Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Hey DB: thanks for the links. the info all have provided here has been most beneficial. i am going to order this cd. i have another question for anyone interested in answering.... and maybe this is one of those questions that best answered by The Guru but here is goes... you said the mantras were not overtly revealed, which made me think to ask whether or not it would be inappropriate to chant them overtly in a group setting? or to chant a mantra like the Panchadasi; in a kirtan or some form of a group sadhana? thanks again for all your help. , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta wrote: > > Hi Eric: > > They are not instrumental; there are sublime lyrics, but the mantras > are not overtly revealed. It is devotional music. > > Someone posted an excellent description of the series at Wikipedia: > > http://tinyurl.com/367w7d > > Individual songs from the series frequently appear as selections on > Carnatic albums. In a quick glance through Celextel, however, I found > only one set (2 CDs) that contains the whole series together, sung by > Seetha Rajan: > > http://tinyurl.com/3ce7ck > > I have not heard it, so I cannot vouch for it one way or the other > though I would imagine it's probably great. > > Hope that helps > > DB > > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > wrote: > > > > thank you DB, this is so cool. i want to find out more about this. so > > if i understand correctly Dikshitar's compositions were not only > > instrumental but incorporated the respective mantras to lead One thru > > the Sri Chakra? where i could find an example of how this sounds? > > > > , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Eric: > > > > > > This excerpt on on the great Carnatic composer Dikshitar, from S. > > > Shankaranarayanan's treatise on the Sri Chakra, might be of interest > > > to you in this regard -- and it also adds something of great > > > importance to the initiate/non-initiate conversation in general: > > > > > > " We would not have dealt adequately with the topic of Navavarana Puja > > > if we failed to mention the exquisite Navavarana kirtanas of Sri > > > Muthuswami Dikshitar, celebrated as one of the Music Trinity by the > > > votaries of Karnatic music. > > > > > > " This is not the place to dwell on the soul-enthralling music of > > > Dikshitar and the solid, silent peace it brings down from the high > > > supernals; but it has to be mentioned that -- apart from being a > > > musician and composer of a very high order -- Dikshitar was a great > > > Tantric and a master of mellifluous Sanskrit. > > > > > > " The Tantra Shastra, it has to be remembered, is very catholic in its > > > approach. Maybe it frowns on the unbeliever with its strictures, > > > confounds the critic with its misleading nomenclature, baffles the > > > non-initiate with its codes and conundrums, and laughs at the skeptic > > > with its down-to-earth approach. But to the earnest seeker, it opens > > > the doors wide and makes its treasures accessible -- irrespective of > > > caste, creed or sex. The Veda is prescribed for the first three > > > castes; but the Tantra is for all who aspire. > > > > > > " Normally the worship of Sri Chakra and the Navavarana Puja are for > > > those who are initiated into the Sri Vidya Mantra. But if some people > > > earnestly seek the Divine Mother -- even if they are not initiated -- > > > there should be a way for them to approach her. For the Divine Mother > > > is the Mother of all, of the wise as well as of the idiot, of the > > > initiate as well as the non-initiate, of the Gods as well as the > Asuras. > > > > > > " In Her eyes all are equal and She is equally compassionate toward > > > all. It is not necessary to know the Mantra or Yantra; a sincere > > > devotion and absolute surrender are all that are required. A mother > > > does not pick holes in the loving approach made by her child. As the > > > Tantric feelingly exclaims, if we slip on the ground, the ground is > > > our prop; if we are at fault in dealings with the Divine Mother, She > > > is our sole refuge. > > > > > > " It is to the credit of Dikshitar that -- moved by this true Tantric > > > impulse of catholicity -- he set to music the cardinal principles of > > > Navavarana worship in his gem-like kritis, thus throwing open the > > > treasures of Navavarana Puja to all those who are moved to approach > > > the Divine Mother through devotional music. When these compositions > > > are sung with true devotion, the melodious music makes effective the > > > presence of the goddesses who are the wave vibrations of the infinite > > > ocean of Consciousness-Bliss.[1] > > > > > > [1] There is a unique composition of Dikshitar in Madhyamavati Raga > > > beginning with the words " Sri Raja RajeswarIm. " This deals with the > > > worship of the whole Sri Chakra, enumerating the Nine Chakras with > > > their respective Mantras. " > > > > > > Hope that helps! > > > > > > DB > > > > > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > could anyone here explain a little about Karnatic music and its use? > > > > > > > > , Radhakrishnan J > > > > <jayaarshree@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > About chanting of LSN, SL, LT etc., the traditional view point is > > > > that one must receive it from a guru even for reciting it without > > > > proper nyasa. These compositions are part of mantrashaastra and > can be > > > > used in prayogas for kaamya purposes. Simply acquiring it from a > book > > > > and reciting especially if one wants any of his desires > fulfilled will > > > > be futile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 These are devotional songs. They are for the enjoyment and inspiration of one and all. There are no restrictions on singing/chanting them, as far as I know. I am sure that the more knowledgeable members will correct me if I am wrong on this. DB , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us wrote: > > Hey DB: > > thanks for the links. the info all have provided here has been most > beneficial. i am going to order this cd. i have another question for > anyone interested in answering.... and maybe this is one of those > questions that best answered by The Guru but here is goes... you said > the mantras were not overtly revealed, which made me think to ask > whether or not it would be inappropriate to chant them overtly in a > group setting? or to chant a mantra like the Panchadasi; in a kirtan or some form of a group sadhana? thanks again for all your help. > > > , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Eric: > > > > They are not instrumental; there are sublime lyrics, but the mantras > > are not overtly revealed. It is devotional music. > > > > Someone posted an excellent description of the series at Wikipedia: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/367w7d > > > > Individual songs from the series frequently appear as selections on > > Carnatic albums. In a quick glance through Celextel, however, I found > > only one set (2 CDs) that contains the whole series together, sung by > > Seetha Rajan: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3ce7ck > > > > I have not heard it, so I cannot vouch for it one way or the other > > though I would imagine it's probably great. > > > > Hope that helps > > > > DB > > > > > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > > wrote: > > > > > > thank you DB, this is so cool. i want to find out more about this. so > > > if i understand correctly Dikshitar's compositions were not only > > > instrumental but incorporated the respective mantras to lead One thru > > > the Sri Chakra? where i could find an example of how this sounds? > > > > > > , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Eric: > > > > > > > > This excerpt on on the great Carnatic composer Dikshitar, from S. > > > > Shankaranarayanan's treatise on the Sri Chakra, might be of interest > > > > to you in this regard -- and it also adds something of great > > > > importance to the initiate/non-initiate conversation in general: > > > > > > > > " We would not have dealt adequately with the topic of Navavarana > Puja > > > > if we failed to mention the exquisite Navavarana kirtanas of Sri > > > > Muthuswami Dikshitar, celebrated as one of the Music Trinity by the > > > > votaries of Karnatic music. > > > > > > > > " This is not the place to dwell on the soul-enthralling music of > > > > Dikshitar and the solid, silent peace it brings down from the high > > > > supernals; but it has to be mentioned that -- apart from being a > > > > musician and composer of a very high order -- Dikshitar was a great > > > > Tantric and a master of mellifluous Sanskrit. > > > > > > > > " The Tantra Shastra, it has to be remembered, is very catholic > in its > > > > approach. Maybe it frowns on the unbeliever with its strictures, > > > > confounds the critic with its misleading nomenclature, baffles the > > > > non-initiate with its codes and conundrums, and laughs at the > skeptic > > > > with its down-to-earth approach. But to the earnest seeker, it opens > > > > the doors wide and makes its treasures accessible -- irrespective of > > > > caste, creed or sex. The Veda is prescribed for the first three > > > > castes; but the Tantra is for all who aspire. > > > > > > > > " Normally the worship of Sri Chakra and the Navavarana Puja are for > > > > those who are initiated into the Sri Vidya Mantra. But if some > people > > > > earnestly seek the Divine Mother -- even if they are not > initiated -- > > > > there should be a way for them to approach her. For the Divine > Mother > > > > is the Mother of all, of the wise as well as of the idiot, of the > > > > initiate as well as the non-initiate, of the Gods as well as the > > Asuras. > > > > > > > > " In Her eyes all are equal and She is equally compassionate toward > > > > all. It is not necessary to know the Mantra or Yantra; a sincere > > > > devotion and absolute surrender are all that are required. A mother > > > > does not pick holes in the loving approach made by her child. As the > > > > Tantric feelingly exclaims, if we slip on the ground, the ground is > > > > our prop; if we are at fault in dealings with the Divine Mother, She > > > > is our sole refuge. > > > > > > > > " It is to the credit of Dikshitar that -- moved by this true Tantric > > > > impulse of catholicity -- he set to music the cardinal principles of > > > > Navavarana worship in his gem-like kritis, thus throwing open the > > > > treasures of Navavarana Puja to all those who are moved to approach > > > > the Divine Mother through devotional music. When these compositions > > > > are sung with true devotion, the melodious music makes effective the > > > > presence of the goddesses who are the wave vibrations of the > infinite > > > > ocean of Consciousness-Bliss.[1] > > > > > > > > [1] There is a unique composition of Dikshitar in Madhyamavati Raga > > > > beginning with the words " Sri Raja RajeswarIm. " This deals with the > > > > worship of the whole Sri Chakra, enumerating the Nine Chakras with > > > > their respective Mantras. " > > > > > > > > Hope that helps! > > > > > > > > DB > > > > > > > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > could anyone here explain a little about Karnatic music and > its use? > > > > > > > > > > , Radhakrishnan J > > > > > <jayaarshree@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > About chanting of LSN, SL, LT etc., the traditional view > point is > > > > > that one must receive it from a guru even for reciting it without > > > > > proper nyasa. These compositions are part of mantrashaastra and > > can be > > > > > used in prayogas for kaamya purposes. Simply acquiring it from a > > book > > > > > and reciting especially if one wants any of his desires > > fulfilled will > > > > > be futile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 The following is another source http://tinyurl.com/32uj4a Balaji , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us wrote: > > Hey DB: > > thanks for the links. the info all have provided here has been most > beneficial. i am going to order this cd. i have another question for > anyone interested in answering.... and maybe this is one of those > questions that best answered by The Guru but here is goes... you said > the mantras were not overtly revealed, which made me think to ask > whether or not it would be inappropriate to chant them overtly in a > group setting? or to chant a mantra like the Panchadasi; in a kirtan or some form of a group sadhana? thanks again for all your help. > > > , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Eric: > > > > They are not instrumental; there are sublime lyrics, but the mantras > > are not overtly revealed. It is devotional music. > > > > Someone posted an excellent description of the series at Wikipedia: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/367w7d > > > > Individual songs from the series frequently appear as selections on > > Carnatic albums. In a quick glance through Celextel, however, I found > > only one set (2 CDs) that contains the whole series together, sung by > > Seetha Rajan: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3ce7ck > > > > I have not heard it, so I cannot vouch for it one way or the other > > though I would imagine it's probably great. > > > > Hope that helps > > > > DB > > > > > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > > wrote: > > > > > > thank you DB, this is so cool. i want to find out more about this. so > > > if i understand correctly Dikshitar's compositions were not only > > > instrumental but incorporated the respective mantras to lead One thru > > > the Sri Chakra? where i could find an example of how this sounds? > > > > > > , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Eric: > > > > > > > > This excerpt on on the great Carnatic composer Dikshitar, from S. > > > > Shankaranarayanan's treatise on the Sri Chakra, might be of interest > > > > to you in this regard -- and it also adds something of great > > > > importance to the initiate/non-initiate conversation in general: > > > > > > > > " We would not have dealt adequately with the topic of Navavarana > Puja > > > > if we failed to mention the exquisite Navavarana kirtanas of Sri > > > > Muthuswami Dikshitar, celebrated as one of the Music Trinity by the > > > > votaries of Karnatic music. > > > > > > > > " This is not the place to dwell on the soul-enthralling music of > > > > Dikshitar and the solid, silent peace it brings down from the high > > > > supernals; but it has to be mentioned that -- apart from being a > > > > musician and composer of a very high order -- Dikshitar was a great > > > > Tantric and a master of mellifluous Sanskrit. > > > > > > > > " The Tantra Shastra, it has to be remembered, is very catholic > in its > > > > approach. Maybe it frowns on the unbeliever with its strictures, > > > > confounds the critic with its misleading nomenclature, baffles the > > > > non-initiate with its codes and conundrums, and laughs at the > skeptic > > > > with its down-to-earth approach. But to the earnest seeker, it opens > > > > the doors wide and makes its treasures accessible -- irrespective of > > > > caste, creed or sex. The Veda is prescribed for the first three > > > > castes; but the Tantra is for all who aspire. > > > > > > > > " Normally the worship of Sri Chakra and the Navavarana Puja are for > > > > those who are initiated into the Sri Vidya Mantra. But if some > people > > > > earnestly seek the Divine Mother -- even if they are not > initiated -- > > > > there should be a way for them to approach her. For the Divine > Mother > > > > is the Mother of all, of the wise as well as of the idiot, of the > > > > initiate as well as the non-initiate, of the Gods as well as the > > Asuras. > > > > > > > > " In Her eyes all are equal and She is equally compassionate toward > > > > all. It is not necessary to know the Mantra or Yantra; a sincere > > > > devotion and absolute surrender are all that are required. A mother > > > > does not pick holes in the loving approach made by her child. As the > > > > Tantric feelingly exclaims, if we slip on the ground, the ground is > > > > our prop; if we are at fault in dealings with the Divine Mother, She > > > > is our sole refuge. > > > > > > > > " It is to the credit of Dikshitar that -- moved by this true Tantric > > > > impulse of catholicity -- he set to music the cardinal principles of > > > > Navavarana worship in his gem-like kritis, thus throwing open the > > > > treasures of Navavarana Puja to all those who are moved to approach > > > > the Divine Mother through devotional music. When these compositions > > > > are sung with true devotion, the melodious music makes effective the > > > > presence of the goddesses who are the wave vibrations of the > infinite > > > > ocean of Consciousness-Bliss.[1] > > > > > > > > [1] There is a unique composition of Dikshitar in Madhyamavati Raga > > > > beginning with the words " Sri Raja RajeswarIm. " This deals with the > > > > worship of the whole Sri Chakra, enumerating the Nine Chakras with > > > > their respective Mantras. " > > > > > > > > Hope that helps! > > > > > > > > DB > > > > > > > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > could anyone here explain a little about Karnatic music and > its use? > > > > > > > > > > , Radhakrishnan J > > > > > <jayaarshree@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > About chanting of LSN, SL, LT etc., the traditional view > point is > > > > > that one must receive it from a guru even for reciting it without > > > > > proper nyasa. These compositions are part of mantrashaastra and > > can be > > > > > used in prayogas for kaamya purposes. Simply acquiring it from a > > book > > > > > and reciting especially if one wants any of his desires > > fulfilled will > > > > > be futile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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