Guest guest Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 OM NAMAH SIVAYA Sal i wanted to to say how i admire your resolve in over coming your addiction. many of my attachments have been a slow go even though i, to the best of my ability, exert my will to be rid of them. it seems ultimately it is the Grace of Guru or Divine Mother that determines their departure. i think Grace and Effort are interdependent. in my experience anyway most of my attachments quit me, i didn't quit them. i know they are gone only due to Grace. but maybe that is just me. your post reminded me of a dvd i saw recently from Deepak Chopra entitled God and The Buddha. it was a discussion between Deepak and Bob Thurman on the similarities of the philosophies of Vedanta and Buddhism. in the dvd Deepak says that Vedanta says all human suffering is categorized by the 5 kleshas. i am sure most of you know them but for those who don't according to Deepak they are as follows; 1. we don't know the True Nature of Reality. 2. we have attachments to things that are temporal, ephemeral, or illusionary. 3. we have aversion or repulsion that things that or temporal, ephemeral, or illusionary. 4. we have a some limited view or concept of the self, or another words the ego 5. fear of Death. he says it goes on to say that all the 5 kleshas are contained in the first one, we don't know the True Nature of Reality. or maybe it is better to say we don't remember. and then i thought any attachment is not the True Nature of Reality. that the True Nature of Reality is really Love, which is Eternal. so for i have tried to just focus on The True Nature. to do otherwise seems analogous with the tail wagging the dog. and while reading some Bahá'í teaching recently i came across this quote from `Abdu'l-Bahá, Bahá'u'lláh's eldest son and appointed successor Bahá'í Faith; " The greatest gift of man is Universal Love—that magnet which renders existence eternal. It attracts realities and diffuses life with infinite joy. If this Love penetrates the heart of man, all the forces of the universe will be realized in him, for it is a Divine power which transports him to a Divine station and he will make progress until he is illumined thereby. Strive to increase the Love-power of reality, to make your hearts greater centers of attraction and to create new ideals and relationships. " JAI MA , " sal. " <salpaulsen wrote: > > Peace to you, Vish, > > I agree with your premise that we need teachers to guide us along the > way. There is an inherent gene within the human brain that > predisposes us, once provoked (cause), to search for a higher truth > (effect). Emphasis on provoked. Because we're frolicking in this > Earthly dimension, something external must trigger the search, > especially for those of us not incarnated with ascended master > consciousness. > > Until fire is sparked within us, no amount of credible preaching, > teaching, do this-do that, I've-seen-the-light-now-you-must-do-it- > too, is going to make a Himalayan hill of difference. An obvious > example is for anyone who has struggled with or has witnessed > addiction. No one sobered me up, and I am the only one who can keep > me sober. I am the cause and the effect. I also have realized my > limits in that there is absolutely nothing I can do to convince > another addict to become and stay sober. I can try, I can rant all I > want, I can model cleaner living, I can lead the way, but until one > internalizes that self-realization - or that ultimate victory in > total surrender of the ego, anything less than complete surrender to > a higher consciousness is a dishonor to your soul. It has to come > from within. Yes, Jesus said, " so you sow... " but the addict, > especially the addict, cannot intellectually make the connection to > those certain natural laws of cause and affect. How many people > actually, intelligently, clearly live this way anyhow? You can teach > them, but will they learn. At some level inside of you, one has to > decide, enough is enough, and take action. Then and only then is the > fire lit. Tending the fire is entirely another story...you are > correct that it takes intense discipline. > > Tanmaya's relevant, thoughtful post was sort of like a sacred Twelfth > Step. > > Thank you for your insights in this thoughtful dialogue. Anyone else > want to join in ? > > with respect, and peace to all, > sal. > > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > Namaste Sal, At the Devi Mandir, we are taught that God is love, > Shiva > > is the Consciousness of Infinite Goodness. He is everything. He > sits > > in Divine Union. He does not judge us, or mock us, or punish us. > He > > has set creation into motion, with certain unalterable laws. Those > > laws work whether we believe or not. One universal law is cause and > > effect. > > If we have a body, then we are governed by cause and effect. > However > > we act, good or bad, there is an equal and opposite reaction. As > > Jesus said, " as you sow, so shall you reap. " So, it does not really > > matter what we think, or what our mind tells us is true, but, what > the > > rishis, seers, and saints teach us. They are the travelers who have > > gone to the mountaintop, seen the face of God, and come back to help > > us see the light. They have all taught the same thing: have a > goal, > > create a plan to reach the goal, and work the plan ceaselessly. > > As Chris said, and as Maa and Swami have taught us, the Ego will > work > > long and hard to convince us that we do not have to have a plan, or > a > > goal, and that meditation is not important, that we can just " be " > > whatever we want, and do whatever we want, and all will be fine. > That > > is the ego's job, to create division so it can stay in control. It > > does not want to give over control to anything or anyone. That would > > lead to its downfall and destruction. > > However, the lives of the great ones, Maa, Swami, Ramakrishna, > Mother > > Teresa, Jesus, Buddha, have taught us differently. They all shared > > one common trait: they all achieved their goals thru incredible > > disciple. They began with inspiration, then they learned about the > > object of their desire or affection, and then they practiced-over > and > > over, whatever discipline which their Guru taught them, and > gradually, > > thru discipline, devotion, seva-selfless service, meditation, > > satsunga-the community of like minded people, japa-repeatation of > > God's name, homa-sacred fire ceremony, and prayer, they reached > their > > goals. > > As a teacher and support of those less fortunate than yourself, you > > know the value of dedication, hard work, and you have experienced > that > > each person is born with a different capacity. Yet, within each of > > us, there is a drive, a passion, to manifest some higher purpose, > > That is the seed which God planted in each of our hearts. It is up > to > > us to water and nourish that seed so it grows to its fullest > > potential. It is up to us. > > The Great Ones gave us those tools. We have to use them. And if we > > don't use them now, we will have numerous future incarnations to > > perfect ourselves. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Chris Kirner " > > <chriskirner1956@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Sal, > > > > > > In my opinion it is an old and well-worn trick of the ego that > makes > > > us ask ourselves why all of this is necessary. For our every > breath > > > to be a prayer and our every thought the name of God is our > natural > > > state. Anything else is the effect of an unpurified ego and its > > > continual focus on ME. It is only the ego which makes it seem > > > unnatural. If your mind and heart never express anything but God, > then > > > none of it is necessary. > > > > > > God certainly wants us to achieve the purpose of life. The > principle > > > of Guru is an integral part of this creation. How can Guru not > find > > > joy in the progress of Her students? > > > > > > Oh yeah, and thank you for the sweet words...but you'll just have > to > > > trust me on this. > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sal. " <salpaulsen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > A few questions I have to ask are: > > > > > > > > Is God then selfish to want us to spend all our time in > communion > > > > with Him/Her? If we don't, are we then denied His/Her love? > Because > > > > man has attached all these conditions, labels, words to ponder > in our > > > > search to find God, have we then given Him/Her an ego to > please? > > > > I've always struggled with the aspect of > conditional/unconditional > > > > love of the universe, being told I have to worship. Does All > That Is > > > > emotionally care if one meditates, with the understanding of > > > > meditation being hours of sitting and chanting and reflection, > or are > > > > we simply expected to be always be kind? > > > > > > > > Chris K, I do not think you are lazy. If you are out doing > something > > > > with complete joy and share that joy and beauty with others, > you are > > > > in communion with God. Your flower story shows that. It was > lovely. > > > > > > > > I cannot think of a more loving, selfless, tireless embodiment > of > > > > action and communion with God than Mother Teresa. God saw the > need, > > > > she was the instrument to fill it. Would anyone question that > she > > > > was not a self-realized woman of God? > > > > > > > > The fact of the maya is, Earth is a garden for the human > experience. > > > > God sees the need to tend the garden and He/She chooses his > gardeners > > > > carefully. If that need is to vibrationally raise global > > > > consciousness, or tend to a disabled child, the love or > service, and > > > > the devotion given to it, should be no less worthy to the > attainment > > > > of bliss. The paths are many. > > > > > > > > With all respect, and peace to all, > > > > sal. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste: I randomly opened the book: " Ramakrishna, The > Nectar of > > > > > Eternal Bliss " , by Maa and Swami, and on the page it said, > and I > > > > > paraphrase, " this life is not meant for action, it is meant > to > > > > realize > > > > > God. Pray to God to decrease the need for action, so, you can > > > > > meditate more on Him. " > > > > > > > > > > A devotee asked Him, " Dear Sir, I feel the need to build > hospitals > > > > for > > > > > the sick, and help them. Isn't it selfish to just focus on > God and > > > > > ignore the needs of those less fortunate than us? " > > > > > > > > > > Again Ramakrishna said: " we are not here for action, but to > realize > > > > > God. If God desires, He will build the hospitals and help the > > > > needy. > > > > > We have to meditate on Him. " > > > > > > > > > > I thought of Maa and Swami, following the example of their > Guru > > > > > Ramakrishna. They are the best examples we have of humans > living > > > > God > > > > > centered lives. > > > > > > > > > > yet even with these incredible examples, so often we are > > > > overshadowed > > > > > by the " need to act, the impulse do some something, anything, > > > > anything > > > > > but sit and pray or chant. We have to pray with all our > might to > > > > have > > > > > God strengthen our resolve, and remove the obstacles, so we > can sit > > > > to > > > > > communion with God. > > > > > > > > > > Life is so short, time passes so quickly, and at the end of > it all, > > > > > what will we have to show for it? A few earthly treasures? > > > > > > > > > > If God created this Earth as a place to strive to know Him, > then, we > > > > > had better work day and night to reach that goal. > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, a man brought his family to the Devi Mandir for > the first > > > > > time. He told me how his heart was crying out for the Lord. > How > > > > > hungry he was to taste the bliss of God. Before I could help > > > > myself, > > > > > the words blurted out of my mouth, " talking is a waste, chant > the > > > > name > > > > > of God, do japa all the time, in your car, walking the > street, > > > > waiting > > > > > for an appointment " . > > > > > He looked at me, taken aback at the abruptness of my > statement, and > > > > > continued on with his talk about his desire. I indicated > that I had > > > > > to get back to work cleaning the Temple, and turned and > walked away. > > > > > > > > > > Dear reader, I had no right to judge another, and I am sorry > if I > > > > > offended the man, but, I know too well the story of my own > desire, > > > > and > > > > > how I talk and talk and do so little to know God. > > > > > I realized that when I spoke to him, I was talking to myself. > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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