Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 thank you, Nirmalanandaji, for sharing your thoughts (and they are worth a great deal to me) and for the abundant blessings! flowing, Henny In , Nirmalananda Saraswati <nirmalananda1008 wrote: > > Namaste Henny, > > Yes, Yes, Yes! I would say (for what ever it's worth) do puja, go to mass, listen to christian chant and listen to Maa and Swami chant. Love Mary and Jesus, and love Maa and Swamiji. It's ok to go in and out of the different bhavas. It will all work out in the end. Don't fight it, just flow with it > > God and Mary bless you, > Divine Mother bless you, and > Lord Shiva bless you. > > Jai Maa > > henny_v_i <henny_v_i wrote: Dear Vish, Tanmaya and all, > > the story about the watch has given me much food for thought. > Especially the part where it says: " Then, one day he suddenly left the > monastery. There was no particular reason; it just seemed to him to be > the right thing to do. " > Lately, I have had some doubts of my own and perhaps it is a good > thing to put them on the table now, before they become too big to > handle and running away seems the right thing to do. I hope those who > read this will understand I do not mean to be disrespectful to Shree > Maa or Swamiji, or their teachings, in any way. > Over the past year or so, I have made an effort to familiarize myself > with the teachings and practices Shree Maa and Swamiji so generously > share with us. I learnt how to do puja, how to recite, how to chant. I > read most of the books, and listened to Maa's songs all the time. I > learned to love Her and Swamiji more and more. So I was overjoyed that > now with the webcam, I could finally see the celebrations and attend > classes. > But now a strange thing has happened: to watch the celebrations did > not make me particularly happy. It rather made me sad, as I was > shocked to discover. Partly, this was because I could not physically > be there, and felt isolated at my desk on my own, but for the greater > part it was that I felt an outsider in another way. I felt as if I had > tried to learn a new language and suddenly realized I would never be > able to pass for a native speaker. As if a gap had appeared inside > which I could not cross. And as the days passed, and more celebrations > and classes followed, I found myself longing for the crisp cool sounds > of Gregorian chant and for the 'language' of the tradition I was > raised in. I longed for the stories I know and for the familiar words. > I felt homesick for the psalms and the saints who have inspired me > through the years, and instead of Maa Durga on Her lion, in meditation > I thought of the Mother of God crowned with Glory. And as I performed > puja, every word acquired new meaning, because it made perfect sense > applied both to Shiva and to the Lord Jesus. I saw Maa reflected in > Mary, Mary in Maa. > Now, recently it has been said here (by you, Vish?) that Maa > celebrates Christmas and Eastern which as much devotion as Shivaratri > or other festivals. I have seen Swamiji perform both puja and mass at > Christmas. But They know things that I do not and Their consciousness > embraces all. There is no conflict. But I struggle with this: although > I know that to love God is all, no matter the name or form we choose. > But is it possible to combine two 'languages' for the simple devotee > without becoming hopelessly confused? Once a member of this family > told me it is better to stick to one tradition, at least if you mean > business (I paraphrase), and I understand why this is so. But the > heart has its own ideas and has started to speak now in this language, > now in that. Is it the right thing to do to listen to both voices and > give expression to both? Is it the right thing to do to combine > Sanskrit and Latin? Is it wise to read St Teresa and Shankara? To sing > with Shree Maa and with the Montserrat choir? To recite Lord's Prayer > and the Guru Gita? Or is this desire to make both worlds one, to > integrate those parts, the equivalent of the gold watch given by our > parents, which, although beautiful in itself and presented with the > best intentions, is best thrown away before one gets carried away? > > I would be very happy to hear the thoughts of my brothers and sisters > on this matter and I wonder if perhaps someone else, coming from a > Christian background, has had the same experience. > > with love, > Henny > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > Dear Tanmaya, > > > > You never told that story before. It made me feel sad too. I have > > observed the Guru put tremendous love and attention on their > > disciples. Then, one day, for no reason I can fathom, the disciple > > departs. The Master gives and gives, but, if the student stops > > receiving, the connection is severed. > > The ego is so crafty. We must be so vigilant and stay in contact > with > > the Master, no matter how confused we become, because, the Master > > holds the key. They will always see thru the clouds of delusion and > > can remove our doubts. As long as we want them to. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In , " ty_maa " <dsjames@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > " No idea how crafty " . > > > > > > Dear Vishweshwar, > > > > > > I'd like to share a story (maybe I told it before long back) about > the > > > career of a monastic brother. > > > > > > This brother had all the good qualities: he could meditate, he > knew > > > Sanskrit, he was a good singer of devotional songs, he was very > > > personable--and the favorite of all the visiting abbotts. He was > > > generally thought to be a sure success in spirtiual life. > > > > > > Although, like the others, he had only limited communication with > his > > > family in the outside world, once, on his birthday, he walked into > the > > > abbott's room to joyfully show his Guru the new watch which his > parents > > > had just sent him as a gift. > > > > > > To his suprise and chagrin , the Guru quietly looked up for a > moment, > > > and then, suddenly and forcefully pointiing to the corner of his > room, > > > said, " throw it in the wastebasket-- now! > > > > > > The brother was unable to speak, he was so dumbfounded by the > order. He > > > very slowly backed out of the room and silently went up the stairs > to > > > his own room to ponder what had just happened. He knew that he had > > > disobeyed his Guru; and that caused him great sorrow. But he also > > > thought that the order his Guru had given him was so outlandish > and so > > > unreasonable that he gradually began to rationalize his response. > > > > > > As time passed, the Guru was as loving and kind to him as > > > ever--although, it gradually became apparent to the brother that > the > > > Guru's conversation with him was on a more general, even somewhat > > > superficial, level than before. His Guru no longer spoke to him > about > > > his spiritual life and training; rather, he conversed with him > more as > > > he did to visitors-- about their families, the state of the world, > and > > > so forth. > > > > > > This hurt the brother; and he was wise enough to understand that > he had > > > broken a special relationship between himself and his Guru by his > > > disobedience;. Nevertheless, he couldn't bring himself to return > to the > > > Guru's room and dispose of the watch which his parents had so > lovingly > > > sent him for his birthday, as he was certain he must do to set > right his > > > mistake. Why was the Guru so unreasonable? It was only a watch! > There > > > was no danger--it was not something worldly after all-just a > useful tool > > > like many other brothers wore. > > > > > > Things went on like this for a while; and then the watch stopped. > This > > > upset the brother very much because it was expensive and still > > > practically new. And he was quite sure the Abbott would not budget > for a > > > watch repair given the circumstances. In any case, he didn't want > to > > > bring the subject up. So, after some thought, he decided to go to > the > > > library and get a book on watch repair. Which he did. > > > > > > To his great delight, the brother found that he was indeed able to > > > repair the watch using the book, and that it again was running and > > > keeping perfect time. And it didn't cost anybody a thing. In fact, > he > > > was so happy about his success that he offered to repair another > > > brother's watch that had lately stopped--and he was successful > with that > > > one too! > > > > > > He began to think that he could be of useful service to the > monastery by > > > this means, and he was soon studying more about the workings of > watches, > > > and working on them late into the night. He didn't do this during > the > > > normal hours because he still thought that his Guru might > disapprove. > > > > > > Then, one day he suddenly left the monastery. There was no > particular > > > reason; it just seemed to him to be the right thing to do. The > Swamis > > > and his peers were suprised and disappointed, but there was > nothing they > > > could say to change his mind. So, he left and got a job in a > nearby > > > hardware store. After that, he joined one of the armed services. > > > > > > When he was released from the service, he used his G.I. loan to > go to > > > the University at Berleley for a degree in engineering. Before > long, > > > after graduating, he found himself in Silicon Valley, where he > soon > > > started a company which manufactured a computer chip of his own > design. > > > And he sold a lot of them--a whole lot. > > > > > > In fact, soon, though still quite a young man, he had become a > > > multimillionare. > > > > > > I had the opportunity to see him once. One day, when I was paying > a > > > visit to his old ashram he also stopped by that day for the first > time > > > after leaving. He drove up in an expensive red sports cars, and a > pretty > > > blond girl waited in the car while he entered the ashram for a few > > > minutes. > > > > > > All the Swamis and brothers greeted him and spoke in a very > friendly way > > > about his successful life and other things in general. After a > short > > > visit he drove off, and the brothers returned to their various > tasks. > > > > > > I can't exactly say why, but for some time afterward I felt a > great > > > emptiness and loneliness somewhere inside. > > > It couldn't be for the young man who had just driven off in his > red > > > sports car because he was full of joy and his life was exciting > and > > > before him. Nor could my sadness have been for the brothers; they > very > > > soon forgot him in their tasks and spiritual practice. > > > > > > Maybe it was for the old Abbott and Guru--who saw more than he > could > > > explain, but who could only speak his Truth as he saw it, even as > he > > > knew that it could not change what was to be. > > > > > > Yes, the loneliness I felt must have been for the old Abbott who > had > > > lost his monastic son. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Tanmaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > A perfect statement. Action, either for thee or me. > > > > I remember once talking to Maa about some drama my ego was > creating. > > > > I said I could not believe how crafty the ego was. Maa said, in > > > > essense, " you have not idea how crafty " . > > > > I remember that often, in fact daily, as I watch my small self > get me > > > > into one problem after another. > > > > Fortunately, She is there to catch me when I fall, and She > encourages > > > > me to get up, dust off, and get back on the bucking bronco. > > > > How truly blessed to have Her as a Guru and Mother. > > > > > > > > Jai Ma Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , shreemaadevotee@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Daily Reflection > > > > > March 3 - Spirituality > > > > > > > > > > Every action that we produce in life has two possibilities. > It will > > > > be for > > > > > me or for Thee. Either I am acting motivated by selfishness > or I am > > > > acting > > > > > motivated by surrender. There are some really fine shades of > gray > > > > where we think > > > > > we are surrendering, but are actually enhancing our egotism. > > > > > > > > > > from The Guru and the Goddess > > > > > Copyright 1995, 1998 Devi Mandir Publications > > > > > Third Edition > > > > > www.shreemaa.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Namaste Henny !Your'e welcome. At the same time, would like to say there is value in these words that were written by another devotee:"A personal note: I have chosen to renounce all other paths, "isms", > as a means of securing my way to the end. It has proven to be a > valuable tool, especially during what Christian Mystics call "The > Dark Night Of The Soul".It seems this is true also. Without delving unneccesarilly into my own ego, I would say that I sometimes feel the inspiration to go to mass and hear the beautiful old hymns, or to pray the rosary. The criteria I go by is this; that no matter what happens, I never miss a day sitting in my asana for the appointed amount of time and doing puja, or chanting Chandi or one of the other texts. That's the base line - the foundation. I never let another spiritual interest take my heart away from Maa and Swami, and the sadhana we all do that comes from Maa and Swami. That's the lifeline. There might come a day when it no longer seems appropriate to do anything else but this Hindu dharma, that day just hasn't come yet.For those of us raised in Christianity, completely turning away can seem like forgeting our ancestoral memory, and cutting ourselves off at the root. Since in our Hindu path, honoring our ancestors is very important, there seems to be a place along the way for participating in the religion or our ancestory. It's a fine line. There is definately great value in sticking to one chosen path with determination and commitment.It seems both things are true.Jai Maa !Jai Swamiji !henny_v_i <henny_v_i wrote: thank you, Nirmalanandaji, for sharing your thoughts (and they are worth a great deal to me) and for the abundant blessings! flowing, Henny In , Nirmalananda Saraswati <nirmalananda1008 wrote: > > Namaste Henny, > > Yes, Yes, Yes! I would say (for what ever it's worth) do puja, go to mass, listen to christian chant and listen to Maa and Swami chant. Love Mary and Jesus, and love Maa and Swamiji. It's ok to go in and out of the different bhavas. It will all work out in the end. Don't fight it, just flow with it > > God and Mary bless you, > Divine Mother bless you, and > Lord Shiva bless you. > > Jai Maa > > henny_v_i <henny_v_i wrote: Dear Vish, Tanmaya and all, > > the story about the watch has given me much food for thought. > Especially the part where it says: "Then, one day he suddenly left the > monastery. There was no particular reason; it just seemed to him to be > the right thing to do." > Lately, I have had some doubts of my own and perhaps it is a good > thing to put them on the table now, before they become too big to > handle and running away seems the right thing to do. I hope those who > read this will understand I do not mean to be disrespectful to Shree > Maa or Swamiji, or their teachings, in any way. > Over the past year or so, I have made an effort to familiarize myself > with the teachings and practices Shree Maa and Swamiji so generously > share with us. I learnt how to do puja, how to recite, how to chant. I > read most of the books, and listened to Maa's songs all the time. I > learned to love Her and Swamiji more and more. So I was overjoyed that > now with the webcam, I could finally see the celebrations and attend > classes. > But now a strange thing has happened: to watch the celebrations did > not make me particularly happy. It rather made me sad, as I was > shocked to discover. Partly, this was because I could not physically > be there, and felt isolated at my desk on my own, but for the greater > part it was that I felt an outsider in another way. I felt as if I had > tried to learn a new language and suddenly realized I would never be > able to pass for a native speaker. As if a gap had appeared inside > which I could not cross. And as the days passed, and more celebrations > and classes followed, I found myself longing for the crisp cool sounds > of Gregorian chant and for the 'language' of the tradition I was > raised in. I longed for the stories I know and for the familiar words. > I felt homesick for the psalms and the saints who have inspired me > through the years, and instead of Maa Durga on Her lion, in meditation > I thought of the Mother of God crowned with Glory. And as I performed > puja, every word acquired new meaning, because it made perfect sense > applied both to Shiva and to the Lord Jesus. I saw Maa reflected in > Mary, Mary in Maa. > Now, recently it has been said here (by you, Vish?) that Maa > celebrates Christmas and Eastern which as much devotion as Shivaratri > or other festivals. I have seen Swamiji perform both puja and mass at > Christmas. But They know things that I do not and Their consciousness > embraces all. There is no conflict. But I struggle with this: although > I know that to love God is all, no matter the name or form we choose. > But is it possible to combine two 'languages' for the simple devotee > without becoming hopelessly confused? Once a member of this family > told me it is better to stick to one tradition, at least if you mean > business (I paraphrase), and I understand why this is so. But the > heart has its own ideas and has started to speak now in this language, > now in that. Is it the right thing to do to listen to both voices and > give expression to both? Is it the right thing to do to combine > Sanskrit and Latin? Is it wise to read St Teresa and Shankara? To sing > with Shree Maa and with the Montserrat choir? To recite Lord's Prayer > and the Guru Gita? Or is this desire to make both worlds one, to > integrate those parts, the equivalent of the gold watch given by our > parents, which, although beautiful in itself and presented with the > best intentions, is best thrown away before one gets carried away? > > I would be very happy to hear the thoughts of my brothers and sisters > on this matter and I wonder if perhaps someone else, coming from a > Christian background, has had the same experience. > > with love, > Henny > > , "inspectionconnection108" > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > Dear Tanmaya, > > > > You never told that story before. It made me feel sad too. I have > > observed the Guru put tremendous love and attention on their > > disciples. Then, one day, for no reason I can fathom, the disciple > > departs. The Master gives and gives, but, if the student stops > > receiving, the connection is severed. > > The ego is so crafty. We must be so vigilant and stay in contact > with > > the Master, no matter how confused we become, because, the Master > > holds the key. They will always see thru the clouds of delusion and > > can remove our doubts. As long as we want them to. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In , "ty_maa" <dsjames@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "No idea how crafty". > > > > > > Dear Vishweshwar, > > > > > > I'd like to share a story (maybe I told it before long back) about > the > > > career of a monastic brother. > > > > > > This brother had all the good qualities: he could meditate, he > knew > > > Sanskrit, he was a good singer of devotional songs, he was very > > > personable--and the favorite of all the visiting abbotts. He was > > > generally thought to be a sure success in spirtiual life. > > > > > > Although, like the others, he had only limited communication with > his > > > family in the outside world, once, on his birthday, he walked into > the > > > abbott's room to joyfully show his Guru the new watch which his > parents > > > had just sent him as a gift. > > > > > > To his suprise and chagrin , the Guru quietly looked up for a > moment, > > > and then, suddenly and forcefully pointiing to the corner of his > room, > > > said, "throw it in the wastebasket-- now! > > > > > > The brother was unable to speak, he was so dumbfounded by the > order. He > > > very slowly backed out of the room and silently went up the stairs > to > > > his own room to ponder what had just happened. He knew that he had > > > disobeyed his Guru; and that caused him great sorrow. But he also > > > thought that the order his Guru had given him was so outlandish > and so > > > unreasonable that he gradually began to rationalize his response. > > > > > > As time passed, the Guru was as loving and kind to him as > > > ever--although, it gradually became apparent to the brother that > the > > > Guru's conversation with him was on a more general, even somewhat > > > superficial, level than before. His Guru no longer spoke to him > about > > > his spiritual life and training; rather, he conversed with him > more as > > > he did to visitors-- about their families, the state of the world, > and > > > so forth. > > > > > > This hurt the brother; and he was wise enough to understand that > he had > > > broken a special relationship between himself and his Guru by his > > > disobedience;. Nevertheless, he couldn't bring himself to return > to the > > > Guru's room and dispose of the watch which his parents had so > lovingly > > > sent him for his birthday, as he was certain he must do to set > right his > > > mistake. Why was the Guru so unreasonable? It was only a watch! > There > > > was no danger--it was not something worldly after all-just a > useful tool > > > like many other brothers wore. > > > > > > Things went on like this for a while; and then the watch stopped. > This > > > upset the brother very much because it was expensive and still > > > practically new. And he was quite sure the Abbott would not budget > for a > > > watch repair given the circumstances. In any case, he didn't want > to > > > bring the subject up. So, after some thought, he decided to go to > the > > > library and get a book on watch repair. Which he did. > > > > > > To his great delight, the brother found that he was indeed able to > > > repair the watch using the book, and that it again was running and > > > keeping perfect time. And it didn't cost anybody a thing. In fact, > he > > > was so happy about his success that he offered to repair another > > > brother's watch that had lately stopped--and he was successful > with that > > > one too! > > > > > > He began to think that he could be of useful service to the > monastery by > > > this means, and he was soon studying more about the workings of > watches, > > > and working on them late into the night. He didn't do this during > the > > > normal hours because he still thought that his Guru might > disapprove. > > > > > > Then, one day he suddenly left the monastery. There was no > particular > > > reason; it just seemed to him to be the right thing to do. The > Swamis > > > and his peers were suprised and disappointed, but there was > nothing they > > > could say to change his mind. So, he left and got a job in a > nearby > > > hardware store. After that, he joined one of the armed services. > > > > > > When he was released from the service, he used his G.I. loan to > go to > > > the University at Berleley for a degree in engineering. Before > long, > > > after graduating, he found himself in Silicon Valley, where he > soon > > > started a company which manufactured a computer chip of his own > design. > > > And he sold a lot of them--a whole lot. > > > > > > In fact, soon, though still quite a young man, he had become a > > > multimillionare. > > > > > > I had the opportunity to see him once. One day, when I was paying > a > > > visit to his old ashram he also stopped by that day for the first > time > > > after leaving. He drove up in an expensive red sports cars, and a > pretty > > > blond girl waited in the car while he entered the ashram for a few > > > minutes. > > > > > > All the Swamis and brothers greeted him and spoke in a very > friendly way > > > about his successful life and other things in general. After a > short > > > visit he drove off, and the brothers returned to their various > tasks. > > > > > > I can't exactly say why, but for some time afterward I felt a > great > > > emptiness and loneliness somewhere inside. > > > It couldn't be for the young man who had just driven off in his > red > > > sports car because he was full of joy and his life was exciting > and > > > before him. Nor could my sadness have been for the brothers; they > very > > > soon forgot him in their tasks and spiritual practice. > > > > > > Maybe it was for the old Abbott and Guru--who saw more than he > could > > > explain, but who could only speak his Truth as he saw it, even as > he > > > knew that it could not change what was to be. > > > > > > Yes, the loneliness I felt must have been for the old Abbott who > had > > > lost his monastic son. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Tanmaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "inspectionconnection108" > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > A perfect statement. Action, either for thee or me. > > > > I remember once talking to Maa about some drama my ego was > creating. > > > > I said I could not believe how crafty the ego was. Maa said, in > > > > essense, "you have not idea how crafty". > > > > I remember that often, in fact daily, as I watch my small self > get me > > > > into one problem after another. > > > > Fortunately, She is there to catch me when I fall, and She > encourages > > > > me to get up, dust off, and get back on the bucking bronco. > > > > How truly blessed to have Her as a Guru and Mother. > > > > > > > > Jai Ma Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , shreemaadevotee@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Daily Reflection > > > > > March 3 - Spirituality > > > > > > > > > > Every action that we produce in life has two possibilities. > It will > > > > be for > > > > > me or for Thee. Either I am acting motivated by selfishness > or I am > > > > acting > > > > > motivated by surrender. There are some really fine shades of > gray > > > > where we think > > > > > we are surrendering, but are actually enhancing our egotism. > > > > > > > > > > from The Guru and the Goddess > > > > > Copyright 1995, 1998 Devi Mandir Publications > > > > > Third Edition > > > > > www.shreemaa.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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