Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Hi Kartik: Thanks for your response. *** I am not a physicist so I dont know much about the various analytical techniques used in the measure of energy. ... There is free energy, which is easily measured by calorimetry and then there is radiation which obviously has its own specifics ... [but] this seems like a lot of hippie pseudo-science than the more mundane science I am used to. *** But this analysis is stuck solely on the sthula plane -- you're confusing material energy with subtle energy. That's like dissecting a human body and saying " Ah-ha, there are no physical chakras in here, so I've proven *that's* bullshit. " Likewise, subtle energy -- prana if you like -- was not discovered by the rishis of yore by using calorimetry. And although you are free to toss aside their findings in favor of Sir Isaac Newton and his heirs, that does not necessarily mean that their revelations and teachings are " hippie pseudo-science. " *** DB, I think once again you are ignoring what it is I am trying to express and concentrating on just isolated statements. *** Compared to some of the off-board love letters I've been receiving, your words are very kind. ;-) I am sorry if I've been ignoring and misunderstanding important ideas. I will strive to do better! *** There is no meaning to a object unless we associate a meaning to it *** You think so? Perhaps you are right! It is a great theory. I also read somewhere that there is no God unless we believe in Her/Him/It. According to some quantum physicists there are no objects at all unless we perceive them. More things in heaven and earth, Horatio! DB > > Radhakrishnan J <jayaarshree > > Monday, 19 March, 2007 6:16:29 AM > Re: Re: Results with Devipuram Maha Merus? > > > Hi DB & Kartik > > You all are too techno-savvy in SV that for a person like me your arguments appear endless logomachies. > > I can vouchsafe for onething. I have a close friend in Kumbhakonam who is a hereditory Sthapati and a master in Rigveda, Shilpashastra etc., One german who came to meet this sthapati had an instrument for measuring bio-energy. Simple diagrams (in pencil on paper) of easy chakras gave out energies and srichakra roughly sketched in pencil gave a fantastic amount of energy. The Sthapati comes of an accomplished Srividya-upasaka family. > > Merus and chakras do have their effect. > > Do pl continue your arguments and rejoinders -- mine was just a commercial break. > > JR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I apologize for the broken links. Here are the tiny urls: http://tinyurl.com/2s7cmh http://tinyurl.com/37cj96 , " ganpra " <ganpra wrote: > > May be this is the " bio-energy " as it was refered to. > > http://www.transcendencedesign.com/cgi- > bin/shop.pl/SID=1162144552.9436/page=yantra_meru_chakra.html > > Here is another scientific article (peer reviewed). I do not know > much about the standard of the journal though. > > http://www.selfreferral.com/sriyantra/References/Kulaichev% > 20control.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Hi Willendorfer: Just for clarification. *** This sequence of posts is, in my judgement, a beautiful example of what can happen when a person speaks his/her own truth and maintains an open mind to hearing the truths of others. *** It is a beautiful example of a lotus growing out of the mud. Unfortunately there was little or no truth being spoken in that particular thread, though that last entry you referenced was very pretty and nice indeed. *** Wanna_Be_Bhakta_of_the_Devi was feeling doubt and disappointment about her decision to purchase this meru. *** Wanna-be is a man, not a woman. He did not purchase a Meru, nor was he at the Mahakumbaabhishekam at Devipuram, nor did he receive diksa from Sri Amritananda. All of that was a pretense, apparently set up as an excuse to attack the perceived commercialism of the Meru sales. *** She spoke honestly about her feelings and judgements in this group. *** He is a frequent troll in this and many other Hinduism-related groups and has joined and quit (or been kicked out of) this and other groups many times, and under many different ID's. The most recent, " wanna_be " ID has already left this group. *** I applaud her willingness to say something potentially unpopular. Even more, I applaud her willingness to reevaluate her judgements after getting input from others. This is how spiritual growth happens, isn't it? *** All of these are lovely lessons indeed, but in this particular case they were completely fabricated by this fellow. No matter, we can learn moral lessons from fiction as well as non-fiction. *** Some members, it seems to me, interpreted her initial comments as an attack on the reputation of Guru Amritananda Natha, and got defensive. *** If you would include me among those members, you are quite right. And I stand by my perceptions. *** When I get " triggered " by someone else, I try to look at what my reaction tells me about myself and my own insecurities. *** Another excellent piece of advice, but I am too afraid to look! *lol* Luckily, I received a sweet letter from Mahahradanatha just this morning detailing my self and insecurities (as perceived by him) just this morning. Would be happy to share it with you if it doesn't melt my hard drive first. *** As Guru Amritananda himself writes (in a somewhat different context), " If you say killing a person is bad, then I say killing a person's mind is also bad. " You are correct about context -- it actually concerned the performance of a meditative technique known as vasana kshayam. This case was something entirely different, though you may find it difficult to believe if you've never moderated a large group. FOr example, you did not see the off-board letters we received from this character for nearly 24 hours straight, half (the Western hemisphere :-p) fielded by me, the other half (Eastern) by Nora, until she finally did what I should have done a day earlier and gave him the bum's rush. On well, live and learn -- or in my case, live and never learn *lol* Here's to the next round! DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Namaste DB, I think I had mentioned the term " bio-energy " as being mumbo jumbo. GP those were commercial sites no? Rishis had different objectives, they were inwardly oriented to understanding the intangible, more permanent nature of their persons. Scientists try to understand natural observation and to a degree abstract logic. Lets cut this topic right there, I dont want to debase any more stuff. As far I am concerned with God... well it doesnt matter to some whether God exists or not, since this world has a mixture of the religious type and also their opposites. But why not put it this way, God is a meaningless term unless we give it some meaning. The being that it is supposed to signify is not limited to just that term, and that term itself is a device conceived by man as it is part of a language. Merus are man made and geared for humans, it is only by some intense begging and grovelling does Devi grace it with her prasAda. Bhagawati is Nitya Swarupa and responds to a variety of forms of worship, one can worship her in the root of a bilva and She will respond. Others might want a more sophisticated route and so they'd worship her in a Meru- You seem to think that I am undermining the worship of the Meru. In fact I consider it to be a very complicated article of worship and in order for one to actually proceed with its worship there needs to be some notion of it being a symbol of Devi. How can one transfer their bhakti to Devi via a Meru if the person doesnt know that the Meru is somehow connected to Devi. If that knowledge isnt there then the Meru is meaningless to such a person with respect to Devi Upasana...that is the message. The Meru becomes meaningless to the person unless some form of meaning is associated with it, I am not questioning the inner workings and powers of the Meru; however even for argument's sake it did have some without worship, then how would someone be capable of appreciating it without that aforementioned knowledge, or coming to that type of conclusion??? If Devi is Nitya Swarupa then why do people differ in their ideologies and practices, there are so many acharas, so many bhavas and calibres of worship, as there are names, forms and dhyanas. To rationalize this I came to a conclusion that there is only One Maha Shakti and it without changing its own quintessential nature, can manifest a variety of different responses to those who choose to associate with her. The Meru is simply a vehicle of associating with Devi, to concede to this you must infact be aware of it having some connection with Devi. Now, what does that not make sense? The term Devi or Lalita also are meaningless unless we associate meaning to them- surely you are aware of mantra shastra that without the Knowledge of the nature of the bijas, the yoginis that attend to Lalita will not allow the practitioner to approach her. When I was given total upadesha in TB I was told about the exact specifics of her dhayana- She is always visualized with a jaTaH which is laced with beautiful pearls. If you've seen high quality pearls, you'd know they can behave like natural mirrors. The reasoning behind visualizing Devi in this manner is to understand the concept that a variety of different people have their own impressions about what she is and what her nature is, they just mirror their impressions back to themselves as Bhagawati to a large extent fulfils all desire. This is way differences in opinion does not suggest why one part HAS to be wrong, in science it is a different story. I dont doubt that having a Meru in one's home without doing proper worship to it, might, it just might do some good. But without knowing that it is prasAda of Devi how would someone be able to appreciate that and localize it to actually being an effect generated by the Meru. This is what I mean, by association and only by association do we give meaning to objects, terms and other articles of worship. The nature of Narmadeshwara, and Meru is that they respond to whoever is their care taker, when the practitioner does prana pratistha it is their own pranas that they are extending and connecting with these objects; at least for the short term. The intrinsic nature of these objects might not change but how can a person be capable of appreciating the full qualities of Meru as a manifestation of Bhagawati without the knowledge it actually being such??????? I've repeated that one question over and over hope it sinks in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Namaste I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong however by the definition of what Meru is, what you are saying is not applicable to a Meru? And if a Meru is not just a mere object pe se then the AFFECTS of its power are perceivable in/on even a person who doesn't know what it is. Its perceivable power is perhaps avident to a person further along the path. My 2 cents worth continues below... , kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: > > > I am not a physicist so I dont know much about the various analytical techniques used in the measure of energy. However, this it the first time I've head of " bio-energy " . There is free energy, which is easily measured by calorimetry and then there is radiation which obviously has its own specifics depending on the type of radiation one is interested in. So unless you explain this, it seems like a lot of hippie pseudo-science than the more mundane science I am used to. The term bioenergy itself is supposed to refer to renewable forms of energy that can be used for sustainable devlopment [i.e. cow manure, metabolic by products of living organisms, even photosynthesis is an example of it] there is a generic term and can be used very loosely and has no real merit in fundamental scientific theory- just in its application. I used wikipedia to get an understanding of what this bioenergy; a very loose and vague term at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 , kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: > > > I think I had mentioned the term " bio-energy " as being mumbo jumbo. GP those were commercial sites no? _______________________________ First one is commercial, but the 2nd one (scholarly, peer reviewed article) is not. I also read a looooooong word document, where the person had drawn several figures of " spiritual significance " on vast areas of land. The person had also drawn a ~ 1/4 mile wide and observed (interviewing the local resident population on changes they felt and also the atmospheric and other behavior) its effects on the environment. It was not scientifically backed up, but an interesting read. Here is the part about 1/4 mile wide Sri Yantra in Oregon desert. It is rather loooooooooooong. ______________________________ „¦ 1995-2003 Bill Witherspoon All rights reserved. [One can look up the name of the author and find this article in full] II 1990: Oregon Desert Sri Yantra (Fig. 3-6) In the summer of 1990, a group of friends, one of my sons and I went to a remote alkali lake bed in the high desert of southeast Oregon to inscribe a large Sri Yantra in the earth. It was to contain a central point large enough to live in. The site was chosen because of its beauty and remoteness. Almost no one, except a few ranchers, ever went there. Inscribing lines in the alkali surface would not disturb any vegetation and it would be a transitory event, eventually disappearing back into the surface through the natural action of wind and the occasional water that floods the lake bed every few years. The design was made without machines or modern tools except binoculars and a simple hand plow. We used only ancient principles of geometry and long wires and sharpened poles as tools. When completed it was 1/4 mile across, covered over forty acres and contained over thirteen miles of lines. The lines, plowed with an old fashioned garden cultivator pulled by three crew members and steered by the fourth, were about four inches deep with the hard alkali crusted dirt cast to both sides of the furrow. During construction, we were careful to minimize the disturbances to the land. We chose to walk several miles daily from camp to the site rather than use vehicles, and refrained from using other motorized devices such as a tiller. We did not want to leave tracks or other marks, not to preserve anonymity but out of respect for the purity of the process. Construction of the Sri Yantra took ten days to complete. As soon as the last line of the design was plowed, heavy clouds began to collect in the south. Within an hour, our valley was filled with high winds, intense lightning strikes and about 1/2 inch of rain. The result of this storm was that all traces and tracks from our working were dissolved. Like a finished painting, it was as if the surface had been varnished. Remarkably, the lightning and the rain were limited only to the small valley where we were working, a fact that was the source of much speculation by a nearby rancher who wanted the rain on his land. In the three weeks that followed, I lived in the nine-foot central circle of the Sri Yantra. During that period and on several occasions during the following years, other people and I observed remarkable changes in the workings of Nature within the design and in the valley where it was situated. One of the more interesting subjective changes was a modification of the ¡§feeling¡¨ within the valley. While a difficult parameter to describe or measure, this change in feeling was noted by ranchers and other people who have known the area for a long time. People reported experiencing qualities of energetic peacefulness, harmony with nature and enhanced intuition when they were in the design and valley. Another influence was a radical change in the quality of meditation that would repeatedly occur if individuals moved a few feet out of the central circle into the innermost triangle of the design or vice versa. Changes in the environment were also observed. Within the design, which had been inscribed in highly alkaline silt, incapable of supporting any kind of vegetation, there were remarkable changes in the direction of increased fertility. Two years after construction, even though the lines were disappearing, the structure of the soil had changed from a highly compacted mixture of silt and salts to a loose, crumbly soil that smelled and tasted more like normal soil. The surface of the soil was also significantly changed. Instead of the flat, layered and often cracked surface that had characterized the lake bed before inscribing the Sri Yantra, the surface became ¡§rumpled;¡¨ formed into a three dimensional configuration of regular ridges and valleys that arranged themselves in the pattern of hexagonal close packing, much like an egg carton. The pattern was caused by modification of the surface soil into a physically expanded, more adhesive and resilient material. Both of the soil changes were due to an extraordinary proliferation of soil microorganisms and the resulting increase in soil organic matter. The soil changes were limited to the forty or so acres of the design and were most pronounced in its center. In other respects, the entire fifty square mile valley was different. The ranchers noticed a continued increase in the valley¡¦s rainfall. This was accompanied by increased vegetative growth, as well as increased populations of several plants and three animals species that were not previously common in the valley. Because of these observations, I began to speculate about possible mechanisms by which the geometric structures might bring about change. The most interesting observation was that there appeared to be an inverse correlation between the gradual disappearance of the design as it melted back into the lakebed and the increase in the presence or influence of the enlivened laws of Nature. Other analogous situations seem to exist as in Homeopathy, where increasing levels of dilution are said to represent or impart increasing levels of strength. An even more striking parallel may exist with the principal of Sangyama. Sangyama, as described by the Indian Rishi, Patanjali, is a process in which the mind generates an impulse at the deepest level of consciousness and then allows that impulse to settle back into the field of pure undifferentiated consciousness from which it had been drawn. The result of this process is the appearance of a new impulse that has enormous power and direct support of fundamental forces of Nature. The construction of the Sri Yantra was also accompanied by other events that gave rise to new understandings about how Nature might operate. Going into the valley for the first time, I was driving the converted bus and towing a pickup truck. We stopped and I got out to open a barbed wire gate. Sitting on the gatepost was an adult golden eagle. The eagle looked at me squarely, swished its tail back and forth several times, dropped a tail feather and flew off. In the next several weeks, I had occasion to go through the same gate many times and there was no eagle. Then, on my homeward trip, as I passed through the gate for the last time, a golden eagle was sitting on the same gatepost. It waited for me to get out of the bus, looked at me squarely, swished its tail, dropped another feather and flew off. Back home, several weeks later, the National Guard discovered the Sri Yantra and the media, not knowing its origins or implications, created a greatly exaggerated hoopla. I was in a position of deciding to speak publicly about the project or remain anonymous. In order to clarify the rapidly growing misunderstandings, I decided to speak publicly. Immediately upon making that decision, I walked outside my rural Iowa home and looked up into the sky. Directly above the house were fourteen circling bald eagles. A year later, I had occasion to tell this story to a Vedic scholar. He told me of a traditional yagya, or ceremony, infrequently performed in India to honor the Divine Mother, which is considered to have been successful only if it results in the appearance of an eagle. Finally, these events, related to several Native American elders and medicine people, elicited in-depth explanations of the ways Nature communicates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 So I read bits of the journal articles, obviously those were more of a mathematical appreciation of the complexity of Sri Chakra. I didnt understand the majority of it, ah well; allow me to rant on: I am, not against Shri Chakra- it would be very difficult to worship without it. But what this argument was about was that one needs to understand that the Shri Chakra is somehow associated with Devi before they can discern for themselves and validate any possible effect that may be generated just by its mere presence within one's home. I never suggested the Shri Chakra is powerless, just that it is meaningless [its power goes undefined, and unaccredited] without proper knowledge of it being a symbol of Devi. If for instance you hold a ore of pure gold in your hands [assuming its really big] and you mistake it for pyrite and throw it back- well, you were just a millionaire and well then you were devoid of it. Without knowledge and some potential association with a Meru it is not possible to appreciate its effect as one will not have the capacity to discern it from other variables in one's environment. I never questioned the intrinsic value of the Meru. Back when I saw the brochure for the Meru sale at the Devi Puram site, I was a little shocked at what I had read. It particular statement pricked me and well I responded by completely disagreeing with that statement. I dont know who put it in the brochure and it doesnt matter, I am not suggesting what was written is wrong; but, I reserved the right to disagree. For me personally the statement was completely false, but that is due to what I believe is my training and background in Devi sadhana- surely we all need not conform to one view in Sri Vidya and so I left it at that. I have no affiliation with DB's parampara and it would be stupid of me to comment on a parampara that I obviously dont belong to-what may work for them may just curse me to hell at the end of day. It is Guru Kripa that propels a person in Sadhana as the vidya they trasnsfer is the first true manifestation of Devi- so for anyone who follows that particular recension of Sri Vidya its possibly acceptable to just keep a Meru and not do ritualistic worship to it. I dont know. I just found that one statement to be strange and that is just a personal opinion, I am not out there to prove or debase any notion, person, idea or practice. One of the earlier posts of mine got edited by DB (possibly) because I think someone thought I was ridiculing that particular statement. I just found it strange and was expressing my perception of it using a very lame example- apologies for any offence but that was my impression! ganpra <ganpra Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 9:54:44 PM Re: Results with Devipuram Maha Merus? , kartik gaurav <omkaaraya@. ...> wrote: > > > I think I had mentioned the term " bio-energy " as being mumbo jumbo. GP those were commercial sites no? ____________ _________ _________ _ First one is commercial, but the 2nd one (scholarly, peer reviewed article) is not. I also read a looooooong word document, where the person had drawn several figures of " spiritual significance " on vast areas of land. The person had also drawn a ~ 1/4 mile wide and observed (interviewing the local resident population on changes they felt and also the atmospheric and other behavior) its effects on the environment. It was not scientifically backed up, but an interesting read. Here is the part about 1/4 mile wide Sri Yantra in Oregon desert. It is rather loooooooooooong. ____________ _________ _________ „¦ 1995-2003 Bill Witherspoon All rights reserved. [One can look up the name of the author and find this article in full] II 1990: Oregon Desert Sri Yantra (Fig. 3-6) In the summer of 1990, a group of friends, one of my sons and I went to a remote alkali lake bed in the high desert of southeast Oregon to inscribe a large Sri Yantra in the earth. It was to contain a central point large enough to live in. The site was chosen because of its beauty and remoteness. Almost no one, except a few ranchers, ever went there. Inscribing lines in the alkali surface would not disturb any vegetation and it would be a transitory event, eventually disappearing back into the surface through the natural action of wind and the occasional water that floods the lake bed every few years. The design was made without machines or modern tools except binoculars and a simple hand plow. We used only ancient principles of geometry and long wires and sharpened poles as tools. When completed it was 1/4 mile across, covered over forty acres and contained over thirteen miles of lines. The lines, plowed with an old fashioned garden cultivator pulled by three crew members and steered by the fourth, were about four inches deep with the hard alkali crusted dirt cast to both sides of the furrow. During construction, we were careful to minimize the disturbances to the land. We chose to walk several miles daily from camp to the site rather than use vehicles, and refrained from using other motorized devices such as a tiller. We did not want to leave tracks or other marks, not to preserve anonymity but out of respect for the purity of the process. Construction of the Sri Yantra took ten days to complete. As soon as the last line of the design was plowed, heavy clouds began to collect in the south. Within an hour, our valley was filled with high winds, intense lightning strikes and about 1/2 inch of rain. The result of this storm was that all traces and tracks from our working were dissolved. Like a finished painting, it was as if the surface had been varnished. Remarkably, the lightning and the rain were limited only to the small valley where we were working, a fact that was the source of much speculation by a nearby rancher who wanted the rain on his land. In the three weeks that followed, I lived in the nine-foot central circle of the Sri Yantra. During that period and on several occasions during the following years, other people and I observed remarkable changes in the workings of Nature within the design and in the valley where it was situated. One of the more interesting subjective changes was a modification of the ¡§feeling¡¨ within the valley. While a difficult parameter to describe or measure, this change in feeling was noted by ranchers and other people who have known the area for a long time. People reported experiencing qualities of energetic peacefulness, harmony with nature and enhanced intuition when they were in the design and valley. Another influence was a radical change in the quality of meditation that would repeatedly occur if individuals moved a few feet out of the central circle into the innermost triangle of the design or vice versa. Changes in the environment were also observed. Within the design, which had been inscribed in highly alkaline silt, incapable of supporting any kind of vegetation, there were remarkable changes in the direction of increased fertility. Two years after construction, even though the lines were disappearing, the structure of the soil had changed from a highly compacted mixture of silt and salts to a loose, crumbly soil that smelled and tasted more like normal soil. The surface of the soil was also significantly changed. Instead of the flat, layered and often cracked surface that had characterized the lake bed before inscribing the Sri Yantra, the surface became ¡§rumpled;¡¨ formed into a three dimensional configuration of regular ridges and valleys that arranged themselves in the pattern of hexagonal close packing, much like an egg carton. The pattern was caused by modification of the surface soil into a physically expanded, more adhesive and resilient material. Both of the soil changes were due to an extraordinary proliferation of soil microorganisms and the resulting increase in soil organic matter. The soil changes were limited to the forty or so acres of the design and were most pronounced in its center. In other respects, the entire fifty square mile valley was different. The ranchers noticed a continued increase in the valley¡¦s rainfall. This was accompanied by increased vegetative growth, as well as increased populations of several plants and three animals species that were not previously common in the valley. Because of these observations, I began to speculate about possible mechanisms by which the geometric structures might bring about change. The most interesting observation was that there appeared to be an inverse correlation between the gradual disappearance of the design as it melted back into the lakebed and the increase in the presence or influence of the enlivened laws of Nature. Other analogous situations seem to exist as in Homeopathy, where increasing levels of dilution are said to represent or impart increasing levels of strength. An even more striking parallel may exist with the principal of Sangyama. Sangyama, as described by the Indian Rishi, Patanjali, is a process in which the mind generates an impulse at the deepest level of consciousness and then allows that impulse to settle back into the field of pure undifferentiated consciousness from which it had been drawn. The result of this process is the appearance of a new impulse that has enormous power and direct support of fundamental forces of Nature. The construction of the Sri Yantra was also accompanied by other events that gave rise to new understandings about how Nature might operate. Going into the valley for the first time, I was driving the converted bus and towing a pickup truck. We stopped and I got out to open a barbed wire gate. Sitting on the gatepost was an adult golden eagle. The eagle looked at me squarely, swished its tail back and forth several times, dropped a tail feather and flew off. In the next several weeks, I had occasion to go through the same gate many times and there was no eagle. Then, on my homeward trip, as I passed through the gate for the last time, a golden eagle was sitting on the same gatepost. It waited for me to get out of the bus, looked at me squarely, swished its tail, dropped another feather and flew off. Back home, several weeks later, the National Guard discovered the Sri Yantra and the media, not knowing its origins or implications, created a greatly exaggerated hoopla. I was in a position of deciding to speak publicly about the project or remain anonymous. In order to clarify the rapidly growing misunderstandings, I decided to speak publicly. Immediately upon making that decision, I walked outside my rural Iowa home and looked up into the sky. Directly above the house were fourteen circling bald eagles. A year later, I had occasion to tell this story to a Vedic scholar. He told me of a traditional yagya, or ceremony, infrequently performed in India to honor the Divine Mother, which is considered to have been successful only if it results in the appearance of an eagle. Finally, these events, related to several Native American elders and medicine people, elicited in-depth explanations of the ways Nature communicates. <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq {margin:4;} --> Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 This is not about Maha Meru. I am very happy to find in Sri Kartik Gaurav either a fellow Geologist or some one who has some association with Geological Sciences. I just want to add that Fool's Gold is a synonym for Iron Pyrite. There were many who used to mistake it for gold until the techniques of gold assaying and other identification techniques developed and it became easier to distinguish gold from pyrite. kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: So I read bits of the journal articles, obviously those were more of a mathematical appreciation of the complexity of Sri Chakra. I didnt understand the majority of it, ah well; allow me to rant on: I am, not against Shri Chakra- it would be very difficult to worship without it. But what this argument was about was that one needs to understand that the Shri Chakra is somehow associated with Devi before they can discern for themselves and validate any possible effect that may be generated just by its mere presence within one's home. I never suggested the Shri Chakra is powerless, just that it is meaningless [its power goes undefined, and unaccredited] without proper knowledge of it being a symbol of Devi. If for instance you hold a ore of pure gold in your hands [assuming its really big] and you mistake it for pyrite and throw it back- well, you were just a millionaire and well then you were devoid of it. Without knowledge and some potential association with a Meru it is not possible to appreciate its effect as one will not have the capacity to discern it from other variables in one's environment. I never questioned the intrinsic value of the Meru. Back when I saw the brochure for the Meru sale at the Devi Puram site, I was a little shocked at what I had read. It particular statement pricked me and well I responded by completely disagreeing with that statement. I dont know who put it in the brochure and it doesnt matter, I am not suggesting what was written is wrong; but, I reserved the right to disagree. For me personally the statement was completely false, but that is due to what I believe is my training and background in Devi sadhana- surely we all need not conform to one view in Sri Vidya and so I left it at that. I have no affiliation with DB's parampara and it would be stupid of me to comment on a parampara that I obviously dont belong to-what may work for them may just curse me to hell at the end of day. It is Guru Kripa that propels a person in Sadhana as the vidya they trasnsfer is the first true manifestation of Devi- so for anyone who follows that particular recension of Sri Vidya its possibly acceptable to just keep a Meru and not do ritualistic worship to it. I dont know. I just found that one statement to be strange and that is just a personal opinion, I am not out there to prove or debase any notion, person, idea or practice. One of the earlier posts of mine got edited by DB (possibly) because I think someone thought I was ridiculing that particular statement. I just found it strange and was expressing my perception of it using a very lame example- apologies for any offence but that was my impression! ganpra <ganpra Tuesday, 20 March, 2007 9:54:44 PM Re: Results with Devipuram Maha Merus? , kartik gaurav <omkaaraya@. ..> wrote: > > > I think I had mentioned the term " bio-energy " as being mumbo jumbo. GP those were commercial sites no? ____________ _________ _________ _ First one is commercial, but the 2nd one (scholarly, peer reviewed article) is not. I also read a looooooong word document, where the person had drawn several figures of " spiritual significance " on vast areas of land. The person had also drawn a ~ 1/4 mile wide and observed (interviewing the local resident population on changes they felt and also the atmospheric and other behavior) its effects on the environment. It was not scientifically backed up, but an interesting read. Here is the part about 1/4 mile wide Sri Yantra in Oregon desert. It is rather loooooooooooong. ____________ _________ _________ „¦ 1995-2003 Bill Witherspoon All rights reserved. [One can look up the name of the author and find this article in full] II 1990: Oregon Desert Sri Yantra (Fig. 3-6) In the summer of 1990, a group of friends, one of my sons and I went to a remote alkali lake bed in the high desert of southeast Oregon to inscribe a large Sri Yantra in the earth. It was to contain a central point large enough to live in. The site was chosen because of its beauty and remoteness. Almost no one, except a few ranchers, ever went there. Inscribing lines in the alkali surface would not disturb any vegetation and it would be a transitory event, eventually disappearing back into the surface through the natural action of wind and the occasional water that floods the lake bed every few years. The design was made without machines or modern tools except binoculars and a simple hand plow. We used only ancient principles of geometry and long wires and sharpened poles as tools. When completed it was 1/4 mile across, covered over forty acres and contained over thirteen miles of lines. The lines, plowed with an old fashioned garden cultivator pulled by three crew members and steered by the fourth, were about four inches deep with the hard alkali crusted dirt cast to both sides of the furrow. During construction, we were careful to minimize the disturbances to the land. We chose to walk several miles daily from camp to the site rather than use vehicles, and refrained from using other motorized devices such as a tiller. We did not want to leave tracks or other marks, not to preserve anonymity but out of respect for the purity of the process. Construction of the Sri Yantra took ten days to complete. As soon as the last line of the design was plowed, heavy clouds began to collect in the south. Within an hour, our valley was filled with high winds, intense lightning strikes and about 1/2 inch of rain. The result of this storm was that all traces and tracks from our working were dissolved. Like a finished painting, it was as if the surface had been varnished. Remarkably, the lightning and the rain were limited only to the small valley where we were working, a fact that was the source of much speculation by a nearby rancher who wanted the rain on his land. In the three weeks that followed, I lived in the nine-foot central circle of the Sri Yantra. During that period and on several occasions during the following years, other people and I observed remarkable changes in the workings of Nature within the design and in the valley where it was situated. One of the more interesting subjective changes was a modification of the ¡§feeling¡¨ within the valley. While a difficult parameter to describe or measure, this change in feeling was noted by ranchers and other people who have known the area for a long time. People reported experiencing qualities of energetic peacefulness, harmony with nature and enhanced intuition when they were in the design and valley. Another influence was a radical change in the quality of meditation that would repeatedly occur if individuals moved a few feet out of the central circle into the innermost triangle of the design or vice versa. Changes in the environment were also observed. Within the design, which had been inscribed in highly alkaline silt, incapable of supporting any kind of vegetation, there were remarkable changes in the direction of increased fertility. Two years after construction, even though the lines were disappearing, the structure of the soil had changed from a highly compacted mixture of silt and salts to a loose, crumbly soil that smelled and tasted more like normal soil. The surface of the soil was also significantly changed. Instead of the flat, layered and often cracked surface that had characterized the lake bed before inscribing the Sri Yantra, the surface became ¡§rumpled;¡¨ formed into a three dimensional configuration of regular ridges and valleys that arranged themselves in the pattern of hexagonal close packing, much like an egg carton. The pattern was caused by modification of the surface soil into a physically expanded, more adhesive and resilient material. Both of the soil changes were due to an extraordinary proliferation of soil microorganisms and the resulting increase in soil organic matter. The soil changes were limited to the forty or so acres of the design and were most pronounced in its center. In other respects, the entire fifty square mile valley was different. The ranchers noticed a continued increase in the valley¡¦s rainfall. This was accompanied by increased vegetative growth, as well as increased populations of several plants and three animals species that were not previously common in the valley. Because of these observations, I began to speculate about possible mechanisms by which the geometric structures might bring about change. The most interesting observation was that there appeared to be an inverse correlation between the gradual disappearance of the design as it melted back into the lakebed and the increase in the presence or influence of the enlivened laws of Nature. Other analogous situations seem to exist as in Homeopathy, where increasing levels of dilution are said to represent or impart increasing levels of strength. An even more striking parallel may exist with the principal of Sangyama. Sangyama, as described by the Indian Rishi, Patanjali, is a process in which the mind generates an impulse at the deepest level of consciousness and then allows that impulse to settle back into the field of pure undifferentiated consciousness from which it had been drawn. The result of this process is the appearance of a new impulse that has enormous power and direct support of fundamental forces of Nature. The construction of the Sri Yantra was also accompanied by other events that gave rise to new understandings about how Nature might operate. Going into the valley for the first time, I was driving the converted bus and towing a pickup truck. We stopped and I got out to open a barbed wire gate. Sitting on the gatepost was an adult golden eagle. The eagle looked at me squarely, swished its tail back and forth several times, dropped a tail feather and flew off. In the next several weeks, I had occasion to go through the same gate many times and there was no eagle. Then, on my homeward trip, as I passed through the gate for the last time, a golden eagle was sitting on the same gatepost. It waited for me to get out of the bus, looked at me squarely, swished its tail, dropped another feather and flew off. Back home, several weeks later, the National Guard discovered the Sri Yantra and the media, not knowing its origins or implications, created a greatly exaggerated hoopla. I was in a position of deciding to speak publicly about the project or remain anonymous. In order to clarify the rapidly growing misunderstandings, I decided to speak publicly. Immediately upon making that decision, I walked outside my rural Iowa home and looked up into the sky. Directly above the house were fourteen circling bald eagles. A year later, I had occasion to tell this story to a Vedic scholar. He told me of a traditional yagya, or ceremony, infrequently performed in India to honor the Divine Mother, which is considered to have been successful only if it results in the appearance of an eagle. Finally, these events, related to several Native American elders and medicine people, elicited in-depth explanations of the ways Nature communicates. <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a { text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc { background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o {font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq {margin:4;} --> Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Devi_B: Wanna-be is a man, not a woman. He did not purchase a Meru, nor was he at the Mahakumbaabhishekam at Devipuram, nor did he receive diksa from Sri Amritananda. All of that was a pretense, apparently set up as an excuse to attack the perceived commercialism of the Meru sales. Lhuny: I was taken in because I wanted to be there, chatting with Guruji and getting abhishekam. What a great experience that would have been for someone. I do plan to go to Devipuram for next Mahashivaratri however. I am still waiting on my small Meru. That's what I thought the original poster was noting, that they haven't either been mailed or they are taking a long time. But it's okay as I donated not for the meru but to be a small part of the Mahakumbhabhishekam. At any rate, there's a place for trolls - in the earth. (JK ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Well since all things are possible under the sun, some will find dirty gold and appreciate it, and others will hold a meru chakra and think of Devi quite spontaneously. Also, these symbols are gifts of rememberance, and their mere locale is a reminder even if one is not in the state of mind to be reminded. A yantra is the energy form of the devata. Thus one benefits if merely from sight alone, as there is no separation between oneself and the Mother ever. Maybe the intellectual aspects won't come, but sometimes one sees a symbol and then later it makes a connection. So all things are possible. I never suggested the Shri Chakra is powerless, just that it is meaningless [its power goes undefined, and unaccredited] without proper knowledge of it being a symbol of Devi. If for instance you hold a ore of pure gold in your hands [assuming its really big] and you mistake it for pyrite and throw it back- well, you were just a millionaire and well then you were devoid of it. Without knowledge and some potential association with a Meru it is not possible to appreciate its effect as one will not have the capacity to discern it from other variables in one's environment. I never questioned the intrinsic value of the Meru. ----Actually you are questioning the 'intrinsic' value just not the 'ultimate' value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta wrote: " ...Luckily, I received a sweet letter from Mahahradanatha just this morning detailing my self and insecurities (as perceived by him) just this morning. Would be happy to share it with you if it doesn't melt my hard drive first. " > DB, flaws? I'm shocked. ;-} How can something sweet melt your hard drive? I'm popping in to wish you a Happy Equinox. The Goddess arises, the land will flower. Blessings, pr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Dear all: I have a naggng suspecion that someone is using the account of an Indian Gentleman who has been banned by his Guru from using ANY mantra to create confusion and unnecessary debate in this group. As someone said it may very well be a " she " . A dear old frend. B the way I am very happy to announce that the person has ecided that DB is my deciple!! woweeeeeeeeeeeeee I am a Gooroooooooo now!! (I would have been reall honoed if B were my eile). Bu nfortunatly Amritananda Natha initted him. Do you guys think I should protest to Amrita??*smile* We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.