Guest guest Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Namaste Liz: thanks so much for joining into this discussion. Some great answers have come from our family. I cannot quite understand what you mean about " finding your voice by complaining " , so I cannot address that. Please clarify for me. Regarding dealing with a chronic " judger " , I have had experience with that type of behavior. Two types of behavior worked for me: the first was developing an understanding of the person's frame of reference, and once i understood that, I could relate to their behavior with love and acceptance. I had to learn " not to take it personally " . Of course, that involves a certain level of non-attachment to my ego. #2: When I am tired or in an " ego based " mode of operation, I did not have that clear and quiet space within to " witness " their judgment and reflect love to them. So, I had only one choice: I had to turn and walk away. Also, please read the post #25366 of Jennifer for some great advice. Jai Maa Jai Swami vishweshwar -- In , Liz Stein <mamao24 wrote: > > Hello All. Nameste. My name is Elizabeth and I am from Athens, GA. I have been quietly watching and reading these posts for a few months now and I feel very moved about the recent discussions in regards to judgement versus acceptance. Any comments or insights would be greatly appreciated. > > How about complaining...can all complaining be classified as a form of judgment and if so, is there ever a need for a person to complain? An example might be in the case of one who has trouble speaking his/her thoughts and feelings and using complaint as a tool in learning to let voice flow. It seems a very fine line, if possible or is it different: finding voice vs. complaining/judging? > > Also, what is the best way to deal with an individual stuck, even addicted to judgment? As I write this, I am remembering a teacher who used to with his own students, say " ah that is your judge. Love your judge and give him compasion until he is quiet " . Are there any other suggestions for dealing with others that may not be so aware, especially if they are close freinds or family? > > Thanks for the help and thanks for all the wonderful posts. It's really so nice to know there are places one can go and be more true to self. > > Love and Light, > Liz > > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Leela: What a great message. The Zen Master captured the > essence into that mantra. So perfect. Only one established in Being > could manifest that mantra. A God Realized American woman named > Peace, who walked for many years to and fro across America praying for > Peace, stated much the same. And she lived by that precept, and love > flowed from her as the sweet scent flows from a beautiful flower, and > those who met her were filled with peace. > I love to see how seers of different cultures arrive at the same > conclusion, the universal truths, and pass their realizations onto > those in need. > I pray that we all can realize that sweet state of being where we see > God in All and All in God, then we will truly be living our divine > purpose on this Earth. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > , " deviloka " <deviloka@> wrote: > > > > Beloved Vishweshwar, > > Many people are not even aware of themselves and their attitudes the > > way you are! I see it as a product of much spiritual practice and > > meditation, and purification of the mind, that you can even ask this > > question! I am so thankful that you did as well! I, too, often catch > > myself in judging myself and others or faultfinding, much to my > > dismay. I also try to substitute thoughts with mantra or to remind > > myself that I really don't know anything anyway, so my judgement is > > likely to be in error. This seems to come up again and again at > > deeper levels. I KNOW better, but I catch myself doing it anyway! My > > latest " tactic " has given me interesting results, when I find myself > > judging any person or situation in a negative light, no matter > > whether it is my personal life, or even world events, I repeat the > > mantra of the woman Zen Master Sono, whose only teaching was to give > > out the following mantra to everyone who came to her: " Thank-You for > > everything. I have no complaints whatsoever. " > > I never realized how much of my inner time and thought was spent > > inwardly complaining about this or that or the other until I started > > remembering Master Sono's Mantra! > > My most immediate realization was that each judgement comes with a > > complaint and each complaint comes because I am not getting my > > desires met. (Even the desire for world peace!) Master Sono's Mantra > > stops this thinking in it's tracks and reminds me that in Maa > > Consciousness, there is no lack and no wanting, only the fullness of > > perfection in the moment. Then I am able to think and act more in > > accord with my yogic ideals. So, Vish, THANK-YOU FOR EVERYTHING!!! I > > HAVE NO COMPLAINT WHATSOEVER!!!!! > > Love, > > Leela > > > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste: Lately I have been watching myself judge others. I cannot > > > seem to accept folks as they are. Today, as I witnessed > > the " judgment > > > " thought arise and begin to capture my attention, I had the > > presence > > > of mind to substitute a mantra is place of the thought. > > > The mantra really helped to dissipate the negative energy and gently > > > carried my attention away from the thought. > > > Maa tells us that we are not our thoughts, and we should just tell > > > them to " go away " , but I do not have that kind of strength. > > > I know so well that judgment is harmful on every level of life, and > > I > > > truly wish to stop this behavior. > > > How do others deal with these issues? I will ask Swami for advice > > too > > > and post his reply. > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Nameste Vishweshwar, Thanks for your reply. I think what I am trying to communicate is when an individual, whom has trouble speaking what it is they are feeling and thinking, suddenly finds their voice and stregth in their voice to speak up. There are many expamples of this, but mostly I am thinking of this in terms of when someone usually oppressed says "hey, I don't like what you are doing to me, so stop it." Maybe this is different than judgement and acceptance alltogether. I think I may have been a little confused and trying to hard to understand. Thanks for your help and for being a sounding board so I can get more clear. Can you tell me how to go about finding post #25366, by Jennifer? Do I go to www.shreemaa.org web site? When I use your mode #1 of love and compassion, at least that's what I think I am doing, the individual complaining often uses that as an ok to complain more and escalate the judgement. Perhaps I am using too much empathy and feeding the negative fire. I will meditate more on this. Thank you for your suggestions. Happy Winter Holidays to all! Liz. inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Liz: thanks so much for joining into this discussion. Some great answers have come from our family. I cannot quite understand what you mean about "finding your voice by complaining", so I cannot address that. Please clarify for me. Regarding dealing with a chronic "judger", I have had experience with that type of behavior. Two types of behavior worked for me: the first was developing an understanding of the person's frame of reference, and once i understood that, I could relate to their behavior with love and acceptance. I had to learn "not to take it personally". Of course, that involves a certain level of non-attachment to my ego. #2: When I am tired or in an "ego based" mode of operation, I did not have that clear and quiet space within to "witness" their judgment and reflect love to them. So, I had only one choice: I had to turn and walk away. Also, please read the post #25366 of Jennifer for some great advice. Jai Maa Jai Swami vishweshwar -- In , Liz Stein <mamao24 wrote: > > Hello All. Nameste. My name is Elizabeth and I am from Athens, GA. I have been quietly watching and reading these posts for a few months now and I feel very moved about the recent discussions in regards to judgement versus acceptance. Any comments or insights would be greatly appreciated. > > How about complaining...can all complaining be classified as a form of judgment and if so, is there ever a need for a person to complain? An example might be in the case of one who has trouble speaking his/her thoughts and feelings and using complaint as a tool in learning to let voice flow. It seems a very fine line, if possible or is it different: finding voice vs. complaining/judging? > > Also, what is the best way to deal with an individual stuck, even addicted to judgment? As I write this, I am remembering a teacher who used to with his own students, say "ah that is your judge. Love your judge and give him compasion until he is quiet". Are there any other suggestions for dealing with others that may not be so aware, especially if they are close freinds or family? > > Thanks for the help and thanks for all the wonderful posts. It's really so nice to know there are places one can go and be more true to self. > > Love and Light, > Liz > > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Leela: What a great message. The Zen Master captured the > essence into that mantra. So perfect. Only one established in Being > could manifest that mantra. A God Realized American woman named > Peace, who walked for many years to and fro across America praying for > Peace, stated much the same. And she lived by that precept, and love > flowed from her as the sweet scent flows from a beautiful flower, and > those who met her were filled with peace. > I love to see how seers of different cultures arrive at the same > conclusion, the universal truths, and pass their realizations onto > those in need. > I pray that we all can realize that sweet state of being where we see > God in All and All in God, then we will truly be living our divine > purpose on this Earth. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > , "deviloka" <deviloka@> wrote: > > > > Beloved Vishweshwar, > > Many people are not even aware of themselves and their attitudes the > > way you are! I see it as a product of much spiritual practice and > > meditation, and purification of the mind, that you can even ask this > > question! I am so thankful that you did as well! I, too, often catch > > myself in judging myself and others or faultfinding, much to my > > dismay. I also try to substitute thoughts with mantra or to remind > > myself that I really don't know anything anyway, so my judgement is > > likely to be in error. This seems to come up again and again at > > deeper levels. I KNOW better, but I catch myself doing it anyway! My > > latest "tactic" has given me interesting results, when I find myself > > judging any person or situation in a negative light, no matter > > whether it is my personal life, or even world events, I repeat the > > mantra of the woman Zen Master Sono, whose only teaching was to give > > out the following mantra to everyone who came to her: "Thank-You for > > everything. I have no complaints whatsoever." > > I never realized how much of my inner time and thought was spent > > inwardly complaining about this or that or the other until I started > > remembering Master Sono's Mantra! > > My most immediate realization was that each judgement comes with a > > complaint and each complaint comes because I am not getting my > > desires met. (Even the desire for world peace!) Master Sono's Mantra > > stops this thinking in it's tracks and reminds me that in Maa > > Consciousness, there is no lack and no wanting, only the fullness of > > perfection in the moment. Then I am able to think and act more in > > accord with my yogic ideals. So, Vish, THANK-YOU FOR EVERYTHING!!! I > > HAVE NO COMPLAINT WHATSOEVER!!!!! > > Love, > > Leela > > > > , "inspectionconnection108" > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste: Lately I have been watching myself judge others. I cannot > > > seem to accept folks as they are. Today, as I witnessed > > the "judgment > > > " thought arise and begin to capture my attention, I had the > > presence > > > of mind to substitute a mantra is place of the thought. > > > The mantra really helped to dissipate the negative energy and gently > > > carried my attention away from the thought. > > > Maa tells us that we are not our thoughts, and we should just tell > > > them to "go away", but I do not have that kind of strength. > > > I know so well that judgment is harmful on every level of life, and > > I > > > truly wish to stop this behavior. > > > How do others deal with these issues? I will ask Swami for advice > > too > > > and post his reply. > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 , Liz Stein <mamao24 wrote: Dear Liz, Namaste Here is the link to that message /message/25366 I am sure Vish will tell you how to get there in an upcoming post. Jai Maa > > Nameste Vishweshwar, > > Thanks for your reply. I think what I am trying to communicate is when an individual, whom has trouble speaking what it is they are feeling and thinking, suddenly finds their voice and stregth in their voice to speak up. There are many expamples of this, but mostly I am thinking of this in terms of when someone usually oppressed says " hey, I don't like what you are doing to me, so stop it. " Maybe this is different than judgement and acceptance alltogether. I think I may have been a little confused and trying to hard to understand. Thanks for your help and for being a sounding board so I can get more clear. > > Can you tell me how to go about finding post #25366, by Jennifer? Do I go to www.shreemaa.org web site? When I use your mode #1 of love and compassion, at least that's what I think I am doing, the individual complaining often uses that as an ok to complain more and escalate the judgement. Perhaps I am using too much empathy and feeding the negative fire. > > I will meditate more on this. Thank you for your suggestions. > > Happy Winter Holidays to all! > Liz. > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Liz: thanks so much for joining into this discussion. Some > great answers have come from our family. I cannot quite understand > what you mean about " finding your voice by complaining " , so I cannot > address that. Please clarify for me. > Regarding dealing with a chronic " judger " , I have had experience with > that type of behavior. Two types of behavior worked for me: the > first was developing an understanding of the person's frame of > reference, and once i understood that, I could relate to their > behavior with love and acceptance. I had to learn " not to take it > personally " . Of course, that involves a certain level of > non-attachment to my ego. > #2: When I am tired or in an " ego based " mode of operation, I did not > have that clear and quiet space within to " witness " their judgment and > reflect love to them. So, I had only one choice: I had to turn and > walk away. > > Also, please read the post #25366 of Jennifer for some great advice. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > -- In , Liz Stein <mamao24@> wrote: > > > > Hello All. Nameste. My name is Elizabeth and I am from Athens, GA. > I have been quietly watching and reading these posts for a few > months now and I feel very moved about the recent discussions in > regards to judgement versus acceptance. Any comments or insights > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > How about complaining...can all complaining be classified as a > form of judgment and if so, is there ever a need for a person to > complain? An example might be in the case of one who has trouble > speaking his/her thoughts and feelings and using complaint as a tool > in learning to let voice flow. It seems a very fine line, if > possible or is it different: finding voice vs. complaining/judging? > > > > Also, what is the best way to deal with an individual stuck, even > addicted to judgment? As I write this, I am remembering a teacher > who used to with his own students, say " ah that is your judge. Love > your judge and give him compasion until he is quiet " . Are there any > other suggestions for dealing with others that may not be so aware, > especially if they are close freinds or family? > > > > Thanks for the help and thanks for all the wonderful posts. It's > really so nice to know there are places one can go and be more true > to self. > > > > Love and Light, > > Liz > > > > > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108@> escreveu: > Namaste Leela: What a great > message. The Zen Master captured the > > essence into that mantra. So perfect. Only one established in Being > > could manifest that mantra. A God Realized American woman named > > Peace, who walked for many years to and fro across America praying for > > Peace, stated much the same. And she lived by that precept, and love > > flowed from her as the sweet scent flows from a beautiful flower, and > > those who met her were filled with peace. > > I love to see how seers of different cultures arrive at the same > > conclusion, the universal truths, and pass their realizations onto > > those in need. > > I pray that we all can realize that sweet state of being where we see > > God in All and All in God, then we will truly be living our divine > > purpose on this Earth. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > , " deviloka " <deviloka@> wrote: > > > > > > Beloved Vishweshwar, > > > Many people are not even aware of themselves and their attitudes > the > > > way you are! I see it as a product of much spiritual practice and > > > meditation, and purification of the mind, that you can even ask > this > > > question! I am so thankful that you did as well! I, too, often > catch > > > myself in judging myself and others or faultfinding, much to my > > > dismay. I also try to substitute thoughts with mantra or to remind > > > myself that I really don't know anything anyway, so my judgement is > > > likely to be in error. This seems to come up again and again at > > > deeper levels. I KNOW better, but I catch myself doing it > anyway! My > > > latest " tactic " has given me interesting results, when I find > myself > > > judging any person or situation in a negative light, no matter > > > whether it is my personal life, or even world events, I repeat the > > > mantra of the woman Zen Master Sono, whose only teaching was to > give > > > out the following mantra to everyone who came to her: " Thank-You > for > > > everything. I have no complaints whatsoever. " > > > I never realized how much of my inner time and thought was spent > > > inwardly complaining about this or that or the other until I > started > > > remembering Master Sono's Mantra! > > > My most immediate realization was that each judgement comes with a > > > complaint and each complaint comes because I am not getting my > > > desires met. (Even the desire for world peace!) Master Sono's > Mantra > > > stops this thinking in it's tracks and reminds me that in Maa > > > Consciousness, there is no lack and no wanting, only the > fullness of > > > perfection in the moment. Then I am able to think and act more in > > > accord with my yogic ideals. So, Vish, THANK-YOU FOR > EVERYTHING!!! I > > > HAVE NO COMPLAINT WHATSOEVER!!!!! > > > Love, > > > Leela > > > > > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste: Lately I have been watching myself judge others. I > cannot > > > > seem to accept folks as they are. Today, as I witnessed > > > the " judgment > > > > " thought arise and begin to capture my attention, I had the > > > presence > > > > of mind to substitute a mantra is place of the thought. > > > > The mantra really helped to dissipate the negative energy and > gently > > > > carried my attention away from the thought. > > > > Maa tells us that we are not our thoughts, and we should just tell > > > > them to " go away " , but I do not have that kind of strength. > > > > I know so well that judgment is harmful on every level of > life, and > > > I > > > > truly wish to stop this behavior. > > > > How do others deal with these issues? I will ask Swami for > advice > > > too > > > > and post his reply. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para > armazenamento! > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Liz I figured out how to get to the message While you are looking at a message, on your right hand side there is a link named: Visit Your group. Click on it. A window will open. On your left hand side there is a link: Messages Click on that. On the top you can place your message# into the approriate field and click go. Voila. Jai Maa > > Nameste Vishweshwar, > > Thanks for your reply. I think what I am trying to communicate is when an individual, whom has trouble speaking what it is they are feeling and thinking, suddenly finds their voice and stregth in their voice to speak up. There are many expamples of this, but mostly I am thinking of this in terms of when someone usually oppressed says " hey, I don't like what you are doing to me, so stop it. " Maybe this is different than judgement and acceptance alltogether. I think I may have been a little confused and trying to hard to understand. Thanks for your help and for being a sounding board so I can get more clear. > > Can you tell me how to go about finding post #25366, by Jennifer? Do I go to www.shreemaa.org web site? When I use your mode #1 of love and compassion, at least that's what I think I am doing, the individual complaining often uses that as an ok to complain more and escalate the judgement. Perhaps I am using too much empathy and feeding the negative fire. > > I will meditate more on this. Thank you for your suggestions. > > Happy Winter Holidays to all! > Liz. > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Liz: thanks so much for joining into this discussion. Some > great answers have come from our family. I cannot quite understand > what you mean about " finding your voice by complaining " , so I cannot > address that. Please clarify for me. > Regarding dealing with a chronic " judger " , I have had experience with > that type of behavior. Two types of behavior worked for me: the > first was developing an understanding of the person's frame of > reference, and once i understood that, I could relate to their > behavior with love and acceptance. I had to learn " not to take it > personally " . Of course, that involves a certain level of > non-attachment to my ego. > #2: When I am tired or in an " ego based " mode of operation, I did not > have that clear and quiet space within to " witness " their judgment and > reflect love to them. So, I had only one choice: I had to turn and > walk away. > > Also, please read the post #25366 of Jennifer for some great advice. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > -- In , Liz Stein <mamao24@> wrote: > > > > Hello All. Nameste. My name is Elizabeth and I am from Athens, GA. > I have been quietly watching and reading these posts for a few > months now and I feel very moved about the recent discussions in > regards to judgement versus acceptance. Any comments or insights > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > How about complaining...can all complaining be classified as a > form of judgment and if so, is there ever a need for a person to > complain? An example might be in the case of one who has trouble > speaking his/her thoughts and feelings and using complaint as a tool > in learning to let voice flow. It seems a very fine line, if > possible or is it different: finding voice vs. complaining/judging? > > > > Also, what is the best way to deal with an individual stuck, even > addicted to judgment? As I write this, I am remembering a teacher > who used to with his own students, say " ah that is your judge. Love > your judge and give him compasion until he is quiet " . Are there any > other suggestions for dealing with others that may not be so aware, > especially if they are close freinds or family? > > > > Thanks for the help and thanks for all the wonderful posts. It's > really so nice to know there are places one can go and be more true > to self. > > > > Love and Light, > > Liz > > > > > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108@> escreveu: > Namaste Leela: What a great > message. The Zen Master captured the > > essence into that mantra. So perfect. Only one established in Being > > could manifest that mantra. A God Realized American woman named > > Peace, who walked for many years to and fro across America praying for > > Peace, stated much the same. And she lived by that precept, and love > > flowed from her as the sweet scent flows from a beautiful flower, and > > those who met her were filled with peace. > > I love to see how seers of different cultures arrive at the same > > conclusion, the universal truths, and pass their realizations onto > > those in need. > > I pray that we all can realize that sweet state of being where we see > > God in All and All in God, then we will truly be living our divine > > purpose on this Earth. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > , " deviloka " <deviloka@> wrote: > > > > > > Beloved Vishweshwar, > > > Many people are not even aware of themselves and their attitudes > the > > > way you are! I see it as a product of much spiritual practice and > > > meditation, and purification of the mind, that you can even ask > this > > > question! I am so thankful that you did as well! I, too, often > catch > > > myself in judging myself and others or faultfinding, much to my > > > dismay. I also try to substitute thoughts with mantra or to remind > > > myself that I really don't know anything anyway, so my judgement is > > > likely to be in error. This seems to come up again and again at > > > deeper levels. I KNOW better, but I catch myself doing it > anyway! My > > > latest " tactic " has given me interesting results, when I find > myself > > > judging any person or situation in a negative light, no matter > > > whether it is my personal life, or even world events, I repeat the > > > mantra of the woman Zen Master Sono, whose only teaching was to > give > > > out the following mantra to everyone who came to her: " Thank-You > for > > > everything. I have no complaints whatsoever. " > > > I never realized how much of my inner time and thought was spent > > > inwardly complaining about this or that or the other until I > started > > > remembering Master Sono's Mantra! > > > My most immediate realization was that each judgement comes with a > > > complaint and each complaint comes because I am not getting my > > > desires met. (Even the desire for world peace!) Master Sono's > Mantra > > > stops this thinking in it's tracks and reminds me that in Maa > > > Consciousness, there is no lack and no wanting, only the > fullness of > > > perfection in the moment. Then I am able to think and act more in > > > accord with my yogic ideals. So, Vish, THANK-YOU FOR > EVERYTHING!!! I > > > HAVE NO COMPLAINT WHATSOEVER!!!!! > > > Love, > > > Leela > > > > > > , " inspectionconnection108 " > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste: Lately I have been watching myself judge others. I > cannot > > > > seem to accept folks as they are. Today, as I witnessed > > > the " judgment > > > > " thought arise and begin to capture my attention, I had the > > > presence > > > > of mind to substitute a mantra is place of the thought. > > > > The mantra really helped to dissipate the negative energy and > gently > > > > carried my attention away from the thought. > > > > Maa tells us that we are not our thoughts, and we should just tell > > > > them to " go away " , but I do not have that kind of strength. > > > > I know so well that judgment is harmful on every level of > life, and > > > I > > > > truly wish to stop this behavior. > > > > How do others deal with these issues? I will ask Swami for > advice > > > too > > > > and post his reply. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para > armazenamento! > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Dear Liz: Hello, this is Jennifer! Nice to meet you. Like you I read along silently for quite a while before 'finding my voice' in this community! : ) I found your question about finding voice and judging/complaining to be an interesting one, and it caused me to reflect back on my own experiences. I certainly have done my share of judging and complaining on this journey towards wholeness, and some of that was indeed in order to find my voice. Especially where I have suffered much. There have been many teachers, counselors, friends and helpers who have been the compassionate and loving ear to my more negative frames of mind, who have helped me to arrive in the place I am today. Today, for me the question being explored in this conversation is when the mind just judges for the sake of judging - for the sake of separating me from the perfection of Divine Mother. Or complains for the sake of complaining, preventing me from seeing the peace and beauty in every moment. Regarding the 'how to deal with a chronically judgmental person'...question, I have a hard time with that too. Sometimes when I'm in situations like that I just pray, 'Divine Mother, I don't know what to do. Please use my relationship with this person to love them and care for them according to their highest good and your perfect wisdom. Please guide me in every way.' I've also found it to be helpful at times to ask that person, 'how can I best help you with this?' But then, their needs and your needs might be different, depending on what your spiritual goals and theirs are. May you find clarity in resolving this in a way that brings you closer to who you truly want to be. You can find the prior post that Vishweshwar referred to just by referring to the little numbers on the left side of the posts on this group site and scrolling back to that number. I hope it's helpful! Peace be with you, Jennifer , Liz Stein <mamao24 wrote: > > Nameste Vishweshwar, > > Thanks for your reply. I think what I am trying to communicate is when an individual, whom has trouble speaking what it is they are feeling and thinking, suddenly finds their voice and stregth in their voice to speak up. There are many expamples of this, but mostly I am thinking of this in terms of when someone usually oppressed says " hey, I don't like what you are doing to me, so stop it. " Maybe this is different than judgement and acceptance alltogether. I think I may have been a little confused and trying to hard to understand. Thanks for your help and for being a sounding board so I can get more clear. > > Can you tell me how to go about finding post #25366, by Jennifer? Do I go to www.shreemaa.org web site? When I use your mode #1 of love and compassion, at least that's what I think I am doing, the individual complaining often uses that as an ok to complain more and escalate the judgement. Perhaps I am using too much empathy and feeding the negative fire. > > I will meditate more on this. Thank you for your suggestions. > > Happy Winter Holidays to all! > Liz. > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Liz: thanks so much for joining into this discussion. Some > great answers have come from our family. I cannot quite understand > what you mean about " finding your voice by complaining " , so I cannot > address that. Please clarify for me. > Regarding dealing with a chronic " judger " , I have had experience with > that type of behavior. Two types of behavior worked for me: the > first was developing an understanding of the person's frame of > reference, and once i understood that, I could relate to their > behavior with love and acceptance. I had to learn " not to take it > personally " . Of course, that involves a certain level of > non-attachment to my ego. > #2: When I am tired or in an " ego based " mode of operation, I did not > have that clear and quiet space within to " witness " their judgment and > reflect love to them. So, I had only one choice: I had to turn and > walk away. > > Also, please read the post #25366 of Jennifer for some great advice. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > -- In , Liz Stein <mamao24@> wrote: > > > > Hello All. Nameste. My name is Elizabeth and I am from Athens, GA. > I have been quietly watching and reading these posts for a few > months now and I feel very moved about the recent discussions in > regards to judgement versus acceptance. Any comments or insights > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > How about complaining...can all complaining be classified as a > form of judgment and if so, is there ever a need for a person to > complain? An example might be in the case of one who has trouble > speaking his/her thoughts and feelings and using complaint as a tool > in learning to let voice flow. It seems a very fine line, if > possible or is it different: finding voice vs. complaining/judging? > > > > Also, what is the best way to deal with an individual stuck, even > addicted to judgment? As I write this, I am remembering a teacher > who used to with his own students, say " ah that is your judge. Love > your judge and give him compasion until he is quiet " . Are there any > other suggestions for dealing with others that may not be so aware, > especially if they are close freinds or family? > > > > Thanks for the help and thanks for all the wonderful posts. It's > really so nice to know there are places one can go and be more true > to self. > > > > Love and Light, > > Liz > > > > > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108@> escreveu: > Namaste Leela: What a great > message. The Zen Master captured the > > essence into that mantra. So perfect. Only one established in Being > > could manifest that mantra. A God Realized American woman named > > Peace, who walked for many years to and fro across America praying for > > Peace, stated much the same. And she lived by that precept, and love > > flowed from her as the sweet scent flows from a beautiful flower, and > > those who met her were filled with peace. > > I love to see how seers of different cultures arrive at the same > > conclusion, the universal truths, and pass their realizations onto > > those in need. > > I pray that we all can realize that sweet state of being where we see > > God in All and All in God, then we will truly be living our divine > > purpose on this Earth. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > , " deviloka " <deviloka@> wrote: > > > > > > Beloved Vishweshwar, > > > Many people are not even aware of themselves and their attitudes > the > > > way you are! I see it as a product of much spiritual practice and > > > meditation, and purification of the mind, that you can even ask > this > > > question! I am so thankful that you did as well! I, too, often > catch > > > myself in judging myself and others or faultfinding, much to my > > > dismay. I also try to substitute thoughts with mantra or to remind > > > myself that I really don't know anything anyway, so my judgement is > > > likely to be in error. This seems to come up again and again at > > > deeper levels. I KNOW better, but I catch myself doing it > anyway! My > > > latest " tactic " has given me interesting results, when I find > myself > > > judging any person or situation in a negative light, no matter > > > whether it is my personal life, or even world events, I repeat the > > > mantra of the woman Zen Master Sono, whose only teaching was to > give > > > out the following mantra to everyone who came to her: " Thank-You > for > > > everything. I have no complaints whatsoever. " > > > I never realized how much of my inner time and thought was spent > > > inwardly complaining about this or that or the other until I > started > > > remembering Master Sono's Mantra! > > > My most immediate realization was that each judgement comes with a > > > complaint and each complaint comes because I am not getting my > > > desires met. (Even the desire for world peace!) Master Sono's > Mantra > > > stops this thinking in it's tracks and reminds me that in Maa > > > Consciousness, there is no lack and no wanting, only the > fullness of > > > perfection in the moment. Then I am able to think and act more in > > > accord with my yogic ideals. So, Vish, THANK-YOU FOR > EVERYTHING!!! I > > > HAVE NO COMPLAINT WHATSOEVER!!!!! > > > Love, > > > Leela > > > > > > --- In , " inspectionconnection108 " > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste: Lately I have been watching myself judge others. I > cannot > > > > seem to accept folks as they are. Today, as I witnessed > > > the " judgment > > > > " thought arise and begin to capture my attention, I had the > > > presence > > > > of mind to substitute a mantra is place of the thought. > > > > The mantra really helped to dissipate the negative energy and > gently > > > > carried my attention away from the thought. > > > > Maa tells us that we are not our thoughts, and we should just tell > > > > them to " go away " , but I do not have that kind of strength. > > > > I know so well that judgment is harmful on every level of > life, and > > > I > > > > truly wish to stop this behavior. > > > > How do others deal with these issues? I will ask Swami for > advice > > > too > > > > and post his reply. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para > armazenamento! > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Thank you Vishweshawar, Parvati, and Jennifer for the help! I now know how to find older posts. Also thank you so much for the addvice, everyone! I really felt touched by giving the situation to Maa and Divine will when feeling overwelmed. It is so wonderful to feel everyone's support. Thank you. It is a pleasure to meet the Devi Mandir community too! Can't wait to put the lessons in practice. Love to all, Liz jrholm1007 <jrholm1007 escreveu: Dear Liz: Hello, this is Jennifer! Nice to meet you. Like you I read along silently for quite a while before 'finding my voice' in this community! : ) I found your question about finding voice and judging/complaining to be an interesting one, and it caused me to reflect back on my own experiences. I certainly have done my share of judging and complaining on this journey towards wholeness, and some of that was indeed in order to find my voice. Especially where I have suffered much. There have been many teachers, counselors, friends and helpers who have been the compassionate and loving ear to my more negative frames of mind, who have helped me to arrive in the place I am today. Today, for me the question being explored in this conversation is when the mind just judges for the sake of judging - for the sake of separating me from the perfection of Divine Mother. Or complains for the sake of complaining, preventing me from seeing the peace and beauty in every moment. Regarding the 'how to deal with a chronically judgmental person'...question, I have a hard time with that too. Sometimes when I'm in situations like that I just pray, 'Divine Mother, I don't know what to do. Please use my relationship with this person to love them and care for them according to their highest good and your perfect wisdom. Please guide me in every way.' I've also found it to be helpful at times to ask that person, 'how can I best help you with this?' But then, their needs and your needs might be different, depending on what your spiritual goals and theirs are. May you find clarity in resolving this in a way that brings you closer to who you truly want to be. You can find the prior post that Vishweshwar referred to just by referring to the little numbers on the left side of the posts on this group site and scrolling back to that number. I hope it's helpful! Peace be with you, Jennifer , Liz Stein <mamao24 wrote: > > Nameste Vishweshwar, > > Thanks for your reply. I think what I am trying to communicate is when an individual, whom has trouble speaking what it is they are feeling and thinking, suddenly finds their voice and stregth in their voice to speak up. There are many expamples of this, but mostly I am thinking of this in terms of when someone usually oppressed says "hey, I don't like what you are doing to me, so stop it." Maybe this is different than judgement and acceptance alltogether. I think I may have been a little confused and trying to hard to understand. Thanks for your help and for being a sounding board so I can get more clear. > > Can you tell me how to go about finding post #25366, by Jennifer? Do I go to www.shreemaa.org web site? When I use your mode #1 of love and compassion, at least that's what I think I am doing, the individual complaining often uses that as an ok to complain more and escalate the judgement. Perhaps I am using too much empathy and feeding the negative fire. > > I will meditate more on this. Thank you for your suggestions. > > Happy Winter Holidays to all! > Liz. > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 escreveu: Namaste Liz: thanks so much for joining into this discussion. Some > great answers have come from our family. I cannot quite understand > what you mean about "finding your voice by complaining", so I cannot > address that. Please clarify for me. > Regarding dealing with a chronic "judger", I have had experience with > that type of behavior. Two types of behavior worked for me: the > first was developing an understanding of the person's frame of > reference, and once i understood that, I could relate to their > behavior with love and acceptance. I had to learn "not to take it > personally". Of course, that involves a certain level of > non-attachment to my ego. > #2: When I am tired or in an "ego based" mode of operation, I did not > have that clear and quiet space within to "witness" their judgment and > reflect love to them. So, I had only one choice: I had to turn and > walk away. > > Also, please read the post #25366 of Jennifer for some great advice. > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > -- In , Liz Stein <mamao24@> wrote: > > > > Hello All. Nameste. My name is Elizabeth and I am from Athens, GA. > I have been quietly watching and reading these posts for a few > months now and I feel very moved about the recent discussions in > regards to judgement versus acceptance. Any comments or insights > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > How about complaining...can all complaining be classified as a > form of judgment and if so, is there ever a need for a person to > complain? An example might be in the case of one who has trouble > speaking his/her thoughts and feelings and using complaint as a tool > in learning to let voice flow. It seems a very fine line, if > possible or is it different: finding voice vs. complaining/judging? > > > > Also, what is the best way to deal with an individual stuck, even > addicted to judgment? As I write this, I am remembering a teacher > who used to with his own students, say "ah that is your judge. Love > your judge and give him compasion until he is quiet". Are there any > other suggestions for dealing with others that may not be so aware, > especially if they are close freinds or family? > > > > Thanks for the help and thanks for all the wonderful posts. It's > really so nice to know there are places one can go and be more true > to self. > > > > Love and Light, > > Liz > > > > > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108@> escreveu: > Namaste Leela: What a great > message. The Zen Master captured the > > essence into that mantra. So perfect. Only one established in Being > > could manifest that mantra. A God Realized American woman named > > Peace, who walked for many years to and fro across America praying for > > Peace, stated much the same. And she lived by that precept, and love > > flowed from her as the sweet scent flows from a beautiful flower, and > > those who met her were filled with peace. > > I love to see how seers of different cultures arrive at the same > > conclusion, the universal truths, and pass their realizations onto > > those in need. > > I pray that we all can realize that sweet state of being where we see > > God in All and All in God, then we will truly be living our divine > > purpose on this Earth. > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > vishweshwar > > > > , "deviloka" <deviloka@> wrote: > > > > > > Beloved Vishweshwar, > > > Many people are not even aware of themselves and their attitudes > the > > > way you are! I see it as a product of much spiritual practice and > > > meditation, and purification of the mind, that you can even ask > this > > > question! I am so thankful that you did as well! I, too, often > catch > > > myself in judging myself and others or faultfinding, much to my > > > dismay. I also try to substitute thoughts with mantra or to remind > > > myself that I really don't know anything anyway, so my judgement is > > > likely to be in error. This seems to come up again and again at > > > deeper levels. I KNOW better, but I catch myself doing it > anyway! My > > > latest "tactic" has given me interesting results, when I find > myself > > > judging any person or situation in a negative light, no matter > > > whether it is my personal life, or even world events, I repeat the > > > mantra of the woman Zen Master Sono, whose only teaching was to > give > > > out the following mantra to everyone who came to her: "Thank-You > for > > > everything. I have no complaints whatsoever." > > > I never realized how much of my inner time and thought was spent > > > inwardly complaining about this or that or the other until I > started > > > remembering Master Sono's Mantra! > > > My most immediate realization was that each judgement comes with a > > > complaint and each complaint comes because I am not getting my > > > desires met. (Even the desire for world peace!) Master Sono's > Mantra > > > stops this thinking in it's tracks and reminds me that in Maa > > > Consciousness, there is no lack and no wanting, only the > fullness of > > > perfection in the moment. Then I am able to think and act more in > > > accord with my yogic ideals. So, Vish, THANK-YOU FOR > EVERYTHING!!! I > > > HAVE NO COMPLAINT WHATSOEVER!!!!! > > > Love, > > > Leela > > > > > > , "inspectionconnection108" > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste: Lately I have been watching myself judge others. I > cannot > > > > seem to accept folks as they are. Today, as I witnessed > > > the "judgment > > > > " thought arise and begin to capture my attention, I had the > > > presence > > > > of mind to substitute a mantra is place of the thought. > > > > The mantra really helped to dissipate the negative energy and > gently > > > > carried my attention away from the thought. > > > > Maa tells us that we are not our thoughts, and we should just tell > > > > them to "go away", but I do not have that kind of strength. > > > > I know so well that judgment is harmful on every level of > life, and > > > I > > > > truly wish to stop this behavior. > > > > How do others deal with these issues? I will ask Swami for > advice > > > too > > > > and post his reply. > > > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami > > > > > > > > vishweshwar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para > armazenamento! > > > > > > > > > > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! > Abra sua conta no Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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