Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have to agree, this story was so painful to read. Drona would not accept a low-caste student. He " created order " again by demanding that this deeply motivated and talented archer cut off his thumb, destroying his " stolen " ability. Back to the Sudras with you! how dare you aspire? and what of the egoism of Arjuna? To me the story seems steeped in caste injustice, and still makes me cringe. Max >One could look at the story in the Mahabharata like the one who >studies is arrogant or you could look at the story like Drona wants >Arjuna to be the greatest archer and makes darn sure he is or that >Drona didn't want a poor guy studying archery. Either way, it's not >my favorite story. -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives: Real women, global vision http://www.suppressedhistories.net Sacra Vulva, new poster: http://www.suppressedhistories.net/sacravulva.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 One can see many things in this story - the tireless devotion of Ekalavya, the cruelty of Drona, the injustice or justice (depending on your perspective), the rigidity of laws and traditions... the MB says that Drona was protecting the fate of Arjuna...some have speculated that this means Drona knew that Arjuna needed the confidence of being the best archer in order to eventually rescue the kingdom, and so that is why he demanded Ekalavya's thumb, for the greater good. And Ekalavya was killed by Krishna in battle, so some could even argue that Drona saved Krishna's life. But I agree on a personal level that it was cruel, indeed, and unnecessary. Much of the Mahabharata is full of cruelty, as is much of ancient literature around the world. But you must agree that there are a lot of potential lessons in this story, perhaps none of them particularly pleasant. But one lesson doesn't cancel out another. It's not my favorite story, either, but I'm not the one who brought it up. I was simply giving fuller context. Actually, if we're being creative with interpretation, it could be another cautionary tale to choose the right guru, because if you choose unwisely, you could lose your livelihood. Ekalavya's mother told him not to study with this guru - perhaps he should have listened to his MAA. -kulasundari On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > > > I have to agree, this story was so painful to read. Drona would not > accept a low-caste student. He " created order " again by demanding > that this deeply motivated and talented archer cut off his thumb, > destroying his " stolen " ability. Back to the Sudras with you! how > dare you aspire? and what of the egoism of Arjuna? To me the story > seems steeped in caste injustice, and still makes me cringe. > > Max > > >One could look at the story in the Mahabharata like the one who > >studies is arrogant or you could look at the story like Drona wants > >Arjuna to be the greatest archer and makes darn sure he is or that > >Drona didn't want a poor guy studying archery. Either way, it's not > >my favorite story. > > -- > Max Dashu > Suppressed Histories Archives: Real women, global vision > http://www.suppressedhistories.net > > Sacra Vulva, new poster: > http://www.suppressedhistories.net/sacravulva.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Namaskar, I am not going to refute the claims here, but I thought I would add to the context a little. The things described in this particular epic could also have much to do with the time period. While India's history has shown it has possessed ethical lessons that transcend the Western stories' ethical lessons in the majority of cases, the time period still matters. What could have been asked for, as unpleasant as it is now, might have not been as bad back then. Relativity is key when studying some of the things people do in certain time periods compared to now. Furthermore, war or the time prior or after always makes people do or demand things not otherwise asked for or demanded. And even then, as many theologians will say, it is the lessons of the story that matter. I think everyone here has mentioned such to one extent or another already, though. :-) People look back at Middle Eastern history and consider the code of Hammurabi a barbaric and unforgiving thing, but the spirit of the law was to stop crime from happening. Just back then, it was a different time period. And other factors likely played a part. Jai Ma! Aum Shanthi. Sincerely, Arya/Christina On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > I have to agree, this story was so painful to read. Drona would not > accept a low-caste student. He " created order " again by demanding > that this deeply motivated and talented archer cut off his thumb, > destroying his " stolen " ability. Back to the Sudras with you! how > dare you aspire? and what of the egoism of Arjuna? To me the story > seems steeped in caste injustice, and still makes me cringe. > > Max > > >One could look at the story in the Mahabharata like the one who > >studies is arrogant or you could look at the story like Drona wants > >Arjuna to be the greatest archer and makes darn sure he is or that > >Drona didn't want a poor guy studying archery. Either way, it's not > >my favorite story. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 >It's not my favorite story, either, but I'm not the one who >brought it up. I was simply giving fuller context. Yes, i know. But I believe that some of the stories in scripture are toxic, and their lessons are harmful because adharma is passed off as dharma. Someone with a great gift is put back in his social place, a strong message reinforcing man-made hierarchies. The comment that the character was not in fact Sudra is on the mark, he was Adivasi (and as such, probably a hell of an archer by cultural tradition). >Ekalavya's mother told him not to study with >this guru - perhaps he should have listened to his MAA. Indeed. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Is it not paradoxical that the same Ekalavya of whom Drona demanded the thumb fought the great war of MB by his side, on behalf of Duryodhana? More over, it was a war between cousins where the kshatriya clan fought the battles and a nishada (Ekalavya) was allowed to participate!  The epic poem was written by Vyasa who himself was born of a fisherwoman. Good or bad, I personally appreciate the truthful reporting of the episode in hte epic.  Compare this with another incident told in Ramayana. Lord Rama beheads a Sudra for performing penance to bring justice (!) to a wailing and grieving Brahmin who loses his new born children successively because of some aberration in the varna-dharma and Lord Rama was obligated to resort to the extreme step. Lord Rama, the most merciful (?) and my ishta daiva too.  JR --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: Max Dashu <maxdashu Re: the archer: that'll show him Saturday, January 30, 2010, 11:18 AM  >It's not my favorite story, either, but I'm not the one who >brought it up. I was simply giving fuller context. Yes, i know. But I believe that some of the stories in scripture are toxic, and their lessons are harmful because adharma is passed off as dharma. Someone with a great gift is put back in his social place, a strong message reinforcing man-made hierarchies. The comment that the character was not in fact Sudra is on the mark, he was Adivasi (and as such, probably a hell of an archer by cultural tradition). >Ekalavya's mother told him not to study with >this guru - perhaps he should have listened to his MAA. Indeed. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.