Guest guest Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Can anyone please comment on the Shakthi Pranava mantra " Eeem " . I know it is the basic seed sound in many of the other Shakthi bijas such as Hreem, Sreem, Kleem. I know that it is heard in advanced meditation as the primordial sound by the Shaktha (similar to how the Sanyasi experiences the sound of the Pranava " Aum_ " ). Thank you. RU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Good bit written on it on the Shakti Sadhana website under Kamala Mahavidya. On Behalf Of rumakanthan Sunday, March 25, 2007 4:14 PM Shakthi Pranava Can anyone please comment on the Shakthi Pranava mantra " Eeem " . I know it is the basic seed sound in many of the other Shakthi bijas such as Hreem, Sreem, Kleem. I know that it is heard in advanced meditation as the primordial sound by the Shaktha (similar to how the Sanyasi experiences the sound of the Pranava " Aum_ " ). Thank you. RU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 I never knew this was called a " Shakti Pranava " bija, i guess you learn something new everyday. There is some information I have about this particular bija but it is in reference to it as being a component of the Gupta ShodashAkshari which can be found in the siddha yamala. This is probably the most effective variant of ShodashAksharI I have come across in my whole life- Within the aforementioned context the bija is known as the maha yoni bija and you can say it is the condensation of the message of the Rastri Devi sukta found in Atharva Veda as the upadesha of this particular bija is very similar to the message given in this particular sukta- that all life comes from a primary source, all supreme manifestations of the divine are augmented with a quality which arises from this very same source and that it is the will/concious decision of this source which causes liberation and not any effort on our part. But rather the efforts we make are to cause a favourable decision. (This is just a personal observation.) This source is later suggested as being Tripura and the dhyana of her on the pancha bhuta asana and such are broken down as elements of this very shodashAkshari. The bija you mention is the transition from Shiva to the complete Tripura (...I think). Take for instance the major desire most tantric practitioners have: Very loose definitions. Dharma- fullfillment of all obligations kAma- fullfillment of all desires Artha- Complete Self actualization Moksha- Freedom from limitation These are broken down into chakras i.e. Dharma chakra, but in the explanations instead of kAma chakra there is karma chakra- different bijas within the maha mantra are designanted as catalysts that cause the practitioner to penetrate through and get released from these chakras. There are walks which are given in these states as well: bhu, khema, hema and para [walk on earth, walk on heavens, walk on light?? and walk on highest/supreme] these are the various capacities in which one realizes Tripura through the maha mantra. The Maha Yoni bija is just a component of this much larger system. The anumAna you get when you break free of Dharma chakra is that you are nAtha of bhucharI, and so forth. If you look at Vamakeshwari Tantra and other more popular Sri Vidya tantras they will give totally different constructs for the shodashAkshari and therefore their explanations will also be radically different. I feel that this particular recension is best, due to its simplicity. I hate nyasas lol and most other systems tend to have endless amounts of them. The recitation of this mantra is avidya without following protocol, this is why I think it is meaningless to use bijokta mantras without having proper explanations. Books like Sharada Tilaka and Mantra Mahodadhi are very limited as they dont really give formulations and procedure via which one attains mukti through mantra sadhana- recitation and such of mantras is just the first step, mastering ajapa, anahata nada and anuswara are the proceeding steps. I havent come across any texts which give this type of information. This is why it is said that without diksha a mantra is only avidya because you dont know how to use it properly for muktik purposes. If a person just wants to actualize their devotion to Bhagawati and get a close affinity to her then why not do namasmarana? I personally do more namasmarana than I do japa to such vidyas, it is much more easier, way simpler and for me, I dont have to worry about protocol when doing nAmasmarana. I hope this helps and I still think Jaya Bhavani is a better mantra than complicated Bijas You dont really have to worry about maintaing mantric snana and retaining such high levels of purity for just namasmarana...at least I think so. rumakanthan <rumakanthan Monday, 26 March, 2007 11:43:28 AM Shakthi Pranava Can anyone please comment on the Shakthi Pranava mantra " Eeem " . I know it is the basic seed sound in many of the other Shakthi bijas such as Hreem, Sreem, Kleem. I know that it is heard in advanced meditation as the primordial sound by the Shaktha (similar to how the Sanyasi experiences the sound of the Pranava " Aum_ " ). Thank you. RU Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Thank you for the detailed and helpful explanation. Yes, this is called the Shakthi Pranava as well as the Eekshanam. As one progresses in Mahashodasi Japam, one starts to hear/feel the continual sound of " EEEEEEE..... " much like the Pranava which is likened to " MMMMMM... " . Ultimately, there is no difference between the two sounds as they both represent the primordial " buzz " of manifestation. After one can hear the Eekshanam, one may actual get initiation into the Shakthi Pranava from a guru. In it's mantra form, the " E " syllable is stressed for a certain count and the " M " syllable is added and stressed to a certain count. The Makutam for the mantra is given as well. I had not found much literature on it except in the Shakthi Sadhana website under Kamala Vidya, but the explanation was brief..which is why I asked. Thank you all again. RU --- kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: > I never knew this was called a " Shakti Pranava " > bija, i guess you learn something new everyday. > There is some information I have about this > particular bija but it is in reference to it as > being a component of the Gupta ShodashAkshari which > can be found in the siddha yamala. This is probably > the most effective variant of ShodashAksharI I have > come across in my whole life- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 It's great fun to intellectualize the process. But there's no amount of intellectual knowledge about this syllable that will do justice. On Behalf Of Ramanan Umakanthan Monday, March 26, 2007 12:44 AM Re: Shakthi Pranava Thank you for the detailed and helpful explanation. Yes, this is called the Shakthi Pranava as well as the Eekshanam. As one progresses in Mahashodasi Japam, one starts to hear/feel the continual sound of " EEEEEEE..... " much like the Pranava which is likened to " MMMMMM... " . Ultimately, there is no difference between the two sounds as they both represent the primordial " buzz " of manifestation. After one can hear the Eekshanam, one may actual get initiation into the Shakthi Pranava from a guru. In it's mantra form, the " E " syllable is stressed for a certain count and the " M " syllable is added and stressed to a certain count. The Makutam for the mantra is given as well. I had not found much literature on it except in the Shakthi Sadhana website under Kamala Vidya, but the explanation was brief..which is why I asked. Thank you all again. RU --- kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: > I never knew this was called a " Shakti Pranava " > bija, i guess you learn something new everyday. > There is some information I have about this > particular bija but it is in reference to it as > being a component of the Gupta ShodashAkshari which > can be found in the siddha yamala. This is probably > the most effective variant of ShodashAksharI I have > come across in my whole life- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 First there is ah and uh, the ih and ee, shakti cannot exist without shiva, because shakti is merely the self referencial flow of shiva, thus first shiva says ahhhhhhh, I am here, then shakti say, eeeeee, you are there. It's all spacelikeness meeting spacelikeness and curving on spacelikeness, ayeeee! On Behalf Of llundrub Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:21 PM RE: Shakthi Pranava Good bit written on it on the Shakti Sadhana website under Kamala Mahavidya. On Behalf Of rumakanthan Sunday, March 25, 2007 4:14 PM Shakthi Pranava Can anyone please comment on the Shakthi Pranava mantra " Eeem " . I know it is the basic seed sound in many of the other Shakthi bijas such as Hreem, Sreem, Kleem. I know that it is heard in advanced meditation as the primordial sound by the Shaktha (similar to how the Sanyasi experiences the sound of the Pranava " Aum_ " ). Thank you. RU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Wasn't intellectualizing the process at all. Just wanted to see if if literature had been written on it based on others' experiences for my personal edification. --- llundrub <llundrub wrote: > It's great fun to intellectualize the process. But > there's no amount of > intellectual knowledge about this syllable that will > do justice. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 If this is what you practice within your parampara then I will shut up. But what you have just said does not make any sense in light of most conventional scripture. Maybe we probably differ in the definition of of this term " intellectual knowledge " but the syllable in the context of a mantra is knowledge itself and it takes a significant degree of " intellectualizing " to make a formal practice of its japa. Shabdha becomes Spandha, Spandha becomes Jyotih, Jyotih becomes Amrita and Amrita becomes Moksha. Stuff like this aint jibberish, this very information saved me from going insane. without talking about myself let me give you a loose example: Bijas such as the one being discussed cause a variety of different effects to one who is siddha in it- the bhuchara is a phase where the body becomes really hot and heavy, ones ego increases, their intellectual capacity and general discerning faculities are reduced, they achieve a lot more strength than what they'd normally have and they become very emotionally sensitive [not cry baby, but more like very readily angered]. This is the effect of bhu tattva and when it awakens through mantras the mantra causes these very common bhu based effects. Even devi gita, cites some this phenomena as the first anumAna of mantra siddhi. Whatever one says in this state, no matter how lame or impossible it may be, it will come to pass. Person who reaches this state without knowing it [HIGHLY UNLIKELY] will probably be a little shocked about what is happening, if they are ill prepared for it then they become hell bound since if they start saying God awful things to people in their fits of rage then what is going to happen is that the negative events they cause by the actualization of their speech will become karma on their part. Many saints had this issue, it is a very high level of siddhi within a mantra and takes normally a decade of austere practice before it is reached. Good example is Durvasa who was Natha of this state, if one readings the description itihAsa gives of this great upAsaka and nAtha of Sri Vidya tradition, one will find a great deal of information about the characteristics of an individual siddha in the bhu state. Upon complete mastery one breaks free of dharma chakra. Diksha in Varahi vidya from a true Natha can cause these effects to occur straight away; well it should, not sure how many people actually experience it. So what was mentioned was not intellectualizing it but rather it was a synergy of the convictions and experiences of nAthas from a variety of different paramparas, all merged to form huge collections of samhitas such as the yamalas. It would be very hard to digest the notion that siddha yamala or rudra yamala is the work and collected experiences of one individual, it is probably a whole series of works and realizations of various different nAthas probably of different paramparas. I would assume you're not one to really give a damn but what you are saying is in direct violation of scripture which I consider to be the holiest of holy [i.e Shiva Samhita, Kaulanirnaya tantra and Netra tantra as just commonly known examples]. Shiva Samhita actually states that liberation comes only when one takes shelter in true knowledge, Netra tantra says that the highest achievement and siddhi of Shiva is symbolized as his third eye which is the ability to burn away delusion using intellect/vigyana- very good story of this is when HE barbecued Manmatha. I am going to keep my silence from now, I dont feel all that comfortable engaging any further in this discussion. Let us all take shelter in SadyojataH, preferably with vegetarian marshmallows on a stick llundrub <llundrub Tuesday, 27 March, 2007 12:21:44 AM RE: Shakthi Pranava It's great fun to intellectualize the process. But there's no amount of intellectual knowledge about this syllable that will do justice. [] On Behalf Of Ramanan Umakanthan Monday, March 26, 2007 12:44 AM Re: Shakthi Pranava Thank you for the detailed and helpful explanation. Yes, this is called the Shakthi Pranava as well as the Eekshanam. As one progresses in Mahashodasi Japam, one starts to hear/feel the continual sound of " EEEEEEE.... . " much like the Pranava which is likened to " MMMMMM... " . Ultimately, there is no difference between the two sounds as they both represent the primordial " buzz " of manifestation. After one can hear the Eekshanam, one may actual get initiation into the Shakthi Pranava from a guru. In it's mantra form, the " E " syllable is stressed for a certain count and the " M " syllable is added and stressed to a certain count. The Makutam for the mantra is given as well. I had not found much literature on it except in the Shakthi Sadhana website under Kamala Vidya, but the explanation was brief..which is why I asked. Thank you all again. RU --- kartik gaurav <omkaaraya .au> wrote: > I never knew this was called a " Shakti Pranava " > bija, i guess you learn something new everyday. > There is some information I have about this > particular bija but it is in reference to it as > being a component of the Gupta ShodashAkshari which > can be found in the siddha yamala. This is probably > the most effective variant of ShodashAksharI I have > come across in my whole life- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 " taam padminIM IMsharanamaham prapadye " - sree sooktha = I take refuge in Padmini who is IM. IM is IMHO the vaideeka pranava. regarding what is now called pranava - OM- I have not found any reference in Vedas. (maybe I am wrong). The reference I have seen is in patanjali's yoga sootra - " sa shabdo pranava " .=That sound is Panava. when OM came to be accepted as pranava is unknown. Maybe it is its connection with Yoga that made ppl say that women should not recite it. I am not sure. the shakti pranava - as far as i know is - aiM hrIM shrIM - and it is referred to in parashurama kalpasootra - folowd by many in the south of india for SV upasana - as " sarwatra tritaarI samyogam " = tritaree shall be added everywhere(in the begining) Ramanan Umakanthan <rumakanthan wrote: Thank you for the detailed and helpful explanation. Yes, this is called the Shakthi Pranava as well as the Eekshanam. As one progresses in Mahashodasi Japam, one starts to hear/feel the continual sound of " EEEEEEE..... " much like the Pranava which is likened to " MMMMMM... " . Ultimately, there is no difference between the two sounds as they both represent the primordial " buzz " of manifestation. After one can hear the Eekshanam, one may actual get initiation into the Shakthi Pranava from a guru. In it's mantra form, the " E " syllable is stressed for a certain count and the " M " syllable is added and stressed to a certain count. The Makutam for the mantra is given as well. I had not found much literature on it except in the Shakthi Sadhana website under Kamala Vidya, but the explanation was brief..which is why I asked. Thank you all again. RU --- kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: > I never knew this was called a " Shakti Pranava " > bija, i guess you learn something new everyday. > There is some information I have about this > particular bija but it is in reference to it as > being a component of the Gupta ShodashAkshari which > can be found in the siddha yamala. This is probably > the most effective variant of ShodashAksharI I have > come across in my whole life- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Mail for Mobile. Get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Thank you. This is an excellent, accurate and informative discourse on the progression of mantra siddhi. You have used very good examples as well. --- kartik gaurav <omkaaraya wrote: > If this is what you practice within your parampara > then I will shut up. But what you have just said > does not make any sense in light of most > conventional scripture. Maybe we probably differ in > the definition of of this term " intellectual > knowledge " but the syllable in the context of a > mantra is knowledge itself and it takes a > significant degree of " intellectualizing " to make a > formal practice of its japa. > > Shabdha becomes Spandha, Spandha becomes Jyotih, > Jyotih becomes Amrita and Amrita becomes Moksha. > Stuff like this aint jibberish, this very > information saved me from going insane. without > talking about myself let me give you a loose > example: > > Bijas such as the one being discussed cause a > variety of different effects to one who is siddha in > it- the bhuchara is a phase where the body becomes > really hot and heavy, ones ego increases, their > intellectual capacity and general discerning > faculities are reduced, they achieve a lot more > strength than what they'd normally have and they > become very emotionally sensitive [not cry baby, but > more like very readily angered]. This is the effect > of bhu tattva and when it awakens through mantras > the mantra causes these very common bhu based > effects. Even devi gita, cites some this phenomena > as the first anumAna of mantra siddhi. Whatever one > says in this state, no matter how lame or impossible > it may be, it will come to pass. > > Person who reaches this state without knowing it > [HIGHLY UNLIKELY] will probably be a little shocked > about what is happening, if they are ill prepared > for it then they become hell bound since if they > start saying God awful things to people in their > fits of rage then what is going to happen is that > the negative events they cause by the actualization > of their speech will become karma on their part. > Many saints had this issue, it is a very high level > of siddhi within a mantra and takes normally a > decade of austere practice before it is reached. > Good example is Durvasa who was Natha of this state, > if one readings the description itihAsa gives of > this great upAsaka and nAtha of Sri Vidya tradition, > one will find a great deal of information about the > characteristics of an individual siddha in the bhu > state. Upon complete mastery one breaks free of > dharma chakra. > Diksha in Varahi vidya from a true Natha can cause > these effects to occur straight away; well it > should, not sure how many people actually experience > it. > > So what was mentioned was not intellectualizing it > but rather it was a synergy of the convictions and > experiences of nAthas from a variety of different > paramparas, all merged to form huge collections of > samhitas such as the yamalas. It would be very hard > to digest the notion that siddha yamala or rudra > yamala is the work and collected experiences of one > individual, it is probably a whole series of works > and realizations of various different nAthas > probably of different paramparas. > > I would assume you're not one to really give a damn > but what you are saying is in direct violation of > scripture which I consider to be the holiest of holy > [i.e Shiva Samhita, Kaulanirnaya tantra and Netra > tantra as just commonly known examples]. Shiva > Samhita actually states that liberation comes only > when one takes shelter in true knowledge, Netra > tantra says that the highest achievement and siddhi > of Shiva is symbolized as his third eye which is the > ability to burn away delusion using > intellect/vigyana- very good story of this is when > HE barbecued Manmatha. > > I am going to keep my silence from now, I dont feel > all that comfortable engaging any further in this > discussion. > > Let us all take shelter in SadyojataH, preferably > with vegetarian marshmallows on a stick > > > llundrub <llundrub > > Tuesday, 27 March, 2007 12:21:44 AM > RE: Shakthi Pranava > > > > > > > It's great fun to intellectualize the > process. But there's no amount of > > intellectual knowledge about this syllable that will > do justice. > > > > > > > [] > > On Behalf Of Ramanan Umakanthan > > Monday, March 26, 2007 12:44 AM > > > > Re: Shakthi Pranava > > > > Thank you for the detailed and helpful explanation. > > Yes, this is called the Shakthi Pranava as well as > the > > Eekshanam. As one progresses in Mahashodasi Japam, > one > > starts to hear/feel the continual sound of > > " EEEEEEE.... . " much like the Pranava which is > likened > > to " MMMMMM... " . Ultimately, there is no difference > > between the two sounds as they both represent the > > primordial " buzz " of manifestation. After one can > hear > > the Eekshanam, one may actual get initiation into > the > > Shakthi Pranava from a guru. In it's mantra form, > the > > " E " syllable is stressed for a certain count and the > > " M " syllable is added and stressed to a certain > count. > > The Makutam for the mantra is given as well. I had > not > > found much literature on it except in the Shakthi > > Sadhana website under Kamala Vidya, but the > > explanation was brief..which is why I asked. Thank > you > > all again. RU > > --- kartik gaurav <omkaaraya .au> wrote: > > > > > I never knew this was called a " Shakti Pranava " > > > bija, i guess you learn something new everyday. > > > There is some information I have about this > > > particular bija but it is in reference to it as > > > being a component of the Gupta ShodashAkshari > which > > > can be found in the siddha yamala. This is > probably > > > the most effective variant of ShodashAksharI I > have > > > come across in my whole life- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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