Guest guest Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 NAMASTE: Swami's statement may seem oversimplified, but it is focused on those whose samskaras have presented them with enough clarity and knowledge to understand his remarks. Unfortunately, there are those who are not ready to hear them. For example, my brother, depressed for 25 years, will not accept any other reality than his depression. I can talk to him until I am blue in the face, and present volumes of knowledge and experience of higher states of consciousness, from all points of view, and from different religious and mystical traditions, but, he does not accept one word as truth. When he is in a state of despair, he feels overwhelmed. Life is bleak and meaningless. There is no " objectivity " , only subjectivity. The small self is overshadowed by the stress and strain of life. He has no grasp on the " eternal Self " , only on the relative world of change and fluctuations of the emotions and mind. All these situations are described so well in the Chandi. He is trapped by the great ego. So, that is my brothers' state of consciousness, living a life of quiet despair, going to work, and doing chores, marking time till death. No higher goals, no vision of a better life. But, for those of us whose samskaras have lead us to Maa and Swami, and have experienced some sweet wisdom and experience of the Divine, then, we have the power to implement the techniques Swami teaches. As in every aspect of our life, we have options and can decide what course of action to follow: 1. we can give up, surrender to the despair, and do nothing. Or, 2. employ the techniques Swami recommends. It is my personal experience that when despair comes, and it does, I have to consciously remember why I am on this Earth, what are my highest goals, and double my efforts to move thru the experience back to MYSELF, MY GOD SELF. Sure, it takes work, effort, and great focus. But, that is life. That is sadhana, that is the friction, the heat, which helps us grow. To me, Swami's message is not simplistic, but, profoundly inspiring and " right to the point " . For me, HE HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. In a few pithy comments, he reminds us of the reason for our birth, and the goal of all existence. Now it is up to us. Jai Maa Jai Swami vishweshwar > NAMASTE: > Upon reading this message about despair and positive > thinking, it is a poignant message, but isn't it > oversimplifying? If we are in a state of despair what > about objectivity towards our subjectivity? Looking > without preference at both positive and negatives, and > not being attached to one or the other, or to react > with ones emotions, until a state of equilibrium has > been reached through disequilibrium, the pendulum that > swings from one extreme sways to it's opposite until > finally it rests in the center? To stay in equanimity? > Pranams, > e > --- inspectionconnection108 > <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > > NAMASTE: One evening Swami answered a question from > > a devotee about > > despair. > > He said: " despair is something we all experience, so > > we use the > > obstacles to help demonstrate our love. To remember > > the sense of > > privilege to remember God. It is not the body > > hurting, it is the > > mind. Keep the mind on the positive, on the Grace > > that we can > > remember God in this life. Be thankful, be > > grateful, stay positive, > > focus on the positive. > > God gave us these circumstances because we were too > > far from Her. > > Make friends and accept the circumstances. > > Acceptance of the > > situration makes it no longer a problem, just a > > situation to apply our > > energies to solve. > > Can we remember God when we have everything in > > place? It is easy to > > remember God when we are in trouble. > > Pain is the teaching > > Pleasure is the examination. " > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Hi Eric, Yes, Swamiji does tend to simplify things a lot more than I would like a lot of the time, but I have come to the conclusion that what he is doing is trying to present an image of the highest ideal, a particular and appropriate bhava for the given situation. As far as objectivity and nonattachment are concerned, Swamiji is much more interested in teaching passionate devotion to God. But they are not mutually exclusive. The natural outgrowth of passionate devotion to God is dispassion for everything else. Jai Maa! Chris , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1 wrote: > > NAMASTE: > Upon reading this message about despair and positive > thinking, it is a poignant message, but isn't it > oversimplifying? If we are in a state of despair what > about objectivity towards our subjectivity? Looking > without preference at both positive and negatives, and > not being attached to one or the other, or to react > with ones emotions, until a state of equilibrium has > been reached through disequilibrium, the pendulum that > swings from one extreme sways to it's opposite until > finally it rests in the center? To stay in equanimity? > Pranams, > e > --- inspectionconnection108 > <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > > NAMASTE: One evening Swami answered a question from > > a devotee about > > despair. > > He said: " despair is something we all experience, so > > we use the > > obstacles to help demonstrate our love. To remember > > the sense of > > privilege to remember God. It is not the body > > hurting, it is the > > mind. Keep the mind on the positive, on the Grace > > that we can > > remember God in this life. Be thankful, be > > grateful, stay positive, > > focus on the positive. > > God gave us these circumstances because we were too > > far from Her. > > Make friends and accept the circumstances. > > Acceptance of the > > situration makes it no longer a problem, just a > > situation to apply our > > energies to solve. > > Can we remember God when we have everything in > > place? It is easy to > > remember God when we are in trouble. > > Pain is the teaching > > Pleasure is the examination. " > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Namaste Chris, Thanks for the clarification. What you have wrote makes a great deal of sense, and I respect Swamiji's position with regards to passionate devotion to God (and dispassionate renunciation of all else). The wise integration of passion and dispassion in the same path you have kindly elucidated seems to reflect the essence of the Chandi. All of Swamiji's Maa's and all your messages(everyone here), have been so uplifting, during the sankalpa, I had to start over immediately, and today felt compelled to read the entire Chandi again all the way through. The Shakthi just seems to Aim Hrim Krim through ones entire consciousness. Very humbling and awe inspiring, dhanyavaad. Ete gandha pushpe! Om Hreem Aadhaara Shakthaaye Kamalasanaaya namaha Svaahaa! Jai Maa, Jai Swamiji, Jai Devi Mandir Kula Kutumbakam, Pranams, -eric --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote: > Hi Eric, > > Yes, Swamiji does tend to simplify things a lot more > than I would like > a lot of the time, but I have come to the conclusion > that what he is > doing is trying to present an image of the highest > ideal, a particular > and appropriate bhava for the given situation. > > As far as objectivity and nonattachment are > concerned, Swamiji is much > more interested in teaching passionate devotion to > God. But they are > not mutually exclusive. The natural outgrowth of > passionate devotion > to God is dispassion for everything else. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > , Eric Cassils > <Quanchula1 wrote: > > > > NAMASTE: > > Upon reading this message about despair and > positive > > thinking, it is a poignant message, but isn't it > > oversimplifying? If we are in a state of despair > what > > about objectivity towards our subjectivity? > Looking > > without preference at both positive and negatives, > and > > not being attached to one or the other, or to > react > > with ones emotions, until a state of equilibrium > has > > been reached through disequilibrium, the pendulum > that > > swings from one extreme sways to it's opposite > until > > finally it rests in the center? To stay in > equanimity? > > Pranams, > > e > > --- inspectionconnection108 > > <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > > > > NAMASTE: One evening Swami answered a question > from > > > a devotee about > > > despair. > > > He said: " despair is something we all > experience, so > > > we use the > > > obstacles to help demonstrate our love. To > remember > > > the sense of > > > privilege to remember God. It is not the body > > > hurting, it is the > > > mind. Keep the mind on the positive, on the > Grace > > > that we can > > > remember God in this life. Be thankful, be > > > grateful, stay positive, > > > focus on the positive. > > > God gave us these circumstances because we were > too > > > far from Her. > > > Make friends and accept the circumstances. > > > Acceptance of the > > > situration makes it no longer a problem, just a > > > situation to apply our > > > energies to solve. > > > Can we remember God when we have everything in > > > place? It is easy to > > > remember God when we are in trouble. > > > Pain is the teaching > > > Pleasure is the examination. " > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > > with the Search movie showtime shortcut. > > http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news > > > > > ______________________________\ ____Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. http://tv./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Namaste Vishweshwar and Shankari Kali, The only reason I raised the issue about the possibility of oversimplifying is to clarify for those like me who may not have the understanding, but who have been told repeatedly to focus on the positive, while circumstances would seem to be dwindling for the worst. I have lots of people in my life whose samskaras would have them complaining about the negativity that surrounds them, and they deeply resent it when they are reminded to be positive. It seems to only add insult to injury and instigate some form of defensive retaliation such as " well what do you think I have been doing all this time, all the postive thinking, and affirmations and bandaids in the world haven't helped me, nothing works for me. This is all fake. This is just irrational magical thinking. All these rituals are brainwashing and things aren't really getting better for me. I am getting worse inspite of all these affirmations, and rituals. " In other words, the statement about being positive brought up a great deal of doubt. I offer my doubt to Maa Devi, all the seeds of doubt that have been sewn by others from before the beginning of time. Svaahaa. Jai Maa, Jai Swamiji, Pranams, -e --- inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > NAMASTE: Swami's statement may seem oversimplified, > but it is focused > on those whose samskaras have presented them with > enough clarity and > knowledge to understand his remarks. Unfortunately, > there are those > who are not ready to hear them. > For example, my brother, depressed for 25 years, > will not accept any > other reality than his depression. I can talk to > him until I am blue > in the face, and present volumes of knowledge and > experience of higher > states of consciousness, from all points of view, > and from different > religious and mystical traditions, but, he does not > accept one word as > truth. When he is in a state of despair, he feels > overwhelmed. Life > is bleak and meaningless. There is no > " objectivity " , only > subjectivity. The small self is overshadowed by the > stress and strain > of life. He has no grasp on the " eternal Self " , only > on the relative > world of change and fluctuations of the emotions and > mind. > All these situations are described so well in the > Chandi. > He is trapped by the great ego. > So, that is my brothers' state of consciousness, > living a life of > quiet despair, going to work, and doing chores, > marking time till > death. No higher goals, no vision of a better life. > But, for those of us whose samskaras have lead us to > Maa and Swami, > and have experienced some sweet wisdom and > experience of the Divine, > then, we have the power to implement the techniques > Swami teaches. > As in every aspect of our life, we have options and > can decide what > course of action to follow: > 1. we can give up, surrender to the despair, and do > nothing. > > Or, > 2. employ the techniques Swami recommends. > > It is my personal experience that when despair > comes, and it does, I > have to consciously remember why I am on this Earth, > what are my > highest goals, and double my efforts to move thru > the experience back > to MYSELF, MY GOD SELF. Sure, it takes work, effort, > and great focus. > But, that is life. That is sadhana, that is the > friction, the heat, > which helps us grow. > To me, Swami's message is not simplistic, but, > profoundly inspiring > and " right to the point " . For me, HE HITS THE NAIL > ON THE HEAD. > In a few pithy comments, he reminds us of the reason > for our birth, > and the goal of all existence. > Now it is up to us. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > NAMASTE: > > Upon reading this message about despair and > positive > > thinking, it is a poignant message, but isn't it > > oversimplifying? If we are in a state of despair > what > > about objectivity towards our subjectivity? > Looking > > without preference at both positive and negatives, > and > > not being attached to one or the other, or to > react > > with ones emotions, until a state of equilibrium > has > > been reached through disequilibrium, the pendulum > that > > swings from one extreme sways to it's opposite > until > > finally it rests in the center? To stay in > equanimity? > > Pranams, > > e > > --- inspectionconnection108 > > <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > > > > NAMASTE: One evening Swami answered a question > from > > > a devotee about > > > despair. > > > He said: " despair is something we all > experience, so > > > we use the > > > obstacles to help demonstrate our love. To > remember > > > the sense of > > > privilege to remember God. It is not the body > > > hurting, it is the > > > mind. Keep the mind on the positive, on the > Grace > > > that we can > > > remember God in this life. Be thankful, be > > > grateful, stay positive, > > > focus on the positive. > > > God gave us these circumstances because we were > too > > > far from Her. > > > Make friends and accept the circumstances. > > > Acceptance of the > > > situration makes it no longer a problem, just a > > > situation to apply our > > > energies to solve. > > > Can we remember God when we have everything in > > > place? It is easy to > > > remember God when we are in trouble. > > > Pain is the teaching > > > Pleasure is the examination. " > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > > with the Search movie showtime shortcut. > > http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar. http://tools.search./toolbar/features/mail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 I'm going to jump back in here and respond to this because it is something I have been thinking about since my original reply and I think it bears saying. The path of worship and love of God is not an immediate cure for all ills, neither of the body nor the mind and heart. But it definitely does help. The path to God is a difficult one, and there are bad times as well as good. Depression is a scourge, and very difficult to dig yourself out of. For those whose mind is covered with the deep tracks of multiple bouts of serious depression, it is not something that disappears overnight (as a rule - nothing is impossible, after all, where God is concerned). But it is important to remember that this path of God realization directly opposes the depressive processes and effects, and if it is pursued with diligence, it will eventually burn all the depressive tendencies in the fire of divine knowledge and love. I believe this with all my heart. Jai Maa! Chris , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1 wrote: > > Namaste Vishweshwar and Shankari Kali, > > The only reason I raised the issue about the > possibility of oversimplifying is to clarify for those > like me who may not have the understanding, but who > have been told repeatedly to focus on the positive, > while circumstances would seem to be dwindling for > the worst. I have lots of people in my life whose > samskaras would have them complaining about the > negativity that surrounds them, and they deeply resent > it when they are reminded to be positive. It seems to > only add insult to injury and instigate some form of > defensive retaliation such as " well what do you think > I have been doing all this time, all the postive > thinking, and affirmations and bandaids in the world > haven't helped me, nothing works for me. This is all > fake. This is just irrational magical thinking. All > these rituals are brainwashing and things aren't > really getting better for me. I am getting worse > inspite of all these affirmations, and rituals. " In > other words, the statement about being positive > brought up a great deal of doubt. I offer my doubt to > Maa Devi, all the seeds of doubt that have been sewn > by others from before the beginning of time. Svaahaa. > > Jai Maa, Jai Swamiji, > > Pranams, > -e > --- inspectionconnection108 > <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > > NAMASTE: Swami's statement may seem oversimplified, > > but it is focused > > on those whose samskaras have presented them with > > enough clarity and > > knowledge to understand his remarks. Unfortunately, > > there are those > > who are not ready to hear them. > > For example, my brother, depressed for 25 years, > > will not accept any > > other reality than his depression. I can talk to > > him until I am blue > > in the face, and present volumes of knowledge and > > experience of higher > > states of consciousness, from all points of view, > > and from different > > religious and mystical traditions, but, he does not > > accept one word as > > truth. When he is in a state of despair, he feels > > overwhelmed. Life > > is bleak and meaningless. There is no > > " objectivity " , only > > subjectivity. The small self is overshadowed by the > > stress and strain > > of life. He has no grasp on the " eternal Self " , only > > on the relative > > world of change and fluctuations of the emotions and > > mind. > > All these situations are described so well in the > > Chandi. > > He is trapped by the great ego. > > So, that is my brothers' state of consciousness, > > living a life of > > quiet despair, going to work, and doing chores, > > marking time till > > death. No higher goals, no vision of a better life. > > But, for those of us whose samskaras have lead us to > > Maa and Swami, > > and have experienced some sweet wisdom and > > experience of the Divine, > > then, we have the power to implement the techniques > > Swami teaches. > > As in every aspect of our life, we have options and > > can decide what > > course of action to follow: > > 1. we can give up, surrender to the despair, and do > > nothing. > > > > Or, > > 2. employ the techniques Swami recommends. > > > > It is my personal experience that when despair > > comes, and it does, I > > have to consciously remember why I am on this Earth, > > what are my > > highest goals, and double my efforts to move thru > > the experience back > > to MYSELF, MY GOD SELF. Sure, it takes work, effort, > > and great focus. > > But, that is life. That is sadhana, that is the > > friction, the heat, > > which helps us grow. > > To me, Swami's message is not simplistic, but, > > profoundly inspiring > > and " right to the point " . For me, HE HITS THE NAIL > > ON THE HEAD. > > In a few pithy comments, he reminds us of the reason > > for our birth, > > and the goal of all existence. > > Now it is up to us. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NAMASTE: > > > Upon reading this message about despair and > > positive > > > thinking, it is a poignant message, but isn't it > > > oversimplifying? If we are in a state of despair > > what > > > about objectivity towards our subjectivity? > > Looking > > > without preference at both positive and negatives, > > and > > > not being attached to one or the other, or to > > react > > > with ones emotions, until a state of equilibrium > > has > > > been reached through disequilibrium, the pendulum > > that > > > swings from one extreme sways to it's opposite > > until > > > finally it rests in the center? To stay in > > equanimity? > > > Pranams, > > > e > > > --- inspectionconnection108 > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > NAMASTE: One evening Swami answered a question > > from > > > > a devotee about > > > > despair. > > > > He said: " despair is something we all > > experience, so > > > > we use the > > > > obstacles to help demonstrate our love. To > > remember > > > > the sense of > > > > privilege to remember God. It is not the body > > > > hurting, it is the > > > > mind. Keep the mind on the positive, on the > > Grace > > > > that we can > > > > remember God in this life. Be thankful, be > > > > grateful, stay positive, > > > > focus on the positive. > > > > God gave us these circumstances because we were > > too > > > > far from Her. > > > > Make friends and accept the circumstances. > > > > Acceptance of the > > > > situration makes it no longer a problem, just a > > > > situation to apply our > > > > energies to solve. > > > > Can we remember God when we have everything in > > > > place? It is easy to > > > > remember God when we are in trouble. > > > > Pain is the teaching > > > > Pleasure is the examination. " > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > > > with the Search movie showtime shortcut. > > > http://tools.search./shortcuts/#news > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar. > http://tools.search./toolbar/features/mail/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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