Knees

[Guest guest]

Hi Vic. First off, thanks for starting an interesting thread with a lot of good

posts - thanks

Mart for reminding us what yoga is really all about and P. Olof for reminding us

what knees

actually do! In response to your last ... Injuries have to be respected. It is

never productive to

work through them if that means just carrying on as usual and trying to ignore

the pain. This

is not to say that we shouldn't go on doing some form of practice - in most

cases we

definitely should, otherwise we may create more problems (accumulation of scar

tissue,

imbalances caused by the body compensating for the injury, etc.) - but the

practice has to be

an intelligent one that helps the injury to heal rather than goes on bashing it.

This will

probably involve omitting some postures for a while and incorporating other new

ones, and

possibly (depending on the injury) switching to a non-vinyasa form of yoga for a

time. Yoga

is about self-inquiry. I would invite anyone who is working with an injury to

consider deeply

what is happening when they practise on it, not just from the point of view of

the body but

also in the emotions and in the psyche. What are you experiencing when you do

what you're

doing? What are you really experiencing? What does it tell you about the rest of

your life? On

a different tack, if you practise mainly standing postures and omit sitting

ones, yes, your

knee mobility will be reduced as you are working predominantly on strength and

stability and

little on flexibility. The fallout from a twisted ankle may well show itself in

the knee too.

Breathe, slow down, drop down into your body, experience, practise yoga.

Namaste, Ali

[Guest guest]

Vik..

 

hehe.. yes you are right putting your legs behind your head does help to

diminish unecessary thoughts.. every asana with focused breathing does..

even if you havn't reached the asanas final state.. its very humbling

repeatedly putting you legs behind your head... without a down to Earth and

humble attitude it becomes too much.. but the asana is not the goal.. in

fact i would say as far as possible it is important to have a goal-less

attitude if we are to allow in what yoga has to offer.. preconcieved ideas

and attitudes can just create further ideas and attitudes, effectively

blocking out the unfettered experience of the self.

 

Lots of good advice about hip opening from P. Olof Osterling and also about

consistent practice from Tom Hunter...

 

I dont often respond to the posts but i read them all.. i guess i just

wanted (in my clumsy way) to point to the beauty of the practice irrelevent

of what shape ones body is in.. and actually i would say Savasana is one of

the most advanced asana in Ashtanga yoga... one should never become

disheartned by an asana as there is always tomorrow to gently approach it

once more...

 

One more thing.. mind over matter or matter over mind? .. i guess in this

context refers to the mind and the body (as the matter).. its not a question

of one or the other as both the statements hold true.. the mind affects the

body as does the body affect the mind... its a two way relationship.

 

Anyway.. enough from me.. love to you all .. mart.

[Guest guest]

is there anything wrong with the fluff lol.

if you notice a piece of fluff, you can do just that. notice and give it your

attention and then let it go.

yoga doesn't have to be these rigid little focused regimented exercises. you can

get on your mat and do the ashtanga series or if one day that doesn't suit you,

you can let poses just arise and rest between them and what not. lose your

balance, notice the fluff, give it some laughs and let it all go. if you died

and never got into padmasana or any of the complex fourth and fifth series

asanas, nothing is lost in life!

 

Victoria Birkbeck <vik wrote:

Ralph Craig III

[Guest guest]

It's so good to hear some common sense - well done Mart !

 

As David Swenson says, you don't get to the pearly gates and get asked

whether you can put your feet behind your head. That's NOT what its about,

its not a competition, and sometimes your practice will plateau (sometimes

for months or years) and sometimes even go backwards (how often have you

suddenly found you can't do something that you were able to do last week!)

You've just got to keep on doing it.

As PJ says, 'Practice, practice and all is coming' and he doesn't just mean

the next asana.

Part of yoga is accepting ones limitations, and knowing that the greater

challenge is to still ones conscious mind.

On shanti, Annie

-

" mart ... " <martw77

<ashtangayoga >

Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:33 AM

RE: ashtanga yoga Knees

 

 

> Heya.. with Ashtanga it is all to easy to become over identified with the

> body... yoga is not about being able to do postures.. one cannot see yoga

> in

> action... any well trained gymnaste can come along and 'perform' asana

> with

> great ease.. this is not yoga.. you will steady your mind and bring health

> and vitality to your body and enrich your life through just gently

> bringing

> yourself as close as you comfortably can to the final state of the asana

> and

> breathing... there are always greater challenges.. there is no end to

> it...

> putting ones legs behind ones head is absolutely irrelevent to the

> betterment of mankind.. it is just a tool to straighten out our hearts and

> minds.. its absoloutely wonderful that you discipline yourself to

> practice..

> do that and take the pressure off yourself about what you can achieve..

> putting to much pressure on ourselves is a recipe for giving up.. yoga is

> a

> lifetimes work.. we must pace ourselves

>

> mart

[Guest guest]

ashtangayoga , sarah canizzaro

<kojimapearl wrote:

>

> that was very well said! i was a child gymnast, and so i have

quite the opposite lessons. thanks for chiming in! moti

>

> " mart ... " <martw77 wrote:

Heya.. with Ashtanga it is all to easy to become over identified

with the

> body... yoga is not about being able to do postures.. one cannot

see yoga in

> action... any well trained gymnaste can come along and 'perform'

asana with

> great ease.. this is not yoga.. you will steady your mind and

bring health

> and vitality to your body and enrich your life through just

gently bringing

> yourself as close as you comfortably can to the final state of

the asana and

> breathing... there are always greater challenges.. there is no

end to it...

> putting ones legs behind ones head is absolutely irrelevent to

the

> betterment of mankind.. it is just a tool to straighten out our

hearts and

> minds.. its absoloutely wonderful that you discipline yourself to

practice..

> do that and take the pressure off yourself about what you can

achieve..

> putting to much pressure on ourselves is a recipe for giving up..

yoga is a

> lifetimes work.. we must pace ourselves

>

> mart

>

>

> hi Mart, i read your message to Heya. I totally agree with you.

What's your level in astanga ? Are you a teacher or a student ?

 

i'm looking for an experienced astanga yoga teacher from 26 june to

7 of july.

 

i'm a PhD psychologist practicing actually in Athens (holistic

approach) and i'm organising a retreat in the mountain Pelion, in

the beach of Milopotamos. Christina Karitinos - Ireland was the

astanga yoga teacher that i invited in the retreat but she's getting

maried and she annulated her collaboration.

 

If you're interested please reply as soon as possible. Thank you

 

Namaste

Maria

>

>

>

> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

who knows.

> Answers - Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guruji says the last pose of the sequence is not savasana. It's much too

advanced for most

practitioners. You just " take rest! "

And as David Williams says about goal oriented asana practice, " There will

always be

someone stronger than you, someone more flexible, someone with better hair! "

At the end of the day try to take what you have learned off the mat into your

life and you

will be practicing yoga. That's the hardest part,

YB

 

 

 

 

ashtangayoga , " mart ... " <martw77 wrote:

>

> Vik..

>

> hehe.. yes you are right putting your legs behind your head does help to

> diminish unecessary thoughts.. every asana with focused breathing does..

> even if you havn't reached the asanas final state.. its very humbling

> repeatedly putting you legs behind your head... without a down to Earth and

> humble attitude it becomes too much.. but the asana is not the goal.. in

> fact i would say as far as possible it is important to have a goal-less

> attitude if we are to allow in what yoga has to offer.. preconcieved ideas

> and attitudes can just create further ideas and attitudes, effectively

> blocking out the unfettered experience of the self.

>

> Lots of good advice about hip opening from P. Olof Osterling and also about

> consistent practice from Tom Hunter...

>

> I dont often respond to the posts but i read them all.. i guess i just

> wanted (in my clumsy way) to point to the beauty of the practice irrelevent

> of what shape ones body is in.. and actually i would say Savasana is one of

> the most advanced asana in Ashtanga yoga... one should never become

> disheartned by an asana as there is always tomorrow to gently approach it

> once more...

>

> One more thing.. mind over matter or matter over mind? .. i guess in this

> context refers to the mind and the body (as the matter).. its not a question

> of one or the other as both the statements hold true.. the mind affects the

> body as does the body affect the mind... its a two way relationship.

>

> Anyway.. enough from me.. love to you all .. mart.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vik,

 

I feel your frustration. I too am having problems with my knees. I

injured my knee quite badly a few months back. This injury has made

me take a totally different view on my practice. It has made me

realise i haven't been taking good care of my knees since i started

ashtanga (3 years ago now). Also, as others have pointed out in this

post, i've realised that the next pose isn't everything, enjoying

where you are at, is more important. I know this is very hard advice

to take because you'll only realise it yourself over time and usually

its when you injure yourself that you'll take stock and reflect on

what you were actually doing wrong. So the key is to try to not

injure those knees! Because when you do injure them they take a long

long time to heal!!

The things i've learned over the last few months are

 

Hip openers are so so so important. If you don't have the flexibility

in the hips then all the force will be placed on the knee which you

don't want. I thought I was taking care of this one by doing loads of

the pigeon pose, but i realise now this wasn't the only solution. I

think pigeon takes care of those muscles and ligaments on the outside

of the hips like the gluteus maximus and minimus, well that's how it

felt for me anyway. But really I should have been working on the

internal ligaments of the sacroiliac joint, i.e. the psoas and the

iliacus. Badda Konasana is probably a good one for this, but really

just sitting cross legged for long periods is the best one for it. I

do some pranayama in the morning, i get three books, sit on them in

cross legged and leave my knees float down to the ground naturally.

Over time when my knees touch the ground comfortably, i'll slowly rip

out the pages of the books until the day when i'm sitting on the

ground comfortably without any " prop " . When you're watching tv

instead of sitting on a chair, jump down on the ground and work on

those hips opening, and when i saw work, its not any forcing but just

leaving the hips open naturally.

Before I injured my knee I was flying through the primary series up

to Mari C, i used to continue through it and adjust Mari D and Supta

Kurmasana and go through till the end. This was great but when it

came to sitting cross legged for 10/20 minutes i found it very hard

because my hips were really stiff. I don't think the primary series

was doing anything major for those internal ligaments. I think you

need to work on them outside your practice. There are poses in the

primary series which will owrk them but it's more subtle. I read a

good article on yoga journal written by Maty Ezraty on taking care of

the knee's, I can't find the article though sorry, but she emphasized

the rotation of the the legs in warrior II (Virabatrasana B) and

Utthita Parsvakonasana, this will work on those internal ligaments.

It's only when i went away and practised listening to those ligaments

that i actually realised, oh ya i can feel it.

 

Another thing i learned was something i saw in Gregor Maehle's

book " Ashtanga Yoga: Practice and Philosophy " (Great Book, a Must

Buy). He does a really good explanation of Ardha Baddha

Padmottanasana, the first kindof 'hip/knee' pose in the standing

sequence. You should at all times keep the knee locked, bring the

knee up to the chest while keeping the ankle touching the buttock, if

you can't do this then you need more hip openers. If you can, THEN

you can place the foot into half lotus by slowly rotating the hip of

the bent knee keeping the knee totally locked at all time. This is

the important thing, the rotation needs to come from the HIP and not

the knee, and this is the hardest lesson to learn i think. You need

to get that femur rotating in the hip joint and if those ligaments

surrounding that hip joint are stiff then its not going to happen and

the knee will take the pressure. I read it a few times elsewhere but

i really never understood it, it took me a while to figure it out.

Another book which explains it pretty well is " Key Muscles of Hatha

Yoga " by Ray Long. He explains that by locking the knee, the idea is

to have as much of the surfaces of the femur and tibia touching, so

when there's a large force applied to the joint all the joint can

take it but if the joints are out of line a smaller contact surface

will find it harder to take this force, which is what happens in the

most common ashtanga yoga knee injury: Medial Meniscus tear. Too much

force on one little area, and TEAR! So its very important to keep the

knee locked.

 

One more piece of advice. You're the only one who knows your own

body. You'll only find out for yourself by experimentation what works

for you specifically. The reason I say this is because I read that

Virasana is good for the knees, so I was doing it with my meniscus

tear. It was only over time by reading up on anatomy etc. that I

realized it wasn't good for my injury at all. The rotation of the

tibia with the femur in this position was putting pressure right on

my tear and making it worse. It was only when I stopped this pose

that I got some relief. So just be careful what you do with your

knee. If you're doing something that doesn't feel good on the knees,

stop and and adjust it so that it feels good.

 

Sorry for the long winded mail, and I wish you the best on you knee

journey.

 

Namaste,

Niall.