Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear members, One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood. Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and common sense. In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed. Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed “punah samskaras”. This does not mean “punar upanayana” ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama parayana. These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya karmas in abroad. However, in abroad, one can perform one’s nityakarma without the Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one’s name, gotra, and say that “mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah / madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye”. Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel to England. With regards, Sriram Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Dear members, There is a small typing error. In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform the prayaschita karma. This is not true. One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be mislead by my earlier mail. With regds, sriram venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: Dear members, One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood. Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and common sense. In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed. Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed “punah samskaras”. This does not mean “punar upanayana” ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama parayana. These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya karmas in abroad. However, in abroad, one can perform one’s nityakarma without the Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one’s name, gotra, and say that “mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah / madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye”. Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel to England. With regards, Sriram Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Dear brothers and sisters, This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian way. I am sure nobody will disagree when I say that you are not clean unless you clean the Indian way. Following this, you cannot wash your feet since the bathrooms have no place for the water to drain other than the sinks or the shower tubs. This is absolutely difficult and worse when you are on the plane and you have space of about a square feet to stand around. I do not overexagerrate when I say how much ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives. But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here. I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might prevail there. Apavitro pavitro vaa Sarvavastan gatopi vaa Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahya antah shuchih , venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear members, > > There is a small typing error. > > In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform the prayaschita karma. This is not true. > > One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be mislead by my earlier mail. > > With regds, > sriram > > venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > Dear members, > > One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood. > > Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and common sense. > > In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed. > > Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed " punah samskaras " . This does not mean " punar upanayana " ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama parayana. > > These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya karmas in abroad. > > However, in abroad, one can perform one's nityakarma without the Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one's name, gotra, and say that " mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah / madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye " . > > Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel to England. > > With regards, > Sriram > > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Since this comes under AchAra I thought of making a few commments. , " karthikvathula " <karthikvathula wrote: > But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others > apart, life is not easy here. I find that statement offensive. It is not like you will become a bhraShTa or that the devata-s will run away from you if you shake hands with foreigners. I fail to understand what is so objectionable about mlechcha samparka. If that is one's attitude towards them then one should avoid going outside India in the first place. > I do not overexagerrate when I say how much > ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult > to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in > the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having > probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything > has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives. It is possible to get bhojya food if one stays long enough. when one gets used to finding things it will not be much of a problem. Just ask any upAsaka-s who have been staying there for some time. I really fail to understand this obsession with vegetarianism! You talk as if devata-s wil be displeased with you if you eat meat. See manu and other smriti-s. > But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in > this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two > ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous > commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here. 1) It is not that difficult after getting used to things. 2) It is wrong to think the devata-s will not be pleased with your upAsaan or that somehow they desert you if you got to a foreign land. Through out history great mantra shAstra teachers travelled to different lands through sea and initiated many non Indians and settled in foreign lands. > I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a > small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might > prevail there. Not true. Wherever one is, the devata-s will be pleased, rituals will work etc if the right procedures are followed with dedication to tradition. FYI some of the best upAsaka-s that I know, live in US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Dear karthik, But life is not that tough in US as i learnt from my friends. My gurunatha's third son is a visiting professor of philosphy at University of Pensylvannia. He is very traditional in his life style. No coke, no pizzas, no burgers, no icecreams, no egg, no meat, NO ONIONS AND GARLIC. But still he manages to visit US very often to the universities in chicago, boston, new jersey. With regards, sriram karthikvathula <karthikvathula wrote: Dear brothers and sisters, This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian way. I am sure nobody will disagree when I say that you are not clean unless you clean the Indian way. Following this, you cannot wash your feet since the bathrooms have no place for the water to drain other than the sinks or the shower tubs. This is absolutely difficult and worse when you are on the plane and you have space of about a square feet to stand around. I do not overexagerrate when I say how much ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives. But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here. I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might prevail there. Apavitro pavitro vaa Sarvavastan gatopi vaa Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahya antah shuchih , venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear members, > > There is a small typing error. > > In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform the prayaschita karma. This is not true. > > One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be mislead by my earlier mail. > > With regds, > sriram > > venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > Dear members, > > One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood. > > Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and common sense. > > In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed. > > Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed " punah samskaras " . This does not mean " punar upanayana " ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama parayana. > > These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya karmas in abroad. > > However, in abroad, one can perform one's nityakarma without the Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one's name, gotra, and say that " mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah / madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye " . > > Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel to England. > > With regards, > Sriram > > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Dear ramji, I appreciate your scriptural knowledge and deep insight in srividya for which i prostrate at your feet. But as far achara dharma is concerned it is formulated and restricted as per the desa and kaala of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa. Now what exactly and till what extent is this jambu dwipa (its boundaries) is a debatable issue. Certain parts of Afganisthan was in Bharata khanda. It is also said but i am not sure that uzbekisthan, and certain parts of Russia also fall into bharata khanda. So, the concept of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa is a debatable issue. Moreover, speaking of achara dharmas Kanchi Periyaavaal insisted on certain issues. Now how many of us are following them. " ashta varshaad bhavet kanya " which means a girl should be married off at the age of 8 before she attains maturity. Certain aspects of varna asrama dharma and untouchability he advocated which is a SIN nowadays to speak of. How many brahmins nowadays are performing the upanayana ceremony of their sons at the eight of 8. How many are performing sandhya vanadana and gayatri japa. Prayaschitas are prescribed if we omit these karma kandas. Are we meticulously performing these? Srinivas Rao , venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear karthik, > > Namaste. You are absolutely right and i understand your problem. > > The ulterior motive of going abroad is earning money that means among the 4 purusharthaas (dharma, artha, kama, moksha) one is giving much importance to artha and kama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Shree Gurubhyo Namah Dear friend: Do not despair during your visit to USA. Focus on the success of your mission while you are here. I do have the following comments, though. 1. Regarding sannyaasiis. There are sannyaasis and then there are sannyaasis. In USA, you will find a mixed bag of Sannyaasi visitors. The first and most predominant are those who are driven by a service motive, and do not want anything for themselves. They are usually here to try and collect funds for some project or other in India - a temple, a hospital, a school, upliftment of orphans, upliftment of women and so on. And then, of course, you know as well as I do that there are some who come here for the Mercedes cars, the silk dhotiis and the closed / sealed envelopes handed to them on brand new silver plates. You should choose carefully when you visit any of them in USA. You can usually judge for yourself within a few minutes. In my experience, I have found the service oriented type much more than the self-oriented type in USA. 2. Regarding diet. Here are some tips. - If you must eat outside, then try to eat at restaurants that serve salad buffets. You can have salads with spinach, tomatoes, and various other veggies. You can put some italian or french dressing ( these are the only dressings without eggs ). You can have some bread and butter on the side. This will get you through the meal. - If you are at home, you can cook up some rice, put some pure yoghurt (with acidophilus bacteria) on it, and add some grapes and cut apples, some salt, cut green chillies and some cilantro. This is a healthy, easy, quick, wholesome and satisfying meal. I know some student friends that have survived on this diet for 8 years or more at a stretch. All of this is available in any grocery store. - If you can go to some indian grocery stores, there are many pre-packed veggie meals. You can find puliyodharai, mattar paneer, dals, alu mattar and many types of north indian curries, naan, chappathi, parathas and so on. These are heat and eat kind of meals. There will surely be some microwave at any business you visit. You can eat these out of paper plates. Various pickles are also available, which you can then eat with the curd rice. - As you continue to live in USA, you will find your own techniques for keeping your vegetarianism. - Some advice. Dont be apologetic about your vegetarianism. Just call it a personal preference. Dont talk to the locals about the religion and other stuff or dont give the impression that vegetarianism is somehow superior to eating meat. That approach will only get you a whole lot of grief that you can do without. Some americans believe that non-veg diet is the way to go, and are very aggressive about it. 3. Be aware of your childhood training. Our Indian culture drills it into us that our culture is best. I do not disagree. But then you come outside the country, and you see all the attrocities that are going on in the name of culture, in the middle of all the good things. So, with time, you will find a sense of acceptance and heightened awareness that cultures are basically good everywhere, and that some branches of that same culture are misguided and we should not personally accept the bad parts of those cultures. 4. Regarding your cleanliness. You can carry a small bottle of drinking water with you. These are available everywhere... hotels, vending machines and so on. For outside purposes, you can use it for drinking, and then throw it away once you are done. Finally, I repeat to you your own quote. Apavitrah pavitro vaa Sarvavastangatopi vaa Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahyaantah shuchih. Dont forget the above words, and dont forget you daily prayers / nitya karmas. This will surely give you both antah and bahishshuchih. Thanks. Shree Maathre Namah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Dear karthik, Wonderful advice has been given by our member Shri Kumar. Any problems over there you can contact several of our forum members. They are ready to extend whatever help that is possible. We are with you dear. Donot despair. With love and regards sriram , " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote: > > Shree Gurubhyo Namah > > Dear friend: > > Do not despair during your visit to USA. Focus on the success of your mission while you are here. > > I do have the following comments, though. > > 1. Regarding sannyaasiis. There are sannyaasis and then there are sannyaasis. In USA, you will find a mixed bag of Sannyaasi visitors. The first and most predominant are those who are driven by a service motive, and do not want anything for themselves. They are usually here to try and collect funds for some project or other in India - a temple, a hospital, a school, upliftment of orphans, upliftment of women and so on. And then, of course, you know as well as I do that there are some who come here for the Mercedes cars, the silk dhotiis and the closed / sealed envelopes handed to them on brand new silver plates. You should choose carefully when you visit any of them in USA. You can usually judge for yourself within a few minutes. In my experience, I have found the service oriented type much more than the self-oriented type in USA. > > 2. Regarding diet. Here are some tips. > > - If you must eat outside, then try to eat at restaurants that serve salad buffets. You can have salads with spinach, tomatoes, and various other veggies. You can put some italian or french dressing ( these are the only dressings without eggs ). You can have some bread and butter on the side. This will get you through the meal. > > - If you are at home, you can cook up some rice, put some pure yoghurt (with acidophilus bacteria) on it, and add some grapes and cut apples, some salt, cut green chillies and some cilantro. This is a healthy, easy, quick, wholesome and satisfying meal. I know some student friends that have survived on this diet for 8 years or more at a stretch. All of this is available in any grocery store. > > - If you can go to some indian grocery stores, there are many pre-packed veggie meals. You can find puliyodharai, mattar paneer, dals, alu mattar and many types of north indian curries, naan, chappathi, parathas and so on. These are heat and eat kind of meals. There will surely be some microwave at any business you visit. You can eat these out of paper plates. Various pickles are also available, which you can then eat with the curd rice. > > - As you continue to live in USA, you will find your own techniques for keeping your vegetarianism. > > - Some advice. Dont be apologetic about your vegetarianism. Just call it a personal preference. Dont talk to the locals about the religion and other stuff or dont give the impression that vegetarianism is somehow superior to eating meat. That approach will only get you a whole lot of grief that you can do without. Some americans believe that non-veg diet is the way to go, and are very aggressive about it. > > 3. Be aware of your childhood training. Our Indian culture drills it into us that our culture is best. I do not disagree. But then you come outside the country, and you see all the attrocities that are going on in the name of culture, in the middle of all the good things. So, with time, you will find a sense of acceptance and heightened awareness that cultures are basically good everywhere, and that some branches of that same culture are misguided and we should not personally accept the bad parts of those cultures. > > 4. Regarding your cleanliness. You can carry a small bottle of drinking water with you. These are available everywhere... hotels, vending machines and so on. For outside purposes, you can use it for drinking, and then throw it away once you are done. > > > Finally, I repeat to you your own quote. > > Apavitrah pavitro vaa Sarvavastangatopi vaa > Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahyaantah shuchih. > > Dont forget the above words, and dont forget you daily prayers / nitya karmas. This will surely give you both antah and bahishshuchih. > > Thanks. > > Shree Maathre Namah. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Dear Sri Shriram and Kumar, Thank you all very much for your excellent advice. Indeed, Sri Kumar's points were really helpful, in that I felt better at his recommendations on the foods. I have been eating for almost the complete duration of my trip on in Subways, staying on their veg sandwiches. Sri Satish, Why is it that you always want to sound like a reformist or a secularist. This is not just with my present mail, but several other previous mails, which I have quietly followed. SA: You are probably right that at times some posts had such a tone but IMHO there is nothing to be reformed or changed except for looking at teh validity of few assumptions closely. I don't quite understand what is there for you to feel offensive about my comment on mleccha samparka. If you read carefully I said apart from samudrayana and mleccha samparka. SA: Can you reduce using the word mlechcha? There are non Indians in the list. Dont you think it is inappropriate to use that word before them? Most people know what you mean by that compound word. Is it not implied in your statement that going around with foreigners is somehow polluting? It is not necessary that one needs to travel abroad to come across mleccha samparka. We have enough of them in India as well. I just meant to speak about the achara and food part of it in my mail. I didn't say that the devathas would be unpleased with me if I partook meat. I am most disturbed by the fact that a lot of food here has to do with beef, and if you didn't know what that means, it means the meat of a cow. And I consider the cow as my mother and I don't like to eat my mother. It is not that I am vegetarian only because my dharma advocates it. It would also have to do with jivakarunya, too. And above all, if the Dharmacharyas have advised and preached about something, I would want to follow that to whatever extent I can, and they don't seem to speak very highly about eating animals. I would also like to ask if meat eating is fine, then why limit to those derived from a lamb, goat, cow, chicken, turkey or a pig. Go ahead and eat the lions and tigers. SA: Typical rant. In all, I just want say that I very well want to avoid going outside India in the first place. I have had enough with this already. As Shriram says, most people want to go abroad to make money and I don't really have any ideas of that sort. I would rather stay back in India earning whatever the Divine Mother has provided me with. And I don't really care if some " best " upasakas live outside of India. I care about myself and my upasana. SA: Perhaps you forgot that I mentioned it in the context of the following statement you made. The point of mentioning that is to show that achAra(atleast to a reasonable extent) is possible even outside India. So your " conclusions " are not entirely correct. " I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here. I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might prevail there. " Karthik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 is it not that kUshmAnda homam is considered a sarva praayaschitham and will be sufficient for samudryAnam? regards Vishwam venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:39:53 AM Re: Re: Prayaschita during samudrayana Dear karthik, Namaste. You are absolutely right and i understand your problem. The ulterior motive of going abroad is earning money that means among the 4 purusharthaas (dharma, artha, kama, moksha) one is giving much importance to artha and kama. And i equally understand why the todays CYBER-GURUS and the so-called " UPASAKAS " are making beeline at counsellate offices for visas. I think this mail has come to you at APPROPRIATE TIME. As soon as you come back to India, do prayaschita. If you can afford perform GODAANA. Get the Gayatri and Ganapati Homam performed at your house. Chant Bhagavatgita and Vishnu Sahasranama. But do a minimum of Gayatri Japa (at least 10). This is my sincere advice. With regards, sriram karthikvathula <karthikvathula@ > wrote: Dear brothers and sisters, This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian way. I am sure nobody will disagree when I say that you are not clean unless you clean the Indian way. Following this, you cannot wash your feet since the bathrooms have no place for the water to drain other than the sinks or the shower tubs. This is absolutely difficult and worse when you are on the plane and you have space of about a square feet to stand around. I do not overexagerrate when I say how much ever vegetarianism is on the rise in the west, it is still difficult to get veg food. Even if you get them, I am sure they are cooked in the same vessels as nonveg food is cooked. So you still end up having probably a wee bit of meat or anything into you. Almost everything has a bit of egg and/or gelatin in them which are animal derivatives. But one thing that I completely fail to understand is when things in this part of the world are so difficult for people in the first two ashramas, I really do not know why Sanyasins with their rigorous commitments to their ashrama dharma want to come over here. I conclude saying that even if you want to follow dharma to even a small extent, the place for you is India, how much ever adharma might prevail there. Apavitro pavitro vaa Sarvavastan gatopi vaa Yah smaret Pundarikaksham sa bahya antah shuchih @ .com, venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear members, > > There is a small typing error. > > In the last paragraph, i have mentioned that no need to perform the prayaschita karma. This is not true. > > One need to perform prayaschita kanda which is mandatory after returning from abroad. But one need to do the parayana of gita and VS daily. This was the words of Nrsimha Bharati swamigal. So, donot be mislead by my earlier mail. > > With regds, > sriram > > venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > Dear members, > > One of my close friends was leaving for US and expressed a doubt what sort of prayaschita should be performed after returning back.. Well, this doubt seems to a valid point to be noted down and it requires due attention now a days as most of the upasakas are moving abroad for their livelihood. > > Strictly speaking, the parashara and baudhyana grihya sutras have prescribed ban related to samudrayana. But let us try to analyse it with little logic and common sense. > > In olden days when there was no proper means of transport, ships and boats were used for traveling to another country which would take days to travel. So, an orthodox Brahmin for fear of skipping his Nitya Sandhyavandana, Agnihotra, Devatarchana, Vaisvadeva would not travel by ship or boat. And hence, depending upon the circumstances of those days, these rules were framed. > > Nevertheless, there is association with mlecchaas which is a sin. In order to get rid of this sin of association with mlecchas, Baudhayana prescribed " punah samskaras " . This does not mean " punar upanayana " ceremony. This includes charity of cow (godana), sahasrara gayatri japa for forty days, bhagavat gita and Vishnu sahasranama parayana. > > These prayaschita kanda is for the Brahmins who have given up their nitya karmas in abroad. > > However, in abroad, one can perform one's nityakarma without the Desa Kala Samkirtana (bharata varshe ……….) while doing the samkalpam. One need not utter the samkalpa " bharata varshe bharata khande ........nithi/ vara/nakshtatra etc. Just utter one's name, gotra, and say that " mama upattha samastha durita kshaya dwara sri parameshwaram uddisya sri parameswara prityartham prathah / madhyanika/sayam sandhyaam / siva panchayatanam / sripadukaanushtanam karishye " . > > Daily recital of Bhagavat Gita and Vishnu Sahasranama incurs no sin and one need not perform the prayaschita kanda if one recites these two. This was approved by Shri Satchidananda Nrisimha Bharati Swami of Sringeri to Krishnaraja Wodeyar, king of mysore, while his travel to England. > > With regards, > Sriram > > > ------------ --------- --------- --- > Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Dear srinivas, Certain aspects of these acharas are very volatile and debatable which involves controversial aspects. So better we stop this thread with this mail. But before that i would like to comment on these issues: Point 1: My mail on pryaschita for samudrayana is entirely a different issue. The person who is not doing the nitya karma abroad can omit the prayaschita. Now, " mleccha " means the person who performs cow slaughter and consumes the beef. We Hindus, regard the cow as an aspect of Mother Gayatri and Kamadhenu. So, when the same cow which we regard as Divine Mother, when is being slaughtered before us, is it not a sin to be associated with these people. Point 2: We regard Kanchi Mahaperiyavaal as Mother Kamakshi herself. And he is our Parama Guru. His Holiness gave Golden Srichakra and Gayatri Yantra to my gurunatha. Point 3: The marriageable age limit of a girl child is a debatable issue. It is said that when the girl, after attaining the maturity, is married then prayaschita is performed. And when a husband marries such a girl (post-matured) is not allowed to performed Paundarika Yajna. Prayaschita for rajasvala dosha is performed. I donot know how far it is true and i have not studied the deep intricacies of this dharma. Brahmasri Vashishta Ganapati Muni had compiled a work called " Sadachara Dipika " which is a compilation of entire dharma sastra. In this book, he mentions that the " Marriageable Age Limit for a Girl in 16 " and he quotes ample sastraic quotations in this support. The words of Ganapati Muni is an authority in our family for he being our great grandfather. Morever, our family, though rooted in tradition and orthodoxy, does not believe in the dictum " OLD IS GOLD " . Ganapti Muni was a staunch Gandhian and only wore khadi dress influenced by Mahatma. My Grandfather participated in freedom struggle. Ganapati Muni was against UNTOUCHABILITY. Ganapti Muni was invited by Kanchi Mahaperiyavaal to hold the position of Asthana Srividyopasaka at Kamakoti Pita which he rejected. Because, Ganapati Muni was a FIREBRAND. At Kharagpur, Mahaperiyavaal and Ganapati Muni met each other and discussed certain issues of Veda Rennaisance and means of Freedom Struggle. Infact, both of them were of the opinion that Sanskrit should be the National Language. Things took a different turn with the intervention of Gandhi and Hindi was thrust on us. And moreover, i didnot find any great achievements of girls who were married off at the age of 8. By the time they are 18, they are mother of half a dozen children and by the time they are 35 or 40 they attain widowhood. Please donot bring the cases of Gargi, Maitreyi and other Rishikas to support your statement. With regards, Sriram srinivasrao197080 <srinivasrao197080 wrote: Dear ramji, I appreciate your scriptural knowledge and deep insight in srividya for which i prostrate at your feet. But as far achara dharma is concerned it is formulated and restricted as per the desa and kaala of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa. Now what exactly and till what extent is this jambu dwipa (its boundaries) is a debatable issue. Certain parts of Afganisthan was in Bharata khanda. It is also said but i am not sure that uzbekisthan, and certain parts of Russia also fall into bharata khanda. So, the concept of bharata khanda and jambu dwipa is a debatable issue. Moreover, speaking of achara dharmas Kanchi Periyaavaal insisted on certain issues. Now how many of us are following them. " ashta varshaad bhavet kanya " which means a girl should be married off at the age of 8 before she attains maturity. Certain aspects of varna asrama dharma and untouchability he advocated which is a SIN nowadays to speak of. How many brahmins nowadays are performing the upanayana ceremony of their sons at the eight of 8. How many are performing sandhya vanadana and gayatri japa. Prayaschitas are prescribed if we omit these karma kandas. Are we meticulously performing these? Srinivas Rao , venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > Dear karthik, > > Namaste. You are absolutely right and i understand your problem. > > The ulterior motive of going abroad is earning money that means among the 4 purusharthaas (dharma, artha, kama, moksha) one is giving much importance to artha and kama. Share files, take polls, and make new friends - all under one roof. Click here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Shri Gurubhyo Namah: Friends: The word " adharma " in the Shri Karthik's email sparked a subject. Please comment on : 1. " dharmaadharma vivarjitaa " . (LS). 2. " adharma eva dharmaH " . (Kaulopanishad - I think). Thanks. KR. ShrI maatre namah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Dear kumar, Namaste. Why do you bring the poor Mother Lalitha into this controversy ...ha ha ha. She is beyond the dualities of dharma and adharma. It is that state of AWARENESS or CONSCIOUSNESS which is untouched by dharma and adharma, Punya and Papa, Sukha and Dukha. That state is the state of Aapthakaamah. She is not bound by either dharma or by adharma. She has nothing to achieve by treading dharma marga and nothing to lose by treading adharma marga. And hence, she is Dharma Adharma Vivarjita. But she is SADACHARAPRAVARTHIKA AND VARNASHRAMAVIDHAYINI. We ordinary mortals should reflect on these two names and ponder where do we stand. With regards, Sriram , " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote: > > Shri Gurubhyo Namah: > > Friends: > > The word " adharma " in the Shri Karthik's email sparked a subject. > Please comment on : > > 1. " dharmaadharma vivarjitaa " . (LS). > 2. " adharma eva dharmaH " . (Kaulopanishad - I think). > > Thanks. > KR. > > ShrI maatre namah. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sri gurubhyo namaha. Humble namaskarams to all. Since this topic has been relpied to by various people already there probably is no merit in me rehashing this again. But try as I might, I am not able to not raise this here by my mail. In the original query and in the replies that followed more than any sastra pramana being elucidated,there seems to be more prejudice and bias. I find the dichotomy (which is such an ever present under current in the lives of most of us whether in India or abroad) totally alien to the vision that is actually sought by the performance of the ordained karmas. What is the use of repeated japa of gayatri or panchadashi or anything else if it does not produce the slightest bit of broad mindedness? While most of us repeat 'aham brahmasmi' etc three times during the sandhya vandhana, it seems to be just a mechanical statement without the slightest belief in its profoundity and universality. The attitude and state of mental maturity that is evident from the words ' mleccha samparka' etc make me remember the incident in Varanasi when Shankaracharya was met by Shiva in the guise of a chandala. No matter how much one intelectually preaches advaita and philosophises about the oneness of being etc, ones true colours and bias are made manifest through the way one reacts to situations. How many of us adhere to the words of the dharma sastras in reality? We use them and abuse them suit out selfish motives really and nothing more (aggreed, I am generalising here and I mean no disrespect to those really living their lives in tune with the dharmic precepts - rather I am in constant awe of those beings). We dont walk around wearing only a veshti and angavastram, we are well used to being in shirts, shorts, trousers, coats, ties and what not which certainly did not get a recommendation in the dharma sastras.The dwijas do not necessarily refrain from business,employment or any other trade/source of income and rely on meagre earnings from conducting ceremonies and spreading the vedas. We dont marry off our children when they are eight. God, we really dont practice any of the dharmic injuncts to the degree where the effects of the so called 'mleccha samparka' etc merit being felt or noticed. Dharma texts and vedic injunctions apart, it is a small and lowly human being who is unable to open him/herself enough to accomodate those who are not his ilk. More so when one leaves for a foreign land. I feel it is the loss of the person who allows themselves to be blinkered by dusty dogma and foolish notions so as to not be able to see the same devi/siva/atma everywhere.Even the words that 'we are forced to go abroad for employment/business' is a classic 'victim' perception. Why go in the first place if one is unable to feel and see the good elsewhere? Would one so strongly bothered by adhering to dharma not be better off starving in the 'punya bhumi' than go elsewhere to satisfy ones appetite and greed for money and everything else? Why is it that those claiming to follow the most subtle and great paths always show themselves to be so small minded? I live in Ireland and have been doing so for the past 11 years. I do not find any trouble in being vegetarian (and finding good vegetarian food apart from in Subway),in upholding my brahmin way of life,in following my upasana or anything else for that matter.But then again, I am not so caught up in a belief system that percieves everyone apart from me and my kind as being in anyway inferior or crude or pagan.Every person I meet reflects yet another facet of my Tripurasundari and incites me to break down more of those mental barriers that cage me and make me belive that I am just confined to this 'en jaan odambu' (this body of flesh and bones). My apologies if I have hurt the sentiments of any - never my intention. And I take full responsibility for my views as until She teaches me different this I really believe in. , " karthikvathula " <karthikvathula wrote: > > Dear brothers and sisters, > > This below mail from Shriman Shriram could not have come in at an > appropriate time. I am presently in the US on business and it was > nagging me about the prayaschittas for samudrayana since this is my > first trip abroad. But mleccha samparka, samudrayana, and others > apart, life is not easy here. This is applicable for people that > follow acharanushtanas to a very small extent. To begin with (pardon > me for being blatant, but I cannot help but quote this), wherever you > go here, you do not have the facility to clean yourself the Indian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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