Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hari OM this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal- 4.7.3/node/1249 Jai Shree Maa Love baba , " ckannannair " <ckannannair wrote: > > Hi, > Check the links below.It might help > > http://www.shreemaa.org/ > http://mystictantra.com/index.html > > Shri Tripurave Hreem > Kannan > > , " cr_saba " <cr_saba@> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Does anybody have information of where, or with who, one can > receive > > Kali mantra(puja) initiation ? > > > > I know Sringeri in PA does so for the Sri Vidya Puja, but it is > > very difficult to find one for Kali mantra. > > > > With Best Regards, > > Charles > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Namaste, Thank you all for your help. Best Regards, Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Yes Rajesh, No doubt this is how it should be done. But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be. I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in preserving the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible experience. They even have a complete list going back in the transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it. When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the guru- disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So you can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat-Guru vows. The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is what the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning. But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic lineage of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param- para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence. The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception. The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder is another ball game :---) Best Regards, Charles , Rajesh MR <mrrajeshvedam wrote: > > > > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA. > RAJESH.M.R > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Hello Joanna, It is interesting you mention her. I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way. No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But there are some who are. I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany him to see her, here in my area. To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there. Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her in an unbiased way. Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. With Best Regards, Charles , " joannapollner " <joannapollner wrote: > > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi ( Ammachi ) I am sure > She would give You Kali Mantra . > joanna > > > > Hari OM > > > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal- > > 4.7.3/node/1249 > > > > Jai Shree Maa > > Love baba > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 This darshan-by-Look is something Amma does most powerfully, and usually in unexpected moments. >Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual >experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking >at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. > >These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly >hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, >but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her >in an unbiased way. > >Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that >if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. -- Max Dashu Art in Goddess Reverence http://www.maxdashu.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Hello Charles thank You for sharing , well yes that is Ammachi behind the smile and simplicity You have a huge power of Shakti both Her and Sri Karunamayi are my Gurus and they both initiated me into Devi Mantras Joanna > > Hello Joanna, > > It is interesting you mention her. > > I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way. > > No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But there are some who are. > > I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany him to see her, here in my area. > > To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there. > > Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. > > These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her in an unbiased way. > > Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. > > With Best Regards, > Charles > > > , " joannapollner " > <joannapollner@> wrote: > > > > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi ( > Ammachi ) I am sure > > She would give You Kali Mantra . > > joanna > > > > > > Hari OM > > > > > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very > very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He > > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal- > > > 4.7.3/node/1249 > > > > > > Jai Shree Maa > > > Love baba > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the time, on the totality of circumstances. And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can be more than enough for others. I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a caveat is called for here. DB , " cr_saba " <cr_saba wrote: > > Yes Rajesh, > > No doubt this is how it should be done. > > But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered > somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission > of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be. > > I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in preserving > the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra > initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible > experience. They even have a complete list going back in the > transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it. > > When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it > doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just > means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to > impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the guru- > disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So you > can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat- Guru > vows. > > The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali > tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is what > the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning. > > But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic lineage > of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I > sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param- > para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence. > > The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the > initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be > sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the > line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone > present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception. > > The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder is > another ball game :---) > > Best Regards, > Charles > > > , Rajesh MR <mrrajeshvedam@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI > INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER > DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA > DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA. > > RAJESH.M.R > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Ammachi is undoubtedly qualified to give Kali Mantra; the question is whether the recipient is qualified to receive it. Even the greatest guru can only sow the seed; what happens next is ultimately a matter of grace and the shishya's effort. The seed is durable -- it can lie dormant for years or even lifetimes, until the sadhaka is ready to receive its grace. aim mAtangyai namaH , " cr_saba " <cr_saba wrote: > > Hello Joanna, > > It is interesting you mention her. > > I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way. > > No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But there are some who are. > > I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany him to see her, here in my area. > > To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there. > > Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. > > These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her in an unbiased way. > > Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. > > With Best Regards, > Charles > > > , " joannapollner " > <joannapollner@> wrote: > > > > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi ( > Ammachi ) I am sure > > She would give You Kali Mantra . > > joanna > > > > > > Hari OM > > > > > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very > very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He > > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal- > > > 4.7.3/node/1249 > > > > > > Jai Shree Maa > > > Love baba > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----) These are just fact findings. The lineages are not how they used to be, they have either disbanded, became diluted, or stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps with or without the transmission shakti-pat. But if you approach someone like Ammachi, all this doesn't really matter. As far as myself, I am nothing. As far as my spiritual attainments, not much. It's all been continuous work till this very day. What I say, I do just to share with other truthseekers. Love & Peace Charles Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote: But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the time, on the totality of circumstances. And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can be more than enough for others. I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a caveat is called for here. DB , " cr_saba " wrote: > > Yes Rajesh, > > No doubt this is how it should be done. > > But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered > somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission > of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be. > > I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in preserving > the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra > initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible > experience. They even have a complete list going back in the > transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it. > > When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it > doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just > means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to > impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the guru- > disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So you > can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat- Guru > vows. > > The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali > tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is what > the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning. > > But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic lineage > of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I > sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param- > para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence. > > The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the > initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be > sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the > line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone > present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception. > > The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder is > another ball game :---) > > Best Regards, > Charles > > > , Rajesh MR > wrote: > > > > > > > > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI > INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER > DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA > DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA. > > RAJESH.M.R > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I'm sure Ammachi would know who is fit for what... And even more important than effort, is spiritual sincerity... deep sincerity... without it you won't even attract the Guru in the first place... Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote: Ammachi is undoubtedly qualified to give Kali Mantra; the question is whether the recipient is qualified to receive it. Even the greatest guru can only sow the seed; what happens next is ultimately a matter of grace and the shishya's effort. The seed is durable -- it can lie dormant for years or even lifetimes, until the sadhaka is ready to receive its grace. aim mAtangyai namaH , " cr_saba " wrote: > > Hello Joanna, > > It is interesting you mention her. > > I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way. > > No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But there are some who are. > > I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany him to see her, here in my area. > > To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there. > > Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. > > These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her in an unbiased way. > > Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. > > With Best Regards, > Charles > > > , " joannapollner " > wrote: > > > > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi ( > Ammachi ) I am sure > > She would give You Kali Mantra . > > joanna > > > > > > Hari OM > > > > > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very > very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - Shree Maa and He > > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal- > > > 4.7.3/node/1249 > > > > > > Jai Shree Maa > > > Love baba > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 very wisely stated indeed that is the case . joanna > > Ammachi is undoubtedly qualified to give Kali Mantra; the question > is whether the recipient is qualified to receive it. > > Even the greatest guru can only sow the seed; what happens next is > ultimately a matter of grace and the shishya's effort. The seed is > durable -- it can lie dormant for years or even lifetimes, until the > sadhaka is ready to receive its grace. > > aim mAtangyai namaH > > , " cr_saba " <cr_saba@> wrote: > > > > Hello Joanna, > > > > It is interesting you mention her. > > > > I agree with you 100%, but I didn't always think this way. > > > > No doubt, that not everyone out there is certified saint. But > there are some who are. > > > > I am a natural skeptic, and a friend of mine wanted me to acompany > him to see her, here in my area. > > > > To make a long story short, I really didn't want to go, but in the > end was dragged there. I decided that to make the situation > bearable, I would just relax and be receptive while I was there. > > > > Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner > spiritual experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by > just looking at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. > > > > These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been > mainly hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these > experiences, but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some > light about her in an unbiased way. > > > > Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression > that if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. > > > > With Best Regards, > > Charles > > > > > > , " joannapollner " > > <joannapollner@> wrote: > > > > > > The first thing that comes to my mind here is Mata Amritandamayi > ( > > Ammachi ) I am sure > > > She would give You Kali Mantra . > > > joanna > > > > > > > > Hari OM > > > > > > > > this swami has known Shree Maa for many years - She takes very > > very few Disciples - Swami Satyananada Saraswati who writes the > books and preforms the pujas teaches from His book Kali Puja - > Shree Maa and He > > > > taught this swami to do puja http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal- > > > > 4.7.3/node/1249 > > > > > > > > Jai Shree Maa > > > > Love baba > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I do feel that asking either Ammachi or Sri Karunamayi for guidence on Spiritual path is like asking Devi Herself , I do agree that to find a pure lineage now days must be truly difficult , so I prefer to ask Devi directly )) hmmm possibly in person too . > > Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----) > > These are just fact findings. > > The lineages are not how they used to be, > they have either disbanded, became diluted, or > stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas > have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps > with or without the transmission shakti-pat. > > But if you approach someone like Ammachi, all this > doesn't really matter. > > As far as myself, I am nothing. As far as my spiritual > attainments, not much. It's all been continuous work till this > very day. > > What I say, I do just to share with other truthseekers. > > Love & Peace > Charles > > Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote: > But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All > of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true > or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the > time, on the totality of circumstances. > > And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of > notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively > meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can > be more than enough for others. > > I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this > person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a > caveat is called for here. > > DB > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 , CSaba <cr_saba wrote: > > Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----) > > These are just fact findings. > > The lineages are not how they used to be, > they have either disbanded, became diluted, or > stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas > have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps > with or without the transmission shakti-pat. > Yes indeed those are YOUR facts. Its because you have not encounter any one of them in person as yet. You assume whatever you think of Ammachi one fact remain is that she has no direct lineage. You all can think whatever you believe, if you like to believe she as DEVI herself, its find with me but please ....... As I have spoken this many times to DB and Kochu, I like to make it public here, I have nothing against her. I do believe Ammachi is just a simple minded siddha and a humble one. Its the sishya and those around her who like to exaggerate. The same with tantric sex, which have been blown out of proportion that gives tantrism a bad name. Why because there are out there so many people who are sexually deprived. Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. DEVI forgive me for saying this!. This what makes me sick and depress whenever I hear Ammachi name being mention. She have become an advertisement gimmick. I remembered a patient who have had his left lower leg amputated. Even after being amputated, he still claimed to be able to feel his leg. He still complaint of the pain. Then another lady who really believe she is pregnant. She began to show signs of pregnancy : morning sickness etc despite showing all the results that she is not. The bulging abdomen is nothing but accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity. Now..... what did Ammachi herself said about the MIND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 [1] Devi Bhakta, I didn't notice your second paragraph. You need to know: " Not everyone clueless. " Having lived in India, I know what goes on in India, and better yet, I know what really goes in India. So lets not go there. Most people here in States can be fooled and or confused, but everyone. The truth is, if people here knew the right spiritual books to read from the beginning and the right people to meet, the pseudo-intellectuals would be out of a job real fast. So don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. It's sad to see a grown up man pickled with envy and jealousy just because of 18 tantric initiations. I was elucidating a point on shakti-pat not trying to impress. As a matter of fact, I have few initiations compared to the dedicated ones. These folks have received entire cycles of initiations, which can add up to 60 easily, and can take 2-3 months full time to recieve. You should be happy for others, and encourage them in their efforts. Don't mislead or confuse others. [2] Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote: But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the time, on the totality of circumstances. And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can be more than enough for others. I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a caveat is called for here. DB [3] Buddha didn't have a lineage either, yet he was the BUDDHA... The same applies with Amma... These are not my facts, these are THE facts. Love & Peace, Charles NMadasamy <nmadasamy wrote: , CSaba wrote: > > Devi_Bhakti, please don't take it personal... :-----) > > These are just fact findings. > > The lineages are not how they used to be, > they have either disbanded, became diluted, or > stopped altogether, and whatever remained of sadhanas > have been absorbed by the temple acharyas, perhaps > with or without the transmission shakti-pat. > Yes indeed those are YOUR facts. Its because you have not encounter any one of them in person as yet. You assume whatever you think of Ammachi one fact remain is that she has no direct lineage. You all can think whatever you believe, if you like to believe she as DEVI herself, its find with me but please ....... As I have spoken this many times to DB and Kochu, I like to make it public here, I have nothing against her. I do believe Ammachi is just a simple minded siddha and a humble one. Its the sishya and those around her who like to exaggerate. The same with tantric sex, which have been blown out of proportion that gives tantrism a bad name. Why because there are out there so many people who are sexually deprived. Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. DEVI forgive me for saying this!. This what makes me sick and depress whenever I hear Ammachi name being mention. She have become an advertisement gimmick. I remembered a patient who have had his left lower leg amputated. Even after being amputated, he still claimed to be able to feel his leg. He still complaint of the pain. Then another lady who really believe she is pregnant. She began to show signs of pregnancy : morning sickness etc despite showing all the results that she is not. The bulging abdomen is nothing but accumulation of fluid in the abdominal cavity. Now..... what did Ammachi herself said about the MIND? [4] Joan, Your so right about that !!! I guess I'll have to wait till next year when she comes again. All good things to those who wait... :-----) Are there any special procedures to follow that I may need to know ahead of time ? Best Regards, Charles joannapollner <joannapollner wrote: I do feel that asking either Ammachi or Sri Karunamayi for guidence on Spiritual path is like asking Devi Herself , I do agree that to find a pure lineage now days must be truly difficult , so I prefer to ask Devi directly )) hmmm possibly in person too . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as >Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around >with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those >spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way, but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and aware people. You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list. Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do. If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is there to be said. Max -- Max Dashu Art in Goddess Reverence http://www.maxdashu.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Nora : Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as > >Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around > >with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those > >spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. Max Dashu wrote: Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more > than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way, > but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get > someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be > plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual > materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and > aware people. Yes! that is how I have seen her to become. You all may disagree, find with me. But these are what I see and I have several who have express agreement with me in the net and in person verbally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 That is simply ridiculous , conservative lineage Who believe only through them a Divine can flow and only they have right to initiate is sort of controlling power . If You see a Mahatma with open heart and a true Mahatma is simple and humble , no one is advertising Amma making a simple selling trick , but I think it could be the forum likes traditional lineage which if true are also beautiful ( but at the same time that is like saying if You do not come from family of Doctors how can You bee a doctor ) well things happen . Sometimes God does not choose a lineage and comes in simple humble form. > > >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as > >Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around > >with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those > >spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. > > Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more > than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way, > but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get > someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be > plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual > materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and > aware people. > > You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown > any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying > to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into > an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list. > Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do. > > If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is > there to be said. > > Max > -- > Max Dashu > > Art in Goddess Reverence > http://www.maxdashu.net > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I raised money for her after Katrina, but I have never met her and have no connection. But I like her. I would like to meet her someday. Maybe if she ever comes to New Orleans. - " Max Dashu " <maxdashu Monday, September 17, 2007 12:42 PM Re: Kali Mantra Initiation > This darshan-by-Look is something Amma does most powerfully, and > usually in unexpected moments. > >>Immediately, after that thought, I had an incredible inner spiritual >>experience, which she conveyed to me by sight alone, by just looking >>at me. The tantric shastras speak of this very clearly. >> >>These things don't happen to me. My spiritual life has been mainly >>hard work, and I am aware you shouldn't disclose these experiences, >>but I do, for whatever it's worth, in shedding some light about her >>in an unbiased way. >> >>Though Ammachi is not my Sat-Guru, I'm now under the impression that >>if anyone can give Devi initiation, its her. > > -- > Max Dashu > > Art in Goddess Reverence > http://www.maxdashu.net > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Yes, after graduating MIU I have attended many tantric initiations myself mostly of Vajrayana and even though I have met awesome beings I usually brought the shaktipat for everyone. Just an idle brag. Most Buddhists not having much shakti due to not propitiating many devas. Of course I am not meaning the lamas. Or the lineages which have more than shakti (or less) or both, in the form of - merit. Something which itself is very potent. - " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta Monday, September 17, 2007 3:22 PM Re: Kali Mantra Initiation > But ... none of these assertions are absolutely true or false. All > of them are utterly subjective. And any of them can be either true > or false depending on the guru, on the shishya, on the place, on the > time, on the totality of circumstances. > > And while " 18 tantric initiations " makes for an impressive number of > notches on one's belt, such quantifications are substantively > meaningless: a thousand initiations are not enough for some; one can > be more than enough for others. > > I have no interest in debating how qualified or otherwise this > person is to make these sorts of pronouncements; I do know that a > caveat is called for here. > > DB > > > , " cr_saba " <cr_saba wrote: >> >> Yes Rajesh, >> >> No doubt this is how it should be done. >> >> But I can't help but notice that Indian Tantra has suffered >> somewhat in this aspect. Authentic lineage of transmission >> of diksha or initiation is somewhat fuzzy, and it shouldn't be. >> >> I find that the Tantric Buddhist have done a good job in > preserving >> the authentic lineage of transmission, and when you get mantra >> initiation, you really feel the shakti-pat, it's a tangible >> experience. They even have a complete list going back in the >> transmission lineage to the original person who first bestowed it. >> >> When you receive initiation for a particular tantra/mantra, it >> doesn't imply that the person giving it is your Sat-Guru, it just >> means that he is authorized as part of the transmission lineage to >> impart the mantra initiation. Sat-Guru diksha, establishing the > guru- >> disciple relationship, is a completely different initiation. So > you >> can have several tantric initiations without violating your Sat- > Guru >> vows. >> >> The temple acharyas seemed to have absorbed the Sri Vidya and Kali >> tantric sadhanas, amoung others, into their repertoire, which is > what >> the tantric masters wanted to avoid from the beginning. >> >> But, it might be possible that they are part of an authentic > lineage >> of transmission as well, but I don't know this as a fact, nor am I >> sure it can be traced all the way back to its original guru param- >> para source. I'm still in the process of due diligence. >> >> The test is in the shakti-pat transmission. If during or after the >> initiation you don't feel the shakti-pat transmission, you can be >> sure the lineage transmission has been cut off somewhere along the >> line. After 18 tantric initiations that I've received, everyone >> present experienced the shakti-pat, without exception. >> >> The sadhanas are widely available, but finding the lineage-holder > is >> another ball game :---) >> >> Best Regards, >> Charles >> >> >> , Rajesh MR <mrrajeshvedam@> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE THE DISCUSSION ON KALI >> INITIATION .ACTUALLY KALI MANTRA SADHANA SHOULD DO WITH PROPER >> DEEKSHA FROM A GURU IN A PROPER WAY.THEN DO JAPA WITH NYASA >> DHYANA, ALL OTHER RITUALS.THEN DO PURASCARANA. >> > RAJESH.M.R >> > >> > >> > >> > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Obviously people find that to do service to her - seva is a big thing. I know that huge swaths of Ex-TM people follow her now just because of this thing they perceive to be 'heart-value' or bhakti, they having tired of more serious paths. Or course my wonder is always is there some real lasting wisdom to be gained or is it - as Nora says - just a new brand of permission to be acting spiritual. In which case it really is better to find that spirit within rather than without. But then again, we are material creatures, like it or not, and we need our idols. She therefore is a living Purana. - " Max Dashu " <maxdashu Monday, September 17, 2007 10:04 PM Re: Kali Mantra Initiation > >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as >>Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around >>with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those >>spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. > > Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more > than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way, > but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get > someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be > plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual > materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and > aware people. > > You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown > any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying > to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into > an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list. > Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do. > > If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is > there to be said. > > Max > -- > Max Dashu > > Art in Goddess Reverence > http://www.maxdashu.net > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Quite frankly I am surprised this is Shakti Sadhana Group with such narrow minded point of view , Ammachi can also instill in You a serious Path if that is what you are seeking besides is Bhakti Heart Value not serious enough, do You really need to be so serious anyway , She can offer any Path for You only if You are ready and open . It is then bit strange that in a Serious group like this people would freely jump at judging great Mahatmas, Why because they consider their lineage the purest and best most original, most connected to the source?. Such opinions are simply showing lack of spiritual maturity. Always my best regards to All Gurus to All Paths and their given lineages joanna > > Obviously people find that to do service to her - seva is a big thing. I > know that huge swaths of Ex-TM people follow her now just because of this > thing they perceive to be 'heart-value' or bhakti, they having tired of more > serious paths. > Or course my wonder is always is there some real lasting wisdom to be gained > or is it - as Nora says - just a new brand of permission to be acting > spiritual. In which case it really is better to find that spirit within > rather than without. But then again, we are material creatures, like it or > not, and we need our idols. She therefore is a living Purana. > > > - > " Max Dashu " <maxdashu > > Monday, September 17, 2007 10:04 PM > Re: Kali Mantra Initiation > > > > >Ammachi have become like a high quality branded product such as > >>Gucci, Channel etc that you all wear with pride and show off around > >>with. Your status symbol. She has become nothing more like those > >>spiritual commercialism you see mushroom all over the net. > > > > Nothing more? you really think, Nora, what she is doing is no more > > than that? there are certainly people who relate to her in this way, > > but that does not say anything about who she is. Anytime you get > > someone who has a mass impact on this scale, there are going to be > > plenty of people who don't get it and who act out crass spiritual > > materialism. But there are also a great many sincere seekers and > > aware people. > > > > You may see her devotees here as show-offs but why? no one has shown > > any more than the usual respect for their teacher. We aren't trying > > to convince anyone to join anything and refrained from getting into > > an argument about the recent criticisms of her posted on this list. > > Let them ask questions, i have no problem if they do. > > > > If you think all we are interested in is status symbols, what more is > > there to be said. > > > > Max > > -- > > Max Dashu > > > > Art in Goddess Reverence > > http://www.maxdashu.net > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Hi Charles: You wrote: *** You need to know: " Not everyone clueless. " *** I can only speak for myself: definitely clueless. *lol* *** I know what goes on in India, and better yet, I know what really goes in India.*** You may be the first. ;-) *** It's sad to see a grown up man pickled with envy and jealousy just because of 18 tantric initiations. *** Since my co-moderator Durga also pointed out that my reply to you had a " slightly sarcastic " tone, I guess I had that one coming. For the sake of the group's peace and sanity, I will stop the " lingam- polishing " escalation here. *lol* *** I was elucidating a point on shakti-pat not trying to impress. *** Me too, in fact. And I will say it again: In this field, quantity matters not. For some sadhakas one initiation is more than enough; others may feel the need for dozens. Neither type of sadhaka is " wrong " ; neither approach is incorrect. It is completely subjective; what is proper in any particular case is determined by the guru in light of a given sadhaka’s needs. Durga asked me: " Did you feel he [Charles] was trying to show off? I mean, trying to imply that he is one of the few who has been given diksha by a guru from a solid lineage? " I replied: Whether he was or wasn’t showing off is immaterial. Whether a lineage is " solid " and whether a diksha is legitimate are - - at least in many cases -- also subjective questions. I am certain that Charles would disagree, but in my opinion these are simply not the sorts of things upon which any one person can make accurate pronouncements that apply to all. Charles said: *** As a matter of fact, I have few initiations compared to the dedicated ones. *** And yet again, I will reply it is a subjective call. I would agree that many serious sadhakas have multiple initiations. But I also know some extremely accomplished sadhaks who have only one or two, even after several decades of intense practice †" and I would count great siddhas among these. They too are " dedicated ones, " I submit. Now, if you wish to believe that my comments are personal to you, and motivated by jealousy, envy, and so on, that is certainly your prerogative. In fact, however, my position is addressed generally to the group, and predicated on the teachings of my own satguru, who said: " Sapta koti maha mantrah [70 million mantras] are said to have emanated from the five faces of Shiva. [...] Fortunately, however, it is not necessary to practice all of them. Why complicate your life? Simplify it! How much can you achieve in a 100-year lifetime anyway? A hundred years isn't even a given yet; at best, you can probably start off at age 15 and keep going until you're 60 or 70. So you have maybe 50 years to work with. And in those 50 years, how many mantras can you get the siddhis of? Every one of them works; all of the Dasha Mahavidyas work †" so pick one path and stick to it. What's the point in reaching the same destination from all different directions? Each path offers its own unique experiences along the way, yes; but the goal remains the same. " You may feel differently, and that is your right. But this -- no more and no less -- is the point I am trying to make. Charles said: *** These are not my facts, these are THE facts. *** And I respectfully disagree. aim mAtangyai namaH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 If u are given saambahavi deeksha by a competent guru why run for a number of deekshaas.One well dug well is enough to drink for a lifetime then why go on digging little pits. When u have the sarvamantraasana vidya what use with other vidyaas? - In , " Devi Bhakta " <devi_bhakta wrote: > > Hi Charles: > > You wrote: > > *** You need to know: " Not everyone clueless. " *** > > I can only speak for myself: definitely clueless. *lol* > > *** I know what goes on in India, and better yet, I know what really > goes in India.*** > > You may be the first. ;-) > > *** It's sad to see a grown up man pickled with envy and jealousy > just because of 18 tantric initiations. *** > > Since my co-moderator Durga also pointed out that my reply to you > had a " slightly sarcastic " tone, I guess I had that one coming. For > the sake of the group's peace and sanity, I will stop the " lingam- > polishing " escalation here. *lol* > > *** I was elucidating a point on shakti-pat not trying to impress. > *** > > Me too, in fact. And I will say it again: In this field, quantity > matters not. For some sadhakas one initiation is more than enough; > others may feel the need for dozens. Neither type of sadhaka > is " wrong " ; neither approach is incorrect. It is completely > subjective; what is proper in any particular case is determined by > the guru in light of a given sadhaka’s needs. > > Durga asked me: " Did you feel he [Charles] was trying to show off? I > mean, trying to imply that he is one of the few who has been given > diksha by a guru from a solid lineage? " > > I replied: Whether he was or wasn’t showing off is immaterial. > Whether a lineage is " solid " and whether a diksha is legitimate are - > - at least in many cases -- also subjective questions. I am certain > that Charles would disagree, but in my opinion these are simply not > the sorts of things upon which any one person can make accurate > pronouncements that apply to all. > > Charles said: *** As a matter of fact, I have few initiations > compared to the dedicated ones. *** >[....] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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