Guest guest Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 OM NAMAH SIVAYA Wendy i think this is an interesting point you bring up. it is sometimes difficult to determine what is truly the " spiritual " thing to do. i have a personal example that just happened yesterday. after i finished work i went upstairs to our puja room to do puja, which for me on this day constituted playing my naal while chanting. just as i was starting my wife came upstairs and told me that there was a tornado in the west suburbs headed this way, the news said it should be here in about 10 minutes. i didn't really care cause the news is usually wrong, so i said thanks and began my opening prayers. after which i started to play the drum and chant my siva mantra. in a few minutes the rain really started to come.. and it was coming down harder and harder. the wind started to pick up. i was in my asana and kept playing. there are windows behind our altar and as i am looking at the altar the winds keep picking up. i start to hear the sound of tree limbs snapping.. then i see the roof of the house across the alley, about 50 ft. away, be torn from the building. as i watch the roof blow off this building i kept playing, thinking i guess the news was right, and as i feel the house start to shake a little i realize this is not a joke. at that point i thought of Swamiji saying once he sits he doesn't break his asana and also of the Markandeya story he told in class. so i kept with the mantra and playing the drum, though i would be lying if i said i wasn't scared. meanwhile now i start to hear my wife downstairs screaming my name...... so my question is what is the proper action? is it spiritual to stay seated and trust that we will be protected and not break my sankalpa. or is it spiritual to get up and go to my wife and make sure she is ok and do what i can to protect her? i won't say what i did because i am interested to hear what anyone has to say about this. i think this is a significant point for householders thanks for bringing it up. -eric JAI MA , " way131 " <wendy131 wrote: > > Namaste Srini > > Thank you so much for posting this. For a householder like me, these > very long pujas can feel overwhelming, let alone chanting Shiva's > name all day, doing pranayama and hatha yoga, saying Ganesh's mantra > every time I walk in and out of a room, working hard to complete my > Peace Sankalpa, etc. All of that, in addition to remembering that > both Beloved Shree Maa and Swamiji are with me all day and acting > accordingly. > Somewhere in there I can hear my family saying, " Wendy... Mom... > where's dinner?! " > > > Jai Maa!! Jai Swamiji!! > > love > w > > , " srini_sadhu " <srini_sadhu@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > Several devotees with busy schedules have asked for smaller pujas > > which they can perform on a daily basis, allowing for the > performance > > of the entire Kali Puja book on weekends and holidays when they have > > more time. We recommend the following from the Kali Puja book: > > > > • Invitation and Vow of worship: pp. 6-27 (or 9-30) > > • Purification of water and flowers: pp. 36-42 (or 41-44) > > • Establishment of the deity within: pp. 57-59 (or 64-67) > > • Offerings to the Goddess: pp. 72-82 (or 81-91) > > • Closing Prayers: pp. 227-233(247-253) > > > > This practice can be completed in approximately half an hour, and > can > > accompany regular meditation practices. > > > > Jai Maa! > > srini > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Wow, Eric, what a story! I hope your house made it through okay! I bet you got up and went to your wife (it's what I would've done, I think...after apologizing [quickly] to Shiva). This is a sticky question. My gurudeva never allowed his practices to be disturbed. Once there was a close disciple who became gravely ill and was near death. Her husband came to Swamiji (Swami Rama) and knocked and called desperately for him to come to her. Swamiji refused to come out until he was finished. When he did come out, he went to his disciple and he healed her, but apparently (I say this because he wasn't too clear about the details in his writings) she was very near death by the time he got to her, and as a result (for some reason I do not understand) her healing created a weakness in him that lasted for years. He recommended that one think carefully (actually I think he advised against it) before attempting to heal one who is near to death. From this experience I gather that there can be consequences to keeping a sankalpa in the face of circumstances. It needn't always be the case, of course, but in this case, though she was healed, there was a price to pay. I do believe, generally, that with great faith and devotion we are protected. The other side to this, of course, is the person who keeps his child from medical care because his religion teaches one should rely on faith alone. I do not believe in this. All in all, I think it is an individual thing. A pure person, a person of true faith and devotion, can follow her discipline and be protected. A person of tamasic belief in religion, what is sometimes called faith, cannot, I think. There is an element of being open to the inner guru, too, I think. What does your inner voice tell you you should do? Jai Maa! Chris , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > Wendy i think this is an interesting point you bring up. it is > sometimes difficult to determine what is truly the " spiritual " thing > to do. i have a personal example that just happened yesterday. > > after i finished work i went upstairs to our puja room to do puja, > which for me on this day constituted playing my naal while chanting. > just as i was starting my wife came upstairs and told me that there > was a tornado in the west suburbs headed this way, the news said it > should be here in about 10 minutes. i didn't really care cause the > news is usually wrong, so i said thanks and began my opening prayers. > after which i started to play the drum and chant my siva mantra. in > a few minutes the rain really started to come.. and it was coming down > harder and harder. the wind started to pick up. i was in my asana > and kept playing. there are windows behind our altar and as i am > looking at the altar the winds keep picking up. i start to hear the > sound of tree limbs snapping.. then i see the roof of the house across > the alley, about 50 ft. away, be torn from the building. as i watch > the roof blow off this building i kept playing, thinking i guess the > news was right, and as i feel the house start to shake a little i > realize this is not a joke. at that point i thought of Swamiji saying > once he sits he doesn't break his asana and also of the Markandeya > story he told in class. so i kept with the mantra and playing the > drum, though i would be lying if i said i wasn't scared. meanwhile > now i start to hear my wife downstairs screaming my name...... > > so my question is what is the proper action? is it spiritual to stay > seated and trust that we will be protected and not break my sankalpa. > or is it spiritual to get up and go to my wife and make sure she is ok > and do what i can to protect her? i won't say what i did because i am > interested to hear what anyone has to say about this. i think this is > a significant point for householders thanks for bringing it up. -eric > > JAI MA > > , " way131 " <wendy131@> wrote: > > > > Namaste Srini > > > > Thank you so much for posting this. For a householder like me, these > > very long pujas can feel overwhelming, let alone chanting Shiva's > > name all day, doing pranayama and hatha yoga, saying Ganesh's mantra > > every time I walk in and out of a room, working hard to complete my > > Peace Sankalpa, etc. All of that, in addition to remembering that > > both Beloved Shree Maa and Swamiji are with me all day and acting > > accordingly. > > Somewhere in there I can hear my family saying, " Wendy... Mom... > > where's dinner?! " > > > > > > Jai Maa!! Jai Swamiji!! > > > > love > > w > > > > , " srini_sadhu " <srini_sadhu@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > Several devotees with busy schedules have asked for smaller pujas > > > which they can perform on a daily basis, allowing for the > > performance > > > of the entire Kali Puja book on weekends and holidays when they have > > > more time. We recommend the following from the Kali Puja book: > > > > > > • Invitation and Vow of worship: pp. 6-27 (or 9-30) > > > • Purification of water and flowers: pp. 36-42 (or 41-44) > > > • Establishment of the deity within: pp. 57-59 (or 64-67) > > > • Offerings to the Goddess: pp. 72-82 (or 81-91) > > > • Closing Prayers: pp. 227-233(247-253) > > > > > > This practice can be completed in approximately half an hour, and > > can > > > accompany regular meditation practices. > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > srini > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Peace to you, Eric, IMHO, both your questions, to paraphrase, " should I stay or should I go " are truth. You, in your experience, on your Path, at that present moment, were protected . Your faith determined you were protected. Your wife, in her experience, on her own Path, in that present moment, may not have felt so protected. I may be going out on a limb, here, but Swamiji teaches/models what he does in the moment. That is his Path. I would venture to guess that he also is also extremely protected and he trusts that protection. He teaches how he became protected. He teaches us the ultimate in personal protection. But he would never judge right or wrong what another would do. How would we know what he would do if he was in an asan in the midst of a tornado...and all of the sudden any particular form of God said, " Hey, Swami, you'd better get up and go to the basement. " Swamiji would always, always follow that protection. (Is the vibrational energy of a mantra stronger than that of a tornado? Now there's a cool question! But as usual, I digress...) It was spiritual for you to stay. It would also have been spiritual to break the puja and serve the God in your wife. Perhaps she was the form of God that was telling you to get your tail downstairs. The rest of us do not know nor can we judge. Whatever it was you did, you trusted your ultimate intuition. Once one enters the thought seed, " should I " , there enters the equally, yet polar seed, " or shouldn't I " . The space lying between those two thought seeds is now conflict. You are no longer acting in the spiritual present moment, but in this foggy abyss of mind, thought, time and ego. What should " I " do? Doing one automatically conjurs up a hypothetical consequence for not doing the other. There now exists this new dimensional twist called, " what if? " Faith and trust in the universe get thrown out the window. What if your wife had come upstairs to rattle you back to reality and your roof blew off and she went with it, leaving you perfectly placid and peaceful in your puja? What if you went downstairs and now felt guilty for breaking your asana? Silly to ask, but what if? The householder in me says we ditch the should I, shouldn't I and what ifs, and just do. That is spiritual. And Wendy? You know I don't have to tell how cool it is to get all that love when that beautiful boy's tummy is full...you get hugged and told that that was the best dinner he's ever eaten (even if it was just mac and cheese), and you KNOW all is right in the universe! I guess this means y'all know that this mother hen would have been right down in the basement with her chicks under her wings...telling them they were safe. love to all, sal. , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > Wendy i think this is an interesting point you bring up. it is > sometimes difficult to determine what is truly the " spiritual " thing > to do. i have a personal example that just happened yesterday. > > after i finished work i went upstairs to our puja room to do puja, > which for me on this day constituted playing my naal while chanting. > just as i was starting my wife came upstairs and told me that there > was a tornado in the west suburbs headed this way, the news said it > should be here in about 10 minutes. i didn't really care cause the > news is usually wrong, so i said thanks and began my opening prayers. > after which i started to play the drum and chant my siva mantra. in > a few minutes the rain really started to come.. and it was coming down > harder and harder. the wind started to pick up. i was in my asana > and kept playing. there are windows behind our altar and as i am > looking at the altar the winds keep picking up. i start to hear the > sound of tree limbs snapping.. then i see the roof of the house across > the alley, about 50 ft. away, be torn from the building. as i watch > the roof blow off this building i kept playing, thinking i guess the > news was right, and as i feel the house start to shake a little i > realize this is not a joke. at that point i thought of Swamiji saying > once he sits he doesn't break his asana and also of the Markandeya > story he told in class. so i kept with the mantra and playing the > drum, though i would be lying if i said i wasn't scared. meanwhile > now i start to hear my wife downstairs screaming my name...... > > so my question is what is the proper action? is it spiritual to stay > seated and trust that we will be protected and not break my sankalpa. > or is it spiritual to get up and go to my wife and make sure she is ok > and do what i can to protect her? i won't say what i did because i am > interested to hear what anyone has to say about this. i think this is > a significant point for householders thanks for bringing it up. - eric > > JAI MA > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Namaste Sal! Wow! your post had me laughing and crying all at once! You are great! , " sal. " <salpaulsen wrote: > > Peace to you, Eric, > > IMHO, both your questions, to paraphrase, " should I stay or should I > go " are truth. You, in your experience, on your Path, at that > present moment, were protected . Your faith determined you were > protected. Your wife, in her experience, on her own Path, in that > present moment, may not have felt so protected. > > I may be going out on a limb, here, but Swamiji teaches/models what > he does in the moment. That is his Path. I would venture to guess > that he also is also extremely protected and he trusts that > protection. He teaches how he became protected. He teaches us the > ultimate in personal protection. But he would never judge right or > wrong what another would do. How would we know what he would do if > he was in an asan in the midst of a tornado...and all of the sudden > any particular form of God said, " Hey, Swami, you'd better get up and > go to the basement. " Swamiji would always, always follow that > protection. (Is the vibrational energy of a mantra stronger than > that of a tornado? Now there's a cool question! But as usual, I > digress...) > > It was spiritual for you to stay. It would also have been spiritual > to break the puja and serve the God in your wife. Perhaps she was > the form of God that was telling you to get your tail downstairs. > The rest of us do not know nor can we judge. Whatever it was you did, > you trusted your ultimate intuition. > > Once one enters the thought seed, " should I " , there enters the > equally, yet polar seed, " or shouldn't I " . The space lying between > those two thought seeds is now conflict. You are no longer acting in > the spiritual present moment, but in this foggy abyss of mind, > thought, time and ego. What should " I " do? Doing one automatically > conjurs up a hypothetical consequence for not doing the other. There > now exists this new dimensional twist called, " what if? " > > Faith and trust in the universe get thrown out the window. > > What if your wife had come upstairs to rattle you back to reality and > your roof blew off and she went with it, leaving you perfectly placid > and peaceful in your puja? What if you went downstairs and now felt > guilty for breaking your asana? Silly to ask, but what if? > > The householder in me says we ditch the should I, shouldn't I and > what ifs, and just do. That is spiritual. > > And Wendy? You know I don't have to tell how cool it is to get all > that love when that beautiful boy's tummy is full...you get hugged > and told that that was the best dinner he's ever eaten (even if it > was just mac and cheese), and you KNOW all is right in the universe! > > I guess this means y'all know that this mother hen would have been > right down in the basement with her chicks under her wings...telling > them they were safe. > > love to all, > sal. > > , " ecjensen_us " <ecjensen_us@> > wrote: > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > Wendy i think this is an interesting point you bring up. it is > > sometimes difficult to determine what is truly the " spiritual " thing > > to do. i have a personal example that just happened yesterday. > > > > after i finished work i went upstairs to our puja room to do puja, > > which for me on this day constituted playing my naal while > chanting. > > just as i was starting my wife came upstairs and told me that there > > was a tornado in the west suburbs headed this way, the news said it > > should be here in about 10 minutes. i didn't really care cause the > > news is usually wrong, so i said thanks and began my opening > prayers. > > after which i started to play the drum and chant my siva mantra. > in > > a few minutes the rain really started to come.. and it was coming > down > > harder and harder. the wind started to pick up. i was in my asana > > and kept playing. there are windows behind our altar and as i am > > looking at the altar the winds keep picking up. i start to hear the > > sound of tree limbs snapping.. then i see the roof of the house > across > > the alley, about 50 ft. away, be torn from the building. as i watch > > the roof blow off this building i kept playing, thinking i guess the > > news was right, and as i feel the house start to shake a little i > > realize this is not a joke. at that point i thought of Swamiji > saying > > once he sits he doesn't break his asana and also of the Markandeya > > story he told in class. so i kept with the mantra and playing the > > drum, though i would be lying if i said i wasn't scared. meanwhile > > now i start to hear my wife downstairs screaming my name...... > > > > so my question is what is the proper action? is it spiritual to > stay > > seated and trust that we will be protected and not break my > sankalpa. > > or is it spiritual to get up and go to my wife and make sure she is > ok > > and do what i can to protect her? i won't say what i did because i > am > > interested to hear what anyone has to say about this. i think this > is > > a significant point for householders thanks for bringing it up. - > eric > > > > JAI MA > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 This is such an interesting story - how did it come out? If your wife was possibly in very serious danger, then I would say break your asana and get to her fast. Or was she scared for your safety?Here is an old story, and most of you have probably heard it before - if so, please indulge me telling it:The Guru told the diciple "everything is God". One day the disciple was walking along, and an elephant came charging down the road. The elephant had gone totally crazy and was charging strait toward the disciple. There was a man running behind the elephant screaming "get out of the way!!!!"This disciple said to himself " My beloved Guruji said that everything is God. Therefore, I have nothing to fear. This elephant is God.The disciple was trampled by the elephant and nearly died. Later, he was so upset with his Guru. "You told me everything is God, he said. I believed that elephant was God, but I nearly died ! "The Guru compassionately looked at his disciple. "Yes," he said. "Everything is God! But why did you not see that the man who was telling you to get out of the way was also God?"Jai Maa.gauri_108 <gauri_108 wrote: Namaste Sal! Wow! your post had me laughing and crying all at once! You are great! , "sal." <salpaulsen wrote: > > Peace to you, Eric, > > IMHO, both your questions, to paraphrase, "should I stay or should I > go" are truth. You, in your experience, on your Path, at that > present moment, were protected . Your faith determined you were > protected. Your wife, in her experience, on her own Path, in that > present moment, may not have felt so protected. > > I may be going out on a limb, here, but Swamiji teaches/models what > he does in the moment. That is his Path. I would venture to guess > that he also is also extremely protected and he trusts that > protection. He teaches how he became protected. He teaches us the > ultimate in personal protection. But he would never judge right or > wrong what another would do. How would we know what he would do if > he was in an asan in the midst of a tornado...and all of the sudden > any particular form of God said, "Hey, Swami, you'd better get up and > go to the basement." Swamiji would always, always follow that > protection. (Is the vibrational energy of a mantra stronger than > that of a tornado? Now there's a cool question! But as usual, I > digress...) > > It was spiritual for you to stay. It would also have been spiritual > to break the puja and serve the God in your wife. Perhaps she was > the form of God that was telling you to get your tail downstairs. > The rest of us do not know nor can we judge. Whatever it was you did, > you trusted your ultimate intuition. > > Once one enters the thought seed, "should I", there enters the > equally, yet polar seed, "or shouldn't I". The space lying between > those two thought seeds is now conflict. You are no longer acting in > the spiritual present moment, but in this foggy abyss of mind, > thought, time and ego. What should "I" do? Doing one automatically > conjurs up a hypothetical consequence for not doing the other. There > now exists this new dimensional twist called, "what if?" > > Faith and trust in the universe get thrown out the window. > > What if your wife had come upstairs to rattle you back to reality and > your roof blew off and she went with it, leaving you perfectly placid > and peaceful in your puja? What if you went downstairs and now felt > guilty for breaking your asana? Silly to ask, but what if? > > The householder in me says we ditch the should I, shouldn't I and > what ifs, and just do. That is spiritual. > > And Wendy? You know I don't have to tell how cool it is to get all > that love when that beautiful boy's tummy is full...you get hugged > and told that that was the best dinner he's ever eaten (even if it > was just mac and cheese), and you KNOW all is right in the universe! > > I guess this means y'all know that this mother hen would have been > right down in the basement with her chicks under her wings...telling > them they were safe. > > love to all, > sal. > > , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us@> > wrote: > > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > Wendy i think this is an interesting point you bring up. it is > > sometimes difficult to determine what is truly the "spiritual" thing > > to do. i have a personal example that just happened yesterday. > > > > after i finished work i went upstairs to our puja room to do puja, > > which for me on this day constituted playing my naal while > chanting. > > just as i was starting my wife came upstairs and told me that there > > was a tornado in the west suburbs headed this way, the news said it > > should be here in about 10 minutes. i didn't really care cause the > > news is usually wrong, so i said thanks and began my opening > prayers. > > after which i started to play the drum and chant my siva mantra. > in > > a few minutes the rain really started to come.. and it was coming > down > > harder and harder. the wind started to pick up. i was in my asana > > and kept playing. there are windows behind our altar and as i am > > looking at the altar the winds keep picking up. i start to hear the > > sound of tree limbs snapping.. then i see the roof of the house > across > > the alley, about 50 ft. away, be torn from the building. as i watch > > the roof blow off this building i kept playing, thinking i guess the > > news was right, and as i feel the house start to shake a little i > > realize this is not a joke. at that point i thought of Swamiji > saying > > once he sits he doesn't break his asana and also of the Markandeya > > story he told in class. so i kept with the mantra and playing the > > drum, though i would be lying if i said i wasn't scared. meanwhile > > now i start to hear my wife downstairs screaming my name...... > > > > so my question is what is the proper action? is it spiritual to > stay > > seated and trust that we will be protected and not break my > sankalpa. > > or is it spiritual to get up and go to my wife and make sure she is > ok > > and do what i can to protect her? i won't say what i did because i > am > > interested to hear what anyone has to say about this. i think this > is > > a significant point for householders thanks for bringing it up. - > eric > > > > JAI MA > > > > > Need a vacation? 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