life? > > or for that matter a greedy selfish person (99% of the population), will > > they come back > > in poverty. > > would a person who dies at a young age from starvation burn off alot of > > Karma. > > can we build good Karma by helping those who are less advantaged. what > > would be our > > motivation and the Karmic implications of that motive? > > > > Does anyone know what happens when we rob someone of the oportunity to > > overcome thier > > Karma? > > > > Do not confuse theese questions as a lack of compassion... we still need > > compassion more > > than ever. Rather we should act with love, the love a responsible parent > > would show. > > facilitate consciousness, empower and educate, but from a deeper > > understanding. Parents > > always find themselves in a position where there is nothing they can do > > they have to > > allow the unconscious child to learn...this can take a few moments or > > lifetimes. > > > > In the grasshopper story; the Ant demonstrated by example a strong work > > ethic. he reaped > > his rewards. no where did the media find out if the Ant also contributed > > to his > > comunity...He did, as ants live inseperable from the comunity. we see in > > the story > > unselfish behavior from the ant (working hard to do its duty) punished at > > the expense of > > the selfish grasshopper. The grasshopper lived selfishly, with no > > understanding of Karma. > > Now that being said the whole story is alittle rediculous, as being a > > grashopper in the > > firstplace it was karmicly given the good or bad Karma to be born as a > > grasshopper and > > the karma to lived as a grasshopper would and die as a grasshopper does. > > > > GOOD OR BAD...Who can say!!! > > > > The sages and Rishis develop viveka and viragya, they remain in the world > > with infnite > > compassion knowing there is little they can do for those who are not > > interested in > > lifting themselves by their own bootstraps so to speak. They understand > > that good Karma > > comes from performing the highest Seva, facilitating consciousness. > > > > all theese lifetimes are over in a flash lets develop alittle more > > awareness and > > discrimination, do our duty, love (not an emotion or passion), ease > > suffering, facilitate > > consciousness in ourselves and others. > > > > I am thankful for the very enlightening, consciousness raising statistics > > provided by Sri > > Robert. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- travellingtheworld <travellingtheworld wrote: > > > >> I have to agreee with Doug, I think the underlying message is > >> disturbing. > >> > >> It seems to me that this story is an gross over-simplication of a > >> very complex issue and it does not do the issue justice. I know that > >> you are not looking at it in this way, but I would like to point it > >> out. > >> > >> In the world today over 8 million people die every year because they > >> are too poor to stay alive. The world bank estimates that 1.1 > >> billion people live in extreme poverty, extreme poverty can be > >> defined as, getting by on an income of less than a dollar a day, > >> which means that house holds cannot meet basic needs for survival. > >> They are chronically hungry, unable to get health care, lack safe > >> drinking water and sanitation, cannot afford education for their > >> children and prehaps lack rudimentary shelter- a roof to keep rain > >> out of their hut- and basic articles of clothings like shoes. We can > >> describe extreme poverty as " the poverty that kills " . Every single > >> day, 30,000 children are dying as a result of extreme poverty. > >> And on top of that it is estimated that 2.7 billion make less than > >> two dollars a day. That is over half of the worlds population. And > >> yet 90 percent of the worlds resources are owned by only four > >> percent of the worlds population. So don't tell me that its just > >> that 96 percent of the world was too lazy. This is a misconception, > >> the poor around the world face structural challenges that keep them > >> from even getting a foot on the ladder. " Most societies with the > >> right ingredients---good harbors, close contact with the rich world, > >> favorable climates, adequate energy sources and freedom from > >> epidemic disease--have escaped extreme poverty. " For some the deck > === message truncated === Yours In The Service Of Yoga, Yogacharya Gowrishankarananda Rishi Yoga Mandir Tat Tvam Asi...Thou Art That! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 A part of myself has enjoyed listening to the prickly subject of poverty, and the personal and collective implications behind the root cause etc I am a firm believer however in personal experience and wisdom (or lack of). Is it a coincidence that no women have been involved in what is essentially a 'political' dicussion? They are far too wise, I feel. By political I mean dicussing other peoples problems, and having an opinion on what to do, or what not to do about them. I am a great admirer of compassion in other people, as opposed to expressing an opinion based on somebody else'e self realisation. Regarding a letter I sent about unity, a couple of weeks ago I was meaning to say that I believe in cultures keeping their identity but not at the cost of fearing another. Love Chrisantonio wrote: Are you trying to imply that there 'should' be no poor people...?It's interesting to me how we struggle attaining 'unity' when it comes tothe bad or negative side of it. Rich and poor are the two sides of onecoin whatever their interaction are, and a world without one of them wouldb just not wholly.I understand poverty is not nice nor it is desirable and I'd like it to beminimal, yet there's nothing wrong nor right about it, it's just what itis, the flip side of energy as money.It's great to have food for the winter yet it is a pity to be a workaholic.It's a pity to be caught off guard in winter yet it is great to be in themoment.Why should we 'decide' if one of them is right and the other wrong as ifCreation needed our help!'The Earth is spinning and it does not need us to push'Antonio.> I have to agreee with Doug, I think the underlying message is> disturbing.>> It seems to me that this story is an gross over-simplication of a> very complex issue and it does not do the issue justice. I know that> you are not looking at it in this way, but I would like to point it> out.>> In the world today over 8 million people die every year because they> are too poor to stay alive. The world bank estimates that 1.1> billion people live in extreme poverty, extreme poverty can be> defined as, getting by on an income of less than a dollar a day,> which means that house holds cannot meet basic needs for survival.> They are chronically hungry, unable to get health care, lack safe> drinking water and sanitation, cannot afford education for their> children and prehaps lack rudimentary shelter- a roof to keep rain> out of their hut- and basic articles of clothings like shoes. We can> describe extreme poverty as "the poverty that kills". Every single> day, 30,000 children are dying as a result of extreme poverty.> And on top of that it is estimated that 2.7 billion make less than> two dollars a day. That is over half of the worlds population. And> yet 90 percent of the worlds resources are owned by only four> percent of the worlds population. So don't tell me that its just> that 96 percent of the world was too lazy. This is a misconception,> the poor around the world face structural challenges that keep them> from even getting a foot on the ladder. "Most societies with the> right ingredients---good harbors, close contact with the rich world,> favorable climates, adequate energy sources and freedom from> epidemic disease--have escaped extreme poverty." For some the deck> was stacked against them from the very beginning and they never had> a chance. Poverty is a serious issue. With all we have today people> should not be dying simply because they are poor. As the saying> goes, there is more than enough for everyone's needs, but there is> no where near enough for even one mans greed.>> Robert>> Below are some facts on poverty. please take the time to read> them....>>> Fast Facts: The Faces of Poverty>> More than one billion people in the world live on less than one> dollar a day. Another 2.7 billion struggle to survive on less than> two dollars per day. Poverty in the developing world, however, goes> far beyond income poverty. It means having to walk more than one> mile everyday simply to collect water and firewood; it means> suffering diseases that were eradicated from rich countries decades> ago. Every year eleven million children die-most under the age of> five and more than six million from completely preventable causes> like malaria, diarrhea and pneumonia.> In some deeply impoverished nations less than half of the children> are in primary school and under 20 percent go to secondary school.> Around the world, a total of 114 million children do not get even a> basic education and 584 million women are illiterate.> Following are basic facts outlining the roots and manifestations of> the poverty affecting more than one third of our world.>> Health> Every year six million children die from malnutrition before their> fifth birthday.> More than 50 percent of Africans suffer from water-related diseases> such as cholera and infant diarrhea.> Everyday HIV/AIDS kills 6,000 people and another 8,200 people are> infected with this deadly virus.> Every 30 seconds an African child dies of malaria-more than one> million child deaths a year.> Each year, approximately 300 to 500 million people are infected with> malaria. Approximately three million people die as a result.> TB is the leading AIDS-related killer and in some parts of Africa,> 75 percent of people with HIV also have TB.>> Hunger> More than 800 million people go to bed hungry every day...300> million are children.> Of these 300 million children, only eight percent are victims of> famine or other emergency situations. More than 90 percent are> suffering long-term malnourishment and micronutrient deficiency.> Every 3.6 seconds another person dies of starvation and the large> majority are children under the age of 5.>> Water> More than 2.6 billion people-over 40 per cent of the world's> population-do not have basic sanitation, and more than one billion> people still use unsafe sources of drinking water.> Four out of every ten people in the world don't have access even to> a simple latrine.> Five million people, mostly children, die each year from water-borne> diseases.>> Agriculture:> In 1960, Africa was a net exporter of food; today the continent> imports one-third of its grain.> More than 40 percent of Africans do not even have the ability to> obtain sufficient food on a day-today basis.> Declining soil fertility, land degradation, and the AIDS pandemic> have led to a 23 percent decrease in food production per capita in> the last 25 years even though population has increased dramatically.> For the African farmer, conventional fertilizers cost two to six> times more than the world market price.>> The devastating effect of poverty on women:> Above 80 percent of farmers in Africa are women.> More than 40 percent of women in Africa do not have access to basic> education.> If a girl is educated for six years or more, as an adult her> prenatal care, postnatal care and childbirth survival rates, will> dramatically and consistently improve.> Educated mothers immunize their children 50 percent more often than> mothers who are not educated.> AIDS spreads twice as quickly among uneducated girls than among> girls that have even some schooling.> The children of a woman with five years of primary school education> have a survival rate 40 percent higher than children of women with> no education.> A woman living in sub-Saharan Africa has a 1 in 16 chance of dying> in pregnancy. This compares with a 1 in 3,700 risk for a woman from> North America.> Every minute, a woman somewhere dies in pregnancy or childbirth.> This adds up to 1,400 women dying each day-an estimated 529,000 each> year-from pregnancy-related causes.> Almost half of births in developing countries take place without the> help of a skilled birth attendant.>>>>> To learn more you can go to:>>> http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/endofpoverty/> http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/>>>>> , "Yogacharya Dr.Ananda> Bhavanani" <yognat2001> wrote:>> i think that the underlying message was that the>> weak are getting papered at the cost of the strong>> that is very disturbing to me because then everyone will want to> be weak>> this happens with people who get ill just to get pampered and get> attention>> then they keep on getting ill and more ill>> we must take responsiblity for our own lives>> that is swamijis message at all times>> ananda>>>> Doug Hayman <dmhayman@n...> wrote:>> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url> (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }>> Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The> underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because> they don't work hard and that the state should have no role in> redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is> disturbing.>>>>>>>> >>>>>> > On Behalf Of Yogacharya> Dr.Ananda Bhavanani>> Monday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM>> To: ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc-> friends >> FW: Ant & Grasshopper>>>>>>>>>> A true statement of the modern day attitude>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yogacharya>> Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani>>>>>> Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER>>>>>> 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013>>>>>> Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561>>>>>> Website: www.icyer.com>>>>>> www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Start your day with - make it your home page>>>>>> "Health and Happiness are your birthright, claim them through> Rishiculture Ashtanga Yoga" -Yogamaharishi Dr Swami Gitananda Giri>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> Visit your group "" on the web.>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 Dear Dr. Ananda, The question "Good or bad..................who can say?" is one that I posed to your father many times and in a variety of ways in Sat sang at Ananda Ashram in 1971. He was always very open to wrestling with my often naive questions and invariably responded in such a way as to compel me to look deeper into the question I had posed. I have enormous love and respect for Dr. Swami Gitananda. He has been and is one of my life teachers. That you are his and Meena's son is evident in your openness to discussion of the bigger questions in this life we share together and I appreciate this quality very much. Having been brought up in the Judeo-Christian tradition, the notions of right/wrong, right action/wrong action were reasonably well laid out for me (cultural overlay notwithstanding). So some things were and are very clear. For example, it is not ok to sexually, physically or emotionally abuse a child. While I understand that everything is as it is, I also believe every decision involves a choice and every action has a consequence. I believe there is a direction towards which we are evolving and that my choices make a difference in moving me in that direction or not. I believe that these choices make a difference in the evolution of civil society as well. For example, when I hear of your and Amma's work in Pondicherry and beyond, I see in my mind, a wonderful passion moving amongst the people, building community, teaching, recognizing and supporting growth . Your work and your leadership are inspiring. Best wishes, Doug -----"Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Bhavanani" <yognat2001 wrote: i think that the underlying message was that the weak are getting papered at the cost of the strong that is very disturbing to me because then everyone will want to be weak this happens with people who get ill just to get pampered and get attention then they keep on getting ill and more ill we must take responsiblity for our own lives that is swamijis message at all times anandaDoug Hayman <dmhayman wrote: Perhaps, especially with respect to the role of the media. The underlying message, however, that the poor are only poor because they don’t work hard and that the state should have no role in redistributing income because they are only pandering to laziness is disturbing. On Behalf Of Yogacharya Dr.Ananda BhavananiMonday, July 18, 2005 10:11 AM ; Devender; BGV 91; jnmc-friends Subject: FW: Ant & Grasshopper A true statement of the modern day attitude Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Yogacharya Dr.Ananda Balayogi Bhavanani Chairman : Yoganjali Natyalayam and ICYER 25,2nd Cross,Iyyanar Nagar, Pondicherry-605 013 Tel: 0413 - 2622902 / 0413 -2241561 Website: www.icyer.com www.geocities.com/yognat2001/ananda Start your day with - make it your home page Find your next car at Canada Autos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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