Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 The following is from Gopal Gopinath intended for the list. So here it is. Gopal Gopinath <gopal_gopinath Re: Re: Ambaa's protection - Shocked Saturday, June 6, 2009, 7:22 AM How can Sanathana Dharma Rakshana be out of scope in a forum dedicated for the Mother? When Sriman Narayana Himself willed it to be with in his scope to manifest as avatharaas to protect Dharma and people from those forcing other ways, why should not we become aware of the reality Satish has popped up and contemplate on them? Is it good to forget history? Is it just enough if one or a few alone thrive to be the best sadhaks doing everything in the book for personal salvation? When countless saints and salvants over the centuries have spent their times, spiritual power etc. for keeping the faith, and preventing destruction of the roots of the Dharma, is it healthy to into a denial saying 'this topic is out of scope, we want only to know about Her Glory and reach for our salvation a day earlier'? Is self-anushtana enough for dharma rakshana? Buddha-Jaina onslaught was countered starting from Sri Sankara and others. Then came the sants, nayanmars, alwaars, Sri Ramanuja and others. With growth of cancerous muslim invasions, came many heroes in north and south. They not only preached self discipline and anushtaana, but insisted upon including all sections of the society in the process of religiosity. Sri Padaraja (whose 500++ Aradhana is today), his disciple Vyaasaraja wrote works and expounded theology in local kannada to have all sections of people participate and understand. Ramanuja threw open the doors to paramapatha by revealing the Name. Purandaradasa and Kanakadasa, both disciples of Vyaasaraja and not brahmins got recognized because their Guru recognized them. K. Raya showered them with respect, people turned their backs to the powerful muslim efforts by sword and gold to convert. One of them saw the destruction of the hindu empire, died of broken heart and was buried in the same ruins of Humpi. If these savants had cared only for their salvation... they did not leave their anushtaana but they did more than that. They did not believe it was out of their scope to anything, something for dharma rakshana. If there is no way a healthy Hindu dharma could be practiced, then do the Gods melt away? or is it the loss for the people? The works and lives of greast saints, siddha purushaas, Achaaryas etc. indicate that it is our duty to protect the Dharma for our own sake. I grew up , as many of you would have, seeing dozens if not hundreds of people who were considered to be lowermost rungs of Hindu society and not fit for a take in salvation via vedic religion, to convert to christianity. Some of their brothers or family become priests of their churches. I have been told on my face that if they had or their fathers had stayed hindu, they would have still been considered untouchables and not given any role in participation in religious process. Thier children could read bible and pray during the dinner time. They would ask me which priest would be willing to teach them anything if they had stayed hindus. To date I have not seen a single priest/scholar of brahmin caste to have a student from other sections as student of anything to do with religious texts. It is easy and cozy to talk and discuss about preserving old ways of anushtaana etc. But if that is used merely to block our view of the way the roots of Hindu dharma are rotting, then it is delusional. Dharma is not for the forms of God we worship, it is for the people. Why should Ambaa come and protect a society that does not consider all Her children as having some rights (at least) to pray to Her or other forms of Gods in a common way? While Her own children for centuries defile the very edict of Love She follows with Her children, then why should She be helpful? Is She not for every hindu? If some of her children feel neglected and go away to other religions either by temptation or frustration, then is it okay for Her other children? Unless inequality due to varna in religious practices is taken off the table, the roots of this mighty tree will keep rotting. It is no use to cry foul with conversions when with in society there is exclusions of some sections. We do not have saints with the caliber and inclination of Sri Ramanuja who not only maintained anushtaana but reached out to every Hindu. All the arguments against conversion fails in the face of varna. I do not have any solutions, not spiritual power or the moral strength; I am sure I am not alone in this - praying to Her for a solution is what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 , Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: > > > Gopal Gopinath <gopal_gopinath > Re: Re: Ambaa's protection - Shocked > > Saturday, June 6, 2009, 7:22 AM > To date I have not seen a single priest/scholar of brahmin caste to have a student from other sections as student of anything to do with religious texts. What is your sample size? Mine is ~20 and each one of them has " other sections " as students. Or maybe you want the mountain to come to mohammad (pun unintended). This whole evil-brahmin theme has been beaten to death - it's getting boring. > We do not have saints with the caliber and inclination of Sri Ramanuja who not only maintained anushtaana but reached out to every Hindu. Says who? Start with Srngeri. There are fishermen of the Karnataka coast who don't start their activities till they take the name of the Acharya. If you happen to come to Mumbai, do pass by " Hotel Status " (?) near Lower Parel(E) station. You'll be greeted with a large photo of Sri Bharati Tirtha on the counter and the Shetty owner's reverence towards the Acharya is to be seen. > All the arguments against conversion fails in the face of varna. Some churches in TN have a separate area for dalit christians. That is their definition of " all are equal in Christ's eyes " . Islam has its own varna system (eg. kazmi > shaikh). Many of their marriages are governed by varna - check out shaadi.com and see the Muslim marital ads. eg: " Religion: Sunni Muslim, Caste: Hannafi " Varna is actually a lame excuse for conversion. In our case, see Vivekananda for an explanation on how varna has actually safeguarded dharma. Years of Nehruvian/Commie-driven education have led us to think that varna is bad. It isn't. What is bad is using varna to subjugate/humiliate and having it engender the ego/sense of superiority. Let's separate the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Please do not mox up " Varnashramam " with conversion The Xian religion as also islam advocate conversion But we are (Hindus)open to all who want tofollow the Dharmasastras and there is no need for conversion.Hinduism is a way of life.Hindus worship Siva,Vishnu,Skanda,Ganesha Devi as per their choice.It is a matter of outlook At the same time I amopposedto the conversions now going on with political(?) backing Om Shri Mathre Namah --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Sharan Sharma <sharan_sharma wrote: Sharan Sharma <sharan_sharma Re: varNa conversion etc. Saturday, June 6, 2009, 9:43 PM @ .com, Satish Arigela <satisharigela@ ...> wrote: > > > Gopal Gopinath <gopal_gopinath@ ...> > Re: Re: Ambaa's protection - Shocked > @ .com > Saturday, June 6, 2009, 7:22 AM > To date I have not seen a single priest/scholar of brahmin caste to have a student from other sections as student of anything to do with religious texts. What is your sample size? Mine is ~20 and each one of them has " other sections " as students. Or maybe you want the mountain to come to mohammad (pun unintended). This whole evil-brahmin theme has been beaten to death - it's getting boring. > We do not have saints with the caliber and inclination of Sri Ramanuja who not only maintained anushtaana but reached out to every Hindu. Says who? Start with Srngeri. There are fishermen of the Karnataka coast who don't start their activities till they take the name of the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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