Guest guest Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Dear Cliff: So I am wondering, what does it mean to intellectually change a deity's iconography so as to facilitate that particulard eity's expropriation from another tradition? For example, in most Hindu traditions, the objects held by a deity are considered to be received as divine revelation, and not to be changed without totally skewing or nullifying the intended effect of the prayoga or other meditation. I have heard this referred to as " strip-mining another culture's spirituality " -- is this what is happening in the case of the various " Western Kali " figures, and this Ganapati figure you describe? The culture that produced Lord Ganapati as an image of God would be utterly confused by the image you describe -- as a traditional Christian might be confused by a figure of Jesus holding nose and goad and displaying varada and abhaya mudras; in other words, short- circuited as a familiar, worshipable representation of the Divine for the people who grew up in the tradition from which that representation emerged. Or is this just a matter of -- no disrespect intended -- making decorations for your altar? Thank you for any clarification you can provide. DB , " Cliff " <numinae wrote: > > Namaste Len, > As a practitioner of both Eastern and Western streams of spirit and the profound correlations therein I'd like to share these thoughts. > > Though it is true that there is no suit of the Atus of Tahuti relative to Akasha, a number of Western traditions such as Golden Dawn and Thelema use the lamp as a symbol of spirit. Sri Paramahansa Shivaji (Therion) appoints it as the instrument to the pinnacle of the Pentacle in his Book of Thoth. Some cross-practitioners (including myself) use it as the elemental tool of Spirit. > > I use this same lamp in my Eastern Puja during Aarati where the Lamp is circumambulated around or waved before the Murti, acquiring it's essence. One then cups their hands over the flame and transfers the blessing of the diety to the forehead. You may also recognize this from some native American traditions which have made their way into neo paganism by " smudging " with sacred herbs; usually sage or sweet grass. No hard and fast rules here-just ideas which I have found work for me. > Interestingly, the name aarati is constructed of the roots " aa " toward and " Rati " meaning the love of God. > > Regarding a Ganesha image, I have a line drawing of him with a number of western elements including the Thoth deck two of cups lotus in his upper left hand, a Trishati with a " shin " in his upper right hand and Tree of Life earrings. Let me know if you might be interested in a copy and I will try to scan it. > > Cliff / Nadananda > > > - > Len Rosenberg > > Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:26 PM > Complete Goddess > > > In Re: the lovely painting of Sarvambikeshvari that illustrates the Intro page of Shakti Sadhana's website -- much of the iconography of this goddess corresponds to the qualities of the Mahavidya Bhuvanishvari, the Lady of the Spheres. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Cute typo. Freudian? :-) Just teasin' ya. , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta wrote: > > [....] a figure of Jesus holding nose [....] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 And would that be his own or someone else's? namaste , " msbauju " <msbauju wrote: > > Cute typo. Freudian? > :-) > Just teasin' ya. > > , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta@> > wrote: > > > > [....] a figure of Jesus holding nose [....] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 With apologies for the lateness of this post due to a network crash and system recovery. Hello Devi Bhakta, You ask for clarification of my having a murti of Ganapati with some distinctly western iconography, and ask : " is this just a matter of -- no disrespect intended -- making decorations for your altar? " Where to begin? Perhaps by ignoring potentially inflammatory statements such as.. " to facilitate that particulard eity's expropriation from another tradition? " and: " strip-mining another culture's spirituality " -- is this what is happening in the case of the various " Western Kali " figures, and this Ganapati figure you describe? " ....and simply moving onward to clarification. The Ganesha image in question sits on an altar with a very beautiful traditional bronze murti of.... and another of Bala Ganapati, a bronze Pranava - as I'm sure all appreciate Ganapati's relation to the sacred OM, a beautiful copper engraved Ganesha yantra given by my teacher, and an offering plate for prasadam. Other items (such as Mala, incense and others) find a place dependent on the season and day of the week. This altar is in the North of my Temple room as prescribed for Ganapati by my Guru and at least three published authorities as well. The north is by the way the direction of the Earth element in most Western spiritual traditions and earth is the home element of The Lord as regent and diety form of the Muladara Chakra. My altar to the Earth element, also in the North, is separate but near the Ganapati Altar. I preceed ALL my meditative, puja and ritual work by invoking G first, for his blessing on my work and as is his due. The Ganapati image in question is not a " decoration " but an integral part of my altar. It was a gift from another Western adept who is also a lover of Ganapati. I am not aware of it's source or the artist but I cherish it very much as a bridge in some small way between the several paths of spirit I walk. I would also mention that my temple holds altars to Siva, Lalita Tripurasundari, MahaKali, Horus, Babalon, and Gaia. Rather than a crowded place my temple is a room of peace harmony and focus. There is no enmity between the diety forms (at least in my world) as they are ALL access points to the Brahman beyond all human perception, and really all one. I am reminded of a statement by Chaitanyananda, a disciple of Amritananda Saraswati, to a devotee attending a Shakti rite at his peetham in New York who asked if as a Vishnu worshipper it was appropriate for her to attend. His wonderful response was that they - Vishnu and Shakti- were one and the same beyond our limited perceptions. The murti described in detail is a line drawing of Ganapati dancing. The Lord is facing forward. He wears an ornate crown with a crest of a six point star merged with a swastika. The crown also features a five pointed star of the elements. This is also with the hexagram or six point star a symbol of non-christian western spirituality. Behind him are the Sun and a crescent moon. Over his heart is a medallion with a hexagram, only this shows a layout of the 7 planets and 12 signs as used in western astrology with the sun at the center of the mandala. This reflects the Anahata chakra with it's hexagram center and 12 petals. With his four arms he holds in his forward left hand a bowl of Modaka and gives the gesture of blessing with his right. In his 'behind' arms he holds Shiva's Trishul in the right and a flower in the left from which two fish swirl. These design elements are all extremely traditional. Western elements here are that the flower resembles very much a card from the Thoth tarot deck whose title is " Love " . The Trishul has at the juncture of the tines a small circle with the Hebrew letter " Shin " which is in that sacred alphabet imaged as a trident and symbolizes the the creative fire of spirit identical to that of Kundalini. As all of these symbols are appropriate to and complementary with both East and West streams of spiritual endeavor, I do not see that there is any conflict to use the traditional symbols of one with a flavor of the other when the symbols mean the same thing. Though I have " journeyed to the East " , I am still a Westerner living in the West. That I have been blessed with an appreciation of and membership in the spiritual traditions of a culture not of my birth while at the same time not rejecting those of my native culture, and finding cognate meaning in both is of deep joy to me. I also approach these symbols extremely aware of their meaning in both cultures and value it highly. Still, I realize that symbols are different things to different people. The swastika on my altar is frequently misunderstood by those ignorant of it's positive meaning in not only Hinduism but other cultures,( knowing it only for its association with racist idology) and more than a few visitors to my sacred space have also jumped to conclusions of intent on my part for having it on my altar. Several years ago a friend ignorant of other cultures on seeing my Temple thought the Trishul on my Shiva altar was a pitchfork and the swastika on my Ganesha altar added up to me being a " Satanic Nazi " . (sigh) I do understand that a Hindu ignorant of Hebrew might not understand that the letter Shin is extremely compatible with the symbolism of not only the Trishula but of Shiva himself. I would offer though that such education is partly but not completely mine. All peoples should be at least somewhat familiar and conversant with other cultures and thereby able to avoid projecting insult on sincere expression of others. As to your point about " the objects held by a deity are considered to be received as divine revelation, and not to be changed without totally skewing or nullifying the intended effect of the prayoga or other meditation " . I would respond that particularly with Ganapati I have found such numerous versions of the Lord with very different symbolic objects, colors, number of arms, etc. that I find it hard to think of a devotree of one sect NOT being confused when confronted by an alternate image unless they understand that all of these are the same diety. Sadly, human history is largely made up of such lack of understanding for we have been killing each other for millenia in the name of the same God, which interestingly is a central theme of the Mahabarata To the statement that a traditional christian (which I am not) seeing Jesus holding a " noose " and goad and displaying mudras being confused, I would offer these thoughts. Prominent in christian iconography are images of Jesus holding both hands forward in a gesture identical to varada mudra or the classic western prayer position of anjali mudra. Cogent here I think is the different conceptions of the single symbol of Jesus in christianity. The worshippers of Jesus the savior, Jesus the healer, Jesus the suffering martyr on the cross, baby Jesus in the manger, Jesus the rebel I the temple, those who see him as the source of compassion and forgiveness and those who see him as the judge over the damned in hell, those who do good works in his name and those who kill and torture for his glory and kingdom. One symbol with many conceptions for vastly different people. (refer to above paragraph) Thus Shakti presents to us as Kali, Uma, Parvati, Lalita, Chintamani, Sodasi or so many others according to our needs and our soul's path. In this context we can see all of them as HER though one or another as the chosen Ishta Devata. Can we not see that other cultural symbols with the same or similar meanings are not heresy or cultural theft but a richer palette of conception and understanding. I ( and the friend that gifted me with this murti) never intended it as a teaching device for devout Hindus to be confused by. I know for myself that it is a celebration of the omnipresence of that which is beyond ALL of the subjective perception of symbols which are simply veils of the Supreme Reality beyond form. A lengthy clarification but one which I hope will suffice. Namaste Cliff / Svaramaya Nadananda - Devi Bhakta Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:11 AM Lord Ganapati with " Thoth Deck " -- Wha..?! Dear Cliff: So I am wondering, what does it mean to intellectually change a deity's iconography so as to facilitate that particulard eity's expropriation from another tradition? For example, in most Hindu traditions, the objects held by a deity are considered to be received as divine revelation, and not to be changed without totally skewing or nullifying the intended effect of the prayoga or other meditation. I have heard this referred to as " strip-mining another culture's spirituality " -- is this what is happening in the case of the various " Western Kali " figures, and this Ganapati figure you describe? The culture that produced Lord Ganapati as an image of God would be utterly confused by the image you describe -- as a traditional Christian might be confused by a figure of Jesus holding nose and goad and displaying varada and abhaya mudras; in other words, short- circuited as a familiar, worshipable representation of the Divine for the people who grew up in the tradition from which that representation emerged. Or is this just a matter of -- no disrespect intended -- making decorations for your altar? Thank you for any clarification you can provide. DB , " Cliff " <numinae wrote: > > Namaste Len, > As a practitioner of both Eastern and Western streams of spirit and the profound correlations therein I'd like to share these thoughts. > > Though it is true that there is no suit of the Atus of Tahuti relative to Akasha, a number of Western traditions such as Golden Dawn and Thelema use the lamp as a symbol of spirit. Sri Paramahansa Shivaji (Therion) appoints it as the instrument to the pinnacle of the Pentacle in his Book of Thoth. Some cross-practitioners (including myself) use it as the elemental tool of Spirit. > > I use this same lamp in my Eastern Puja during Aarati where the Lamp is circumambulated around or waved before the Murti, acquiring it's essence. One then cups their hands over the flame and transfers the blessing of the diety to the forehead. You may also recognize this from some native American traditions which have made their way into neo paganism by " smudging " with sacred herbs; usually sage or sweet grass. No hard and fast rules here-just ideas which I have found work for me. > Interestingly, the name aarati is constructed of the roots " aa " toward and " Rati " meaning the love of God. > > Regarding a Ganesha image, I have a line drawing of him with a number of western elements including the Thoth deck two of cups lotus in his upper left hand, a Trishati with a " shin " in his upper right hand and Tree of Life earrings. Let me know if you might be interested in a copy and I will try to scan it. > > Cliff / Nadananda > > > - > Len Rosenberg > > Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:26 PM > Complete Goddess > > > In Re: the lovely painting of Sarvambikeshvari that illustrates the Intro page of Shakti Sadhana's website -- much of the iconography of this goddess corresponds to the qualities of the Mahavidya Bhuvanishvari, the Lady of the Spheres. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 Dear Cliff You wrote: *** Where to begin? Perhaps by ignoring potentially inflammatory statements such as ... ***' I apologize if my words offended you. Please be assured, however, that my question was quite sincere. *** The Ganesha image in question sits on an altar with a very beautiful traditional bronze murti of [...] I preceed ALL my meditative, puja and ritual work by invoking G first, for his blessing on my work and as is his due. [...] *** Okay, fair enough. So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that you have some fairly traditional Hindu elements in your practice, and that your approach is respectful and knowledgeable ... *** The Ganapati image in question is not a " decoration " but an integral part of my altar. *** Again, I apologize for having offended. *** I do not see that there is any conflict to use the traditional symbols of one with a flavor of the other when the symbols mean the same thing. *** This is a compelling idea, and seems to make perfect sense. This is really the answer to my question; I did not realize that the symbols were for all practical purposes equivalent. *** I also approach these symbols extremely aware of their meaning in both cultures and value it highly. *** This too seems reasonable enough to me. In fact, I am really surprised and gratified to hear it; it is not the answer I expected. *** All peoples should be at least somewhat familiar and conversant with other cultures and thereby able to avoid projecting insult on sincere expression of others. *** A bit of explanation is definitely a good place to start, as the mixing and matching of religious traditions involves manipulation (using this term mechanically, not with any intended negative connotation) of imagery near and dear to peoples' hearts -- and I suppose misapprehensions would be a real risk. *** Sadly, human history is largely made up of such lack of understanding for we have been killing each other for millenia in the name of the same God, which interestingly is a central theme of the Mahabarata *** Bingo. *** To the statement that a traditional christian (which I am not) seeing Jesus holding a " noose " and goad and displaying mudras being confused, I would offer these thoughts [...] *** Okay, okay, so I used a crappy example ... :-p I knew I was in trouble when I typo'd Jesus holding his nose *lol* *** Thus Shakti presents to us as Kali, Uma, Parvati, Lalita, Chintamani, Sodasi or so many others according to our needs and our soul's path.*** Yes indeed. *** In this context we can see all of them as HER though one or another as the chosen Ishta Devata. Can we not see that other cultural symbols with the same or similar meanings are not heresy or cultural theft but a richer palette of conception and understanding. *** You certainly made a strong argument for it. At the very least, it is food for thought. Thank you for your long and considered reply. It was an enlightening read and I do appreciate your patience and consideration in taking the time to explain your viewpoints. With all warmest regards aim mAtangyai namaH DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 In 1980 I moved to an apartment in Flushing, Queens. While wandering through the neighborhood, I discovered the Ganesha Temple on Bowne Street. I experienced chills, weeping, and several minutes of lost consciousness while standing before the central Ganapati murthi. I re-visit at least once a year. Around the same time, I began training in Proteus Coven in New York. My experience is that many Westerners are irresistably attracted to Ganesha. It confuses some of them, whose spiritual interests are not particularly Hindu. But I feel that Ganesha, as Lord of Categories, can transcend all the man-made definitions of cult and religion. He is the emissary of Sanatana Dharma to many questioning spiritual seekers. If approached with respect, Ganesha will accept devotion from all comers, and gently guide them towards an awareness of the Dharma. I have always kept my Hindu path and my Wiccan path separate. But there are intriguing parallels nonetheless. The Three Shaktis are very similar to the Maiden, Mother, and Crone. Shiva and Krishna have much in common with the Horned God and the Green Man. Everything morphs slowly into everything else. It really IS all One, as Shri Ramakrishna kept insisting. -- Len/ Kalipadma , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta wrote: > > Dear Cliff > > You wrote: > > *** Where to begin? Perhaps by ignoring potentially inflammatory > statements such as ... ***' > > I apologize if my words offended you. Please be assured, however, > that my question was quite sincere. > > *** The Ganesha image in question sits on an altar with a very > beautiful traditional bronze murti of [...] I preceed ALL my > meditative, puja and ritual work by invoking G first, for his > blessing on my work and as is his due. [...] *** > > Okay, fair enough. So if I understand you correctly, you are saying > that you have some fairly traditional Hindu elements in your > practice, and that your approach is respectful and knowledgeable ... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 So, Cliff, where can we see your sketch of Ganapati? -- Len/ Kalipadma , " Cliff " <numinae wrote: > > With apologies for the lateness of this post due to a network crash and system recovery. > > > > Hello Devi Bhakta, > > > > You ask for clarification of my having a murti of Ganapati with some distinctly western iconography, and ask : > > " is this just a matter of -- no disrespect intended -- making > decorations for your altar? " > > > > Where to begin? Perhaps by ignoring potentially inflammatory statements such as.. > > > > " to facilitate that particulard eity's > expropriation from another tradition? " > > and: > > " strip-mining another culture's > spirituality " -- is this what is happening in the case of the > various " Western Kali " figures, and this Ganapati figure you describe? " > > > > ...and simply moving onward to clarification. > > > > The Ganesha image in question sits on an altar with a very beautiful traditional bronze murti of.... and another of Bala Ganapati, a bronze Pranava - as I'm sure all appreciate Ganapati's relation to the sacred OM, a beautiful copper engraved Ganesha yantra given by my teacher, and an offering plate for prasadam. Other items (such as Mala, incense and others) find a place dependent on the season and day of the week. This altar is in the North of my Temple room as prescribed for Ganapati by my Guru and at least three published authorities as well. The north is by the way the direction of the Earth element in most Western spiritual traditions and earth is the home element of The Lord as regent and diety form of the Muladara Chakra. My altar to the Earth element, also in the North, is separate but near the Ganapati Altar. I preceed ALL my meditative, puja and ritual work by invoking G first, for his blessing on my work and as is his due. The Ganapati image in question is not a " decoration " but an integral part of my altar. It was a gift from another Western adept who is also a lover of Ganapati. I am not aware of it's source or the artist but I cherish it very much as a bridge in some small way between the several paths of spirit I walk. I would also mention that my temple holds altars to Siva, Lalita Tripurasundari, MahaKali, Horus, Babalon, and Gaia. Rather than a crowded place my temple is a room of peace harmony and focus. There is no enmity between the diety forms (at least in my world) as they are ALL access points to the Brahman beyond all human perception, and really all one. > > > > I am reminded of a statement by Chaitanyananda, a disciple of Amritananda Saraswati, to a devotee attending a Shakti rite at his peetham in New York who asked if as a Vishnu worshipper it was appropriate for her to attend. His wonderful response was that they > > - Vishnu and Shakti- were one and the same beyond our limited perceptions. > > > > The murti described in detail is a line drawing of Ganapati dancing. The Lord is facing forward. He wears an ornate crown with a crest of a six point star merged with a swastika. The crown also features a five pointed star of the elements. This is also with the hexagram or six point star a symbol of non-christian western spirituality. Behind him are the Sun and a crescent moon. Over his heart is a medallion with a hexagram, only this shows a layout of the 7 planets and 12 signs as used in western astrology with the sun at the center of the mandala. This reflects the Anahata chakra with it's hexagram center and 12 petals. With his four arms he holds in his forward left hand a bowl of Modaka and gives the gesture of blessing with his right. In his 'behind' arms he holds Shiva's Trishul in the right and a flower in the left from which two fish swirl. These design elements are all extremely traditional. Western elements here are that the flower resembles very much a card from the Thoth tarot deck whose title is " Love " . The Trishul has at the juncture of the tines a small circle with the Hebrew letter " Shin " which is in that sacred alphabet imaged as a trident and symbolizes the the creative fire of spirit identical to that of Kundalini. > > > > As all of these symbols are appropriate to and complementary with both East and West streams of spiritual endeavor, I do not see that there is any conflict to use the traditional symbols of one with a flavor of the other when the symbols mean the same thing. Though I have " journeyed to the East " , I am still a Westerner living in the West. > > That I have been blessed with an appreciation of and membership in the spiritual traditions of a culture not of my birth while at the same time not rejecting those of my native culture, and finding cognate meaning in both is of deep joy to me. I also approach these symbols extremely aware of their meaning in both cultures and value it highly. > > > > Still, I realize that symbols are different things to different people. The swastika on my altar is frequently misunderstood by those ignorant of it's positive meaning in not only Hinduism but other cultures,( knowing it only for its association with racist idology) and more than a few visitors to my sacred space have also jumped to conclusions of intent on my part for having it on my altar. Several years ago a friend ignorant of other cultures on seeing my Temple thought the Trishul on my Shiva altar was a pitchfork and the swastika on my Ganesha altar added up to me being a " Satanic Nazi " . (sigh) > > I do understand that a Hindu ignorant of Hebrew might not understand that the letter Shin is extremely compatible with the symbolism of not only the Trishula but of Shiva himself. > > > > I would offer though that such education is partly but not completely mine. All peoples should be at least somewhat familiar and conversant with other cultures and thereby able to avoid projecting insult on sincere expression of others. > > > > As to your point about " the objects held by a deity are considered to be received as divine revelation, and not to be changed without totally skewing or nullifying the intended effect of the prayoga or other meditation " . > > I would respond that particularly with Ganapati I have found such numerous versions of the Lord with very different symbolic objects, colors, number of arms, etc. that I find it hard to think of a devotree of one sect NOT being confused when confronted by an alternate image unless they understand that all of these are the same diety. Sadly, human history is largely made up of such lack of understanding for we have been killing each other for millenia in the name of the same God, which interestingly is a central theme of the Mahabarata > > > > To the statement that a traditional christian (which I am not) seeing Jesus holding a " noose " and goad and displaying mudras being confused, I would offer these thoughts. Prominent in christian iconography are images of Jesus holding both hands forward in a gesture identical to varada mudra or the classic western prayer position of anjali mudra. Cogent here I think is the different conceptions of the single symbol of Jesus in christianity. The worshippers of Jesus the savior, Jesus the healer, Jesus the suffering martyr on the cross, baby Jesus in the manger, Jesus the rebel I the temple, those who see him as the source of compassion and forgiveness and those who see him as the judge over the damned in hell, those who do good works in his name and those who kill and torture for his glory and kingdom. One symbol with many conceptions for vastly different people. (refer to above paragraph) > > > > Thus Shakti presents to us as Kali, Uma, Parvati, Lalita, Chintamani, Sodasi or so many others according to our needs and our soul's path. In this context we can see all of them as HER though one or another as the chosen Ishta Devata. Can we not see that other cultural symbols with the same or similar meanings are not heresy or cultural theft but a richer palette of conception and understanding. > > I ( and the friend that gifted me with this murti) never intended it as a teaching device for devout Hindus to be confused by. I know for myself that it is a celebration of the omnipresence of that which is beyond ALL of the subjective perception of symbols which are simply veils of the Supreme Reality beyond form. > > > > A lengthy clarification but one which I hope will suffice. > > > > Namaste > > Cliff / Svaramaya Nadananda - > Devi Bhakta > > Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:11 AM > Lord Ganapati with " Thoth Deck " -- Wha..?! > > > Dear Cliff: > > So I am wondering, what does it mean to intellectually change a > deity's iconography so as to facilitate that particulard eity's > expropriation from another tradition? > > For example, in most Hindu traditions, the objects held by a deity > are considered to be received as divine revelation, and not to be > changed without totally skewing or nullifying the intended effect of > the prayoga or other meditation. > > I have heard this referred to as " strip-mining another culture's > spirituality " -- is this what is happening in the case of the > various " Western Kali " figures, and this Ganapati figure you describe? > > The culture that produced Lord Ganapati as an image of God would be > utterly confused by the image you describe -- as a traditional > Christian might be confused by a figure of Jesus holding nose and > goad and displaying varada and abhaya mudras; in other words, short- > circuited as a familiar, worshipable representation of the Divine for > the people who grew up in the tradition from which that > representation emerged. > > Or is this just a matter of -- no disrespect intended -- making > decorations for your altar? > > Thank you for any clarification you can provide. > > DB > > , " Cliff " <numinae@> wrote: > > > > Namaste Len, > > As a practitioner of both Eastern and Western streams of spirit and > the profound correlations therein I'd like to share these thoughts. > > > > Though it is true that there is no suit of the Atus of Tahuti > relative to Akasha, a number of Western traditions such as Golden > Dawn and Thelema use the lamp as a symbol of spirit. Sri Paramahansa > Shivaji (Therion) appoints it as the instrument to the pinnacle of > the Pentacle in his Book of Thoth. Some cross-practitioners > (including myself) use it as the elemental tool of Spirit. > > > > I use this same lamp in my Eastern Puja during Aarati where the > Lamp is circumambulated around or waved before the Murti, acquiring > it's essence. One then cups their hands over the flame and transfers > the blessing of the diety to the forehead. You may also recognize > this from some native American traditions which have made their way > into neo paganism by " smudging " with sacred herbs; usually sage or > sweet grass. No hard and fast rules here-just ideas which I have > found work for me. > > Interestingly, the name aarati is constructed of the roots " aa " > toward and " Rati " meaning the love of God. > > > > Regarding a Ganesha image, I have a line drawing of him with a > number of western elements including the Thoth deck two of cups lotus > in his upper left hand, a Trishati with a " shin " in his upper right > hand and Tree of Life earrings. Let me know if you might be > interested in a copy and I will try to scan it. > > > > Cliff / Nadananda > > > > > > - > > Len Rosenberg > > > > Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:26 PM > > Complete Goddess > > > > > > In Re: the lovely painting of Sarvambikeshvari that illustrates > the Intro page of Shakti Sadhana's website -- much of the iconography > of this goddess corresponds to the qualities of the Mahavidya > Bhuvanishvari, the Lady of the Spheres. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hello Len, As I mentioned in my letter I had a serious meltdown of my system. I am in the process of recovering much of my lost functions (smile) and it appears I may have to reprogram my scanner /printer. Am awaiting information from the manufacturer, but will try to get a copy on disk via a friend's scanner and upload it. I am however concerned that though I explained the image at length, and the person who expressed concern regarding the concept of a cross-cultural Ganapati murti responded most positively to my explanation, that there might be others offended by it being uploaded to the group. I do not have a website, and so uploading a link for folks to choose (or not) to follow to see the image in question is not possible. In responding to your original statement re the Tarot and Ganesha I had not anticipated that such things might be disturbing to others. Though that was not my intention at all, I have been instructed by the exchanges regarding this murti and the discussions regarding the art of M.F. Husain. Experience has shown that though I feel sometimes the offence is moreso in the mind of the receiver than in the intent of the sender, still, one must consider and acknowledge the impact for good or ill of one's actions. Good Karma Yoga. It is not my will to offend anyone, but believing that I may have or might do so is of concern and leads me to this possible solution. My personal email is: numinae [numinae at olypen.com] Please send me your email address and I will send you a copy of the Ganapati in the next few days. I hope you enjoy it. Namaste Cliff / Nadananda - Len Rosenberg Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:43 AM Re: Lord Ganapati with " Thoth Deck " -- Wha..?! So, Cliff, where can we see your sketch of Ganapati? -- Len/ Kalipadma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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