Guest guest Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Namaste all: As I read your posts, I thought Swami's words could help clarify some issues. And, raise more points to ponder. There is a wonderful short book Swami has published. All should partake of it. It is an outline of the entire course of study for all devotees. Swami uses it as the course syllabus for the classes He teaches. It is titled: " TATTVA JNANA " These words mean: Knowledge of the Principles. The principles discussed in the book " are the road maps to the understanding of who we are. " I will quote from it to add some flavor to our discussion. Keep in mind that the level of consciousness of the devotee directly influences how one views and understands Reality. Thus, traditional Hindu teaching states that there are 3 forms of Maya. This understanding shapes our perception of the Ego and our interaction to him/her and the world. Each of the quotes below are inter-related, and taken from different parts of the text. " There are 3 forms of Maya. Maya of Vedanta, Maya of Tantra, and Maya of Sankhya. Maya of Sankhya: is defined as the illusion which obscures the reality Maya as illusion Maya of Tantra: is the embodiment of the Divine Mother Maya as the universal body of nature Maya of Vedanta: is the measurement of consciousness. Maya is the One Consciousness in harmony with its own self A famous proclamation of Vedanta is: Brahma satya jagat mitya This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the same and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing and therefore it is false. " And from two biographies, one on the life of Ramakrishna and the other on Sarada Devi, His wife. I add reflections from these two Realized Beings regarding their understanding and experience of the ego. I quote loosely from these two texts. Each was quoted as saying similar things: " Please Divine Mother, bring we down so that I can work in the world and do your will. If I stay in this high plane of existence, I cannot be of service to the devotees. Bring me down. " Their disciples overheard these statements and were amazed that Divine Beings would want to come to a lower state of consciousness. Maa and Swami have said that Self Realized beings still have some trace of ego so that they can work in the world. A thin sheen of ego, just enough so they have individuality. Otherwise, they enter into samadi, and in that state of oneness with God, they are totally unaware of the world. Unable to function. I hope these quotes stimulate some discussion and comments. Ultimately, as we learn in the Chandi Path, we have to surrender our thoughts, fears, compulsions, appetites, and the ego to Chandi, as She is the only one who can eliminate our suffering. Join us Sunday morning while we chant with Maa and Swami at 9:30 pacific time at www.shreemaa.org and click on the " web cam " . Pull up you seat, get your Chandi on your lap, and join us in throwing all our problems into the Divine Fire. As Swami calls the Divine Fire, " a karma barbeque " . Jai Ma Jai Swami vishweshwar , " sal. " <salpaulsen wrote: > > Peace to you both, Eric and Erin! > > What a great coversation! I have to admit that my understanding of > Hindu language is woefully inadequate, but I am conceptually > following the dialogue enough to ask the following questions(s): > > What is higher than the ahamkara (I AM)? Or is the ahamkara > just " I " ? Is the ahamkara simply the ultimate awareness? Ego is the > awareness of the ability to make a choice and " see " the separation? > Because truly, when one ultimately becomes aware and realized in > his/her oneness with God/dess, then there really is no choice, > because then, reality becomes an illusory drama and the path is > actually very simple and very clear. > > One can embrace the actual realization and love it as a very good > thing and be profoundly grateful. One can also embrace that one > can " step down " so to speak and make choices (this being my > understanding of the mahishasura - or I AM Now Choosing). That's > what we are here as spiritual beings playing a human game are to do. > > So, would one who has not re-membered or realized their spiritual > oneness with All There Is actually be in possession of ahamkara (or > do we have it and it is perhaps just simply lying dormant until > activiation), the person remaining unaware, or lacking discernment or > being uable to make a choice from the highest perspective? > > I bow to your tireless search for the Truth. Thank you both for > causing those wheels to spin... > > much love to all! > sal. > > , Eric Cassils <Quanchula1@> > wrote: > > > > Jai Maa Kaalii and Namaste Erin, > > > > I thank you for the response! Even though my entry > > was worded in hurry, it was hoped people who had > > perceptions to share would discuss them. You are > > correct Im referring to Ahamkara as well as > > Mahishasura. > > > > I don't want to make assumptions for my friend, but I > > know he is very familiar with yogic terminology and > > very well understands how the term is applied. He > > suggested I read something he channeled about the Ego > > years ago from beings he calls the Manu or Emmanuel, > > who he feels authored the Rg Veda. It says that one > > should never surrender to the illusion of seperation, > > but rather surrender to the truth behind it. He claims > > that to see the Ego/Ahamkara/Mahishasura as seperate > > from Pranava and as something impure/imperfect/lowly, > > is to gaze through the illusory dualistic lense of > > seperation. For him it is the illusionary seperation > > and dualism between the Ego and the Divine that is the > > issue, not the Ego itself. This may be a case of a > > subtle ego trick of justifying its imbalance. The > > Chandi helps to remember Maa everywhere and everywhen, > > not increase seperation from Her. Though I feel there > > is some truth to the Ahamkara being a tool of that > > Omniscient Shakthi, when it wakes up and get's past > > " MeMeMe " to realise " MAMAMA. " > > > > I appreciate your recounting of Swami's reflections on > > Tamas, how it is a necessary aspect of creation, but > > taken to an excess results in devolution. > > Expanding the ego beyond individual limits into the > > universal seems to be the key, growing up past the > > teenage stage into fully fledged awakening. I do > > remember though the potential for Ego inflation as one > > progresses in knowledge and vidya. However it is true > > Vidya it should be Veda(wise), and that Light of > > Wisdom must protect us from those inflation tricks so > > that we can walk the razors edge without shedding a > > drop of blood and falling from exalted grace of jnana. > > > > With Gratitude and Love, Jai Maa and Jai Swami!!! > > Shantihi! > > -Eric > > \\ > > --- Erin Sundari Johansen Hurwitt > > <erin.johansen@> wrote: > > > > > Jai Maa! and namaste Eric, > > > > > > You didn't ask for my opinion, but I find this > > > interesting, so I humbly and > > > with love offer my thoughts. I assume that when you > > > talk about " ego " you're > > > talking about " ahamkara. " If that is the case, It > > > seems to me that your > > > friend has mistaken ego (as in, Western > > > [pop-]psychology with all its bad > > > connotations) for ego (as in, ahamkara, literally > > > the " I-maker " of Hindu > > > philosophy). > > > > > > I am reminded of what Swamiji said about Tamas in > > > his Kali Puja classes - > > > that Tamas isn't a bad thing, in fact it's necessary > > > for these bodies that > > > are our vehicles on this planet. It's just when we > > > get too much of it or use > > > it improperly or without discernment/awareness that > > > there are problems. > > > > > > Ahamkara is useful! It allows us to exist in this > > > physical world to do what > > > we need to do for spiritual progression. But it also > > > takes over, makes us > > > forget that Maa exists, or that we are connected > > > intimately to all of > > > creation, makes us forget that we are actually one > > > with everything; the tool > > > that helps us exist in the world also makes us stuck > > > in the world. It is > > > jnana (knowledge) and vidya (wisdom) that help > > > expand ahamkara and teach it > > > to grow up, and realize that Everything Is Not All > > > About Me. That everything > > > is all about MAA! Mahadevi! Great Mother! Or however > > > it is useful for me see > > > God/dess, right? But ahamkara likes being right, so > > > it fights divine wisdom > > > like a hyperactive teenager. > > > > > > I think your friend is right in some way; sure, > > > ahamkara is Maa just as > > > everything is Maa, it's a tool Maa has given us - > > > but the flaw in his logic > > > is that it also is responsible for keeping us > > > separate from Maa, because it > > > is like that hyperactive teenager, really a sweet > > > thing at heart, but trying > > > to be grown up and wise without really not > > > understanding how everything is > > > connected. It's a trick of ahamkara to equate > > > oneself with ahamkara, with > > > the individual personality. But to say that it (or > > > anything else) is > > > separate from Maa may also be another trick of > > > ahamkara! > > > > > > Anyway, my thought is, if one can use wisdom and > > > discernment to expand > > > one's " ego " (that is, the " I-maker " ) to include > > > everything and find oneness > > > with the Ultimate, so that it is not " I " and " you " > > > but " MAA " then it becomes > > > a tool rather than a hindrance. So I don't think > > > either you or your friend > > > is " right " or " wrong, " necessarily. > > > > > > Just my two cents, to take or leave. > > > > > > And regardless, I have faith that Swamiji and/or > > > Shree Maa (well, there's me > > > thinking of them as separate! how foolish of me!) > > > will have a short, > > > sweet and powerful response to your question. > > > > > > shanti, > > > sundari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 2007 7:38 AM, Eric Cassils > > > <Quanchula1@> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste Vishweshwar, > > > > > > > > Your remark about the the ego is interesting, and > > > I > > > > resonate with it, however, when I spoke to one of > > > my > > > > friends who I believe does not understand the > > > pitfalls > > > > of ego, and mentioned Sri Maa's remark that " Ego > > > is > > > > the enemy of wisdom. Ego can make you fall' to try > > > to > > > > help him negate some of the impulsive drives he > > > was he > > > > experiencing, he just responded by saying " Embrace > > > the > > > > Ego as God already " and that he is no " hindu > > > > purusha/prakriti dualist' as if to say that > > > viewing > > > > the ego as seperate from God is just a perverse > > > form > > > > of inane dualism. Ego must have been created by > > > God, > > > > but just because God creates something, does that > > > make > > > > God's creation equal with God? I replied to my > > > friend > > > > that I would not embrace the ego as God already, > > > as > > > > that is simply not my experience of the ego, and I > > > > much prefered to receive the grace of Maa that > > > slices > > > > and dices away at persona imbalances such as > > > inflated > > > > pride, ignorace and pomposity. What do Swami and > > > Maa > > > > have to say about this idea that ego is God > > > already? > > > > Much Love, Jai Maa! Jai Svami, > > > > Eric > > > > --- inspectionconnection108 > > > > <inspectionconnection108@ > > > <inspectionconnection108%40>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Namaste Wendy: Thanks for posting from your > > > heart. > > > > > I truly > > > > > understand how difficult it can be to be away > > > from > > > > > Maa. That said, > > > > > you refused to surrender to the ego and made the > > > > > effort to stay tuned > > > > > to Her in your heart. Sure we know She is always > > > > > there, but we do > > > > > forget. But She never forgets, She never goes > > > away, > > > > > She is amazing. > > > > > She is our Guru. She brings the Light to dispel > > > the > > > > > darkness. > > > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > > > " way131 " > > > > > <wendy131@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Vish, > > > > > > I am so glad to see the webcam working again. > > > Not > > > > > having the link of > > > > > > the webcam has proven to be a very interesting > > > > > stretch of time for > > > > > > me -- kind of like my personal Kali Yuga! One > > > > > thing I saw, close up > > > > > > and personal, was the working of my ego and my > > > > > attachments. I hate to > > > > > > say it, but I will admit that sometimes I felt > > > > > frustrated by > > > > > > not 'seeing' life at the Mandir. I knew there > > > were > > > > > activities going > > > > > > on, but I couldn't see it, I couldn't hear it, > > > and > > > > > I felt " left out. " > > > > > > > > > > > > One way (there were others as well) I picked > > > > > myself up and shut down > > > > > > my ego was to return to Shree Maa's > > > Autobiography. > > > > > Reading and > > > > > > rereading that book always seems to have a > > > magical > > > > > effect on me – it > > > > > > helps me feel closer to beloved Shree Maa and > > > > > serves as another > > > > > > reminder that She is always with me. > > > > > > So, I guess my studies here have helped me > > > (yes, > > > > > this is quite an > > > > > > undersatement!). Previously, it would be easy > > > for > > > > > me to just get lost > > > > > > in the daily drama of life and 'forget' about > > > my > > > > > spiritual practices, > > > > > > but not this time. > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > ______________ > > Be a better pen pal. > > Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how. > http://overview.mail./ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Peace to you, Vish, Some of your comments are a little confusing and contradictory to me. Perhaps you can kindly clarify what you mean when you first write: " This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the same and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing and therefore it is false. " Then in the next paragraph, you speak of Ramakrishna wanting to come down to lower levels of consciousness in order to serve in the world. You also state that it is one's level of consciousness that shapes one's reality. Do levels of consciousness change, or is it levels of Ego? Cannot one who is aware/realized operate in the world, always acting in Truth and in Love/Light/Divinity, having risen above the free-will choice/duality/identity that implies possession of (a lower) Ego? I most humbly regret that I do not know the Hindu-word/definitions for these concepts. I understand what Eric and Erin were trying to convey. Based on your discussion, I am less understanding if you are implying the same concept. That whole, you say " to-may-to " , I say " to-mah-to " thing...(?) love to all! sal. In , " inspectionconnection108 " <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > Namaste all: > As I read your posts, I thought Swami's words could help clarify some > issues. And, raise more points to ponder. > There is a wonderful short book Swami has published. All should > partake of it. It is an outline of the entire course of study for all > devotees. Swami uses it as the course syllabus for the classes He > teaches. It is titled: " TATTVA JNANA " These words mean: Knowledge of > the Principles. The principles discussed in the book " are the road > maps to the understanding of who we are. " > I will quote from it to add some flavor to our discussion. Keep in > mind that the level of consciousness of the devotee directly > influences how one views and understands Reality. Thus, traditional > Hindu teaching states that there are 3 forms of Maya. This > understanding shapes our perception of the Ego and our interaction to > him/her and the world. > Each of the quotes below are inter-related, and taken from different > parts of the text. > > " There are 3 forms of Maya. Maya of Vedanta, Maya of Tantra, and Maya > of Sankhya. > Maya of Sankhya: is defined as the illusion which obscures the reality > Maya as illusion > > Maya of Tantra: is the embodiment of the Divine Mother > Maya as the universal body of nature > > Maya of Vedanta: is the measurement of consciousness. > Maya is the One Consciousness in harmony with its own self > > A famous proclamation of Vedanta is: > > Brahma satya jagat mitya > > This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " > Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the same > and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing and > therefore it is false. " > > And from two biographies, one on the life of Ramakrishna and the other > on Sarada Devi, His wife. I add reflections from these two Realized > Beings regarding their understanding and experience of the ego. > I quote loosely from these two texts. Each was quoted as saying > similar things: " Please Divine Mother, bring we down so that I can > work in the world and do your will. If I stay in this high plane of > existence, I cannot be of service to the devotees. Bring me down. " > Their disciples overheard these statements and were amazed that Divine > Beings would want to come to a lower state of consciousness. > > Maa and Swami have said that Self Realized beings still have some > trace of ego so that they can work in the world. A thin sheen of ego, > just enough so they have individuality. Otherwise, they enter into > samadi, and in that state of oneness with God, they are totally > unaware of the world. Unable to function. > > I hope these quotes stimulate some discussion and comments. > Ultimately, as we learn in the Chandi Path, we have to surrender our > thoughts, fears, compulsions, appetites, and the ego to Chandi, as She > is the only one who can eliminate our suffering. > Join us Sunday morning while we chant with Maa and Swami at 9:30 > pacific time at www.shreemaa.org and click on the " web cam " . > Pull up you seat, get your Chandi on your lap, and join us in throwing > all our problems into the Divine Fire. As Swami calls the Divine > Fire, " a karma barbeque " . > > Jai Ma Jai Swami > > vishweshwar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Namaste Sal and all: Peace to you. For the majority of us, the " i " , ego, ahamkara, the small self, governs our daily life. The ego makes individuality. The ego divides the world into me and mine, and thus, cannot experience Truth. Pure Consciousness is TRUTH. It is always the same, never changing. The world we experience, as shaped by the ego, is constantly changing. Thus, we must transcend the ego, to experience the Self, Truth, the One, SatChitAnanda= UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS. As the great sage Kasyapa said: " We are seeking the highest victory in order to destroy the pain of desire. Victory destroys pain. The highest victory destroys the greatest pain, the feeling that we are separate. The greatest victory is victory over the ego, that which makes individuality. " Page 71 of Kasyapa Sutras, translated by Swami. Swami continues: " If we have victory over our ego, we destroy pain and separation, because we become one with SATCHIDANANDA, universal consciousness. Whenever there is desire there is pain. The greatest desire is to realize that we are one with God. " Ramakrishna, and all the realized ones have said one cannot describe the experience of Oneness with God. Since the ego is not there to describe the experience, since there is no " thee and me " , no object and observer, only the experiences of Oneness, then all one can say is about it is: " not this, not that " . It is the experience of Oneness. If Ramakrishna had no ego, He could not act in the world. So, He prayed to Divine Mother to bring Him down into the state of duality, where He could act and interact with His disciples. One could think of Him as a fully dyed cloth. In India, the cloth is put into vat of dye, then, fully saturated with color, it is put into the hot sun and most of the color is faded out. Then it is re-dyed and again put into the sun. At some point, it becomes color fast and the sun can no longer bleach it out. In a similar fashion, Ramakrishna dove deep into Pure Consciousness, and the ego melted away. When He returned to waking consciousness, the ego no longer had the power to bind and confuse Him. He was " color fast " . He lived with God, while living in the world of duality. He had a thin sheen of ego, just enough that He could interact with the world, yet, not be bound by it. We are taught that consciousness is steady, never changing, Truth, while the ego based world is ever changing. Thus, one can say that knowledge is structured in consciousness and knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. For example: If I am awake I see the world one way. It appears normal. If I am dreaming, I can fly thru the air, and if I am dead asleep, I have no awareness at all. Thus, whatever state of consciousness I am experiencing, my knowledge of the world is different. So, to know Truth, one must know pure consciouness. It never changes, but " i /ego, change all the time. I am never the same. Until I realize my true nature, Pure Consciousness, God, I will suffer, and always want something more. Until I realize my true nature, I will be unhappy, always searching. Jai Maa Jai Swami vishweshwar , " sal. " <salpaulsen wrote: > > Peace to you, Vish, > > Some of your comments are a little confusing and contradictory to > me. Perhaps you can kindly clarify what you mean when you first > write: > > " This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " > Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the > same and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing > and therefore it is false. " > > Then in the next paragraph, you speak of Ramakrishna wanting to come > down to lower levels of consciousness in order to serve in the > world. > > You also state that it is one's level of consciousness that shapes > one's reality. > > Do levels of consciousness change, or is it levels of Ego? Cannot > one who is aware/realized operate in the world, always acting in > Truth and in Love/Light/Divinity, having risen above the free-will > choice/duality/identity that implies possession of (a lower) Ego? > > I most humbly regret that I do not know the Hindu-word/definitions > for these concepts. I understand what Eric and Erin were trying to > convey. Based on your discussion, I am less understanding if you are > implying the same concept. > > That whole, you say " to-may-to " , I say " to-mah-to " thing...(?) > > love to all! > sal. > > > In , " inspectionconnection108 " > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > Namaste all: > > As I read your posts, I thought Swami's words could help clarify > some > > issues. And, raise more points to ponder. > > There is a wonderful short book Swami has published. All should > > partake of it. It is an outline of the entire course of study for > all > > devotees. Swami uses it as the course syllabus for the classes He > > teaches. It is titled: " TATTVA JNANA " These words mean: Knowledge > of > > the Principles. The principles discussed in the book " are the road > > maps to the understanding of who we are. " > > I will quote from it to add some flavor to our discussion. Keep in > > mind that the level of consciousness of the devotee directly > > influences how one views and understands Reality. Thus, traditional > > Hindu teaching states that there are 3 forms of Maya. This > > understanding shapes our perception of the Ego and our interaction > to > > him/her and the world. > > Each of the quotes below are inter-related, and taken from different > > parts of the text. > > > > " There are 3 forms of Maya. Maya of Vedanta, Maya of Tantra, and > Maya > > of Sankhya. > > Maya of Sankhya: is defined as the illusion which obscures the > reality > > Maya as illusion > > > > Maya of Tantra: is the embodiment of the Divine Mother > > Maya as the universal body of nature > > > > Maya of Vedanta: is the measurement of consciousness. > > Maya is the One Consciousness in harmony with its own self > > > > A famous proclamation of Vedanta is: > > > > Brahma satya jagat mitya > > > > This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " > > Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the > same > > and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing and > > therefore it is false. " > > > > And from two biographies, one on the life of Ramakrishna and the > other > > on Sarada Devi, His wife. I add reflections from these two Realized > > Beings regarding their understanding and experience of the ego. > > I quote loosely from these two texts. Each was quoted as saying > > similar things: " Please Divine Mother, bring we down so that I can > > work in the world and do your will. If I stay in this high plane of > > existence, I cannot be of service to the devotees. Bring me down. " > > Their disciples overheard these statements and were amazed that > Divine > > Beings would want to come to a lower state of consciousness. > > > > Maa and Swami have said that Self Realized beings still have some > > trace of ego so that they can work in the world. A thin sheen of > ego, > > just enough so they have individuality. Otherwise, they enter into > > samadi, and in that state of oneness with God, they are totally > > unaware of the world. Unable to function. > > > > I hope these quotes stimulate some discussion and comments. > > Ultimately, as we learn in the Chandi Path, we have to surrender our > > thoughts, fears, compulsions, appetites, and the ego to Chandi, as > She > > is the only one who can eliminate our suffering. > > Join us Sunday morning while we chant with Maa and Swami at 9:30 > > pacific time at www.shreemaa.org and click on the " web cam " . > > Pull up you seat, get your Chandi on your lap, and join us in > throwing > > all our problems into the Divine Fire. As Swami calls the Divine > > Fire, " a karma barbeque " . > > > > Jai Ma Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Thank you, Vish. Much more clear. I am grateful for the thought and effort you kindly made to clarify this for all of us. peace! sal. , " inspectionconnection108 " <inspectionconnection108 wrote: > > Namaste Sal and all: Peace to you. > For the majority of us, the " i " , ego, ahamkara, the small self, > governs our daily life. The ego makes individuality. The ego divides > the world into me and mine, and thus, cannot experience Truth. Pure > Consciousness is TRUTH. It is always the same, never changing. The > world we experience, as shaped by the ego, is constantly changing. > Thus, we must transcend the ego, to experience the Self, Truth, the > One, SatChitAnanda= UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS. > As the great sage Kasyapa said: " We are seeking the highest victory in > order to destroy the pain of desire. Victory destroys pain. The > highest victory destroys the greatest pain, the feeling that we are > separate. The greatest victory is victory over the ego, that which > makes individuality. " Page 71 of Kasyapa Sutras, translated by Swami. > Swami continues: " If we have victory over our ego, we destroy pain and > separation, because we become one with SATCHIDANANDA, universal > consciousness. > Whenever there is desire there is pain. The greatest desire is to > realize that we are one with God. " > > Ramakrishna, and all the realized ones have said one cannot describe > the experience of Oneness with God. Since the ego is not there to > describe the experience, since there is no " thee and me " , no object > and observer, only the experiences of Oneness, then all one can say is > about it is: " not this, not that " . It is the experience of Oneness. > If Ramakrishna had no ego, He could not act in the world. So, He > prayed to Divine Mother to bring Him down into the state of duality, > where He could act and interact with His disciples. > One could think of Him as a fully dyed cloth. In India, the cloth is > put into vat of dye, then, fully saturated with color, it is put into > the hot sun and most of the color is faded out. Then it is re-dyed > and again put into the sun. At some point, it becomes color fast and > the sun can no longer bleach it out. > In a similar fashion, Ramakrishna dove deep into Pure Consciousness, > and the ego melted away. When He returned to waking consciousness, the > ego no longer had the power to bind and confuse Him. He was " color > fast " . He lived with God, while living in the world of duality. He > had a thin sheen of ego, just enough that He could interact with the > world, yet, not be bound by it. > > We are taught that consciousness is steady, never changing, Truth, > while the ego based world is ever changing. Thus, one can say that > knowledge is structured in consciousness and knowledge is different in > different states of consciousness. > For example: If I am awake I see the world one way. It appears > normal. If I am dreaming, I can fly thru the air, and if I am dead > asleep, I have no awareness at all. Thus, whatever state of > consciousness I am experiencing, my knowledge of the world is different. > So, to know Truth, one must know pure consciouness. It never changes, > but " i /ego, change all the time. I am never the same. Until I > realize my true nature, Pure Consciousness, God, I will suffer, and > always want something more. Until I realize my true nature, I will be > unhappy, always searching. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > > , " sal. " <salpaulsen@> wrote: > > > > Peace to you, Vish, > > > > Some of your comments are a little confusing and contradictory to > > me. Perhaps you can kindly clarify what you mean when you first > > write: > > > > " This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " > > Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the > > same and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing > > and therefore it is false. " > > > > Then in the next paragraph, you speak of Ramakrishna wanting to come > > down to lower levels of consciousness in order to serve in the > > world. > > > > You also state that it is one's level of consciousness that shapes > > one's reality. > > > > Do levels of consciousness change, or is it levels of Ego? Cannot > > one who is aware/realized operate in the world, always acting in > > Truth and in Love/Light/Divinity, having risen above the free- will > > choice/duality/identity that implies possession of (a lower) Ego? > > > > I most humbly regret that I do not know the Hindu- word/definitions > > for these concepts. I understand what Eric and Erin were trying to > > convey. Based on your discussion, I am less understanding if you are > > implying the same concept. > > > > That whole, you say " to-may-to " , I say " to-mah-to " thing...(?) > > > > love to all! > > sal. > > > > > > In , " inspectionconnection108 " > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste all: > > > As I read your posts, I thought Swami's words could help clarify > > some > > > issues. And, raise more points to ponder. > > > There is a wonderful short book Swami has published. All should > > > partake of it. It is an outline of the entire course of study for > > all > > > devotees. Swami uses it as the course syllabus for the classes He > > > teaches. It is titled: " TATTVA JNANA " These words mean: Knowledge > > of > > > the Principles. The principles discussed in the book " are the road > > > maps to the understanding of who we are. " > > > I will quote from it to add some flavor to our discussion. Keep in > > > mind that the level of consciousness of the devotee directly > > > influences how one views and understands Reality. Thus, traditional > > > Hindu teaching states that there are 3 forms of Maya. This > > > understanding shapes our perception of the Ego and our interaction > > to > > > him/her and the world. > > > Each of the quotes below are inter-related, and taken from different > > > parts of the text. > > > > > > " There are 3 forms of Maya. Maya of Vedanta, Maya of Tantra, and > > Maya > > > of Sankhya. > > > Maya of Sankhya: is defined as the illusion which obscures the > > reality > > > Maya as illusion > > > > > > Maya of Tantra: is the embodiment of the Divine Mother > > > Maya as the universal body of nature > > > > > > Maya of Vedanta: is the measurement of consciousness. > > > Maya is the One Consciousness in harmony with its own self > > > > > > A famous proclamation of Vedanta is: > > > > > > Brahma satya jagat mitya > > > > > > This means: " The Supreme Divinity is true and the world is not. " > > > Swami's commentary on the statement: " Consciousness is always the > > same > > > and therefore is true and abiding. The world is always changing and > > > therefore it is false. " > > > > > > And from two biographies, one on the life of Ramakrishna and the > > other > > > on Sarada Devi, His wife. I add reflections from these two Realized > > > Beings regarding their understanding and experience of the ego. > > > I quote loosely from these two texts. Each was quoted as saying > > > similar things: " Please Divine Mother, bring we down so that I can > > > work in the world and do your will. If I stay in this high plane of > > > existence, I cannot be of service to the devotees. Bring me down. " > > > Their disciples overheard these statements and were amazed that > > Divine > > > Beings would want to come to a lower state of consciousness. > > > > > > Maa and Swami have said that Self Realized beings still have some > > > trace of ego so that they can work in the world. A thin sheen of > > ego, > > > just enough so they have individuality. Otherwise, they enter into > > > samadi, and in that state of oneness with God, they are totally > > > unaware of the world. Unable to function. > > > > > > I hope these quotes stimulate some discussion and comments. > > > Ultimately, as we learn in the Chandi Path, we have to surrender our > > > thoughts, fears, compulsions, appetites, and the ego to Chandi, as > > She > > > is the only one who can eliminate our suffering. > > > Join us Sunday morning while we chant with Maa and Swami at 9:30 > > > pacific time at www.shreemaa.org and click on the " web cam " . > > > Pull up you seat, get your Chandi on your lap, and join us in > > throwing > > > all our problems into the Divine Fire. As Swami calls the Divine > > > Fire, " a karma barbeque " . > > > > > > Jai Ma Jai Swami > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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