Guest guest Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this poem from Walt Whitman: I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be complete, The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains jagged and broken. I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of the earth, There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the theory of the earth, No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of the earth. In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and inequality around the planet? How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are complete? I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra practice? I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. Thank you, Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Namaste Jennifer, I was moved by your email, and your questions are close to my heart, so I thought I'd send you a few thoughts. First of al, thank you so much for the Whitman. When I rebelled against my parochial school religious teachings when I was a pre-teen Whitman was one of the first teachers I found, and my idea of the Divine came from him for much of my adolescence. I think there are many ways of serving God- many ways of advancing your own soul- which is the same thing. Some people need/desire to absorb in meditation, some in tantric pujas, some in philosophy, some in karma yoga. Not everyone can or should follow the same ways. I would say, then, that if you're feeling pulled to serve others as God- do it. Do what you can to relieve their suffering. Samsara is vast and vastly energised, and I for one don't think it will ever be " solved " . Some do- the Jewish sages of my own background, for instance, believe in the eventual Messianic age where all beings will attain oneness with God ( " and the earth will be covered with the knowledge of God like the ocean is filled with water " ) I don't know. In any case every single life is precious. Last year I began working on the Darfur campaign. I got to know a survivor of the Rwandan genocide, who has become one of my best friends. We were discussing where you get the energy to fight when hundreds of thousands of people are killed and displaced, and nothing is being done about it- no Arjunas stepping up. I said to him that my thinking was that if even one person was saved from death, or one young girl saved from rape- that was enough to energise any degree of fighting. He said, " When I was over there in Rwanda when I was 9 and they were going through killing everyone, I would have wanted to know there was someone, somewhere doing something. I would have wanted to you to be here doing what you are doing. " My point is that even if the big picture can't be changed (and honestly, I'm not sure how much it can be, or if it's in our hands- samsara is samsara) every act of service, every petition, every social justice campaign, helps somebody somewhere. Yoga provides the clarity, the purity, and the strength to serve without causing (hopefully) more damage. Thw two things- service and justice work on the one hand and the yoga of purification on the other- are two parts of one movement, the movement of benefitting self and other on the way to becoming, like Shree Maa, like Swamiji, like Durga Maa, a fountain of blessing for the three worlds and- Divine. I'd be happy to hear any further thoughts from you on this. Blessings Jai Maa!! Sushuddha On 7/1/07, jrholm1007 <jrholm1007 wrote: Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this poem from Walt Whitman:I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be complete,The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains jagged and broken.I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of the earth,There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the theory of the earth,No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth,Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of the earth.In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and inequality around the planet?How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are complete?I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra practice?I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. Thank you, Jennifer -- Matthew GindinTO, Canada 416-633-7765 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi Jennifer, I know there are some references to scripture I could allude to, but strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond " because Shree Maa and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our worship can make a paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to believe her. Swamiji often says that he cannot advance spiritually until we advance spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is not just us human beings, the very earth itself is an expression of our karmas, our thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects everything else. We share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad sense that we've all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. Here's a link to an article I posted about a while back. It's called " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga International. It describes a series of studies on how group meditation affects violence. Here it is: http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html Jai Maa! Chris , " jrholm1007 " <jrholm1007 wrote: > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > poem from Walt Whitman: > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be > complete, > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > jagged and broken. > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of > the earth, > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > theory of the earth, > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > the earth. > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > inequality around the planet? > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > complete? > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > practice? > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > Thank you, Jennifer > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Peace to you, Jennifer! You asked for " any " insight, so I'll offer up mine...which follows from a more New Age perspective. The Earth is in the process of ascension, which means She is vibrating at increasingling higher levels. Every time one offers up a prayer, a chant, a thought, in Light and in Love of all that is Divine, it increases global awareness and higher consciousness. The Universe rejoices! Since we are yet still on this Earth, and physical beings playing a game on this Earth, those who are in the process of hopping in the canoe and riding the waves toward ascension are also becoming increasingly more sensitive to the duality in the world around us. We are starting to notice it more - the atrocities that are happening throughtout the world. Lower, negative energies are no longer able to hide. And it all feels yucky against the higher level energies of Love and Light. Living completely in the Light begins a ripple effect, like the drop of water in the ocean. The more that people raise their vibration, bigger the waves, the bigger the waves, the more lower energies will be unable to survive and continue. Do I believe the Earth will overcome? Oh yes, I do.... You are a beautiful soul to have come to this realization... much love to you, sal. , " jrholm1007 " <jrholm1007 wrote: > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > poem from Walt Whitman: > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be > complete, > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > jagged and broken. > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of > the earth, > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > theory of the earth, > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > the earth. > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > inequality around the planet? > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > complete? > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > practice? > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > Thank you, Jennifer > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 >Namaste Jennifer: I recall the prayer Swami makes each Sunday at the group Chandi at Chapter 13 when Chandi asks what we desire as a boon. He says: " Maa. please give the Devi Mandir family pure devotion, and spread that devotion thru our family and our families' families and our families' families' families' until the whole world is filled with pure devotion. " Jai Maa Jai Swami vishweshwar Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > poem from Walt Whitman: > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be > complete, > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > jagged and broken. > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of > the earth, > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > theory of the earth, > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > the earth. > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > inequality around the planet? > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > complete? > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > practice? > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > Thank you, Jennifer > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hi Jennifer, As I read your post, I was constantly thinking of Shree Maa and Swamiji's life and teachings. I believe these two Beautiful Beings are complete. They have done all that needs to be done to be in communion with the Supreme, the Divine Spirit of constant supply but because of their selflessness and love are to guide us on the path that they have trod. Maa and Swamiji prayer devotedly for all creation, rich, poor, happy, depressed they are not attached to the action but offer worship in the knowledge that " Mother's Will be done " . I always delight in listening to Swamiji's prayer offering at the end of the Chandi, no one is left out. Many have been attracted to Maa and Swamiji and to their teachings to the point of being invited into their " sacrificial circle " (Chandi Episode 1), some have gone a step further and being inspired by their teachings, we are trying to emulate their methods and pattern our lives as they have shown us to the best of our abilities. If we who have been inspired can live a life of such to inspire one other, then the oppression/confusion /inequality will be reduced. It is important to remember though that we are Mother's hands in action and not the doer of the action and we will reap the benefits of our actions whether we like it or not. When one sits with the intention to purify and bring peace to oneself, in performing pranyam – the atmosphere is affected; the mantra stills the mind and helps our interaction in the world. Jai Maa , " jrholm1007 " <jrholm1007 wrote: > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > poem from Walt Whitman: > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be > complete, > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > jagged and broken. > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of > the earth, > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > theory of the earth, > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > the earth. > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > inequality around the planet? > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > complete? > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > practice? > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > Thank you, Jennifer > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hi Chris, With regards to the studies done on meditation affecting transpersonal behaviour it seems hundreds of thousands of more studies would need to be done to have any definitive proof for this effect. A few studies does not constitute definitive proof. It's a complex issue, and not my intent to stir up trouble or to sound cynical, it's just that there's a long way to go before we can jump to the conclusion that if everyone just meditated all the troubles of the world would cease miraculously. Magical thinking is not science yet, and this is not to say that it doesn't work sometimes either. With Love and Respect, Jai Maa, Jai Swami Eric --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote: > Hi Jennifer, > > I know there are some references to scripture I > could allude to, but > strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond > " because Shree Maa > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our > worship can make a > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to > believe her. Swamiji > often says that he cannot advance spiritually until > we advance > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is > not just us human > beings, the very earth itself is an expression of > our karmas, our > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects > everything else. We > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad > sense that we've > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while > back. It's called > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga > International. It > describes a series of studies on how group > meditation affects violence. > > Here it is: > http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , " jrholm1007 " > <jrholm1007 wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising > from chanting the > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused > after reading this > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him > or her who shall be > > complete, > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or > her who remains > > jagged and broken. > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does > not emulate those of > > the earth, > > There can be no theory of any account unless it > corroborate the > > theory of the earth, > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what > not, is of account, > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, > impartiality, rectitude of > > the earth. > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and > experientially. Yet in > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and > mantra practice and seek > > purification for myself and bring my self into > alignment with the > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can > see and feel and be > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and > dedicate every day > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the > multitudes of people > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of > oppression and > > inequality around the planet? > > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers > and sisters are > > complete? > > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the > journey from outward to > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what > happens for the world > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when > we pray for world > > peace? What is the social justice component of > prayer and mantra > > practice? > > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights > are appreciated. > > Thank you, Jennifer > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Chris,Wouldn't it be disconcerting if, somewhere down the way, we discovered that the critical mass (as per "the hundredth monkey") needed to dramatically change the species consciousness of humanity for the better was some ridiculously small number, and that, once again, we had lost by default, by simply not knowing, or believing (c.f. faith of a mustard seed to move mountains) in the potential of relatively small numbers to bring about great change?With the internet's contribution of instant communication world wide, and the possibility of culling out those of like mind to adderss a single focused task, what might be accomplished? Hard to know without trying.But, do you suppose that Sree Maa and Swami Satyanandaji do in fact know that their work, backed by the Infinite Divine Will, can not possibly fail, and so, as such, they rest content?...That the old paradigms are already gone forever--dead as dust?...That this is the other world, the new heaven and new Earth?Respectfully,Tanmaya , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956 wrote:>> Hi Jennifer,> > I know there are some references to scripture I could allude to, but> strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond "because Shree Maa> and Swamiji say it is so." Maa has said that our worship can make a> paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to believe her. Swamiji> often says that he cannot advance spiritually until we advance> spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is not just us human> beings, the very earth itself is an expression of our karmas, our> thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects everything else. We> share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad sense that we've> all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while back. It's called> "One Percent For Peace" and it was published in Yoga International. It> describes a series of studies on how group meditation affects violence. > > Here it is: http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html> > Jai Maa!> Chris> > > > , "jrholm1007" jrholm1007@ wrote:> >> > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > > poem from Walt Whitman:> > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall be > > complete,> > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > > jagged and broken.> > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those of > > the earth,> > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > > theory of the earth,> > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth,> > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > > the earth.> > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and seek > > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every day > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > > inequality around the planet?> > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > > complete?> > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > > practice?> > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > > Thank you, Jennifer> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Eric, If I could interject just one thing into this line of thought, I would point out that meditation as it has been taught by Eastern teachers from Vivekananda, at the turn of the last century, to the most recent gurus, is a practice of turning within in order to work on refining and transforming one's consciousness. However, if one looks closely at the practices, mantras, worships, etc, which Shree Maa and Swami Satyanandaji have endeavored to teach their devotees and disciples from the very first day of their arrival to the present, you may notice that the teaching is not primarily about meditation, but about invocation. What Shree Maa and Swamiji teach are, first and foremost, methods of invoking the Descent of the Divine Presence and Power into one's life and into the life of the family and the larger community. Their efforts have now culminated in the establishment of a Temple to all the Deities, equal in Power and Presence to the most revered temples in the East. And the real miracle is that it is in the U.S.A. in the 21st century. There isn't a great need for Shree Maa and Swami to teach yet another meditative technique for the transformation of consciousness. But there is a most pressing need to invoke the Descent of the Infinite Power and Presence of the Maha Shakti into our lives, nations, and World at this time. It is true enough that " my meditation " isn't going to transform even one other individual, but if my invocation reaches Her, and She responds by descending as an avatara for instance, or as sheer transforming and blessing Power, the whole world is blessed and uplifted as a result. So, it is not so much " my meditation " that is emphasized at the Devi Mandir. What is emphasized is the Divine Mother's living Presence, and Her unconditional Love and transforming and blessing Power. Which is not to imply that meditation is not vitally important; merely that it and the practice of Divine Invocation are different things and have different results. Respectfully, Tanmaya , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1 wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > With regards to the studies done on meditation > affecting transpersonal behaviour it seems hundreds of > thousands of more studies would need to be done to > have any definitive proof for this effect. A few > studies does not constitute definitive proof. It's a > complex issue, and not my intent to stir up trouble or > to sound cynical, it's just that there's a long way to > go before we can jump to the conclusion that if > everyone just meditated all the troubles of the world > would cease miraculously. Magical thinking is not > science yet, and this is not to say that it doesn't > work sometimes either. > > With Love and Respect, > Jai Maa, Jai Swami > Eric > --- Chris Kirner chriskirner1956 wrote: > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I > > could allude to, but > > strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond > > " because Shree Maa > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our > > worship can make a > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to > > believe her. Swamiji > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually until > > we advance > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is > > not just us human > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression of > > our karmas, our > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects > > everything else. We > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad > > sense that we've > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while > > back. It's called > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga > > International. It > > describes a series of studies on how group > > meditation affects violence. > > > > Here it is: > > http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " > > jrholm1007@ wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising > > from chanting the > > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused > > after reading this > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him > > or her who shall be > > > complete, > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or > > her who remains > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does > > not emulate those of > > > the earth, > > > There can be no theory of any account unless it > > corroborate the > > > theory of the earth, > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what > > not, is of account, > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, > > impartiality, rectitude of > > > the earth. > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and > > experientially. Yet in > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and > > mantra practice and seek > > > purification for myself and bring my self into > > alignment with the > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can > > see and feel and be > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and > > dedicate every day > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the > > multitudes of people > > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of > > oppression and > > > inequality around the planet? > > > > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers > > and sisters are > > > complete? > > > > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the > > journey from outward to > > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what > > happens for the world > > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when > > we pray for world > > > peace? What is the social justice component of > > prayer and mantra > > > practice? > > > > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights > > are appreciated. > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________\ ____________ > oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Peace to you, Eric! I think this is a very thoughtful and fair observation. Even my beliefs on the ripple effect are only valid as long as another is willing to " go with the flow " . It's all energy and it's all very physical, at least here on Earth. If another chooses to be a metaphorical rock in the path (violence, oppression, terrorism), the flow has several options: to go above, around or below. The physical entity has to be willing to allow the energy flow through. This tends not to happen until one comes to the self-realization that, " this isn't working for me anymore. " Then and only then will there come a real change. Therein lies the awakening to the Light. Let's face it, violence works for some people. Addiction works for those who are enabled. Oppression works for the oppressor. When it no longs works, when the Source no longer feeds energy, (yes, Source actually provides to those lower energies too - Source loves equally All That Is - after all, we are the ones who have decided in our mind of minds what's good and bad) - only when one is cut off from (their) Source will there come a necessity to change. fascinating isn't it...and so simple! love to all! sal. , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1 wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > With regards to the studies done on meditation > affecting transpersonal behaviour it seems hundreds of > thousands of more studies would need to be done to > have any definitive proof for this effect. A few > studies does not constitute definitive proof. It's a > complex issue, and not my intent to stir up trouble or > to sound cynical, it's just that there's a long way to > go before we can jump to the conclusion that if > everyone just meditated all the troubles of the world > would cease miraculously. Magical thinking is not > science yet, and this is not to say that it doesn't > work sometimes either. > > With Love and Respect, > Jai Maa, Jai Swami > Eric > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote: > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I > > could allude to, but > > strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond > > " because Shree Maa > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our > > worship can make a > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to > > believe her. Swamiji > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually until > > we advance > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is > > not just us human > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression of > > our karmas, our > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects > > everything else. We > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad > > sense that we've > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while > > back. It's called > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga > > International. It > > describes a series of studies on how group > > meditation affects violence. > > > > Here it is: > > http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " > > <jrholm1007@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising > > from chanting the > > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused > > after reading this > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him > > or her who shall be > > > complete, > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or > > her who remains > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does > > not emulate those of > > > the earth, > > > There can be no theory of any account unless it > > corroborate the > > > theory of the earth, > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what > > not, is of account, > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, > > impartiality, rectitude of > > > the earth. > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and > > experientially. Yet in > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and > > mantra practice and seek > > > purification for myself and bring my self into > > alignment with the > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can > > see and feel and be > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and > > dedicate every day > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the > > multitudes of people > > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of > > oppression and > > > inequality around the planet? > > > > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers > > and sisters are > > > complete? > > > > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the > > journey from outward to > > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what > > happens for the world > > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when > > we pray for world > > > peace? What is the social justice component of > > prayer and mantra > > > practice? > > > > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights > > are appreciated. > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Tanmaya, In my humble assessement, it's not so easily pinpointed because meditation is such an umbrella term it can be applied to anything and everything. Meditation for some is concentrating on their third eye, others on their heart center, others on a mantram, others on yantram, others on breathing, ascending and descending the spinal column piercing the chakras others on dreaming, walking, standing, sitting, reclining or countless varieties of asanas, tai chi, chi kung, neikung, kundalini, the variety of meditation forms are inexhaustable it seems. Even Swamiji calls the pujas a form of 'guided meditation into the presence of God.' While it is true that meditation is traditionally done as an individual practice, there are meditations on Durga, Ganesha, Shiva all the devas and devis in each of the pujas which can be done individually or as an assembly. Is this not intended to be a visualisation vocalized inVAKation process of concentration performed as a group or individual that collectively invites the Divine in every form of that numinous archetype within every being and particle in existence? Even though it is invokative contemplation of the Divine, does that mean we can seperate puja as different from a meditative technique in that the both involve concentration which leads to Dhyanam? Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras defines meditation as a state of awareness that results from a certain duration of concentration(mental focus) of the subject(meditator) on a given object(a Deva/Devi, an apple, a mantra, a yantra, a Dan Tian or Nabhi Padma, the jyothir in the Ajna Chakra) results in dhyanam, meditation. Then a certain unit of time in the awareness of dhyana, results in the state of samadhi. The cycle continues through the amount of time spent in lower samadhis progressing towards the highest samadhi. So you see the difference between performing collective Divine invokation and a meditative technique and I do not see the seperation rather it seems the end result of both actions may produce the same result. Who states that meditation cannot be invocative, or an internalised puja? Om Shreem Respect. Jai Maa, Jai Swami, -Eric --- ty_maa <dsjames wrote: > > Dear Eric, > > If I could interject just one thing into this line > of thought, I would > point out that meditation as it has been taught by > Eastern teachers from > Vivekananda, at the turn of the last century, to the > most recent gurus, > is a practice of turning within in order to work on > refining and > transforming one's consciousness. > > However, if one looks closely at the practices, > mantras, worships, etc, > which Shree Maa and Swami Satyanandaji have > endeavored to teach their > devotees and disciples from the very first day of > their arrival to the > present, you may notice that the teaching is not > primarily about > meditation, but about invocation. > > What Shree Maa and Swamiji teach are, first and > foremost, methods of > invoking the Descent of the Divine Presence and > Power into one's life > and into the life of the family and the larger > community. > > Their efforts have now culminated in the > establishment of a Temple to > all the Deities, equal in Power and Presence to the > most revered temples > in the East. And the real miracle is that it is in > the U.S.A. in the > 21st century. > > There isn't a great need for Shree Maa and Swami to > teach yet another > meditative technique for the transformation of > consciousness. But there > is a most pressing need to invoke the Descent of the > Infinite Power and > Presence of the Maha Shakti into our lives, nations, > and World at this > time. > > It is true enough that " my meditation " isn't going > to transform even one > other individual, but if my invocation reaches Her, > and She responds by > descending as an avatara for instance, or as sheer > transforming and > blessing Power, the whole world is blessed and > uplifted as a result. > > So, it is not so much " my meditation " that is > emphasized at the Devi > Mandir. What is emphasized is the Divine Mother's > living Presence, and > Her unconditional Love and transforming and blessing > Power. > > Which is not to imply that meditation is not vitally > important; merely > that it and the practice of Divine Invocation are > different things and > have different results. > > Respectfully, > > Tanmaya > > > > > > , Eric Cassils > <Quanchula1 wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > With regards to the studies done on meditation > > affecting transpersonal behaviour it seems > hundreds of > > thousands of more studies would need to be done to > > have any definitive proof for this effect. A few > > studies does not constitute definitive proof. It's > a > > complex issue, and not my intent to stir up > trouble or > > to sound cynical, it's just that there's a long > way to > > go before we can jump to the conclusion that if > > everyone just meditated all the troubles of the > world > > would cease miraculously. Magical thinking is not > > science yet, and this is not to say that it > doesn't > > work sometimes either. > > > > With Love and Respect, > > Jai Maa, Jai Swami > > Eric > > --- Chris Kirner chriskirner1956 wrote: > > > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I > > > could allude to, but > > > strangely I can't think of much of anything > beyond > > > " because Shree Maa > > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our > > > worship can make a > > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to > > > believe her. Swamiji > > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually > until > > > we advance > > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and > it is > > > not just us human > > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression > of > > > our karmas, our > > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects > > > everything else. We > > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the > broad > > > sense that we've > > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one > karma. > > > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a > while > > > back. It's called > > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in > Yoga > > > International. It > > > describes a series of studies on how group > > > meditation affects violence. > > > > > > Here it is: > > > http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " > > > jrholm1007@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is > arising > > > from chanting the > > > > world peace mantra, and has become more > focused > > > after reading this > > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to > him > > > or her who shall be > > > > complete, > > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to > him or > > > her who remains > > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that > does > > > not emulate those of > > > > the earth, > > > > There can be no theory of any account unless > it > > > corroborate the > > > > theory of the earth, > > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what > > > not, is of account, > > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the > earth, > > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, > > > impartiality, rectitude of > > > > the earth. > > > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and > > > experientially. Yet in > > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and > > > mantra practice and seek > > > > purification for myself and bring my self into > > > alignment with the > > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I > can > > > see and feel and be > > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', > and > > > dedicate every day > > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. http://sims./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Hi Eric, As one skeptic to another, I have to say I agree with you. I have not even evaluated their methodology (though I admit to knowing next to nothing about statistical measures). As one person of faith to another, I have to say that built upon the foundation of Shree Maa and Swamiji's statements of the beneficial effects of spiritual practices on this level of reality, it is highly suggestive of a real experimental effect, and also very promising. Ultimately for me, and I tend to take it too far, I think, the only absolute proof is direct experience. If I don't see or feel or realize it myself, there always remains a little kernel of doubt. I accept a great many things as " working theories " , even some which I should probably fully accept. So, even though at my most skeptical I believe it could be true, and actually accept that it probably is true, there's always that " probably " in there. To believe absolutely I'd need to experience it myself. Jai Maa! Chris , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1 wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > With regards to the studies done on meditation > affecting transpersonal behaviour it seems hundreds of > thousands of more studies would need to be done to > have any definitive proof for this effect. A few > studies does not constitute definitive proof. It's a > complex issue, and not my intent to stir up trouble or > to sound cynical, it's just that there's a long way to > go before we can jump to the conclusion that if > everyone just meditated all the troubles of the world > would cease miraculously. Magical thinking is not > science yet, and this is not to say that it doesn't > work sometimes either. > > With Love and Respect, > Jai Maa, Jai Swami > Eric > --- Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote: > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I > > could allude to, but > > strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond > > " because Shree Maa > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our > > worship can make a > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to > > believe her. Swamiji > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually until > > we advance > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is > > not just us human > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression of > > our karmas, our > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects > > everything else. We > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad > > sense that we've > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while > > back. It's called > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga > > International. It > > describes a series of studies on how group > > meditation affects violence. > > > > Here it is: > > http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " > > <jrholm1007@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising > > from chanting the > > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused > > after reading this > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him > > or her who shall be > > > complete, > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or > > her who remains > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does > > not emulate those of > > > the earth, > > > There can be no theory of any account unless it > > corroborate the > > > theory of the earth, > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what > > not, is of account, > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, > > impartiality, rectitude of > > > the earth. > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and > > experientially. Yet in > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and > > mantra practice and seek > > > purification for myself and bring my self into > > alignment with the > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can > > see and feel and be > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and > > dedicate every day > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the > > multitudes of people > > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of > > oppression and > > > inequality around the planet? > > > > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers > > and sisters are > > > complete? > > > > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the > > journey from outward to > > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what > > happens for the world > > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when > > we pray for world > > > peace? What is the social justice component of > > prayer and mantra > > > practice? > > > > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights > > are appreciated. > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile./mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Hi Tanmaya (at first I thought I was speaking to Kumari ), You know, I think there's a lot more to this (like everything else!) than meets the eye. There's so much violence and suffering on this earth. I read just recently, I think it was in relation to that peace meditation I recently posted with Swamiji's approval, that another sage (I'll be darned if I can't remember who) gave a pretty small figure, something like (now no one quote me on this - I'm pulling it out of the air!) the square root of one percent of a given population, all meditating at the same time with one intention, to really tip the balance and create a lasting change. You would tend to think if that were the case all the saints and sages would be fairly screaming this message out to the world, but, by and large, they are not. Maa tells us to do our sadhana for the world. We have compassion. We do the peace mantra. It is all very quiet, almost hidden... Mother has said that she has seen this world at peace, and it will be beautiful. She has also said that this world is the one place with the most duality. As I see it, that's another way of saying this world is, if not a hell, at least close to it. There are other worlds in this universe which are more filled with peace and light than this one. So perhaps this world is not meant to be entirely at peace at this time. We know that the world goes through ages, characterized largely by their level of duality - or to put it another way - their inherent access to, or expression of, divine consciousness. If this place became filled now with the light of God, such that all could naturally see it, what would become of the Kali Yuga? Where would the people go who need to work out their karmas? Where would the saints go who want to express their divine light in the darkest circumstance? This is one of the mysteries of Divinity. Sa kali tomar iccha (everything is Your desire) Jai Maa! Chris , " ty_maa " <dsjames wrote: > > > Dear Chris, > > Wouldn't it be disconcerting if, somewhere down the way, we discovered > that the critical mass (as per " the > hundredth monkey " ) needed to dramatically change the species > consciousness of humanity for the better was some ridiculously small > number, and that, once again, we had lost by default, by simply not > knowing, or believing (c.f. faith of a mustard seed to move mountains) > in the potential of relatively small numbers to bring about great > change? > > With the internet's contribution of instant communication world wide, > and the possibility of culling out those of like mind to adderss a > single focused task, what might be accomplished? > > Hard to know without trying. > > But, do you suppose that Sree Maa and Swami Satyanandaji do in fact know > that their work, backed by the Infinite Divine Will, can not possibly > fail, and so, as such, they rest content? > > ...That the old paradigms are already gone forever--dead as dust? > > ...That this is the other world, > > the new heaven and new Earth? > > > Respectfully, > > Tanmaya > > > > > > , " Chris Kirner " <chriskirner1956@> > wrote: > > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I could allude to, but > > strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond " because Shree Maa > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our worship can make a > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to believe her. Swamiji > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually until we advance > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is not just us human > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression of our karmas, our > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects everything else. We > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad sense that we've > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while back. It's called > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga International. It > > describes a series of studies on how group meditation affects > violence. > > > > Here it is: http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " jrholm1007@ wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall > be > > > complete, > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those > of > > > the earth, > > > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > > > theory of the earth, > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > > > the earth. > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and > seek > > > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every > day > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > > > inequality around the planet? > > > > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > > > complete? > > > > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > > > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > > > practice? > > > > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Eric, Sorry for my delayed reply; busy-ness prevents me from dropping in daily on the conversations. My comments about meditation and invocation were, of course, generalizations, and therefore, by definition, imprecise and subjective. I find nothing to disagree with in your comments, on the contrary you have my admiration for your extensive knowledge of spiritual things. Nevertheless, as a generalization, I will hold to the point I was making before. More elaborately: When Eastern thought came west in the 60's, thousands, possibly millions, of western folk were exposed to, and enthralled, by the new concept of " liberation " or " enlightenment " , and it became a new frontier for many. The goal of spiritual freedom dovetailed smoothly into the individual and social freedoms being pursued at the time. The methods and practices employed then were aimed at a goal of personal increase or transcendence. I don't think that many at that time were on a path to invoke the Divine for the benefit of the world at large. However, I'm sure that many did understand that their spiritual gain would be a collective gain as well. Two things happened over the following short period. One was the serious breaking down of the family unit as people went their different ways pursuing their different goals. Points of view diverged so much that in many cases family bonds were beyond repair. And the very cultural values holding the family together were being challenged-or forgotten. It also gradually became clear to many that the commitment, discipline, and renunciation (of ego-self), were not what they wanted from life, though a small number of did continue their search by finding their way to genuine teachers, ashrams, or by taking refuge in other cultures. Nevertheless, people's intellectual boundaries had been broadened considerably, and, in the new cosmopolitanism, older cultural values continued to erode, and the number of marriages and the number of divorces began to approach the same number. As " liberation " as the goal of spiritual practice faded, meditations promising to calm the stress of the corporate arena and to generally tone up the quality of one's live in the world became popular--and lucrative. Many tried by meditation to get more excited about their lives-which were becoming progressively, and unaccountably, less exciting. Over the last couple of decades the need for incessant activity has increased. During Ozzy and Harriet days, one earner could work eight hours and provide for a family; now everyone works all the time just to break even. In the metropolitan areas, if you don't make at least 70k you won't own a home, you won't be saving for retirement, and you certainly won't put your children through college. The breakdown of the family unit, financial insecurity, and the invasion of the terrorists-whether those carrying improvised explosive devices, or those busy building tactical atomic weapons for use on the battlefield-have brought a pall of fear over many. Many of our parents are living lonely lives in solitary apartments trying to decide whether to buy food or medicine. It is simply a fact of life. I said before that the Divine Mother has descended during this difficult and unstable time to teach us how invoke the Divine spirit into our lives. Previously it was a luxury, now it is a necessity. Why has India drawn spiritual seekers like a magnet? No sooner do many aspirants form a spiritual goal, than they began saving up for their first trip to India. It is because so many Indian worshipers, in homes and temples, are daily invoking the Divine, that God has touched down in so many places that the whole continent has become holy. That is what needs to be done now in the West, and its absence is the reason that America is beginning to be seen by the community of nations as a cancer threatening the rest of the world. And that, in my opinion, is why Shree Maa has come at the behest of Sree Ramakrishna to re-stabilize the family unit, and the collective psyche, by establishing divine worship in every household in the West. And that is also why I believe that those fortunate ones who choose to help Her in Her Divine Work will be blessed beyond measure. Respectfully, Tanmaya , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1 wrote: > > Dear Tanmaya, > > In my humble assessement, it's not so easily > pinpointed because meditation is such an umbrella term > it can be applied to anything and everything. > Meditation for some is concentrating on their third > eye, others on their heart center, others on a > mantram, others on yantram, others on breathing, > ascending and descending the spinal column piercing > the chakras others on dreaming, walking, standing, > sitting, reclining or countless varieties of asanas, > tai chi, chi kung, neikung, kundalini, the variety of > meditation forms are inexhaustable it seems. Even > Swamiji calls the pujas a form of 'guided meditation > into the presence of God.' > > While it is true that meditation is traditionally done > as an individual practice, there are meditations on > Durga, Ganesha, Shiva all the devas and devis in each > of the pujas which can be done individually or as an > assembly. Is this not intended to be a visualisation > vocalized inVAKation process of concentration > performed as a group or individual that collectively > invites the Divine in every form of that numinous > archetype within every being and particle in > existence? Even though it is invokative contemplation > of the Divine, does that mean we can seperate puja as > different from a meditative technique in that the both > involve concentration which leads to Dhyanam? > > Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras defines meditation as a > state of awareness that results from a certain > duration of concentration(mental focus) of the > subject(meditator) on a given object(a Deva/Devi, an > apple, a mantra, a yantra, a Dan Tian or Nabhi Padma, > the jyothir in the Ajna Chakra) results in dhyanam, > meditation. Then a certain unit of time in the > awareness of dhyana, results in the state of samadhi. > The cycle continues through the amount of time spent > in lower samadhis progressing towards the highest > samadhi. > So you see the difference between performing > collective Divine invokation and a meditative > technique and I do not see the seperation rather it > seems the end result of both actions may produce the > same result. Who states that meditation cannot be > invocative, or an internalised puja? > Om Shreem Respect. > Jai Maa, Jai Swami, > -Eric > --- ty_maa dsjames wrote: > > > > > Dear Eric, > > > > If I could interject just one thing into this line > > of thought, I would > > point out that meditation as it has been taught by > > Eastern teachers from > > Vivekananda, at the turn of the last century, to the > > most recent gurus, > > is a practice of turning within in order to work on > > refining and > > transforming one's consciousness. > > > > However, if one looks closely at the practices, > > mantras, worships, etc, > > which Shree Maa and Swami Satyanandaji have > > endeavored to teach their > > devotees and disciples from the very first day of > > their arrival to the > > present, you may notice that the teaching is not > > primarily about > > meditation, but about invocation. > > > > What Shree Maa and Swamiji teach are, first and > > foremost, methods of > > invoking the Descent of the Divine Presence and > > Power into one's life > > and into the life of the family and the larger > > community. > > > > Their efforts have now culminated in the > > establishment of a Temple to > > all the Deities, equal in Power and Presence to the > > most revered temples > > in the East. And the real miracle is that it is in > > the U.S.A. in the > > 21st century. > > > > There isn't a great need for Shree Maa and Swami to > > teach yet another > > meditative technique for the transformation of > > consciousness. But there > > is a most pressing need to invoke the Descent of the > > Infinite Power and > > Presence of the Maha Shakti into our lives, nations, > > and World at this > > time. > > > > It is true enough that " my meditation " isn't going > > to transform even one > > other individual, but if my invocation reaches Her, > > and She responds by > > descending as an avatara for instance, or as sheer > > transforming and > > blessing Power, the whole world is blessed and > > uplifted as a result. > > > > So, it is not so much " my meditation " that is > > emphasized at the Devi > > Mandir. What is emphasized is the Divine Mother's > > living Presence, and > > Her unconditional Love and transforming and blessing > > Power. > > > > Which is not to imply that meditation is not vitally > > important; merely > > that it and the practice of Divine Invocation are > > different things and > > have different results. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Tanmaya > > > > > > > > > > > > , Eric Cassils > > Quanchula1@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > With regards to the studies done on meditation > > > affecting transpersonal behaviour it seems > > hundreds of > > > thousands of more studies would need to be done to > > > have any definitive proof for this effect. A few > > > studies does not constitute definitive proof. It's > > a > > > complex issue, and not my intent to stir up > > trouble or > > > to sound cynical, it's just that there's a long > > way to > > > go before we can jump to the conclusion that if > > > everyone just meditated all the troubles of the > > world > > > would cease miraculously. Magical thinking is not > > > science yet, and this is not to say that it > > doesn't > > > work sometimes either. > > > > > > With Love and Respect, > > > Jai Maa, Jai Swami > > > Eric > > > --- Chris Kirner chriskirner1956@ wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I > > > > could allude to, but > > > > strangely I can't think of much of anything > > beyond > > > > " because Shree Maa > > > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our > > > > worship can make a > > > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to > > > > believe her. Swamiji > > > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually > > until > > > > we advance > > > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and > > it is > > > > not just us human > > > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression > > of > > > > our karmas, our > > > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects > > > > everything else. We > > > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the > > broad > > > > sense that we've > > > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one > > karma. > > > > > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a > > while > > > > back. It's called > > > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in > > Yoga > > > > International. It > > > > describes a series of studies on how group > > > > meditation affects violence. > > > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " > > > > jrholm1007@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is > > arising > > > > from chanting the > > > > > world peace mantra, and has become more > > focused > > > > after reading this > > > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to > > him > > > > or her who shall be > > > > > complete, > > > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to > > him or > > > > her who remains > > > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that > > does > > > > not emulate those of > > > > > the earth, > > > > > There can be no theory of any account unless > > it > > > > corroborate the > > > > > theory of the earth, > > > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what > > > > not, is of account, > > > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the > > earth, > > > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, > > > > impartiality, rectitude of > > > > > the earth. > > > > > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and > > > > experientially. Yet in > > > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and > > > > mantra practice and seek > > > > > purification for myself and bring my self into > > > > alignment with the > > > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I > > can > > > > see and feel and be > > > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', > > and > > > > dedicate every day > > > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________\ ____________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. > http://sims./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks Chris, I always read your balanced comments with special care. You manage to combine intellect and Heart, healthy skepticism and Faith in an admirable way. T. , " Chris Kirner " <chriskirner1956 wrote: > > Hi Tanmaya (at first I thought I was speaking to Kumari ), > > You know, I think there's a lot more to this (like everything else!) > than meets the eye. There's so much violence and suffering on this earth. > > I read just recently, I think it was in relation to that peace > meditation I recently posted with Swamiji's approval, that another > sage (I'll be darned if I can't remember who) gave a pretty small > figure, something like (now no one quote me on this - I'm pulling it > out of the air!) the square root of one percent of a given population, > all meditating at the same time with one intention, to really tip the > balance and create a lasting change. You would tend to think if that > were the case all the saints and sages would be fairly screaming this > message out to the world, but, by and large, they are not. > > Maa tells us to do our sadhana for the world. We have compassion. We > do the peace mantra. It is all very quiet, almost hidden... > > Mother has said that she has seen this world at peace, and it will be > beautiful. She has also said that this world is the one place with the > most duality. As I see it, that's another way of saying this world is, > if not a hell, at least close to it. > > There are other worlds in this universe which are more filled with > peace and light than this one. So perhaps this world is not meant to > be entirely at peace at this time. > > We know that the world goes through ages, characterized largely by > their level of duality - or to put it another way - their inherent > access to, or expression of, divine consciousness. If this place > became filled now with the light of God, such that all could naturally > see it, what would become of the Kali Yuga? Where would the people go > who need to work out their karmas? Where would the saints go who want > to express their divine light in the darkest circumstance? > > This is one of the mysteries of Divinity. > > Sa kali tomar iccha (everything is Your desire) > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , " ty_maa " dsjames@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chris, > > > > Wouldn't it be disconcerting if, somewhere down the way, we discovered > > that the critical mass (as per " the > > hundredth monkey " ) needed to dramatically change the species > > consciousness of humanity for the better was some ridiculously small > > number, and that, once again, we had lost by default, by simply not > > knowing, or believing (c.f. faith of a mustard seed to move mountains) > > in the potential of relatively small numbers to bring about great > > change? > > > > With the internet's contribution of instant communication world wide, > > and the possibility of culling out those of like mind to adderss a > > single focused task, what might be accomplished? > > > > Hard to know without trying. > > > > But, do you suppose that Sree Maa and Swami Satyanandaji do in fact know > > that their work, backed by the Infinite Divine Will, can not possibly > > fail, and so, as such, they rest content? > > > > ...That the old paradigms are already gone forever--dead as dust? > > > > ...That this is the other world, > > > > the new heaven and new Earth? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Tanmaya > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Chris Kirner " <chriskirner1956@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jennifer, > > > > > > I know there are some references to scripture I could allude to, but > > > strangely I can't think of much of anything beyond " because Shree Maa > > > and Swamiji say it is so. " Maa has said that our worship can make a > > > paradise of the earth. I have no choice but to believe her. Swamiji > > > often says that he cannot advance spiritually until we advance > > > spiritually. We are, all of us, connected, and it is not just us human > > > beings, the very earth itself is an expression of our karmas, our > > > thoughts and feelings. Everything we do effects everything else. We > > > share one mind (mahat), one prana, and in the broad sense that we've > > > all gotten into the same roller-coaster, one karma. > > > > > > Here's a link to an article I posted about a while back. It's called > > > " One Percent For Peace " and it was published in Yoga International. It > > > describes a series of studies on how group meditation affects > > violence. > > > > > > Here it is: http://www.estrip.org/articles/oda/35.html > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , " jrholm1007 " jrholm1007@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a question that is arising from chanting the > > > > world peace mantra, and has become more focused after reading this > > > > poem from Walt Whitman: > > > > > > > > I swear the earth shall surely be complete to him or her who shall > > be > > > > complete, > > > > The earth remains jagged and broken only to him or her who remains > > > > jagged and broken. > > > > > > > > I swear there is no greatness or power that does not emulate those > > of > > > > the earth, > > > > There can be no theory of any account unless it corroborate the > > > > theory of the earth, > > > > No politics, song, religion, behavior, or what not, is of account, > > > > unless it compare with the amplitude of the earth, > > > > Unless it face the exactness, vitality, impartiality, rectitude of > > > > the earth. > > > > > > > > In some ways I get this, intellectually and experientially. Yet in > > > > other ways I don't. I can sit in prayer and mantra practice and > > seek > > > > purification for myself and bring my self into alignment with the > > > > energy of Divine Mother's perfect peace. I can see and feel and be > > > > that peace in my little 'corner of the world', and dedicate every > > day > > > > to that unfolding. Yet how does that help the multitudes of people > > > > who are, daily, living with the consequences of oppression and > > > > inequality around the planet? > > > > > > > > How can I be complete, until all of my brothers and sisters are > > > > complete? > > > > > > > > I think what I am seeking clarity on is the journey from outward to > > > > inward action...in the world of Spirit, what happens for the world > > > > and all of her inhabitants (not to the 'me') when we pray for world > > > > peace? What is the social justice component of prayer and mantra > > > > practice? > > > > > > > > I realize this is a huge question. Any insights are appreciated. > > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Namaste Tanmayaji, The clarity of the difference between meditation and invocation and the purpose expressed for Shree Maa and Swamiji to teach us to do invocation of the Divine, is really powerful. Thank you for this. It eases many questions I have had. Jai Maa Sadhu Maa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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