Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I just got to thinking about this today, if rA = agni = rudra = shiva and mA = ambA = shakti then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? regards Vishwam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Sai Ram. Further to my earlier mail, an insight came that Rama represents the union of Siva and Shakti and thus represents the Arthanareeshwara Tatva (Purusha+Pakriti) and also Parabrahma (Which includes Parashakti). Sai Ram. Thanks for sharing. Swamy , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy <krishvishy wrote: > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > and > mA = ambA = shakti > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > regards > Vishwam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 , " S.V.Swamy " <truthseeker123x wrote: > > Sai Ram. Further to my earlier mail, an insight came that Rama > represents the union of Siva and Shakti and thus represents the > Arthanareeshwara Tatva (Purusha+Pakriti) and also Parabrahma (Which > includes Parashakti). Huh? This is nothing more than imagination. rA = agni = rudra or viShNu? Arent both praised at different places as the form of agni? How is mA amba? devI can either be thought of as parA bIja or as mAyA bIja. Or for vaiShNava-s devI is ramA bIja i.e. shrIM. What is the basis for mA = shakti or amba? Sometimes mA is thought of as lakShmI Furthermore shiva is represented by ha or sometimes with the bIja hauM. Does this now make ra = ha ? If rAmA is shivashakti rUpaM then everyone would have stopped worshipping shiva and devI and just worship rAmA. That did not happen simply because rAma is not shiva shakti rUpa. He is a good shiva bhakta. IMHO, this stretching of meaning does not serve any purpose other than gladden rAma bhakta-s for a while even though false. Regards > > Sai Ram. Thanks for sharing. > > Swamy > > , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy > <krishvishy@> wrote: > > > > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > > and > > mA = ambA = shakti > > > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > > > regards > > Vishwam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 shrI gurubhyo namaH shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH Friends: This subject was dealt with earlier in this site. I think it was then expressed the Lord rAmA is actually shakti swarUpam. (karA~nguli nakhotpanna nArAyaNa dashAkR^itiH) Also, it was expressed (if I'm not mistaken) that devI sItA is actually shiva swarUpam. I think Shri mahAperiyavAL (if I'm not mistaken), had also expressed this view. Scholars can correct me if I'm wrong. Regards. KR. shrI mAtre namaH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Dear vishwam, Any mantra shastra for that matter and especially shakta tantras should conform to the sastra maryAda which has to come from the guru parampara. Again it should conform to the bhAShyakArA and Rishi (seer) hridaya. Without understanding the rishi hridaya, mantra sastras, sahasranama parayanas are not encouraged. Once a scholar was giving lecture on Saundaryalahari at Sringeri before Shri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal. The scholar in the middle of the lecture while expounding the Lakshmidhara Bhashya, bypassed a little bit and added his own colours to the Saundaryalahari Bhashya. Immediately, Swamigal reprimanded that scholar saying that " one should not cross the limits of Shastra MaryAda as far as Bhashyas and Sutras are concerned " . Now, the word " tantra " means " tanyAtE vistAryatE jnAnam iti tantrah " . So, taking a sutra or a principle, the knowledge got spread and manifested itself around a single cardinal principle or a sutra. This is called Tantra. Now, the concepts of Tantra, Mantra and Yantra are inter-linked with each other. The tantra prescribes the upasana vidhi of the mantra anushtana. This upasana includes MantrArtha Chintana or the constant meditation and contemplation on the essence of the Mantra. This is " Shastra Maryada " . So, " wrong understanding of the mantra and improper understanding of the Rishi Hridaya " is aberration of Shastra Maryada which leads to Yogini PratyavAya. AND HENCE TO KNOW THE TANTRA SHASTRA ONE SHOULD APPROACH A UTTAMA GURU WHO IS FROM SAT-SAMPRADAYA. Now coming to the point: The word " rAmA " means: As per Sowbhagya Bhasakara: There are several interpretations by Bhaskara who says that all the males collectively taken can be called as " Vishnu " swarupa and the females collectively taken as " Lakshmi " Swarupa. And hence the Vyasti or Collective Principle of all the Women is rAmA. Or the Most Auspicious Lady is also called rAmA. However, the interpretation given below has appealed my intellect (which is also by Bhaskara). " ramantE asyAm yogina iti rAmA " ie, in whom yogis enjoy the Supreme Bliss is rAmA. Or " the bestower of Supreme Bliss " is rAmA. As per Kalyana Srikala: One whose nature is of Supreme Bliss is rAmA As per the ChandrikAkhya: " sarvEshAm prANinAm mangaLa sAdhana hEtu bhUtA iti rAmA. The form of all auspiciousness. There is one more rahasyArtha which has to be learnt from one's gurunatha. The sastra says that " agniShomIyAtmakam idam jagat " ie., the entire universe is nothing but the combination of Agni and Soma. Agni is Bhokta or Saktiman and Soma is Bhojya or Sakti or Poshana Kartri. So, " rAmA " denotes the " AgniShomIyAtmaka tattva " . This principle is more beautifully explained in the next name " ramaNa lampaTA " . Shri Vaidyanatha Dikshitar deviates from Shri Bhaskara while explaining the name " ramaNa lampaTA " which has appealed my intellect. The beauty of LS is that all the 1000 names are interlinked with each other like garland of flowers. Every name is a complete essence in itself and the meaning is carried forward by the succeeding names so that the bhava is not disturbed. Hope you got my point. So, try to understand the Rishi Hridaya (which are vAk devatas here) and try to refer the Saubhagya Bhaskara wherever you have any doubt at any name. Ponder over the name and TRY TO MEDITATE ON THAT NAME. Mother will open up the avenues. With regards, sriram , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy <krishvishy wrote: > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > and > mA = ambA = shakti > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > regards > Vishwam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 shrI gurubhyo namaH shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH Friends: While on the subject of Lord Rama. I want to present a small couplet written by my grand-uncle ( grand father's elder brother ). rAmAyA jitamAramAnasa nijArAmA parAmAnutA rAmArAdhita rAma kAmadapadA mArAmanasyApahA | rAmAyA timirAryamA sumasharA mAsAmarAmodadA sarvAnno vidadhAtu vA~nchhitaphalan shrIrAjarAjeshvarI || - lalitA dasaH. The name of Lord Rama appears nine times in this couple, representing the navarasas in the revered text of rAmAyaNam. However, it is still a prayer to shrI rAjarAjeshvarI regards. KR. shrI mAtre namaH - sriram Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:58 AM Re: rAmA Dear vishwam, Any mantra shastra for that matter and especially shakta tantras should conform to the sastra maryAda which has to come from the guru parampara. Again it should conform to the bhAShyakArA and Rishi (seer) hridaya. Without understanding the rishi hridaya, mantra sastras, sahasranama parayanas are not encouraged. Once a scholar was giving lecture on Saundaryalahari at Sringeri before Shri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal. The scholar in the middle of the lecture while expounding the Lakshmidhara Bhashya, bypassed a little bit and added his own colours to the Saundaryalahari Bhashya. Immediately, Swamigal reprimanded that scholar saying that " one should not cross the limits of Shastra MaryAda as far as Bhashyas and Sutras are concerned " . Now, the word " tantra " means " tanyAtE vistAryatE jnAnam iti tantrah " . So, taking a sutra or a principle, the knowledge got spread and manifested itself around a single cardinal principle or a sutra. This is called Tantra. Now, the concepts of Tantra, Mantra and Yantra are inter-linked with each other. The tantra prescribes the upasana vidhi of the mantra anushtana. This upasana includes MantrArtha Chintana or the constant meditation and contemplation on the essence of the Mantra. This is " Shastra Maryada " . So, " wrong understanding of the mantra and improper understanding of the Rishi Hridaya " is aberration of Shastra Maryada which leads to Yogini PratyavAya. AND HENCE TO KNOW THE TANTRA SHASTRA ONE SHOULD APPROACH A UTTAMA GURU WHO IS FROM SAT-SAMPRADAYA. Now coming to the point: The word " rAmA " means: As per Sowbhagya Bhasakara: There are several interpretations by Bhaskara who says that all the males collectively taken can be called as " Vishnu " swarupa and the females collectively taken as " Lakshmi " Swarupa. And hence the Vyasti or Collective Principle of all the Women is rAmA. Or the Most Auspicious Lady is also called rAmA. However, the interpretation given below has appealed my intellect (which is also by Bhaskara). " ramantE asyAm yogina iti rAmA " ie, in whom yogis enjoy the Supreme Bliss is rAmA. Or " the bestower of Supreme Bliss " is rAmA. As per Kalyana Srikala: One whose nature is of Supreme Bliss is rAmA As per the ChandrikAkhya: " sarvEshAm prANinAm mangaLa sAdhana hEtu bhUtA iti rAmA. The form of all auspiciousness. There is one more rahasyArtha which has to be learnt from one's gurunatha. The sastra says that " agniShomIyAtmakam idam jagat " ie., the entire universe is nothing but the combination of Agni and Soma. Agni is Bhokta or Saktiman and Soma is Bhojya or Sakti or Poshana Kartri. So, " rAmA " denotes the " AgniShomIyAtmaka tattva " . This principle is more beautifully explained in the next name " ramaNa lampaTA " . Shri Vaidyanatha Dikshitar deviates from Shri Bhaskara while explaining the name " ramaNa lampaTA " which has appealed my intellect. The beauty of LS is that all the 1000 names are interlinked with each other like garland of flowers. Every name is a complete essence in itself and the meaning is carried forward by the succeeding names so that the bhava is not disturbed. Hope you got my point. So, try to understand the Rishi Hridaya (which are vAk devatas here) and try to refer the Saubhagya Bhaskara wherever you have any doubt at any name. Ponder over the name and TRY TO MEDITATE ON THAT NAME. Mother will open up the avenues. With regards, sriram , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy <krishvishy wrote: > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > and > mA = ambA = shakti > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > regards > Vishwam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Respected Kumar, Namaste. There is a tendency to correlate Dasa Mahavidyas with Dasa Avataras which is quite questionable and could be an intellectual feat. Infact, Narayana has 24 avataras so how do they correlate with these. In Srividya Krama Diksha, these dasa avataras become the Anga Vidyas of Tripurasundari. So, when we refer the personality " Rama " , is it really the Son of Dasaratha or not is a debatable issue. Because the word " Rama " is not just the Son of Dasaratha but could be the Taraka Mantra which existed even before the " advent of Rama " whose objective is to " take across the ocean of samsara " . The word " Rama " implies " ramante yogino nante brahmAnandE chidAtmani " which means " the one is whom the Yogis enjoy the Bliss of Brahman " . So, when the son of Dasaratha was performing his lilas in Ayodhya, Sage Vashishta hit upon this name " Rama " and christened him with this name. Similarly, is the case with Krishna. It is the outlook of Shaktas to view everything as " sarvam saktimayam jagat " and hence the purana purushas are correlated with Sakti tattva. Neverthelesss, Rama is Maya Manusha Vigraha and Krishna is Lila Manusha Vigraha. Even the tantra says that Rama is Lalitha- swarupa and Krishna is Kali-swarupa. But how far it is acceptable is also again quite debatable. The names are christened in such a way that it signifies their action. Correct me if I am wrong. With regards, Sriram , " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote: > > shrI gurubhyo namaH > shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH > > Friends: > > While on the subject of Lord Rama. > > I want to present a small couplet written by my grand-uncle ( grand father's elder brother ). > > rAmAyA jitamAramAnasa nijArAmA parAmAnutA > rAmArAdhita rAma kAmadapadA mArAmanasyApahA | > > rAmAyA timirAryamA sumasharA mAsAmarAmodadA > sarvAnno vidadhAtu vA~nchhitaphalan shrIrAjarAjeshvarI || > - lalitA dasaH. > > The name of Lord Rama appears nine times in this couple, representing the navarasas in the revered text of rAmAyaNam. > > However, it is still a prayer to shrI rAjarAjeshvarI > > regards. > KR. > > shrI mAtre namaH > > - > sriram > > Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:58 AM > Re: rAmA > > > Dear vishwam, > > Any mantra shastra for that matter and especially shakta tantras > should conform to the sastra maryAda which has to come from the guru > parampara. Again it should conform to the bhAShyakArA and Rishi > (seer) hridaya. Without understanding the rishi hridaya, mantra > sastras, sahasranama parayanas are not encouraged. > > Once a scholar was giving lecture on Saundaryalahari at Sringeri > before Shri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal. The scholar in the middle > of the lecture while expounding the Lakshmidhara Bhashya, bypassed a > little bit and added his own colours to the Saundaryalahari Bhashya. > Immediately, Swamigal reprimanded that scholar saying that " one > should not cross the limits of Shastra MaryAda as far as Bhashyas and > Sutras are concerned " . > > Now, the word " tantra " means " tanyAtE vistAryatE jnAnam iti > tantrah " . So, taking a sutra or a principle, the knowledge got > spread and manifested itself around a single cardinal principle or a > sutra. This is called Tantra. Now, the concepts of Tantra, Mantra > and Yantra are inter-linked with each other. The tantra prescribes > the upasana vidhi of the mantra anushtana. This upasana includes > MantrArtha Chintana or the constant meditation and contemplation on > the essence of the Mantra. This is " Shastra Maryada " . > > So, " wrong understanding of the mantra and improper understanding of > the Rishi Hridaya " is aberration of Shastra Maryada which leads to > Yogini PratyavAya. > > AND HENCE TO KNOW THE TANTRA SHASTRA ONE SHOULD APPROACH A UTTAMA > GURU WHO IS FROM SAT-SAMPRADAYA. > > Now coming to the point: The word " rAmA " means: > > As per Sowbhagya Bhasakara: > > There are several interpretations by Bhaskara who says that all the > males collectively taken can be called as " Vishnu " swarupa and the > females collectively taken as " Lakshmi " Swarupa. And hence the > Vyasti or Collective Principle of all the Women is rAmA. Or the Most > Auspicious Lady is also called rAmA. However, the interpretation > given below has appealed my intellect (which is also by Bhaskara). > > " ramantE asyAm yogina iti rAmA " ie, in whom yogis enjoy the Supreme > Bliss is rAmA. Or " the bestower of Supreme Bliss " is rAmA. > > As per Kalyana Srikala: > > One whose nature is of Supreme Bliss is rAmA > > As per the ChandrikAkhya: " sarvEshAm prANinAm mangaLa sAdhana hEtu > bhUtA iti rAmA. The form of all auspiciousness. > > There is one more rahasyArtha which has to be learnt from one's > gurunatha. The sastra says that " agniShomIyAtmakam idam jagat " ie., > the entire universe is nothing but the combination of Agni and Soma. > Agni is Bhokta or Saktiman and Soma is Bhojya or Sakti or Poshana > Kartri. So, " rAmA " denotes the " AgniShomIyAtmaka tattva " . This > principle is more beautifully explained in the next name " ramaNa > lampaTA " . > > Shri Vaidyanatha Dikshitar deviates from Shri Bhaskara while > explaining the name " ramaNa lampaTA " which has appealed my intellect. > > The beauty of LS is that all the 1000 names are interlinked with each > other like garland of flowers. Every name is a complete essence in > itself and the meaning is carried forward by the succeeding names so > that the bhava is not disturbed. > > Hope you got my point. So, try to understand the Rishi Hridaya > (which are vAk devatas here) and try to refer the Saubhagya Bhaskara > wherever you have any doubt at any name. Ponder over the name and TRY > TO MEDITATE ON THAT NAME. Mother will open up the avenues. > > With regards, > sriram > > , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy > <krishvishy@> wrote: > > > > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > > and > > mA = ambA = shakti > > > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > > > regards > > Vishwam > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 shrI gurubhyo namaH shrI mahAgaNpataye namaH Dear Shri Shriram: Namaskaram. I have not much personal knowledge of this, but I have read some modern authors here, and I will quote some of their references, so that everyone can study them and draw their own conclusions. A word of caution. These references are not from any deep personal experience on my part, but only from book knowledge. According to some, here is one table showing the relationship with various avataras. Only some of them are VishNu avataras. bagalAmukhi - vAmana kamalA - viSNu kAli - kR^iSNa tArA - rAmA bhairavi - rudra chhinnamastA - matsya mAta~ngI - brahma dhUmavati - varAha shoDashi - shiva bhuvaneshvari - formless brahman I am quoting below some of the references. 1. guhyatiguhyatantra - maps each mahAvidya to Vishnu avataras... unlike above table. 2. todala-tantra - equates the mahavidyas to Vishnu avataras... again unlike above table. There are other such equations available. 1. The mahavidyas as forms of satI. 2. The mahAvidyas as forms of ParvatI. 3. Even Durga takes forms as mahAvidyas. Having said all that, here are some of my thoughts .... We don't have to go very far to find pointers to the truth behind the above. 1. The LS, which to us, is like the final authority, says " karA~Nguli nakhotpanna nArAyaNa dashAkritiH " (rAmA being one of them). Now, one needs to analyze what nArAyaNa is. As you so rightly pointed out, people tend to equate nArAyaNa to Lord vishNu AND ONLY Lord VishNu. But then, what would the following mean to us ? I am sure I dont need to elaborate on these basic lines. " yaccha kinchijjagatsarvam drishyate shrUyate.pivaa. antarbahishcha tatsarvam vyApa nArAyaNa sthitaH " ... In the light of these vedic lines, then, nArAyaNa is not just vishNu avatAra, but everything in and around us. 2. The guruvAyUpuresha ( guruvAyUrappan ) aSTottaram says that Lord Krishna is gopAlasundarI rUpaH. It also says that Lord Krishna is shrI chakra swarUpa vigraham. So, this to me, points to the indication that shrI KrishNa is indeed shakti swarUpam. 3. Also, see LS " shriSThikartri " , " goptrI " , " samhAriNI " , " tirodhAnakarI " , " sadAshivAnugrahadA " . 4. The bhAvanopanishad says " mana ikShU dhanuH " ... aha! so how can He (Lord rAmA) be different from dhanurbANadharA ? Again, a subtle pointer to Lord rAmA being shakti swarUpam. This is, in fact, verbally validated by my Guruji. In conclusion. There is evidence in our texts that our beloved " Mother " takes physical form when the need arises. There is sufficient evidence to show that each physical form taken in this world, can be mapped back to AmbaL in one way or another, but that, to me is an esoteric, academic exercis that might lead us to reach for the stars, but miss the moon. I prefer to do my sAdhanA without trying to reach for broad and wide scholarliness. I believe that bhakti will lead me to the knowledge that I need for my mokSham. I want to equate shrI thyAgrAja's (the greatest rAmA bhakta after HanumAn) words to my approach to this. endendu joochinanendendu palikina-nendendu sEvinchinanendendu poojinchina- nandandu neevani tOchuTanduku neepaadaaravindamunu dhyaaninchina-dendukani tyaagaraaja sannuta.. Regards KR shrI mAtre namaH - sriram Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:51 AM Re: rAmA Respected Kumar, Namaste. There is a tendency to correlate Dasa Mahavidyas with Dasa Avataras which is quite questionable and could be an intellectual feat. Infact, Narayana has 24 avataras so how do they correlate with these. In Srividya Krama Diksha, these dasa avataras become the Anga Vidyas of Tripurasundari. So, when we refer the personality " Rama " , is it really the Son of Dasaratha or not is a debatable issue. Because the word " Rama " is not just the Son of Dasaratha but could be the Taraka Mantra which existed even before the " advent of Rama " whose objective is to " take across the ocean of samsara " . The word " Rama " implies " ramante yogino nante brahmAnandE chidAtmani " which means " the one is whom the Yogis enjoy the Bliss of Brahman " . So, when the son of Dasaratha was performing his lilas in Ayodhya, Sage Vashishta hit upon this name " Rama " and christened him with this name. Similarly, is the case with Krishna. It is the outlook of Shaktas to view everything as " sarvam saktimayam jagat " and hence the purana purushas are correlated with Sakti tattva. Neverthelesss, Rama is Maya Manusha Vigraha and Krishna is Lila Manusha Vigraha. Even the tantra says that Rama is Lalitha- swarupa and Krishna is Kali-swarupa. But how far it is acceptable is also again quite debatable. The names are christened in such a way that it signifies their action. Correct me if I am wrong. With regards, Sriram , " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote: > > shrI gurubhyo namaH > shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH > > Friends: > > While on the subject of Lord Rama. > > I want to present a small couplet written by my grand-uncle ( grand father's elder brother ). > > rAmAyA jitamAramAnasa nijArAmA parAmAnutA > rAmArAdhita rAma kAmadapadA mArAmanasyApahA | > > rAmAyA timirAryamA sumasharA mAsAmarAmodadA > sarvAnno vidadhAtu vA~nchhitaphalan shrIrAjarAjeshvarI || > - lalitA dasaH. > > The name of Lord Rama appears nine times in this couple, representing the navarasas in the revered text of rAmAyaNam. > > However, it is still a prayer to shrI rAjarAjeshvarI > > regards. > KR. > > shrI mAtre namaH > > - > sriram > > Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:58 AM > Re: rAmA > > > Dear vishwam, > > Any mantra shastra for that matter and especially shakta tantras > should conform to the sastra maryAda which has to come from the guru > parampara. Again it should conform to the bhAShyakArA and Rishi > (seer) hridaya. Without understanding the rishi hridaya, mantra > sastras, sahasranama parayanas are not encouraged. > > Once a scholar was giving lecture on Saundaryalahari at Sringeri > before Shri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal. The scholar in the middle > of the lecture while expounding the Lakshmidhara Bhashya, bypassed a > little bit and added his own colours to the Saundaryalahari Bhashya. > Immediately, Swamigal reprimanded that scholar saying that " one > should not cross the limits of Shastra MaryAda as far as Bhashyas and > Sutras are concerned " . > > Now, the word " tantra " means " tanyAtE vistAryatE jnAnam iti > tantrah " . So, taking a sutra or a principle, the knowledge got > spread and manifested itself around a single cardinal principle or a > sutra. This is called Tantra. Now, the concepts of Tantra, Mantra > and Yantra are inter-linked with each other. The tantra prescribes > the upasana vidhi of the mantra anushtana. This upasana includes > MantrArtha Chintana or the constant meditation and contemplation on > the essence of the Mantra. This is " Shastra Maryada " . > > So, " wrong understanding of the mantra and improper understanding of > the Rishi Hridaya " is aberration of Shastra Maryada which leads to > Yogini PratyavAya. > > AND HENCE TO KNOW THE TANTRA SHASTRA ONE SHOULD APPROACH A UTTAMA > GURU WHO IS FROM SAT-SAMPRADAYA. > > Now coming to the point: The word " rAmA " means: > > As per Sowbhagya Bhasakara: > > There are several interpretations by Bhaskara who says that all the > males collectively taken can be called as " Vishnu " swarupa and the > females collectively taken as " Lakshmi " Swarupa. And hence the > Vyasti or Collective Principle of all the Women is rAmA. Or the Most > Auspicious Lady is also called rAmA. However, the interpretation > given below has appealed my intellect (which is also by Bhaskara). > > " ramantE asyAm yogina iti rAmA " ie, in whom yogis enjoy the Supreme > Bliss is rAmA. Or " the bestower of Supreme Bliss " is rAmA. > > As per Kalyana Srikala: > > One whose nature is of Supreme Bliss is rAmA > > As per the ChandrikAkhya: " sarvEshAm prANinAm mangaLa sAdhana hEtu > bhUtA iti rAmA. The form of all auspiciousness. > > There is one more rahasyArtha which has to be learnt from one's > gurunatha. The sastra says that " agniShomIyAtmakam idam jagat " ie., > the entire universe is nothing but the combination of Agni and Soma. > Agni is Bhokta or Saktiman and Soma is Bhojya or Sakti or Poshana > Kartri. So, " rAmA " denotes the " AgniShomIyAtmaka tattva " . This > principle is more beautifully explained in the next name " ramaNa > lampaTA " . > > Shri Vaidyanatha Dikshitar deviates from Shri Bhaskara while > explaining the name " ramaNa lampaTA " which has appealed my intellect. > > The beauty of LS is that all the 1000 names are interlinked with each > other like garland of flowers. Every name is a complete essence in > itself and the meaning is carried forward by the succeeding names so > that the bhava is not disturbed. > > Hope you got my point. So, try to understand the Rishi Hridaya > (which are vAk devatas here) and try to refer the Saubhagya Bhaskara > wherever you have any doubt at any name. Ponder over the name and TRY > TO MEDITATE ON THAT NAME. Mother will open up the avenues. > > With regards, > sriram > > , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy > <krishvishy@> wrote: > > > > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > > and > > mA = ambA = shakti > > > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > > > regards > > Vishwam > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 Dear kumar, I am delighted to see your good reply. Here is some more information which i would like to share with you on dasa mahavidyas. As per rudrayamala tantra, the seat of meditation of Dasa-Mahavidyas are: Muladhara : Tripura Bhairavi Svadhishtana : No meditation Manipura : Tara Nabhi chakra : Dhumavati Anahata : Kamalatmika, Kali and Bhuvaneshwari Vishuddhi : Matangi Lambika : Bagalamukhi Ajna : Chinnamasta Sahasrara : Shodasi For samayacharis and followers of Daksha Marga, the lower two chakras are omitted. Now why it should be omitted, there is ample evidence shown by Acharya Sankara and Gaudapada. What I learnt from my elders is that contemplation on Svadhistana Chakra (if proper care is not taken) leads to shighra virya skhalana ie., the upasaka cannot control the secretion of semen which may lead to upsurge of base instincts and may prove dangerous!!! With regards, sriram , " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote: > > shrI gurubhyo namaH > shrI mahAgaNpataye namaH > > Dear Shri Shriram: > Namaskaram. > > I have not much personal knowledge of this, but I have read some modern authors here, and I will quote some of their references, so that everyone can study them and draw their own conclusions. A word of caution. These references are not from any deep personal experience on my part, but only from book knowledge. > > According to some, here is one table showing the relationship with various avataras. Only some of them are VishNu avataras. > > bagalAmukhi - vAmana > kamalA - viSNu > kAli - kR^iSNa > tArA - rAmA > bhairavi - rudra > chhinnamastA - matsya > mAta~ngI - brahma > dhUmavati - varAha > shoDashi - shiva > bhuvaneshvari - formless brahman > > I am quoting below some of the references. > > 1. guhyatiguhyatantra - maps each mahAvidya to Vishnu avataras... unlike above table. > 2. todala-tantra - equates the mahavidyas to Vishnu avataras... again unlike above table. > > There are other such equations available. > > 1. The mahavidyas as forms of satI. > 2. The mahAvidyas as forms of ParvatI. > 3. Even Durga takes forms as mahAvidyas. > > > Having said all that, here are some of my thoughts .... > > We don't have to go very far to find pointers to the truth behind the above. > > 1. The LS, which to us, is like the final authority, says " karA~Nguli nakhotpanna nArAyaNa dashAkritiH " (rAmA being one of them). Now, one needs to analyze what nArAyaNa is. As you so rightly pointed out, people tend to equate nArAyaNa to Lord vishNu AND ONLY Lord VishNu. But then, what would the following mean to us ? I am sure I dont need to elaborate on these basic lines. > " yaccha kinchijjagatsarvam drishyate shrUyate.pivaa. antarbahishcha tatsarvam vyApa nArAyaNa sthitaH " ... > In the light of these vedic lines, then, nArAyaNa is not just vishNu avatAra, but everything in and around us. > > 2. The guruvAyUpuresha ( guruvAyUrappan ) aSTottaram says that Lord Krishna is gopAlasundarI rUpaH. It also says that Lord Krishna is shrI chakra swarUpa vigraham. So, this to me, points to the indication that shrI KrishNa is indeed shakti swarUpam. > > 3. Also, see LS " shriSThikartri " , " goptrI " , " samhAriNI " , " tirodhAnakarI " , " sadAshiv AnugrahadA " . > > 4. The bhAvanopanishad says " mana ikShU dhanuH " ... aha! so how can He (Lord rAmA) be different from dhanurbANadharA ? Again, a subtle pointer to Lord rAmA being shakti swarUpam. This is, in fact, verbally validated by my Guruji. > > In conclusion. > > There is evidence in our texts that our beloved " Mother " takes physical form when the need arises. There is sufficient evidence to show that each physical form taken in this world, can be mapped back to AmbaL in one way or another, but that, to me is an esoteric, academic exercis that might lead us to reach for the stars, but miss the moon. I prefer to do my sAdhanA without trying to reach for broad and wide scholarliness. > > I believe that bhakti will lead me to the knowledge that I need for my mokSham. > > I want to equate shrI thyAgrAja's (the greatest rAmA bhakta after HanumAn) words to my approach to this. > > endendu joochinanendendu palikina-nendendu sEvinchinanendendu poojinchina- > nandandu neevani tOchuTanduku neepaadaaravindamunu dhyaaninchina- dendukani tyaagaraaja sannuta.. > > Regards > KR > shrI mAtre namaH > - > sriram > > Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:51 AM > Re: rAmA > > > Respected Kumar, > > Namaste. > > There is a tendency to correlate Dasa Mahavidyas with Dasa Avataras > which is quite questionable and could be an intellectual feat. > Infact, Narayana has 24 avataras so how do they correlate with > these. In Srividya Krama Diksha, these dasa avataras become the Anga > Vidyas of Tripurasundari. > > So, when we refer the personality " Rama " , is it really the Son of > Dasaratha or not is a debatable issue. Because the word " Rama " is > not just the Son of Dasaratha but could be the Taraka Mantra which > existed even before the " advent of Rama " whose objective is to " take > across the ocean of samsara " . The word " Rama " implies " ramante > yogino nante brahmAnandE chidAtmani " which means " the one is whom the > Yogis enjoy the Bliss of Brahman " . So, when the son of Dasaratha was > performing his lilas in Ayodhya, Sage Vashishta hit upon this > name " Rama " and christened him with this name. > > Similarly, is the case with Krishna. > > It is the outlook of Shaktas to view everything as " sarvam saktimayam > jagat " and hence the purana purushas are correlated with Sakti > tattva. Neverthelesss, Rama is Maya Manusha Vigraha and Krishna is > Lila Manusha Vigraha. Even the tantra says that Rama is Lalitha- > swarupa and Krishna is Kali-swarupa. But how far it is acceptable is > also again quite debatable. > > The names are christened in such a way that it signifies their > action. > > Correct me if I am wrong. > > With regards, > Sriram > > , " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach@> > wrote: > > > > shrI gurubhyo namaH > > shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH > > > > Friends: > > > > While on the subject of Lord Rama. > > > > I want to present a small couplet written by my grand-uncle ( grand > father's elder brother ). > > > > rAmAyA jitamAramAnasa nijArAmA parAmAnutA > > rAmArAdhita rAma kAmadapadA mArAmanasyApahA | > > > > rAmAyA timirAryamA sumasharA mAsAmarAmodadA > > sarvAnno vidadhAtu vA~nchhitaphalan shrIrAjarAjeshvarI || > > - lalitA dasaH. > > > > The name of Lord Rama appears nine times in this couple, > representing the navarasas in the revered text of rAmAyaNam. > > > > However, it is still a prayer to shrI rAjarAjeshvarI > > > > regards. > > KR. > > > > shrI mAtre namaH > > > > - > > sriram > > > > Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:58 AM > > Re: rAmA > > > > > > Dear vishwam, > > > > Any mantra shastra for that matter and especially shakta tantras > > should conform to the sastra maryAda which has to come from the > guru > > parampara. Again it should conform to the bhAShyakArA and Rishi > > (seer) hridaya. Without understanding the rishi hridaya, mantra > > sastras, sahasranama parayanas are not encouraged. > > > > Once a scholar was giving lecture on Saundaryalahari at Sringeri > > before Shri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal. The scholar in the > middle > > of the lecture while expounding the Lakshmidhara Bhashya, > bypassed a > > little bit and added his own colours to the Saundaryalahari > Bhashya. > > Immediately, Swamigal reprimanded that scholar saying that " one > > should not cross the limits of Shastra MaryAda as far as Bhashyas > and > > Sutras are concerned " . > > > > Now, the word " tantra " means " tanyAtE vistAryatE jnAnam iti > > tantrah " . So, taking a sutra or a principle, the knowledge got > > spread and manifested itself around a single cardinal principle > or a > > sutra. This is called Tantra. Now, the concepts of Tantra, Mantra > > and Yantra are inter-linked with each other. The tantra > prescribes > > the upasana vidhi of the mantra anushtana. This upasana includes > > MantrArtha Chintana or the constant meditation and contemplation > on > > the essence of the Mantra. This is " Shastra Maryada " . > > > > So, " wrong understanding of the mantra and improper understanding > of > > the Rishi Hridaya " is aberration of Shastra Maryada which leads > to > > Yogini PratyavAya. > > > > AND HENCE TO KNOW THE TANTRA SHASTRA ONE SHOULD APPROACH A UTTAMA > > GURU WHO IS FROM SAT-SAMPRADAYA. > > > > Now coming to the point: The word " rAmA " means: > > > > As per Sowbhagya Bhasakara: > > > > There are several interpretations by Bhaskara who says that all > the > > males collectively taken can be called as " Vishnu " swarupa and > the > > females collectively taken as " Lakshmi " Swarupa. And hence the > > Vyasti or Collective Principle of all the Women is rAmA. Or the > Most > > Auspicious Lady is also called rAmA. However, the interpretation > > given below has appealed my intellect (which is also by Bhaskara). > > > > " ramantE asyAm yogina iti rAmA " ie, in whom yogis enjoy the > Supreme > > Bliss is rAmA. Or " the bestower of Supreme Bliss " is rAmA. > > > > As per Kalyana Srikala: > > > > One whose nature is of Supreme Bliss is rAmA > > > > As per the ChandrikAkhya: " sarvEshAm prANinAm mangaLa sAdhana > hEtu > > bhUtA iti rAmA. The form of all auspiciousness. > > > > There is one more rahasyArtha which has to be learnt from one's > > gurunatha. The sastra says that " agniShomIyAtmakam idam jagat " > ie., > > the entire universe is nothing but the combination of Agni and > Soma. > > Agni is Bhokta or Saktiman and Soma is Bhojya or Sakti or Poshana > > Kartri. So, " rAmA " denotes the " AgniShomIyAtmaka tattva " . This > > principle is more beautifully explained in the next name " ramaNa > > lampaTA " . > > > > Shri Vaidyanatha Dikshitar deviates from Shri Bhaskara while > > explaining the name " ramaNa lampaTA " which has appealed my > intellect. > > > > The beauty of LS is that all the 1000 names are interlinked with > each > > other like garland of flowers. Every name is a complete essence > in > > itself and the meaning is carried forward by the succeeding names > so > > that the bhava is not disturbed. > > > > Hope you got my point. So, try to understand the Rishi Hridaya > > (which are vAk devatas here) and try to refer the Saubhagya > Bhaskara > > wherever you have any doubt at any name. Ponder over the name and > TRY > > TO MEDITATE ON THAT NAME. Mother will open up the avenues. > > > > With regards, > > sriram > > > > , vishwanthan Krishnamoorthy > > <krishvishy@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just got to thinking about this today, if > > > rA = agni = rudra = shiva > > > and > > > mA = ambA = shakti > > > > > > then rAmA should personify shivashaktyaikyarUpam? > > > > > > regards > > > Vishwam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 shrI gurubhyo namaH shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH dear sriram: As I had hinted before, the dasha mahAvidyas are not part of the main teachings of our paramparA, and therefore we do not pay much attention to those concepts. I agree that much of Shri Vidya is driven by concepts and the practical implementation of these concepts in the tantric way has various effects on our mind, body and being. The type of effects that you have enumerated are possible, indeed. As shrI vidyopAsakas, we have been instructed not to be side tracked by these effects, but to focus on the swarUpas as illustrated in the dhyAna shlokas of the mantras as we chant. That is the best way to avoid imbalanced effects of this type of meditation. regards. KR. shrI mAtre namaH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Sri gurubhyo namah Dear Sriram I am little bit confused. Muladhara is Ganapathi stana with gaja sakti/sakini svadhistana is Brahma sthana with saraswati sakti /Kakini sakti So in samayachara is it allowed to overlook these two important stages ? Regarding Virya skhalana Swadhistana is all important for obtaining kama kal mastery in fine arts and as its virya for men for women this chakra works for the the mensus to happen periodically every 27 days (nakshatra sankhya) with regards N.diwakar > Svadhishtana : No meditation > Manipura : Tara > Nabhi chakra : Dhumavati > Anahata : Kamalatmika, Kali and Bhuvaneshwari > Vishuddhi : Matangi > Lambika : Bagalamukhi > Ajna : Chinnamasta > Sahasrara : Shodasi > > For samayacharis and followers of Daksha Marga, the lower two chakras > are omitted. Now why it should be omitted, there is ample evidence > shown by Acharya Sankara and Gaudapada. > > What I learnt from my elders is that contemplation on Svadhistana > Chakra (if proper care is not taken) leads to shighra virya skhalana > ie., the upasaka cannot control the secretion of semen which may lead > to upsurge of base instincts and may prove dangerous!!! > > With regards, > sriram > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Dear dinakar, Muladhara padma has 4 petals; svadhishtana has 6 petals; Manipura has 12 petals; anahata has 12 petals; vishuddhi has 16 petals and ajna has 2 petals. So, the total number of petals of all the 6 chakras are 50 which corresponds to the 50 matrikas sthanas. Now, the source of these 50 matrikas is the 1000-petalled lotus which is the Baindavasthana. Since, the Manipura has 10 petals which is the combination of 4 petals of Muladhara and 6 petals of Svadhistana, the lower chakras can be omitted. Now coming to the Srividya Diksha and Shatchakra Bhedana, I have already mentioned in my earlier posts about different types of dikshas starting from Kriya diksha, varna diksha to Vedha Diksha. Vedha means penetration. During this process of penetration, the guru imparts the " shaktipata " or " activation " which is called " Maha Vedha " . The guru is subtle form penetrates into the upasaka's body during the cusp of Mahashtami and Mahanavami during the Asviyuja Month and awakens the sleeping kundalini at Muladhara and places at Manipura. Now, it is the job of the disciple to perform the internal worship of upacharas at Muladhara, Anahata and Sahasrara. The intensity of chakrabhedana is directly proportional to the upasaka's purva vasanas. At Manipura, the Prana and Apana merge and there is the blooming of Udana. During the Sushumna vikasa at the time of ascent of kundalini, these purva vasanas or tendencies that are the seats of Muladhara and Svadhistana obstruct the Upasaka's path. And hence these two chakras are omitted. Even if the Maha Vedha is not performed, the upasaka need not bother about chakra bhedana. With Kumbhaka, the agni adhana prakriya is performed at Svadhistana. This agni adhana dries up the moisture at Manipura. The sleeping kundalini obtains its tripti from the moisture of Manipura. Now, when this moisture is dried up, the thirsty kundalini at Muladhara awakens at gets manifested Manipura to taste the nectar. Even though the Vedha is not performed at Muladhara and Svadhistana, when the purna vedha at Anahata and Ajna is performed, automatically the vedha at Muladhara and Svadhistana is achieved. But yes, extreme care should be taken as there is excess secretion of semen at Svadhistana. Immediately, the upasaka should perform " NadAnudhAna " at Anahata. Performance of Nada Anusandhana should be followed by contemplation of " Dahara Vidya " at Anahata and " Sambhavi Vidya " at Ajna chakra. Immediately the " Shambhavi Mudra " should be performed and with this Mudra, the " excess semen " generated should be taken up to sahasrara by converting it to Amrita. This is the " Urdhwa Retas Siddhi " . This is the " Khechari Vidya " of Maha Yogis. The adigurus like Shiva and Dattatreya are adept in this form of Yoga. And hence Vedas declare as " UrdhwarEtam virUpAkSham vishwarUpAyavai namo namah " . Mahamaheshwara Ahinava Gupta explains this process of Maha Vedha quite differently in Tantra Loka. He prescribes the Maha Vedha at Anahata Chakra with Mantra Nada. There is also another process through which Mula Bandha and Odyanabandha and Kumbhaka, the sleeping kundalini is aroused. The sleeping kundalini out of hunger, devours all the saptha dhatus (7 dhatus) and at the end vomits the Venom of Nectar. The natha sampradaya yogis call this venom as nectar. This is the Yoga Prakriya of Natha Sampradaya. This prakriya has been wonderfully explained by Jnaneshwar in his two works " Jnaneshwari " and " Amritanubhava " . Now, hakini, lakini etc. are the presiding deities of corresponding dhatus. Ganapati and others are the presiding deities of corresponding chakras. They just pave the way for Shat Chakra Bhedana. As per the first hand experience of Shri Himakuntala Atmaramaiah (the grandfather of my colleague) who was a great siddha purusha at Kadapa, during the process of shatchakra bhedana, when the kundalini ascent starts these presiding deities pave the way and clear the path of sushumna. Shri Atmaramaiah's vision and experience is that all the corresponding yoginis used to prostrate before him when the Kundalini pierced the corresponding chakras. He used to worship " Hamseshwara and Hamseshwari " and Anahata and with Hamsa mantra contemplates this divine pair as the Guru Padukas at Chit Chandra Mandala of Sahasrara. But my gurunatha's experience is quite different as regards the kundalini prabodhana. And similarly with Tadepalli Raghavanarayana Sastry also. When " actual manifestation " of Mother occurs in the corresponding chakras, the Shatchakra Bhedana is achieved. So, I was talking of " Manifestation " and " its worship " at the corresponding Chakras. Now, whatever upasanas we are doing it is just a mechanical process and purna diksha is also a mechanical process of mere repetition of words. Unless, this Maha Samrajya Vedha is performed, all the upasanas are mere mechanical process. With regards, sriram , " Diwakar N.V.L.G " <diwakarvlg wrote: > > Sri gurubhyo namah > Dear Sriram > I am little bit confused. > Muladhara is Ganapathi stana with gaja sakti/sakini > svadhistana is Brahma sthana with saraswati sakti /Kakini sakti > > So in samayachara is it allowed to overlook these two important > stages ? > > Regarding Virya skhalana > Swadhistana is all important for obtaining kama kal mastery in fine > arts and as its virya for men for women this chakra works for the > the mensus to happen periodically every 27 days (nakshatra sankhya) > > with regards > N.diwakar > > > Svadhishtana : No meditation > > Manipura : Tara > > Nabhi chakra : Dhumavati > > Anahata : Kamalatmika, Kali and Bhuvaneshwari > > Vishuddhi : Matangi > > Lambika : Bagalamukhi > > Ajna : Chinnamasta > > Sahasrara : Shodasi > > > > For samayacharis and followers of Daksha Marga, the lower two > chakras > > are omitted. Now why it should be omitted, there is ample evidence > > shown by Acharya Sankara and Gaudapada. > > > > What I learnt from my elders is that contemplation on Svadhistana > > Chakra (if proper care is not taken) leads to shighra virya > skhalana > > ie., the upasaka cannot control the secretion of semen which may > lead > > to upsurge of base instincts and may prove dangerous!!! > > > > With regards, > > sriram > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.