Guest guest Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dear ravi, Namaste. It seems there is a security problem with my system because I have posted this article twice but could not be seen in the forum. So, I am posting this again.  What you have said may be an exception (which is also questionable as the satguru never trespasses and violates his guru parampara) which I have never heard among the sadacharis belonging to the sat-sampradaya in srividya. Shodasi is never prescribed by bypassing of bala which is like studying Post Graduation without Graduation degree. Such certificate is of no use.  This reminds me the words of Brahmasri Tadepalli Raghavana Narayana Sastry in one of his works on Srividya which gives the esoteric significance on Lalithopakhyana, Bala is paroksha-brahmavidya swarupini which represents sravana; Panchadasi is Aparoksha-Brahmavidya swarupini which represents manana; Shodasi is Nidhidhyasana; The Lalithopakhyana is the episode that gives out the esoteric sense of Srividya anga devatas, Srividya bahya varivasya and Srividya Antarvarivasya. Bala is result of Bahaya Varivasya Siddhi and Lalitha is the result of Antar varivasya siddhi. The episode goes like this:  When Bhandasura was creating havoc in three worlds, Sage Narada approaches Vishnu and seeks his refuge. Pleased thus, the Vishnu gives a Mantra Kalpa Grantha and directs Narada to preside over the Bahiryaga Krama at Himavat Parvata with utmost care as per the varivasya given in Kalpa. Also instructs the devatas to maintain " extreme care " during the performance of vedic rituals and karma kanda at the Bahiryaga Krama. Saying this, Vishnu creates two damsels to infatuate the ministers of Bhandasura. Thus, presided by Narada and supervised by Vishnu, the devatas perform the Bahiryaga and get immense power, strength, stamina, valour. When the devatas performed the yajna, pleased with them, resulted in the emergence of Bala Tripurasundari with Book, Rosary, Varada and Abhaya Mudras who is none other than Paroksha Brahmavidya. The book denotes the Vaidika Karmanushtana and Rosary denotes the Mantra Anushtana. The Bala addressing the conference of Devatas says that she is Vishnu Yaga Siddhi Rupini and cannot annihilate the Bhadasura completely but can enslave only. Saying thus, instructs the Devatas in conference to perform the Kalpokta-Antaryaga as per the Grantha which I have and hands over the book and rosary that was in Her hands. Saying so disappears in  Chidakasa and contemplates on Antaryami Purusha. The Antaryami Parameshwara appears before Her (Bala). Bala pleads the Antaryami Purusha to preside over the Antaryaga Upasana by placing Chidagni Kunda. Thus, the Antaryami Purusha rupa Ishwara takes upon himself the responsibility of Antaryaga Krama Diksha. In this Antaryaga karma, the Mind acted as Ajya, Chitta vritti as Havish and Jnana as Agni. Thus culminated the Antaryaga Upasana Paddhati as per the Mantra Kalpa presented by Bala. Pleased with this Antaryaga Paddhati, Lalitha manifests from the Chidagni Kunda. As per the loka dharma and vyavahara, the women should not remain as unmarried and hence devatas plead Her to get married. Lalitha contemplates on " HER SELF " . As a result, manifested the " Kameshwara " . Since, he manifested instantaneously he is called " Sadyojata " . Thus, the Lalitha marries the Kameshwara and the Divine Couple is known as " Kameshwara-Kameshwari " .  So, the moral of this episode as well as the Srividya Guru Sampradaya says that Bahirjayaga / Bahya Varivasya Siddhi as per the Vedoktha Vidhi is conferred by Bala which represents the Karma Anushtana and Antaryaga / Srividya Antarvarivasya Siddhi which represents the Jnana is conferred by Lalitha (Panchadasi / Shodasi).  Bala and Panchadasi – Both are complementary to each other and both should not be separated as Bala is Daughter and Lalitha is Mother.  IT IS NOT SAT-SAMPRADAYA AND NO GURU WHO HAILS FROM SAT-SAMPRADAYA VIOLATES OR TRESPASSES HIS GURU PARAMPARA. IF HE FINDS THE DISCIPLE WORTHY, BASED ON WHAT " PARAMETERS " AND " FACTORS " HE FINDS WORTHY OF IMPARTING THE SHODASI?  EVEN IF HE IS FOUND WORTHY, DOES HE REALLY NEED " SHODASI " PER SE, IN TANTRA VIDYA?  By the way, I received a personal mail whether Shri Bhaskara quoted anywhere about the adhikara nirnaya of the parayana of Lalitha Sahasranama without Panchadasi Mantra.  My answer is Yes. Shri Bhaskara says in Purva-pithika that " mantra rAhityE nAmakIrtanE(a)adhikArAbhAvEnAdhikAri niShTasya………… " which says that without the Mula Mantra Upadesa the Parayana of LS is useless. Here he stresses on " Mantra rAjam srIvidyAm…… " which means the PANCHADASI VIDYA AND NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH BALA. Mantra rajam srividyam is Panchadasi only.  With regards, Sriram  Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Respected Sriram 1) Not just your message, at least a dozen messages get marked as SPAM every week by . Some of the reasons for this are: copying all the previous messages, having special characters, etc. In your case, you message had some control characters. Please use a text editor to edit your messages. 2) baalaa can be an end in itself - rather than a prerequisite for something. Ultimately for an advaitin, mantra japa is a karma and at the best give only chitta shuddhi (and communion with that devata as stated by patanjali). In that sense, bala, shhoDhashi, or panchaaxari done with shraddha is just enough. For a dvija, again the first priority is gaayatri. What really confuses me why this endless variation of shhoDhasi, adding more and more syllables to it. Even the shhoDhashi as it is initiated mixes baala in it and make it more than 16. In my previous post, all I intended to say was a guru can override prerequisites if he chooses to. I did not say that is the norm. But I have seen this done. Just because he did it, does not make him a lesser guru. Lot of people get a honorary PhD without even a high school diploma. Not that they do not deserve. They have spent so much time in their sphere of activity - that work qualifies them for it (of course, do not consider the politicians getting this honorary degree). This has happened to some scientists also. With best regards, Ravi , venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: <I deleted all the previous message, at it had some special unprintable control characters> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 , " MSR " <miinalochanii wrote: > What really confuses me why this endless > variation of shhoDhasi, adding more and more syllables to it. Even the > shhoDhashi as it is initiated mixes baala in it and make it more >than 16. In most old shrIkula paramparas the ShoDhashi actually meant only a 16 syllabled mantra derived from the underlying pa~nchadashi and nothing more. I am told a guru may teach some kind of saMpuTikaraNas with tripurashekhara or tripurabhairavi for it is considered best for a student especially those not of the atimArga to to derive various artha-s. If we look at the older shrIkula shAstra-s we realize that these " ati-ShoDhashis " with many new syllables are recent innovation - - especially some modern paramparas where the ShoDhashi dIkSha is granted relatively easily need more steps in the ladder above it. To my understanding paramaparas closely linked to the old shAstras the majority of dIkShitas are only doing tripurashekhara or tripurabhairavi and few get pa~nchadashAkShari and only the minority who are considered fully accomplished in shAstras and yoga are given ShoDhashi with 16 syllables. I can frankly state that most common people do not have the wherewithal to understand or deal with ShoDhashi and giving them that mantra might have negative effects. BTW since someone asked tripurashekhara is bAlA -- this term is more common in lineages originally coming from Kashmir. RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dear rajitha, <<..To my understanding paramaparas closely linked to the old shAstras the majority of dIkShitas are only doing tripurashekhara or tripurabhairavi and few get pa~nchadashAkShari and only the minority who are considered fully accomplished in shAstras and yoga are given ShoDhashi with 16 syllables. I can frankly state that most common people do not have the wherewithal to understand or deal with ShoDhashi and giving them that mantra might have negative effects...> Well said. But Jnanarnava Tantra (vide 27 & 28 sloka) gives out 28 lettered Shodasi Mantra and this tantra is supposed to be the oldest and most pramanika tantra grandha which also details out Meru Mantra Vidhana, Tripura Bala, Tripura Bhairavi and Tripura Lalitha. So, 28-lettered Shodasi which is the prefix & suffix of some bijas alongwith Panchadasi may not be of recent origin as it was given out in Jn.Tan. Waiting for your comments... regs, sriram , " rajita_rajvasishth " <rajita_rajvasishth wrote: > > , " MSR " <miinalochanii@> wrote: > > What really confuses me why this endless > > variation of shhoDhasi, adding more and more syllables to it. Even > the > > shhoDhashi as it is initiated mixes baala in it and make it more > >than 16. > > In most old shrIkula paramparas the ShoDhashi actually meant only a 16 > syllabled mantra derived from the underlying pa~nchadashi and nothing > more. I am told a guru may teach some kind of saMpuTikaraNas with > tripurashekhara or tripurabhairavi for it is considered best for a > student especially those not of the atimArga to to derive various > artha-s. If we look at the older shrIkula shAstra-s we realize that > these " ati-ShoDhashis " with many new syllables are recent innovation - > - especially some modern paramparas where the ShoDhashi dIkSha is > granted relatively easily need more steps in the ladder above it. > > To my understanding paramaparas closely linked to the old shAstras the > majority of dIkShitas are only doing tripurashekhara or > tripurabhairavi and few get pa~nchadashAkShari and only the minority > who are considered fully accomplished in shAstras and yoga are given > ShoDhashi with 16 syllables. I can frankly state that most common > people do not have the wherewithal to understand or deal with > ShoDhashi and giving them that mantra might have negative effects. > > BTW since someone asked tripurashekhara is bAlA -- this term is more > common in lineages originally coming from Kashmir. > RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > But Jnanarnava Tantra (vide 27 & 28 sloka) gives out 28 lettered > Shodasi Mantra and this tantra is supposed to be the oldest and most > pramanika tantra grandha which also details out Meru Mantra Vidhana, > Tripura Bala, Tripura Bhairavi and Tripura Lalitha. > > So, 28-lettered Shodasi which is the prefix & suffix of some bijas > alongwith Panchadasi may not be of recent origin as it was given out > in Jn.Tan. > > Waiting for your comments... Shriram- I am sorry if I have said something in ignorance. I am providing below my understanding of the above matter. Firstly I should mention that I am not saying that tantras do not give a ShoDashi-like mantra with higher syllable counter. I was only saying that the " ladder of escalation " of higher and higher ShoDashis is a later phenomenon. Like you I also accept the j~nAnArNava tantraM as a valid shAstra praMaNa, though I cannot claim to be completely knowledgeable in it. It may not be older than nityAShoDashikArNava or tantrarAja but it is an important pramaNa. I believe you are talking about chapter 13 titled: " ShoDashIvidyAvivaraNaM " If I get it correct the relevant verses are: AdyabIjadvayaM bhadre viparItakrameNa hi | vilikhya parameshAni tato.anyAni samuddharet || antarmukhA varArohe kumArI tripureshvarI | ebhistu pa~nchasaMkhyAkair bIjaiH saMpuTitA yajet || ShaTkUTA parameshAni vidyeyaM ShoDashAkSarI | trikUTA sakalA bhadre ShoDashArNA bhavanti hi || vaiShNavy ekonaviMshArNA shaivI saptadashAkSarI | vaktra koTisahasraistu jihvA koTishatairapi || These give derivations of deployed versions of the ShoDashi which have a saMpuTa of 3 additional syllables - vaiShNavI or shaivI with 1 additional syllable. But the core is still the ShoDashArNa. The related tantra the gandharva tantra gives a longer derivative of the ShoDashArNa but calls it the rAjarAjeshvarI vidyA. Let me know if I am reading it wrongly. RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dear rajitha, Exactly. The 27th & 28th sloka of trayodasa patala gives out Shatkuta Shodasi. regs, sriram , " rajita_rajvasishth " <rajita_rajvasishth wrote: > > , " sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi@> > wrote: > > But Jnanarnava Tantra (vide 27 & 28 sloka) gives out 28 lettered > > Shodasi Mantra and this tantra is supposed to be the oldest and most > > pramanika tantra grandha which also details out Meru Mantra Vidhana, > > Tripura Bala, Tripura Bhairavi and Tripura Lalitha. > > > > So, 28-lettered Shodasi which is the prefix & suffix of some bijas > > alongwith Panchadasi may not be of recent origin as it was given out > > in Jn.Tan. > > > > Waiting for your comments... > > Shriram- I am sorry if I have said something in ignorance. I am > providing below my understanding of the above matter. Firstly I should > mention that I am not saying that tantras do not give a ShoDashi-like > mantra with higher syllable counter. I was only saying that the > " ladder of escalation " of higher and higher ShoDashis is a later > phenomenon. > > Like you I also accept the j~nAnArNava tantraM as a valid shAstra > praMaNa, though I cannot claim to be completely knowledgeable in it. > It may not be older than nityAShoDashikArNava or tantrarAja but it is > an important pramaNa. I believe you are talking about chapter 13 > titled: " ShoDashIvidyAvivaraNaM " > If I get it correct the relevant verses are: > AdyabIjadvayaM bhadre viparItakrameNa hi | > vilikhya parameshAni tato.anyAni samuddharet || > antarmukhA varArohe kumArI tripureshvarI | > ebhistu pa~nchasaMkhyAkair bIjaiH saMpuTitA yajet || > ShaTkUTA parameshAni vidyeyaM ShoDashAkSarI | > trikUTA sakalA bhadre ShoDashArNA bhavanti hi || > vaiShNavy ekonaviMshArNA shaivI saptadashAkSarI | > vaktra koTisahasraistu jihvA koTishatairapi || > > These give derivations of deployed versions of the ShoDashi which have > a saMpuTa of 3 additional syllables - vaiShNavI or shaivI with 1 > additional syllable. But the core is still the ShoDashArNa. > > The related tantra the gandharva tantra gives a longer derivative of > the ShoDashArNa but calls it the rAjarAjeshvarI vidyA. > Let me know if I am reading it wrongly. > RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Dear learned members of this forum, Namaste. although i know that this forum is not to discuss personal grieviances, i can't help but to seek some help, advice ad guidance from elders and lear= ned members.Most people would say design your destiny, you have to do karma= etc etc. and finally if nothing works out they say it's your previous karma etc etc. what if a person seriously thinks that GOD is going to help out and expects= a miracle to happen is it foolishness? I have been advised by people to chant Tulasi Kavacham, chant Shiva Sahasra= m, Laxmi Sahasram etc to get marital bliss and end to domestic violence.I h= ave been doing these for the past 8 yrs, but is it worth if a person does n= ot change, and still thinks of leaving a relationship and now i'm questioni= ng my sanity as to why i should think of being in a relationship when the o= ther person does not want it. People look at horoscopes and say separation or divoce is not in my horosco= pe, and that nothing give away this danam that etc and also warn that nothi= ng can give permanent effect and that impossible to change a person's perso= nality. Now i may sound immature, or stupid but is it true that no one can change a= person?what about daivanugraham? is'nt it powerful that grahanugraham? then why am i doing all these in the hope that one day i will happy married= life? Please give me some guidance or advice on this. I wish i could give up everything and live a monk's life, but i have a 5yr = old daughter who depends on me. i can't even runaway.I feel trapped as i do= n't have guts. Although i know about nothing touches soul, god dwells in everyone etc is i= t what i'm finally supposed to get? do i have to just get another birth to = have a normal happy life that i imagine? what about my pain now? what shoul= d i do about it?shuld i just think i'm indifferent, i have no pleasure or p= ain? how can i attain that stage? --- On Wed, 28/1/09, sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: sriram <sriram_sapthasathi Re: Reg. bypassing of Bala Mantra in Srividya Wednesday, 28 January, 2009, 9:52 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Dear Divine, Please note that worship of the Divine latent and potent energy called Shakti and shiva or Devi is enough to bring absolute harmony in one's life, because both these sakthis are inseparable. Bala is anga of Panchadasi and a true upasaka will not cross the barriers of having all the anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka sahita panchadasi or any other mantra for that matter. One should ensure that he or she does not give strength to negative thoughts. Give and forgive is the basic requirement in any married life. Any mantra chanting will be useless unles the Guru who initiated is capable of transmitting the total divine energy of that devata to the devotee or sishya intoto. Mere mantras will not help, as a recorded message repeated over and over does not produce results. Contemplate on the form of the guru as a living master and interact with Him which will ensure that all samskaras are removed and harmony, prosperity, purity, plenty comes down from the Karana sareer of the guru parampara and blesses the disciple. Blessings to all. S.SHANGARANARAYANAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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