Polytheism in Vedas???

April 3, 2009

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The Vedic religion was polytheistic and the different deities were

invoked for different purposes because each Vedic deity has a different function

in the scheme of the universe; while the Agamic religion being monotheistic only

one deity was worshipped, that had all the functions of the universe in his or

her hands.>>>>>

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The 46th rik of the AsyavAmIya sUkta of Rg Veda runs like this:

// Indram Mitram Varunamagnimaahuratho Divyah Sa Suparno Garutmaan

Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti Agnim Yamam Maatarisvaanamaahuh //

As per Sayana, the Truth is one in the form of Aditya and as per Yaska it is

Agni. The same principle of Agni is perceived as Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Su-parna,

Yama and Matarisvaan by Jnanis (vipras).

Scholars are of the view that this mantra speaks of Monotheism rather

than Monism. As per this rik of famous sukta " AsyavAmIya " there is only ONE

VEDIC GOD and the rest are His attributes.

The *Truth is One* but the *wise* address the Ultimate Truth as Indra, Mitra,

Varuna, Suparna, Yama, MatarisvAn etc. Even Yaska and Sayana are also of the

same view.

Though i have certain differences with the theories of Arya Samaj, the Analysis

of Dayananda Saraswati especially the *Concept of One God* in Veda is thought

provoking. Shri Aurobindo is also of the same opinion.

It can be concluded that Vedic era propagated Monotheism and NOT Polytheism.

Unfortunately, vedic concept of Gods is

misinterpreted by scholars. When i had a personal talk with Swami

Tattvavidananda Saraswati, the disciple of Dayananda Saraswati, Arsha Vidya

Gurukulam, His Holiness was also of the same view that *there is only monotheism

and not polytheism in Veda*.

with regards,

sriram

, " Branko Ivatovic " <mahapratibhawan wrote:

AGAMAS

>

> H.H. Shri Kumarswamiji

>

> The Agamas are of three kinds. The Shivagamas, the Shaktyagamas and the

> Vaishnavagamas according as they treat of the deity Shiva, Shakti and

> Vishnu as the object of worship. The Agamas are also called Tantra and

> there is practically no difference between the two names specially

> between the Agamas of the Shiva and Shakti schools, both of them are

> believed to have been delivered by Shiva to his consort-Parvati.

> Generally the Shaivagamas are called Agamas and Shaktyagamas are called

> Tantras. Yet Shaivagamas have an independent status and their origin is

> as old as three thousand years. The Shivagamas are 28 in number. But all

> of them are not available, few of them are available. Besides 28

> principal Shivagamas there are many secondary Agamas which intend to

> explain the subject matter of the principal Agamas.

>

> In connection with the Agamas two important questions arise - the age of

> the Agamas and the contents of the Agamas. As regards the first

> question, the age of the Agamas can well be determined from the

> reference made to them in various works. Harita, a writer of Smriti and

> Kalidas the world famous sanskrit poet refer to the Shivagamas and both

> of them lived in the first century of the Christian era. Various Puranas

> namely Skanda Purana, Sutasamhita, Brahmagita and Shiva Purana mention

> the Agamas. In Kurma Purana a reference is made to the fact that Shri

> Krishna was taught Agamic Philosophy by Upamanyu. In the Shanti Parva

> and Drona Parva of Mahabharata, reference has been made to the

> Shivagamas. In Maitrayana Upanishad Agamic literature is referred to

> twice. The Swetashwetopanishad is certainly an Agamic Upanishad later

> followed by other Agamic Upanishads like Atharva Shiras and Kaivalya.

> From all this foregoing account it can well be concluded that the Agamas

> have their origin in times almost coeval with the Aranyakas.

>

> The Aranyakas which form part and parcel of the Vedas and the Agamas

> confront each other as two independent modes of thought. This fact is

> brought into bold belief, when we take into consideration the contents

> of the Vedic religion and the contents of the Agamic religion.

>

> 1. The Vedic religion consists in the performance of sacrifices with all

> rites and rituals, while the Agamic religion consists in the worship of

> the deity - Shiva, Shakti and Vishnu.

>

> 2. The Vedic deities were the forms of nature and the Vedic religion was

> a system of propitiation of those nature powers. Powers by means of

> sacrifice offered into fire regarded as the mouth of the deities; while

> Agamic deity was personal deity that controlled the forces of nature.

>

> 3. The oblations in the case of Vedic worship were consumed by the

> deities through their mouth, the fire; while the Agamic deities took

> only the subtle portion of the offerings exhibited to them as Prasad or

> consecrated food.

>

> 4. The Vedic religion was polytheistic and the different deities were

> invoked for different purposes because each Vedic deity has a different

> function in the scheme of the universe; while the Agamic religion being

> monotheistic only one deity was worshipped, that had all the functions

> of the universe in his or her hands.

>

> 5. The Vedas consist of the Mantras addressed to the different deities

> and recited during the performance of the sacrifices in honour of those

> deities; while the Agamas contain prayers consisting of various names of

> the deity and salutations addressed to the deity.

>

> 6. The Vedic Worship consisted of the offering made to Gods, while the

> Agamic worship was personal service rendered to the God, like washing,

> decking and feeding them.

>

> 7. The Vedic Gods being the forces of the nature had no physical

> representation, while the Agamic deities were represented by means of a

> visible emblem or image.

>

> 8. There is no trace in the hymns of the temple worship, while the

> worship of the idols in temples is purely Agamic. The Vedic religion is

> the fire cult while Agamic religion is the deitic cult.

>

> 9. The Vedas kept the door of religion restricted to some people while

> the Agamas kept the door of religion open to all without any

> distinction.

>

> 10. The Agamas treat the Yoga Philosophy and Yogic practices which are

> all together absent in the Samhitas or Vedic hymns.

>

> The contents of the Shivagamas are divided into four parts namely

> Charya, Kriya, Yoga and Jnana. The Charya and Kriya parts describe the

> names of worship of Shiva with love and adoration but as the discipline

> of love or Shakti has to be supplemented by some psychological

> discipline in the form of yoga practice, the third part of every Agama

> deals with yoga. The fourth part of the Agama deals with jnana but jnana

> in the sense of exposition of the philosophical principles underlying

> the Agama teaching. The Charyapada represents a Marga, the path of the

> servant following the master. The servantship is the discipline of the

> Charya-pada. It consists in the search of God in the world and has for

> its aim the objective worship of a material idol. The singing of the

> glories of God the extension of the honour and hospitality to the

> servants of God constitute the chief marks of the first part. The

> Kriyapada represents the Satputramarg the path of son serving the will

> of his father. It is the higher step of worshipping God under the mental

> image. In this stage the rites are indicative of purification of the

> mind and heart. The worshipper behaves towards God as a son does towards

> his father with a combination of purity and piety. Yogapada represents

> Sahamarga which indicates the spirit of an associate. Here the

> worshipper behaves towards God as an associate. The whole spirit of the

> worshipper is being affiliated to God through the practice of Yoga or

> meditation. Jnanapada represents Sanmarga which means the attainment of

> Sayujya or atonement with God. In this condition the subject and the

> object become indistinguishable and the worshipper becomes possessed of

> Samadhi or trance. In the Sahamarga the worshipper starts with the idea

> of being similar to God and attains similarity which by the Sanmarga

> expands into Sayujya or atonement.

>

> The main three Agamic Schools, Shiva, Shakti and Vaishnava maintain

> three ultimate realities, namely

>

> 1. A supreme being with male or female aspect predominant.

>

> 2. The group of individual souls.

>

> 3. The objective universe as real.

>

> These three realities are given different names in the three different

> schools.

>

> All the three schools agree in opposing and demolishing the Mayawada or

> the illusion theory of the Vedanta. Thus says Pauskaragama: " If the

> world is an illusion of the conscious being the effected world will be a

> hollow reality. How can the world which is established to be really

> existing by all methods of proofs be a false transaction of

> consciousness? "

>

> The Agamas do not regard the world as a false show. The universe is real

> because, as there is absolutely no difference between Brahma and the

> universe, just as there is no difference between a pot and clay of which

> it is made, the reality of the universe necessarily follows from the

> reality of Brahma. Intense devotion or sincere Bhakti to deity forms

> another common feature of the three Agamic Schools. The movement of

> Agamic devotion gave rise to the art of temple building and the making

> of the images which in India, in south India especially has reached a

> higher order of perfection. It also gave rise to devotional lyric poetry

> full of poetic imagery. So also music, singing and dancing developed

> fast under the influence of the Agamas.

>

> Dr. Radhakrishna in his " Outlines of Indian Philosophy " has observed

> thus:

>

> " This living Hindu religion of today from Cape Comorin to the remotest

> corners of Tibet is essentially Tantric. Even the genuine Vedic rites

> that are preserved and are supposed to be derived straight from the

> Vedas, namely the Sandhya, have been modified by the addition of Tantric

> practice. "

>

> The two streams of thought, the Agamic and the Vedic gradually

> gravitated towards each other. After running side by side for long time

> they acted and reacted on each other and modified each other's practice

> in religion. Attempts were later made to reconcile the differences

> between them and to establish the unity of thought in Hinduism.

>

> Historically considered Virashaivism is a fine and full blown flower of

> Shaivism. For Shaivism as well as for Virashaivism the 28 Shivagamas are

> the scriptures. But Virashaivism considers the latter two parts of the

> Agamas as scriptural authority. Since the end portion of the Agamas is

> regarded as authority Virashaivism is known as Agamanta. Shiva is the

> worshipping deity for Shaivism and Virashaivism in the form of Linga.

> The Shaivas worship Shivalinga in the temples while the Virashaivas wear

> the miniature form of Shivalinga known as Ishtalinga. The Linga worn on

> the body is made of light grey slate stone and to be kept intact all

> through the wearer's life, it is coated all over with the fine durable

> black paste prepared out of certain ingredient. The coating is called

> Kanti or covering. The Linga is worshipped by placing it on the palm of

> the left hand. This is the subjective mode of worship in which the

> devotee and the divine are facing each other. Linga is three fold;

> Bhavalinga, Linga the ideal corresponding to the causal body of the

> devotee, Pranalinga, Linga the vital corresponds to the subtle body of

> the devotee. Ishtalinga, Linga the gross or the physical corresponds to

> the gross body of the devotee. The devotee starts with the worship of

> Istalinga and reaches by stages the Pranalinga and the Bhavalinga with

> the idea of his being a part and parcel of God through all the stages

> when he reaches atonement with God or Shiva.

>

> Anatomy speaks of the plexuses in the human body. These plexuses which

> are otherwise known as Chakras, are the network of the autonomic nervous

> system. The Plexuses are said to have petals as the lotus have.

> Physiologically the petals are no other than the branches of nerves

> shooting from the ganglia in different directions for the regular

> functioning of the different parts of the body. Prana runs through these

> branches and activates the different parts of the body in the particular

> locality in which a plexus is situated.

>

> The lowermost Chakra is the basis plexus called Muladhara. It has four

> branches or petals and the shape of a triangle. The second Chakra is

> Swadisthana which is situated in the pelvic region and it has six

> petals. The third Chakra is the Solar plexus with ten petals and its

> location is in the region of the navel. The fourth Chakra is the Anahata

> which has twelve petals and is located in the region of the heart. The

> fifth Chakra is Vishuddhi situated in the region of the throat and it

> has sixteen petals. The sixth is Ajna Chakra which has two petals and is

> situated between eyebrows. This is called plexus of command.

>

> In the process of Yoga the centres have a fixed physiological use and a

> general function. The Muladhara governs the physical down to the

> subconscient. The abdominal centre the Swadisthana governs the lower

> vital. According to Virashaivism these two Chakras represent the domain

> of Ishtalinga and are respectively occupied by the sub-forms of

> Istalinga -- Acharlinga in the Muladhara and Gurulinga in Swadisthana.

> This is the place of Tyaganga. The navel centre or Manipura governs the

> larger vital and the heart centre or Anahata governs the emotional

> being. These two form the vital or the intermediate plane. According to

> Virashaivism this is the plane of Bhoganga and is the domain of

> Pranalinga or the vital because the vital force of consciousness

> functions here. The throat centre or Vishuddhi governs the expressive

> mind, here consciousness assume concrete form of the sound. The centre

> between the two eyebrows governs the will. According to Virashaivism

> this is the plane of Bhavalinga - the higher intellectual plane.

>

> The human body is identified with Tyaganga with Ishtalinga working

> behind it. The autonomous nervous system with Bhoganga with Pranalinga

> working behind it; the central nervous system or cerebrum with Yoganga

> with Bhavalinga working behind it. The bodily mechanism is Tyaganga

> because it is to be directed towards the higher and in performance to

> the demands of matter. Here the Istalinga aids the soul when it becomes

> conscious of the higher end. Full faith in the divinity in the spirit of

> submission is the means to that end. The faith in relation to Shakti or

> the devotee is Shraddha which develops into Nishtha or singleness of

> purpose of Mahesha. In the first stage Acharlinga, the practical and in

> the second stage Gurulinga, the perceptive are aroused for giving the

> soul and an insight into the spiritual truth. This is the first process

> of sublimation in the upward march of the soul. Here the soul is

> purified and divested of the thoughts of the worldly life. Acharlinga

> and Gurulinga are connected with Adhara Chakra and Swadisthana Chakra

> with the corresponding awakening of the powers in them.

>

> The intermediate plane is the plane of Bhoganga, the soul in the stage

> of enjoyment. This is the psychic plane, the plane of Pranalinga. In

> this stage the soul has the co-operation of Pranalinga, for his further

> development. Here the soul has the enjoyment of material world in so far

> as it is necessary for the substance of the body which is the basis of

> all life - temporal or spiritual. In this plane the truth that material

> enjoyment and spiritual experience are in no way inconsistent but are

> mutually helpful, is demonstrated. The enjoyment of the soul is in

> company with Pranalinga so that everything that the soul takes or enjoys

> is in the first instance dedicated to Linga and is then taken as Prasad

> or consecrated food. Here conscious aspiration is the means to the

> objective of atonement of the divinity, with its two sub-division of

> Avadhana, the undivided attention fixed on the divinity in contemplation

> and Anubhava or partial experience of the divine life. The two forms of

> Shakti invoke the aid of two modifications of Pranalinga - Shivalinga

> the gracious and Charalinga the itinerant. Prasadi is the third

> modification of the soul which strives with undivided attention to earn

> the grace of God in his aspect as Shivalinga. So also the Pranalinga -

> the fourth modification of the soul attentively meditates on divinity

> and attains the stage of partial experience of the divine life. Here the

> form of Shakti is called Anubhava Bhakti, the experiential stage of the

> spiritual life. The two modifications of Pranalinga, Shivalinga and

> Charalinga are connected with Manipura Chakra and Anahata Chakra with a

> corresponding sublimation of their powers.

>

> The third plane is the plane of the highest intelligence. This is the

> plane of Yoganga to which the soul rises up gradually step by step. Here

> the soul is in the stage of regaining his oneness with the universal

> consciousness. Here he secures the help and co-operation of Bhavalinga,

> the ideal. Yoganga in its two modifications, Sharana and Aikya strives

> for regaining his essential oneness with the divinity. The two forms of

> Bhakti, Anandbhakti and Samarasabhakti invoke the aid of the two forms

> of Bhavalinga - Prasadlinga, the peaceful and Mahalinga, the great.

> Prasadalinga and Mahalinga are connected with Vishuddhi Chakra and Ajna

> Chakra with a corresponding awakening of powers in them.

>

Article from book: Unto The First, by H. H. Shri Kumarswamiji

>

> Branko Ivatovic ©

>

> Rakarska 5,

>

> 10410 Velika Gorica - Croatia

>

> branko.ivatovic

>

> Foundation H.H. Mahatapasvi Shri Kumarswamiji ©

>

> Tapovan,

>

> DHARWAD - 3

>

> KARNATAKA - INDIA

>

April 6, 2009

Dear Sriram,

Just because some abrahamics mock us for being " polytheistic " we

should not start reading monotheism into our shaastra-s. In fact we

should not fall into this monotheism-polytheism debate at all.

When we talk of truth being " one " we are referring to the essential

unity of all phenomena as brahman. This is far removed from

monotheism. The concept of the upAdAna kAraNa or material cause is

fundamentally absent in any of the monotheistic religions, but forms

one of the starting points for various Hindu non-dualist traditions,

be it the total non-dualism of advaita-vedAnta/shrIvidyA or the

somewhat pantheistic approach of vishiShTAdvaita, shivAdvaita, etc.

None of these traditions is even remotely monotheistic.

Even seshvara sAMkhya/yoga with its puruSha-prakRti dualism is not

monotheistic as the Ishvara here is only a special puruSha and

creatorhood etc are not attributed to this Ishvara.

Even the most fanatic vaiShNava-s/shaiva-s who proclaim viShNu/shiva

as uber alles do not decry the rest of the Hindu pantheon as " false " .

So I agree with Satish that we should not fall into this trap of

trying to show ourselves to be monotheistic when we are not.

Ramesh

2009/4/3 sriram <sriram_sapthasathi:

>

> It can be concluded that Vedic era propagated Monotheism and NOT Polytheism.

> Unfortunately, vedic concept of Gods is

> misinterpreted by scholars. When i had a personal talk with Swami

> Tattvavidananda Saraswati, the disciple of Dayananda Saraswati, Arsha Vidya

> Gurukulam, His Holiness was also of the same view that *there is only

> monotheism and not polytheism in Veda*.

>

> with regards,

> sriram

>

April 9, 2009

shrI gurubhyo namaH

shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH

ekam sadviprah bahudhA vadantI

(Rg veda)

comments please ?

regards.

KR.

shrI mAtre namaH

April 9, 2009

, " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote:

>

> shrI gurubhyo namaH

>

> shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH

>

> ekam sadviprah bahudhA vadantI

>

Ok. Have seen this quoted in discussions like these a number of times before.

But first, what is the context of this statement? What are the preceding and

succeding lines of this?

Once those are quoted then we will start.

April 9, 2009

shrI gurubhyo namaH

shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH

dear shrI Satish:

Please see subject line - " Polytheism in Vedas??? "

Thanks.

shrI mAtre namaH

April 9, 2009

Yes have been seeing from the begining.

So please provide the lines requested.

, " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote:

>

> shrI gurubhyo namaH

> shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH

>

> dear shrI Satish:

>

> Please see subject line - " Polytheism in Vedas??? "

>

> Thanks.

>

> shrI mAtre namaH

>

April 10, 2009

shrI gurubhyo namaH

shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH

Perhaps I was getting ahead of myself.

Various persons have asked us to stop pretending that we are monotheists,

and that there is no Vedic basis for monotheism.

I think this statement " ekam sadvipra bahudha vadanti " and various other

statements talk directly of monotheism.

shrI mAtre namaH

April 10, 2009

Om Namah Shivaya.

Perhaps a better to describe Sanathana Dharma would be 'pantheism'.

I impersonally think Advaita is the Supreme way but do understand accept and

revere all manifestations as part of the Divine.

Such a thought is neither mono (1 god) nor poly (many specific Gods). it is a

'pan' phenomenon.

I can see arguments coming forth that we don't have temples for and worship all

manifestations of the divine etc, but still feel that 'pan' is closer to

defining it than 'mono' or 'poly'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

Jai Ma!

, " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach wrote:

>

> shrI gurubhyo namaH

>

> shrI mahAgaNapataye namaH

>

> Perhaps I was getting ahead of myself.

>

> Various persons have asked us to stop pretending that we are monotheists,

> and that there is no Vedic basis for monotheism.

>

> I think this statement " ekam sadvipra bahudha vadanti " and various other

> statements talk directly of monotheism.

>

> shrI mAtre namaH

>

April 11, 2009

The problem here is of trying to fit our concepts in a western philosophical

frame, which does not work.

the definitions of monotheism etc.. necessarily arise from duality for obvious

reasons.

Statements in the Vedhas affirm a supreme non iconic Godhood of who's

manifestations we are (Advaithik realization of course).

Pantheism is close but does not take into account the concept of maya,

The best is to avoid confining our philosophy to western definitions and point

the " various persons " to a vastly rich lexicon available in Sanskrit! I would

like to see some effort on explaining Judaeo-Christianic beliefs in our

terminologies

regards

Vishwam