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Such a lot of words, this article, and not once does he address the

power imbalance that such men manipulate, nor the harm that they do

to naive female devotees who are convinced that whatever the guru

goes is all right-- at least until they are left hanging, isolated

with their pain and confusion. Where are the safeguards to protect

these children of the Mother who are seeking, who are injured in the

thousands? This has happened so many times, not just in Hindu

contexts but also in Buddhist and others. The young women suffer in

silence, thinking something is wrong with them, while those in the

know make excuses, saying this is a special form of grace, etc., and

it continues for years, until the lid is blown off --off that

particular guru's secret indulgences, while publicly presenting a

face of brahmacharya. Then it begins again, over and over.

 

It is not the scandal that is the problem, it is the abuse. What a

travesty of dharma.

 

Max

 

> do you all think it would be easier to control these scandals in

>the United States if (1) people were more open about sex as a part

>of a spiritual tradition and (2) everyone that were to engage in

>such acts were asked to sign a waiver (or a series of them) stating

>their intention? If people believed sex was really not taboo, why

>not be upfront with it and sign a consent agreement in front of

>witnesses? It seems to me that if people cannot be upfront about

>their actions that it is coming out of the lower manifestation of

>ego and not as a way to actually support dharma.

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It seems to me that Nithyananda should spend some time contemplating whether

sannyas is his calling. One should only really pursue that path if it is

impossible for one to follow any other. He may do better as a householder.

But then that comes with far less fame and fortune.

 

There is an excellent article on the issues you talk about, Max:

 

http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/caldwell.sarah.pdf

 

 

-kulasundari

 

 

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

 

>

>

> Such a lot of words, this article, and not once does he address the

> power imbalance that such men manipulate, nor the harm that they do

> to naive female devotees who are convinced that whatever the guru

> goes is all right-- at least until they are left hanging, isolated

> with their pain and confusion. Where are the safeguards to protect

> these children of the Mother who are seeking, who are injured in the

> thousands? This has happened so many times, not just in Hindu

> contexts but also in Buddhist and others. The young women suffer in

> silence, thinking something is wrong with them, while those in the

> know make excuses, saying this is a special form of grace, etc., and

> it continues for years, until the lid is blown off --off that

> particular guru's secret indulgences, while publicly presenting a

> face of brahmacharya. Then it begins again, over and over.

>

> It is not the scandal that is the problem, it is the abuse. What a

> travesty of dharma.

>

> Max

>

> > do you all think it would be easier to control these scandals in

> >the United States if (1) people were more open about sex as a part

> >of a spiritual tradition and (2) everyone that were to engage in

> >such acts were asked to sign a waiver (or a series of them) stating

> >their intention? If people believed sex was really not taboo, why

> >not be upfront with it and sign a consent agreement in front of

> >witnesses? It seems to me that if people cannot be upfront about

> >their actions that it is coming out of the lower manifestation of

> >ego and not as a way to actually support dharma.

>

>

>

 

 

 

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Based on that video footage, I think his only sin (if you could

call it that) was that he is lame in bed! Which is probably why

she pops him a tab of ecstasy or viagra or whatever.

 

As a tantric adept he should be better able to please his consort,

no? haha. This is really what the women are waiting for someone that can

talk, has

energy, and is good in bed. Unfortunately, bathing statues in milk

won't teach you these skills. ; )

 

Sorry for the blashpemy, but hey its a big universe out there.

 

-

" Kulasundari Devi " <sundari

 

Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:17 PM

Re: Re: Nityananda

 

 

It seems to me that Nithyananda should spend some time contemplating whether

sannyas is his calling. One should only really pursue that path if it is

impossible for one to follow any other. He may do better as a householder.

But then that comes with far less fame and fortune.

 

There is an excellent article on the issues you talk about, Max:

 

http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/caldwell.sarah.pdf

 

 

-kulasundari

 

 

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

 

>

>

> Such a lot of words, this article, and not once does he address the

> power imbalance that such men manipulate, nor the harm that they do

> to naive female devotees who are convinced that whatever the guru

> goes is all right-- at least until they are left hanging, isolated

> with their pain and confusion. Where are the safeguards to protect

> these children of the Mother who are seeking, who are injured in the

> thousands? This has happened so many times, not just in Hindu

> contexts but also in Buddhist and others. The young women suffer in

> silence, thinking something is wrong with them, while those in the

> know make excuses, saying this is a special form of grace, etc., and

> it continues for years, until the lid is blown off --off that

> particular guru's secret indulgences, while publicly presenting a

> face of brahmacharya. Then it begins again, over and over.

>

> It is not the scandal that is the problem, it is the abuse. What a

> travesty of dharma.

>

> Max

>

> > do you all think it would be easier to control these scandals in

> >the United States if (1) people were more open about sex as a part

> >of a spiritual tradition and (2) everyone that were to engage in

> >such acts were asked to sign a waiver (or a series of them) stating

> >their intention? If people believed sex was really not taboo, why

> >not be upfront with it and sign a consent agreement in front of

> >witnesses? It seems to me that if people cannot be upfront about

> >their actions that it is coming out of the lower manifestation of

> >ego and not as a way to actually support dharma.

>

>

>

 

 

 

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Thank you, Max and Kulasundari:

 

I did not read your posts until after I made mine; I wish I had. You both make

excellent points. I obviously agree with Max's observation about " so many words "

in Malhotra's article and hope that I did not underplay the women's role by

characterising the sex as being between consenting adults, and moving on to the

" branding " issues.

 

Upon reflection, " consent " does become a very slippery issue indeed when you are

talking about charismatic individuals like this, especially if they are using

perceived spiritual authority to sway the " consenter's " judgment. I have printed

out the article Kulasundari linked, and I look forward to reading it.

 

DB

 

 

, Kulasundari Devi <sundari wrote:

>

> It seems to me that Nithyananda should spend some time contemplating whether

> sannyas is his calling. One should only really pursue that path if it is

> impossible for one to follow any other. He may do better as a householder.

> But then that comes with far less fame and fortune.

>

> There is an excellent article on the issues you talk about, Max:

>

> http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/caldwell.sarah.pdf

>

>

> -kulasundari

>

>

> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Such a lot of words, this article, and not once does he address the

> > power imbalance that such men manipulate, nor the harm that they do

> > to naive female devotees who are convinced that whatever the guru

> > goes is all right-- at least until they are left hanging, isolated

> > with their pain and confusion. Where are the safeguards to protect

> > these children of the Mother who are seeking, who are injured in the

> > thousands? This has happened so many times, not just in Hindu

> > contexts but also in Buddhist and others. The young women suffer in

> > silence, thinking something is wrong with them, while those in the

> > know make excuses, saying this is a special form of grace, etc., and

> > it continues for years, until the lid is blown off --off that

> > particular guru's secret indulgences, while publicly presenting a

> > face of brahmacharya. Then it begins again, over and over.

> >

> > It is not the scandal that is the problem, it is the abuse. What a

> > travesty of dharma.

> >

> > Max

> >

> > > do you all think it would be easier to control these scandals in

> > >the United States if (1) people were more open about sex as a part

> > >of a spiritual tradition and (2) everyone that were to engage in

> > >such acts were asked to sign a waiver (or a series of them) stating

> > >their intention? If people believed sex was really not taboo, why

> > >not be upfront with it and sign a consent agreement in front of

> > >witnesses? It seems to me that if people cannot be upfront about

> > >their actions that it is coming out of the lower manifestation of

> > >ego and not as a way to actually support dharma.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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>Upon reflection, " consent " does become a very slippery issue indeed

>when you are talking about charismatic individuals like this,

>especially if they are using perceived spiritual authority to sway

>the " consenter's " judgment.

 

I'd say it's more than perceived, it is the very real, colossal

prestige of the Guru that is operating here. I see it still at work

in Caldwell's essay. She recognizes there is a problem, yet still

wants to have it both ways, and quotes more from those who thought it

was all a good thing, hardly anything from those who were harmed. I

knew women who were involved in this community, and heard from them

the horror and sense of betrayal that resulted from M's actions.

 

J. Radhakrishnan is quite right: siddhis are not everything. An

enlightened person does not take advantage of other human beings. I

think Caldwell is mistaken in equating any critique of such corrupt

gurudom with a Western perspective. There are in fact Asian voices

which have raised these issues, including Gayatri Spivak who goes

into the issue of instrumentalizing young women, often of lower

classes, for the benefit of male Tantriks, with some mordant remarks

about such usage, and examples from Tantric literature of the more

patriarchal stripe.

 

I would like to think that real Kaula practice is very much

otherwise, not based on extreme power imbalances of privileged male

gurus and young, pretty, inexperienced female devotees flattered by

the attention they are getting, and unaware of the price they may

pay, and enjoined to secrecy that injures them in the long run, in

order to protect the guru's prestige. I'd like to believe that real

Tantrik practice is based on adoring Shakti, not attempting to

colonize or vampirize her through the body of (only) a beautiful

young woman. That it would go far beyond the bondage of toxic social

norms, that its practice would not be entangled with the larger

cultural pattern of older man with authority, young woman who is

subordinate to him. Or as some scriptures suggest, even purchased or

otherwise acquired for that role.

 

Rather I think genuine Kaula practice would be based on spiritual

elevation of both partners, throwing off the samskaras of gender

inequality, and reaching to experience truth beyond the disfunctional

patterns we know all too well.

 

Max

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Namaste:

I'm interested in hearing this great conspiracy, but I doubt it's anything

stunningly new.

 

Throughout history, people with power have used it to take advantage of

those without, and sadly that included folks with spiritual and mental

powers as well. Tie in the imbalances that exist between the role of the

genders and sexuality in our culture, and it will always yield a nasty

salacious mix.

 

I'm sure Swami Nityananda's tale intersects with church movements and irked

ex-devotees, but that too isn't very new. The Abrahamic monotheists have

been dead set on interfering with our faith for centuries now.

 

In any case, I wish all involved peace, and perhaps folks who are not ready

to become Brahmachari won't actually join monastic orders? Seriously, our

Dharma has ways for everyone to approach the Divine. and we don't force our

clergy to become celibate like the Catholics experiencing a truly horrific

child sexual abuse scandal and institutional coverup.

 

 

Jai Maa.

 

-Santo

aum shanti shanti shantih.

" The world is like the impression left by the telling of a story. " - from

the Yoga VÄsiṣṭha

 

 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Abhimanyu Giri <abhipreet wrote:

 

>

>

> I am sorry to say that none of you know the great conspiracy behind this

> whole episode ! if anyone is interested to know about it i will post it in

> my next mail.

>

>

> On 19 March 2010 05:38, Max Dashu <maxdashu <maxdashu%40lmi.net>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> Such a lot of words, this article, and not once does he address the

> power imbalance that such men manipulate, nor the harm that they do

> to naive female devotees [....]

>

>

>

 

 

 

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