Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Dear All,Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on "Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs" ============================== What are your criteria for defining what is "correct" pronunciation? Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? ============================== Please do post your thoughts on the above question.Jai MaaNanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Dear Nanda: thank you, and much gratitude to Swamiji, for the question. I am not sure if my answer is relevant, as I am not able to take part in the video classes. Is there any chance that there will be an audio version available for us low-tech types? (If not, I'm sure that Divine Mother will provide the technology when she feels that this student is ready...) At any rate, I am such a beginner, and I am participating in the monthly Chandi chanting by chanting along with Swamiji and Shree Maa on the CD. I have no background in Sanskrit. So for me, the important questions are about correct understanding and maintaining a heart connection with Divine Mother while chanting rather than having my mind carry me away. How do I empty myself of all expectations so that I can just be present with Mother in each Now Moment of chanting, in each syllable? Thank you, Jennifer , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai wrote: > > > Dear All, > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > ============================== > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > ============================== > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > Jai Maa > Nanda > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Dearest Swami Jee,ShreeMaa and Nanda Jee, To all the devimandir Parivar! I think that the gurus (Swami Jee & ShreeMaa) transmission of the mantras be followed to the extent that we can pronounce with our native dialects or tones. In the end it is the intention thats important so if we say RAMARARA it could be implied that we are identifying death and not Shree Ram. But the intention of the mantra was to recite Ram's name. Every puja I have been to, each pandit or pujari pronounces the same mantras slightly differently based on how each of them were taught by their Guru and their vocal dialects and limitations. They are all pronounce differently and thats why I have decided to follow swami jee & Shree Maa's guidelines. In the end all that matters is that we know what we say & our emotions and intentions are sincere in our speech and actions. Therefore if we were taught Maramaram. In our heart and minds eye we know that it equates to Ram. , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai wrote: > > > Dear All, > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > ============================== > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > ============================== > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > Jai Maa > Nanda > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Peace to you, Nanda! Thank you, and Jai Swamiji, for planting these seeds for us to nuture and grow! As for the most important aspect of pronuciation and chanting, I pick: 5. understanding How can one - 6. (ability to) communicate with an attitude of awareness - without having first obtained, 5. understanding ? I suspect there may be subtle variances that affect the vibrational energies of choices 1-4 (like for those of us who can't carry a tune), but I believe the universe would be benevolently forgiving and joyfully amused for us having at least tried... love and light! sal. , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai wrote: > > Dear All, > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > ============================== > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > ============================== > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > Jai Maa > Nanda > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 , " durbaksh " <rajans wrote: > > Dearest Swami Jee,ShreeMaa and Nanda Jee, > > To all the devimandir Parivar! > > I think that the gurus (Swami Jee & ShreeMaa) transmission of the > mantras be followed to the extent that we can pronounce with our > native dialects or tones. > > In the end it is the intention thats important so if we say RAMARARA > it could be implied that we are identifying death and not Shree Ram. > But the intention of the mantra was to recite Ram's name. > > Every puja I have been to, each pandit or pujari pronounces the same > mantras slightly differently based on how each of them were taught by > their Guru and their vocal dialects and limitations. They are all > pronounce differently and thats why I have decided to follow swami > jee & Shree Maa's guidelines. > > In the end all that matters is that we know what we say & our > emotions and intentions are sincere in our speech and actions. > > Therefore if we were taught Maramaram. In our heart and minds eye we > know that it equates to Ram. > > > > > > , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai@> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today > on > > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > > > ============================== > > > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or > the > > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > > > ============================== > > > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > > Jai Maa > > Nanda > > > The tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and The ability to communicate an attitude of awareness with the Chandi is as significant as how much you are willing to give to Her. She wants everything of us, our whole being. As much as you can give to Her, that much will you receive. That is Her law. If you give Her everything than you will get that back from Chandi Maa. Those who give Her everything are called Saints in our tradition. Never worry about pronouncing the Mantras. She knows what you are feeling. She will show you how to do it. Have faith and know that She is the Guru. Jai Maa, Sarada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 The tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and The ability to communicate an attitude of awareness with the Chandi is as significant as how much you are willing to give to Her. She wants everything of us, our whole being. As much as you can give to Her, that much will you receive. That is Her law. If you give Her everything than you will get that back from Chandi Maa. Those who give Her everything are called Saints in our tradition. Shree Maa is Chandi. Never worry about pronouncing the Mantras. She knows what you are feeling. She will show you how to do it. Have faith and know that She is the Guru. Jai Maa, Sarada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Beloved Swamiji, Pranams. I believe that tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and the ability to communicate an attitude of awareness are all important but at different levels depending on the intention of the seeker. The more sincere the intention, the greater the importance. Focussing on Guru or Ishta Devi helps to keep the intention pure. For awhile I just recited the English translation but gradually found a much deeper feeling of satisfaction after incorporating and chanting small bits of Sanskrit repeatedly. When chanting alone though, I can recall certain praise from memory, but in the company of others, because the tone, melody and pronunciation is different than `normal', the mind just tries to absorb the new with the thought of improving self, and the actual praise does easily come from memory, and I have to rely on the written text. Thankfully, in all of the praise offered, there is an element seeking forgiveness for error. Thank You for the question. Jai Maa Jai Swamiji , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai wrote:>> > Dear All,> Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on> "Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs"> > ==============================> > What are your criteria for defining what is "correct" pronunciation?> Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the> ability to communicate an attitude of awareness?> > ==============================> > Please do post your thoughts on the above question.> Jai Maa> Nanda> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Namaste Nanda, For me the criteria is understanding the mantra - at every level, from the gross to the intuitive. If the understanding is right everything else will follow - tone, accent, melody and grammar. Ultimately, one sings with the heart not the mind. Love Papia , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai wrote: > > > Dear All, > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > ============================== > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > ============================== > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > Jai Maa > Nanda > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Namaste Swamiji, All are important: But the most important, to me, is the understanding of it and the rest follows with practice. With out understanding it's just recitation. BUT knowing GOD/GODDESS to be all things she/he looks to our heart I think. So it really could sound like bable as long as our hearts are centered on Her/Him & she/he would repond with love and help. At least this is how it seems. Thank you Swami and Maa for this class you constantly inspire devotion and greater practice.kaliananda_saraswati <kaliananda_saraswati wrote: Beloved Swamiji, Pranams. I believe that tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and the ability to communicate an attitude of awareness are all important but at different levels depending on the intention of the seeker. The more sincere the intention, the greater the importance. Focussing on Guru or Ishta Devi helps to keep the intention pure. For awhile I just recited the English translation but gradually found a much deeper feeling of satisfaction after incorporating and chanting small bits of Sanskrit repeatedly. When chanting alone though, I can recall certain praise from memory, but in the company of others, because the tone, melody and pronunciation is different than `normal', the mind just tries to absorb the new with the thought of improving self, and the actual praise does easily come from memory, and I have to rely on the written text. Thankfully, in all of the praise offered, there is an element seeking forgiveness for error. Thank You for the question. Jai Maa Jai Swamiji , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai wrote:>> > Dear All,> Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on> "Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs"> > ==============================> > What are your criteria for defining what is "correct" pronunciation?> Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the> ability to communicate an attitude of awareness?> > ==============================> > Please do post your thoughts on the above question.> Jai Maa> Nanda> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.Visit the Auto Green Center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Namaste Swami: I feel that understanding is the most important. If I know what the words mean, and what they will do for me, then I will be able to take the sankalpa and perform the sadhana. Linked to this is the faith and trust in you and Maa, and the tradition of saints who have come before, that they, and you, have realized the goal, and, therefore, I can too. Even after continual practice, I must reread the English so that I can remain inspired. In addition, satsunga plays a huge role. Being able to share my love of God with others, keeps me inspired and expands my awareness of the importance and profundity of the worship. Jai Maa love vishweshwar , devi <student61754 wrote: > > Namaste Swamiji, > All are important: > But the most important, to me, is the understanding of it and the rest follows with practice. > With out understanding it's just recitation. BUT knowing GOD/GODDESS to be all things she/he looks to our heart I think. So it really could sound like bable as long as our hearts are centered on Her/Him & she/he would repond with love and help. > At least this is how it seems. > > Thank you Swami and Maa for this class you constantly inspire devotion and greater practice. > > kaliananda_saraswati <kaliananda_saraswati wrote: > Beloved Swamiji, > > Pranams. > > I believe that tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and the ability to communicate an attitude of awareness are all important but at different levels depending on the intention of the seeker. The more sincere the intention, the greater the importance. Focussing on Guru or Ishta Devi helps to keep the intention pure. > > For awhile I just recited the English translation but gradually found a much deeper feeling of satisfaction after incorporating and chanting small bits of Sanskrit repeatedly. When chanting alone though, I can recall certain praise from memory, but in the company of others, because the tone, melody and pronunciation is different than `normal', the mind just tries to absorb the new with the thought of improving self, and the actual praise does easily come from memory, and I have to rely on the written text. Thankfully, in all of the praise offered, there is an element seeking forgiveness for error. > > Thank You for the question. > > Jai Maa Jai Swamiji > > , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > > > ============================== > > > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > > > ============================== > > > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > > Jai Maa > > Nanda > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Auto Green Center. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Namaste Sarada! Spoken like a true Chandi devotee! Very cool! , " Sarada " <sarada_saraswati wrote: > > The tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and > The ability to communicate an attitude of awareness with the Chandi > is as significant as how much you are willing to give to Her. She > wants everything of us, our whole being. As much as you can give to > Her, that much will you receive. That is Her law. If you give Her > everything than you will get that back from Chandi Maa. Those who > give Her everything are called Saints in our tradition. > > Shree Maa is Chandi. > > Never worry about pronouncing the Mantras. She knows what you are > feeling. She will show you how to do it. Have faith and know that > She is the Guru. > > Jai Maa, > Sarada > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Namaste Swamiji, thank you very much for asking the question. My criteria for " correct " pronunciation are the increase of love and joy and understanding that arise as a result. A " correct " pronunciation seems to have something to do with being 'in tune', with truth-goodness-beauty communicating Itself in and through the recitation. Your pronunciation differs from that of Shree Maa, yet what is communicated is the same. Sometimes it happens during my own recitation that the words take on a melody of their own; instead of struggle, there is a flow. Then I am very happy. with love, Henny , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai wrote: > > > Dear All, > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > ============================== > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > ============================== > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > Jai Maa > Nanda > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Hi Jennifer, You know, if you are interested in listening you may be able to. Though the classes aren't saved in audio only format, if you can tune in at the time they are being conducted you can choose to play only the audio - it may be slow enough for you - I'm not sure. Jai Maa! Chris , " jrholm1007 " <jrholm1007 wrote: > > Dear Nanda: thank you, and much gratitude to Swamiji, for the > question. I am not sure if my answer is relevant, as I am not able > to take part in the video classes. Is there any chance that there > will be an audio version available for us low-tech types? (If not, > I'm sure that Divine Mother will provide the technology when she > feels that this student is ready...) > > At any rate, I am such a beginner, and I am participating in the > monthly Chandi chanting by chanting along with Swamiji and Shree Maa > on the CD. I have no background in Sanskrit. So for me, the > important questions are about correct understanding and maintaining a > heart connection with Divine Mother while chanting rather than having > my mind carry me away. How do I empty myself of all expectations so > that I can just be present with Mother in each Now Moment of > chanting, in each syllable? > > Thank you, Jennifer > , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai@> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today > on > > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > > > ============================== > > > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or > the > > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > > > ============================== > > > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > > Jai Maa > > Nanda > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hi Chris, really, think so maybe? I'm excited, I'll try it tonight, thanks for the tip. Jen , " Chris Kirner " <chriskirner1956 wrote: > > Hi Jennifer, > > You know, if you are interested in listening you may be able to. > Though the classes aren't saved in audio only format, if you can tune > in at the time they are being conducted you can choose to play only > the audio - it may be slow enough for you - I'm not sure. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , " jrholm1007 " <jrholm1007@> wrote: > > > > Dear Nanda: thank you, and much gratitude to Swamiji, for the > > question. I am not sure if my answer is relevant, as I am not able > > to take part in the video classes. Is there any chance that there > > will be an audio version available for us low-tech types? (If not, > > I'm sure that Divine Mother will provide the technology when she > > feels that this student is ready...) > > > > At any rate, I am such a beginner, and I am participating in the > > monthly Chandi chanting by chanting along with Swamiji and Shree Maa > > on the CD. I have no background in Sanskrit. So for me, the > > important questions are about correct understanding and maintaining a > > heart connection with Divine Mother while chanting rather than having > > my mind carry me away. How do I empty myself of all expectations so > > that I can just be present with Mother in each Now Moment of > > chanting, in each syllable? > > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today > > on > > > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > > > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or > > the > > > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > > > Jai Maa > > > Nanda > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Guess what? You are right, I can! Guess how happy I am? What a blessing, and it was there all along....thanks a million, Jennifer , " Chris Kirner " <chriskirner1956 wrote: > > Hi Jennifer, > > You know, if you are interested in listening you may be able to. > Though the classes aren't saved in audio only format, if you can tune > in at the time they are being conducted you can choose to play only > the audio - it may be slow enough for you - I'm not sure. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , " jrholm1007 " <jrholm1007@> wrote: > > > > Dear Nanda: thank you, and much gratitude to Swamiji, for the > > question. I am not sure if my answer is relevant, as I am not able > > to take part in the video classes. Is there any chance that there > > will be an audio version available for us low-tech types? (If not, > > I'm sure that Divine Mother will provide the technology when she > > feels that this student is ready...) > > > > At any rate, I am such a beginner, and I am participating in the > > monthly Chandi chanting by chanting along with Swamiji and Shree Maa > > on the CD. I have no background in Sanskrit. So for me, the > > important questions are about correct understanding and maintaining a > > heart connection with Divine Mother while chanting rather than having > > my mind carry me away. How do I empty myself of all expectations so > > that I can just be present with Mother in each Now Moment of > > chanting, in each syllable? > > > > Thank you, Jennifer > > , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today > > on > > > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > > > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or > > the > > > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > > > Jai Maa > > > Nanda > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Dear Swamiji I am just a beginner but I understand that " correct pronunciation " is to " communicate " the intention of the text. This is normally by a combination of tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, and the ability to communicate an attitude of awareness: each one of this in a certain relative level. Communicate with who?!: then of course, bhava (or correct understanding and devotion) is most important in the process. And so we may infer that a high level of devotion is more important than correct grammar, for instance. OM Shanti Leoncio ========================================================== > > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > > > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or > > the > > > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > > > > > ============================== > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Pranam Swamiji, My first response is what is the goal? It seems when that is clear then the qualities stressed in the pronunciation would become clear. From my intuitive perspective, if the goal is oneness with Her, then longing (Vyakulata) like the devotee in your story who is gasping for air when held under the water, is the first quality from which to assess correctness of pronunciation....is there a palatable, a pervasive bhava, for Her, not for a human audience. Will she FEEL our love and longing? How that looks and sounds would clearly differ for each of her unique children. For some it may be a 3-4 hour session of intense chanting with pranayama to demonstrate commitment and longing. For another it might be drifting from a short session of chanting to a blissful state of toning or sitting with a goofy smile on our faces. I believe and your stories demonstrate that with commitment and grace our grammar, tone, etc., will improve. If the goal is to memorize the text, then perhaps a combination of tone, accent, melody, rhythm might be most important. If the goal is understanding, then pronunciation and grammer would be important, as sometimes a slight miss reading or miss pronouncing a syllable can change meaning. If the goal is to calm a restless mind or balance the qualities of a dosha (vata, pita, kalpha), then perhaps focusing more on type of pranayama, or tone, or slowing the pace to concentrate on the pronunciation, or feeling every syllable, etc., as fits the individual inclinations or needs, might one be stressed over another. An analogy would be music, music that makes one person energized and able to focus on a project might be irritating to vata dosha or tamastic or rajastic to another person. I think this must be considered in the context of the goal and the practitioner/teacher. As humans I think we often judge what She would like by what we would like. If my inclination is for strict rhythm and pleasing tone or melody, then out-of-tune chanting might be displeasing to " me " and I could then judge it as wrong. For " me " it would be wrong, but it might be perfect for the person chanting to Her with longing. Conversely someone not interested in grammar, may dis-value the focus of another to study grammar and pronunciations. I do think Vak/Nada Yoga is an important and valuable path for those to which it is a fit. For these individuals there may be even additional considerations for what is " correct pronunciation " ; which brings us full circle to the original defining criteria, what is the goal? Perhaps it is a bit like dharmena, there is a most correct way to chant for each of us and we will likely be drawn to others that share a least some of the qualities that we find help to bring us closer to our goal(s),Her. Ramakrishna said that the defining quality is Vyakulata. Om, Sadhu Maa , " Nanda " <chandimaakijai wrote: > > > Dear All, > Here is a question from Swamiji regarding the class beginning today on > " Pronunciation and Chandi Samputs " > > ============================== > > What are your criteria for defining what is " correct " pronunciation? > Would you consider tone, accent, melody, grammar, understanding, or the > ability to communicate an attitude of awareness? > > ============================== > > Please do post your thoughts on the above question. > Jai Maa > Nanda > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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