Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Can someone explain the form of Upang Lalita that is worshiped in some places on the 5th day of Navratri? Can anyone explain the specifics of the connection of Navarna mantra and Srichakra. Does each syllable relate to the Navavaranas? Thank you, Austin Sri Rajarajeshvaryai namah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Dear Austin, Namaste. <<< Can someone explain the form of Upang Lalita that is worshiped in some places on the 5th day of Navratri? >>>>> ******************************* Kindly elaborate your question. I could not follow your question. Display of 9 Avataras in the temples or elsewhere does not have sastra pramana. In tantra sastra & devi bhagavata, Kumari Puja & Suvasini has been mentioned. I would be glad enough if anybody can show me the sastra pramana for display of avataras in temples. *********************************** Can anyone explain the specifics of the connection of Navarna mantra and Srichakra. Does each syllable relate to the Navavaranas? ************************************** There mainly 2 chief modes of sakti upasana. One is Lalitha and other is Durga. In Lalita Upasana & Srividya Amnaya krama, Chandi forms the uttara amnaya devata alongwith other deities. It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* mentioned as Shatkona & Ashtadala Padma. The mula mantra Navakshari is insribed in the middle of this Shatkona Chandi Yantra and worshipped with mithuna traya, mahakali, mahalakshmi, mahasaraswati, the bija & sakti devatas of charita traya, ashta matrikas, 24 anga devatas etc. So, Chandi Navakshari is different and Sriyantra is different which is exclusively worshipped with Panchadasi / Shodasi. However, like Rashmis of Lalitha who are 360 in number, Sapthasati also has reference to 360 rashmis or devatas for Chandi and hence resembles the Srichakra which is NOT. Chakra means a *cluster* or *group of Saktis* and Srichakra means *Cluster of Anga-devatas / Rashmis with pradhana devata as Sri*. There are several people who have attained great spiritual heights by reciting Chandi and Navarna Japa. Though most of the mandalis have slight reservations with Chandi Anushtana as they are of different opinion but it is not as the Damara Tantra & Katyayana Tantra proclaim the Navakshari as *mahad ananda dayakah*. And this *mahat ananda* is *Brahmananda* (to me atleast!!!). regs, sriram , " kalkin108 " <kalkin108 wrote: > > Can someone explain the form of Upang Lalita that is worshiped in some places on the 5th day of Navratri? > > Can anyone explain the specifics of the connection of Navarna mantra and Srichakra. Does each syllable relate to the Navavaranas? > > Thank you, > Austin > > Sri Rajarajeshvaryai namah > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Namaste Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only , " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. S.SHANGARANARAYANAN diwakarvlg Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 Re: Help with some questions Namaste Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only , " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. _______________ Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India http://in.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Namaste The Mentioning of Bindu sthana Exclusively to the Prathana devata (Primary Deity) is Mandatory in Vishesha Chakra/Yantra Archana, Purascharana Archanas or Bahir Yaga. Where it is the Sammelana (integration) of Mantra (Vidya), Tantra (Jnana) and Yantra (Theja). The Complete ritual depends upon The Prathana devata and its Moola Mantra with the Deity's Yantra and Pooja Kalpa (Tantra). The foundation is laid by offerings to Peeta,anga and appropriate Deity's and finally at the Bindu Sthana Offerings are made with the Moola mantra with the Bhavana of Prathana Devata. In this context One cannot recite the Mantra of one devata and have the Bhavana of another and offer to Some other one. If it is done in such a way it's Un–sincere. The Same thing applies to Tarpana, Abhisheka and Homa or Havana which is supposed to be done only with the deity's Mantra and Yantra with the Procedure (Tantra) given. Sivaya Vishnu rupaya , siva rupaya vishnave is the philosophy for the sake of having our faith and dedication to one Deity and seeking blessings of all the other Devatas. One STRUCTURED Dedicated and devoted (Manasa,Vaacha,Karmana) offerings to the Prathana Devata is enough for Pleasing Devatas,Pitru Devatas,Rishi's, Vamsha rishi mandalam and Guru Mandalam etc. Namaste Diwakar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Dear Sir, Let us not make any statements that are out out context and does not conform to sastra & sampradaya. Worship of anya devatas in the bindu sthana....??? This is adhama paksha as the purascharyarnava & gandharva tantra say so ie., during apath dharma. When one does not have chandi / lakshmi / saraswathi yantra for ready worship, one can invoke these devatas (only sattvika stri murtis) at the bindu sthana and worship them. Gandharva tantra & Purascharyarnava mentions about this (i don't remember the exact quote right now as i read it long back). A common sense. Can we consider a stenographer / clerk in a State Assembly as equivalent to Chief Minister / Prime Minister? Every one has got their portfolios in Assembly. Similarly, the avarana devatas in Sriyantra where our Lady Queen Lalitha is the Supreme. Shri Bhaskararaya Makhin has dealt in detail the Sanketa Traya Tattva ie., puja, chakra & mantra sanketas. So, let us NOT TRESPASS the sampradaya as i keep ranting in this forum. Worship of pitrudevata in srichakra ......???? Let us not make fanciful statements like this. There are some laymen in Srividya in this forum who might take this statement for granted. Why would anyone worship pitrudevata in sriyantra. For pitrudevata aradhana, it is enough if one makes a pinda with rice (anna pinda). Pitru devatas are invoked on the anna pinda. First you said, Saibaba can be worshipped in Sriyantra; and then you say Pitru devatas can be worshipped in Sriyantra. I fail to understand what you are driving at. If it is so, then LET US THROW PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA, NITYOTSAVA, SAUBHAGYA CHINTAMANI KALPA AND OTHER SASTRA / TANTRA GRANDHAS IN BAY OF BENGAL and start our *own* Tantra... with regs, sriram , S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: > > > The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. > > Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > > diwakarvlg > Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > Namaste > > Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only > > , " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi@> wrote: > > > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... > > As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > > > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. > > A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. > > > _______________ > Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India > http://in.msn.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Sri Gurubhyon Namaha *** Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam *** How many have reached the state to comprehend all these, only after you have gone to that state will these statements be of some use, as it can be shown by examples. If anyone ever reaches this state he would no longer need the physical sri yantra as he can contemplate it in his own body and mind. It is basically for our manda and jada buddihis to comprehend the supreme that the rules have been laid out. One cannot just use these statements and qualify the use of the rituals as he needs, as there is a saying that " puli ni choosi nakka vata pettukundi " . One cannot imitate the lives of the saints just by reading it has to be folowed and the path to it is the shastras, any transgressing from it is saying a no to vedas which would disqualify you from following it. Every thing is brahmam is a statement, but can anyone of us in the 1 billion population of india excluding a few great men probably 10-20 in number really follow it, can we see brahmam in a chandala or dog or cat or any other animal, can we eat what it does, we are definitely bound to say chi chi or no no to what they eat Sai ate from the same plate in which a dog ate. So lets not equate or just follow the lifestyle he led. Because in our lives like in movies no follower discretion is advised, only gurus or shastras discretion. Sri Kamakshi Raghav ________________________________ babi <sriram_sapthasathi Tue, October 13, 2009 2:00:28 PM Re: Help with some questions Dear Sir, Let us not make any statements that are out out context and does not conform to sastra & sampradaya. Worship of anya devatas in the bindu sthana....?? ? This is adhama paksha as the purascharyarnava & gandharva tantra say so ie., during apath dharma. When one does not have chandi / lakshmi / saraswathi yantra for ready worship, one can invoke these devatas (only sattvika stri murtis) at the bindu sthana and worship them. Gandharva tantra & Purascharyarnava mentions about this (i don't remember the exact quote right now as i read it long back). A common sense. Can we consider a stenographer / clerk in a State Assembly as equivalent to Chief Minister / Prime Minister? Every one has got their portfolios in Assembly. Similarly, the avarana devatas in Sriyantra where our Lady Queen Lalitha is the Supreme. Shri Bhaskararaya Makhin has dealt in detail the Sanketa Traya Tattva ie., puja, chakra & mantra sanketas. So, let us NOT TRESPASS the sampradaya as i keep ranting in this forum. Worship of pitrudevata in srichakra ......???? Let us not make fanciful statements like this. There are some laymen in Srividya in this forum who might take this statement for granted. Why would anyone worship pitrudevata in sriyantra. For pitrudevata aradhana, it is enough if one makes a pinda with rice (anna pinda). Pitru devatas are invoked on the anna pinda. First you said, Saibaba can be worshipped in Sriyantra; and then you say Pitru devatas can be worshipped in Sriyantra. I fail to understand what you are driving at. If it is so, then LET US THROW PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA, NITYOTSAVA, SAUBHAGYA CHINTAMANI KALPA AND OTHER SASTRA / TANTRA GRANDHAS IN BAY OF BENGAL and start our *own* Tantra... with regs, sriram @ .com, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai@. ..> wrote: > > > The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. > > Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > @ .com > diwakarvlg@. .. > Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > Namaste > > Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only > > @ .com, " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi @> wrote: > > > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... > > As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > > > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. > > A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India > http://in.msn. com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Dear Divine, One has to have his goal constantly before him to reach it. Without making any attempt just making comments for the sake of argument is not going to yield. One should trust, believe and have good faith what has been said by great saints. I can defenitely say that once a mandalam has been established for nava avarana pooja, no death takes place, because even Yama if he has a soul to be pulled out from that residence, becomes Devi Herself once he enters the premises and forgets his work. The statement is not to disprove or claim uniqueness of any person, but only to understand the uniqueness of the Divine Mother who is the Mother for all of us for ever. Why not the sadak become one of the greatmen claimed to be 20 or 30. If one merges his thought, deed, action into the Guru and floats there hand in hand with the Guru in the centre, he will become a part and parcel of the universe. In that condition he is not even aware of his state of being and becoming and remains as a " jata " . He has no words to comment, criticise or dwell outside his supreme consciousness, which in fact is the consciousness of everything in this universe. if one has not been bestowed with a Guru of high calibre who can take him to " That " state, what is the use of such arguments. Let the sadhak try to first understand the Guru, interact with Him for integration, then enjoy the bliss through unstinted sadhana. That will certainly prove the statement given by me as perfect, real, achievable and what not. There is no distinction of caste, creed, colour, ego, status etc., in srividhya worship and that is why it is called " athmavidhya " . Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN rganti9 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:46:18 -0700 Re: Re: Help with some questions Sri Gurubhyon Namaha *** Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam *** How many have reached the state to comprehend all these, only after you have gone to that state will these statements be of some use, as it can be shown by examples. If anyone ever reaches this state he would no longer need the physical sri yantra as he can contemplate it in his own body and mind. It is basically for our manda and jada buddihis to comprehend the supreme that the rules have been laid out. One cannot just use these statements and qualify the use of the rituals as he needs, as there is a saying that " puli ni choosi nakka vata pettukundi " . One cannot imitate the lives of the saints just by reading it has to be folowed and the path to it is the shastras, any transgressing from it is saying a no to vedas which would disqualify you from following it. Every thing is brahmam is a statement, but can anyone of us in the 1 billion population of india excluding a few great men probably 10-20 in number really follow it, can we see brahmam in a chandala or dog or cat or any other animal, can we eat what it does, we are definitely bound to say chi chi or no no to what they eat Sai ate from the same plate in which a dog ate. So lets not equate or just follow the lifestyle he led. Because in our lives like in movies no follower discretion is advised, only gurus or shastras discretion. Sri Kamakshi Raghav ________________________________ babi <sriram_sapthasathi Tue, October 13, 2009 2:00:28 PM Re: Help with some questions Dear Sir, Let us not make any statements that are out out context and does not conform to sastra & sampradaya. Worship of anya devatas in the bindu sthana....?? ? This is adhama paksha as the purascharyarnava & gandharva tantra say so ie., during apath dharma. When one does not have chandi / lakshmi / saraswathi yantra for ready worship, one can invoke these devatas (only sattvika stri murtis) at the bindu sthana and worship them. Gandharva tantra & Purascharyarnava mentions about this (i don't remember the exact quote right now as i read it long back). A common sense. Can we consider a stenographer / clerk in a State Assembly as equivalent to Chief Minister / Prime Minister? Every one has got their portfolios in Assembly. Similarly, the avarana devatas in Sriyantra where our Lady Queen Lalitha is the Supreme. Shri Bhaskararaya Makhin has dealt in detail the Sanketa Traya Tattva ie., puja, chakra & mantra sanketas. So, let us NOT TRESPASS the sampradaya as i keep ranting in this forum. Worship of pitrudevata in srichakra ......???? Let us not make fanciful statements like this. There are some laymen in Srividya in this forum who might take this statement for granted. Why would anyone worship pitrudevata in sriyantra. For pitrudevata aradhana, it is enough if one makes a pinda with rice (anna pinda). Pitru devatas are invoked on the anna pinda. First you said, Saibaba can be worshipped in Sriyantra; and then you say Pitru devatas can be worshipped in Sriyantra. I fail to understand what you are driving at. If it is so, then LET US THROW PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA, NITYOTSAVA, SAUBHAGYA CHINTAMANI KALPA AND OTHER SASTRA / TANTRA GRANDHAS IN BAY OF BENGAL and start our *own* Tantra... with regs, sriram @ .com, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai@. ..> wrote: > > > The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. > > Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > @ .com > diwakarvlg@. .. > Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > Namaste > > Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only > > @ .com, " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi @> wrote: > > > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... > > As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > > > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. > > A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India > http://in.msn. com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I would certainly say that worshipping the pitru devata in sriyantra is perfect in all respects. When you can worship the Gurus in the sriyantra why not pitrus. Matru devo bhava, Pitru devo bhava is the basis. The sadak is selfish as not to raise the statues of their pitrus, being a devi upasaka, because he has his own doubts about his capacity and will, and most importantly the capacity of the Guru who initiated, who is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. The tripura rahasya says the worship, worshipped and the worshipper becomes one, and one living in this world merges with the Ultimate even in the living condition, why not the pitrus who are already merged with the universal energy. Why should one have selfish restrictions and claim to be great when he has no capacity, perhaps, to lift the soul of the parents, save the whole universe. Did not Rama, krishna, give upliftment to their parents. Let us have the will, guidance, help, support and what not of the great gurus, guru mandalam to achieve this objective. Why one should throw away the scriptures. Lack of understanding of the universal energy and/or the latent-potent energy one has, is the biggest problem. The same parasurama kalpa sutra and other texts say " sarvam vidhyamayam " , sarvam Tejomayam, sarvam brahma mayam. will any one dispute it because of lack of one's understanding. By your observations, I personally feel, that you are degrading your ownself and also bringing a lot of doubt in the minds of the sadhakas. Doubting thomases have always arguments and counter arguments in such matters of reality. This is not to hurt any one's feeling. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN sriram_sapthasathi Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:30:28 +0000 Re: Help with some questions Dear Sir, Let us not make any statements that are out out context and does not conform to sastra & sampradaya. Worship of anya devatas in the bindu sthana....??? This is adhama paksha as the purascharyarnava & gandharva tantra say so ie., during apath dharma. When one does not have chandi / lakshmi / saraswathi yantra for ready worship, one can invoke these devatas (only sattvika stri murtis) at the bindu sthana and worship them. Gandharva tantra & Purascharyarnava mentions about this (i don't remember the exact quote right now as i read it long back). A common sense. Can we consider a stenographer / clerk in a State Assembly as equivalent to Chief Minister / Prime Minister? Every one has got their portfolios in Assembly. Similarly, the avarana devatas in Sriyantra where our Lady Queen Lalitha is the Supreme. Shri Bhaskararaya Makhin has dealt in detail the Sanketa Traya Tattva ie., puja, chakra & mantra sanketas. So, let us NOT TRESPASS the sampradaya as i keep ranting in this forum. Worship of pitrudevata in srichakra ......???? Let us not make fanciful statements like this. There are some laymen in Srividya in this forum who might take this statement for granted. Why would anyone worship pitrudevata in sriyantra. For pitrudevata aradhana, it is enough if one makes a pinda with rice (anna pinda). Pitru devatas are invoked on the anna pinda. First you said, Saibaba can be worshipped in Sriyantra; and then you say Pitru devatas can be worshipped in Sriyantra. I fail to understand what you are driving at. If it is so, then LET US THROW PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA, NITYOTSAVA, SAUBHAGYA CHINTAMANI KALPA AND OTHER SASTRA / TANTRA GRANDHAS IN BAY OF BENGAL and start our *own* Tantra... with regs, sriram , S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: > > > The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. > > Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > > diwakarvlg > Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > Namaste > > Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only > > , " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi@> wrote: > > > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... > > As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > > > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. > > A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. > > > ________ > Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India > http://in.msn.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Let us not confuse ourselves with religion and spirituality. They are totally different. Religion relates to the body and mind and spirituality relates to the soul. If one is unable to establish soul to soul interaction and integration, there is no possibility of even the remotest achievement of reality. That is all. S.SHANGARANARAYANAN diwakarvlg Tue, 13 Oct 2009 02:22:57 +0000 Re: Help with some questions Namaste The Mentioning of Bindu sthana Exclusively to the Prathana devata (Primary Deity) is Mandatory in Vishesha Chakra/Yantra Archana, Purascharana Archanas or Bahir Yaga. Where it is the Sammelana (integration) of Mantra (Vidya), Tantra (Jnana) and Yantra (Theja). The Complete ritual depends upon The Prathana devata and its Moola Mantra with the Deity's Yantra and Pooja Kalpa (Tantra). The foundation is laid by offerings to Peeta,anga and appropriate Deity's and finally at the Bindu Sthana Offerings are made with the Moola mantra with the Bhavana of Prathana Devata. In this context One cannot recite the Mantra of one devata and have the Bhavana of another and offer to Some other one. If it is done in such a way it's Un–sincere. The Same thing applies to Tarpana, Abhisheka and Homa or Havana which is supposed to be done only with the deity's Mantra and Yantra with the Procedure (Tantra) given. Sivaya Vishnu rupaya , siva rupaya vishnave is the philosophy for the sake of having our faith and dedication to one Deity and seeking blessings of all the other Devatas. One STRUCTURED Dedicated and devoted (Manasa,Vaacha,Karmana) offerings to the Prathana Devata is enough for Pleasing Devatas,Pitru Devatas,Rishi's, Vamsha rishi mandalam and Guru Mandalam etc. Namaste Diwakar _______________ Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India http://in.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Sir, Does one reach a state where one intuitively understand the " Core principle " of each of the pooja vidhIs and then wants to transcend them - because the bahir pooja, the procedure and paddhathi are only a means to the end and the end is actually reached thru a " different " procedure, which can be so very personalised/ not necassarily as per the " usual " scriptures that every one quotes? Sir, if everything is sakthimaya,gyanamaya,tejomaya etc, why have a form? why still need a bindu to invoke some god/goddess and still have a puja krama to do the pooja? why do an aachamanam at all, if the primardial pralayaapa is already known and understood?If at all any item outside you is required for the " pooja " to happen inside you, arent we still at a stage where a krama has to be followed? If so what better krama than what SHE has given us thru the rishis? Why do we need to improvise on HER padhathi, given by HER, may be thru the rishis? The rishis wouldnt have created it unless, SHE gave them the vidhya? Why do you want to improve HER procedure? pithrus in the bindu is quite a stretch of " everything is in the srichakra. " If ambaal has given these procedure that you describe, then this is blessings to you. No one else can follow that. So why justify that to be the procedure for all? Sriram's anxiety of laymen taking your mesg as " THE procedure " is very true, as I am one such layman. Even a limited reading of parasurama kalpasutra or the saparya padhathi or saparya vaasanaa, or the anna's version of navaavarNA pooja- and i know that is a limited reading, there are members of the forum, who can actually quote from the tantra- nowhere are the things that you have mentioned appear. Your " one-size-fits-all " description..... not to be found there. Ravi had told in one of the posts, that in this forum, there is no insistance on following any one person, but these are points on discussion. True. But then, if each starts following ones own procedure,wonder what this whole trip is about!!!! Lets leave HER out of all this, and do what we want. Why trouble HER? srI harI Gopi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 One should think twice before establishing Religion which is been designed in the broadest way including all the essence of life as mere subject of Body and mind..? Raghupati Raghave raja ram pateeta pavana Sita Ram Iswara Allah tero naam Sab ko SAMMATI te Bhagavan Namaste , S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: > > > Let us not confuse ourselves with religion and spirituality. They are totally different. Religion relates to the body and mind and spirituality relates to the soul. If one is unable to establish soul to soul interaction and integration, there is no possibility of even the remotest achievement of reality. That is all. > > > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Dear Sir, Namaste. Yes i have not truly understood the universal principle. Kindly excuse me for my ignorance. So, i understand that our pitrudevatas can be worshipped in sriyantra. So, one can substitute the shraddha karma with Navavarana Archana & Srividya Japa, Mula Mantra Japa & Tarpana at Bindu Sthana with the names of our ancestors. Right?? Can you suggest any puja paddhati for pitru devata aradhana at bindu sthana? regs, sriram --- On Wed, 14/10/09, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai RE: Re: Help with some questions Wednesday, 14 October, 2009, 7:06 AM I would certainly say that worshipping the pitru devata in sriyantra is perfect in all respects. When you can worship the Gurus in the sriyantra why not pitrus. Matru devo bhava, Pitru devo bhava is the basis. The sadak is selfish as not to raise the statues of their pitrus, being a devi upasaka, because he has his own doubts about his capacity and will, and most importantly the capacity of the Guru who initiated, who is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. The tripura rahasya says the worship, worshipped and the worshipper becomes one, and one living in this world merges with the Ultimate even in the living condition, why not the pitrus who are already merged with the universal energy. Why should one have selfish restrictions and claim to be great when he has no capacity, perhaps, to lift the soul of the parents, save the whole universe. Did not Rama, krishna, give upliftment to their parents. Let us have the will, guidance, help, support and what not of the great gurus, guru mandalam to achieve this objective. Why one should throw away the scriptures. Lack of understanding of the universal energy and/or the latent-potent energy one has, is the biggest problem. The same parasurama kalpa sutra and other texts say " sarvam vidhyamayam " , sarvam Tejomayam, sarvam brahma mayam. will any one dispute it because of lack of one's understanding. By your observations, I personally feel, that you are degrading your ownself and also bringing a lot of doubt in the minds of the sadhakas. Doubting thomases have always arguments and counter arguments in such matters of reality. This is not to hurt any one's feeling. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN @ .com sriram_sapthasathi@ grouply.com Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:30:28 +0000 Re: Help with some questions Dear Sir, Let us not make any statements that are out out context and does not conform to sastra & sampradaya. Worship of anya devatas in the bindu sthana....?? ? This is adhama paksha as the purascharyarnava & gandharva tantra say so ie., during apath dharma. When one does not have chandi / lakshmi / saraswathi yantra for ready worship, one can invoke these devatas (only sattvika stri murtis) at the bindu sthana and worship them. Gandharva tantra & Purascharyarnava mentions about this (i don't remember the exact quote right now as i read it long back). A common sense. Can we consider a stenographer / clerk in a State Assembly as equivalent to Chief Minister / Prime Minister? Every one has got their portfolios in Assembly. Similarly, the avarana devatas in Sriyantra where our Lady Queen Lalitha is the Supreme. Shri Bhaskararaya Makhin has dealt in detail the Sanketa Traya Tattva ie., puja, chakra & mantra sanketas. So, let us NOT TRESPASS the sampradaya as i keep ranting in this forum. Worship of pitrudevata in srichakra ......???? Let us not make fanciful statements like this. There are some laymen in Srividya in this forum who might take this statement for granted. Why would anyone worship pitrudevata in sriyantra. For pitrudevata aradhana, it is enough if one makes a pinda with rice (anna pinda). Pitru devatas are invoked on the anna pinda. First you said, Saibaba can be worshipped in Sriyantra; and then you say Pitru devatas can be worshipped in Sriyantra. I fail to understand what you are driving at. If it is so, then LET US THROW PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA, NITYOTSAVA, SAUBHAGYA CHINTAMANI KALPA AND OTHER SASTRA / TANTRA GRANDHAS IN BAY OF BENGAL and start our *own* Tantra... with regs, sriram @ .com, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai@. ..> wrote: > > > The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. > > Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > @ .com > diwakarvlg@. .. > Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > Namaste > > Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only > > @ .com, " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi @> wrote: > > > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... > > As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > > > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. > > A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India > http://in.msn. com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 The lalitha navAvaraNa pUja paTala of Parashurama Kalpa sutra says: // tisruNAmAsAmantaramabhEdAya mUladEvyAh pUja; kAmeshwaryAdichaturthanityAnAm shodaShI chakradEvInAm navamI binduchakrasthA chEtyEkaiva; na tatra mantra dEvata bhEdah kAryah ......// Shri Parasharama emphasizes the vakya " na tatra mantra devata bhedah " . Shri Rameshwara Pandita in his commentary on this sutra says: prakrita chakre kameshwaryadibhyah param chaturthi, panchadasanityabhyah param shodasi, ashtachakrat param navame bindou saiva chakarasuchita.....tatra eshu sthaleshu devata bhedah mantra bhedascha NASTI.....nanu devata aikye dravya aikye mantra aikye sakrudeva pujanam yuktam ......// The Shri Parashurama while explaining the tattva " param chaturthi " maintains a silence in the sutra by mentioning as " trikONe vAkkAmashaktisamastapUrvAh kAmeshwarIvajrEshwarIbhagamAlinI mahAdEvyah bindou chaturthI " . This means that 8th avarana trikona is presided by vakbhava, kamaraja & sakti kutas individually by kameshwari, vajreshwari & bhagamalini. In other words, vama, jyeshta & Raudri in the order of satva, rajas & tamas gunas respectively. The samashti tattva in the Ambika in the form of Tripurasundari whose pramana is shown in Vamakeshwara tantra as: " kameshwarim agra kone vajreshim dakshine tatah bhagamalini tatha vame madhye tripurasundarim // So, the Bindu chakra of sriyantra is presided by Tripurasundari ONLY. Further, Shri Rameshwara emphasises on the ABHEDA TATTVA OF Devata & Mantra by uttering " bhedascha nasti " . with this i would like to end this discussion on the mantra devata at the Bindu sthana. shubha dipavali.... regs, sriram , S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: > > > I would certainly say that worshipping the pitru devata in sriyantra is perfect in all respects. When you can worship the Gurus in the sriyantra why not pitrus. Matru devo bhava, Pitru devo bhava is the basis. > > The sadak is selfish as not to raise the statues of their pitrus, being a devi upasaka, because he has his own doubts about his capacity and will, and most importantly the capacity of the Guru who initiated, who is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. The tripura rahasya says the worship, worshipped and the worshipper becomes one, and one living in this world merges with the Ultimate even in the living condition, why not the pitrus who are already merged with the universal energy. Why should one have selfish restrictions and claim to be great when he has no capacity, perhaps, to lift the soul of the parents, save the whole universe. > > Did not Rama, krishna, give upliftment to their parents. > > Let us have the will, guidance, help, support and what not of the great gurus, guru mandalam to achieve this objective. > > > > Why one should throw away the scriptures. Lack of understanding of the universal energy and/or the latent-potent energy one has, is the biggest problem. The same parasurama kalpa sutra and other texts say " sarvam vidhyamayam " , sarvam Tejomayam, sarvam brahma mayam. will any one dispute it because of lack of one's understanding. > > > > By your observations, I personally feel, that you are degrading your ownself and also bringing a lot of doubt in the minds of the sadhakas. Doubting thomases have always arguments and counter arguments in such matters of reality. > > > > This is not to hurt any one's feeling. > > Regards, > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > sriram_sapthasathi > Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:30:28 +0000 > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > Let us not make any statements that are out out context and does not conform to sastra & sampradaya. > > Worship of anya devatas in the bindu sthana....??? > > This is adhama paksha as the purascharyarnava & gandharva tantra say so ie., during apath dharma. When one does not have chandi / lakshmi / saraswathi yantra for ready worship, one can invoke these devatas (only sattvika stri murtis) at the bindu sthana and worship them. Gandharva tantra & Purascharyarnava mentions about this (i don't remember the exact quote right now as i read it long back). > > A common sense. > > Can we consider a stenographer / clerk in a State Assembly as equivalent to Chief Minister / Prime Minister? Every one has got their portfolios in Assembly. Similarly, the avarana devatas in Sriyantra where our Lady Queen Lalitha is the Supreme. > > Shri Bhaskararaya Makhin has dealt in detail the Sanketa Traya Tattva ie., puja, chakra & mantra sanketas. So, let us NOT TRESPASS the sampradaya as i keep ranting in this forum. > > Worship of pitrudevata in srichakra ......???? > > Let us not make fanciful statements like this. There are some laymen in Srividya in this forum who might take this statement for granted. > > Why would anyone worship pitrudevata in sriyantra. For pitrudevata aradhana, it is enough if one makes a pinda with rice (anna pinda). Pitru devatas are invoked on the anna pinda. > > First you said, Saibaba can be worshipped in Sriyantra; and then you say Pitru devatas can be worshipped in Sriyantra. > > I fail to understand what you are driving at. If it is so, then LET US THROW PARASURAMA KALPA SUTRA, NITYOTSAVA, SAUBHAGYA CHINTAMANI KALPA AND OTHER SASTRA / TANTRA GRANDHAS IN BAY OF BENGAL and start our *own* Tantra... > > with regs, > sriram > > , S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai@> wrote: > > > > > > The bindu contains all the devathas - anga, upanga, prathyinga and gurupaduka. Hence there is no question of any restriction on worshipping the Bindu all the devathas. in fact even our pitru devathas, kula devathas etc., can be worshipped in the centre bindu stana as that would mean that everything comes out of Her and merges with Her finally. Akula sahastrara contains all the impressions of the chakras below and similarly the mooladhara contains all the impressions of the akula sahasrara. otherwise cross over from one end to another and vice versa is not at all possible and feasible. > > > > Everything is vidhyamayam, thejomayam and gnanamayam and that puts an end to all arguments in this regard. > > > > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diwakarvlg@ > > Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:32:24 +0000 > > Re: Help with some questions > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste > > > > Going through the post these are few aspects that I wanted to mention as Observations only > > > > , " babi " <sriram_sapthasathi@> wrote: > > > > > > It is to be remembered that in Srichakra, Lalita is the *Supreme Queen* and no other deity should be worshipped at the Bindu Sthana. Rest of the deities form the avarana devatas who are called *Anga Devatas* or *Rashmis*. > > > Similarly, Chandi can also be worshipped independently alongwith its anga vidyas. There is a explicitly *Chandi Yantra* ...... > > > > As no Other Deity other than lalita should be worshipped on Sri chakra. Lalita cannot be worshipped on Chandi Yantra as Chandi is the Prathana Devata of Chandi Yantra the Same applies to other Deities and their Yantras. There cannot be Crossovers or on lighter note No Trespassing is allowed. Importantly in Vishesha Avarana Poojas of the Yantras. > > > > > > > > Mula Mantra for Lalitha is panchadasi / shodasi and Mala Mantra is Khadga Mala. > > > > A Mantra when it exceeds a certain alphabet count becomes a Mala Mantra. But Khadga mala is Classified as Khadga mala for it consists all the Avarana Devatas or the Yantra Devatas of the Deity. Hence all the Yantra devatas have Khadga mala and the same Namas (names) are used as Namavali in Archana also. So Maybe Khadga mala has a unique Identification from MalaMantra both for its contents and application. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________ > > Begin your day with a strong dose of news, sports, entertainment and more on MSN India > > http://in.msn.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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