Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Namaste Nitin: As I read your comments, I struggle to understand the exact nature of your question. If you could distill and clarify your questions I could forward them to Swami for his consideration. Since I do not know the ancient stories you refer to, I cannot grasp the central point of your question. All I know of Hinduism, I have learned directly from Maa and Swami during the 10 years I have known them. As an American, raised in the Christian religion, my knowledge of Hinduism is limited. So, in order to communicate clearly with you, and our worldwide family, I ask for your support and patience as I learn more of this wonderful and ancient rich tradition. I look forward to your comments and questions as they help all of us to deepen our understanding and love of God. Jai Maa Jai Swami vishweshwar > Jai Ma Durge, > > I do not intend to question the scripture but the contents, examples and the advices provided. If I read it and interpret it, say for eg the ajamil's story where just by reciting his child's name ( narayan) without intention of remembering God, he was considered as devotee of Vishnu. So, where is the devotion ? and why he was considered devotee even when he spent his whole life in wrong ways including cheating others. Here, it seems to contradict the law of " what you do to others, you will have to face the same " . If just by reciting the name without intention of remembering God by Heart, one start getting benefit of being considered devotee then where is the result of harming others simultaneously? If I keep harming others and keep chanting 108 times ( Narayan) at the end of day, It should vanish all my sins and give me " Baikunth " . Then what is the difference between the pios devotion of Sri Hanuman towards Sri Ram and me or Ajamil. > > Nevertheless, I firmly believe in the concept of " devotion " and bhakti by pure heart But I do not believe in the concept of " bhakti by chance/ recitation of name " without any intention of Bhakti and goodness to others.. I do not have any contradictions to existence or laws of Supreme Power: Krishna or Devi Jagdamba. Scriptures also express the necessity of devotion but at the same time it also mentions the benefit of " bhakti by chance " which raises doubts and concerns to adopt it and believe it 100% > > Regards > Nitin > > > pratapaprasad <pratapaprasad wrote: Dear Nitin, > I too had the same question during my sadhana days. It was > nicely answered by Sri Ramakrishna in the Gospel. He said that " A > blind man thought that he was blind because of his sins and that he > can atone his sins by taking a bath in Ganga as written in the > scriptures. When he took a dip in the holy ganges, Thakur said that > his sins were taken off from but were resting on a tree on the bank > of the river. As soon as he came up from the water, the sins fell > back on him from the tree " . In the same way, scriptures always say > the right thing. The problem is that we don't do it with > conviction. We feel that we're reciting the names of Gods with > faith and conviction. Do we have the same faith as Lord Hanuman who > crossed the ocean with the name of Lord Rama on his lips? Does our > faith remain unshaken as Sri Ramakrishna even when our body is > diseased? I feel that I am no where closer to these examples. Then > I thought I should work on improving my faith in mother's name > rather than question the scriptures. > > Pranams, > Prasad > , Nitin Gupta <ntngpt@> wrote: > > > > Jai Durge, > > > > Thanks for the valuable inputs and the precious text !. > > > > Well, I too believe and want to believe that the prescribed > way / path is one of such method. However, there are such many ways > mentioned in the scriptures which are said to be for the same > purpose. Many scriptures and methodologies / mythologies too > indicate at many places that mere utterance of the holy names such > as Ganga, Ram, Jagdamba , Shiva, etc even by chance destroys the > sins ( here " by chance " means inclusion or exclusion of component of > devotion) . Listening to Srimad Bhagvat, Ramayan etc are also such > scriptures which includes such indications (recitation even by > chance). So, my confusion is that if I believe that what is written > in these scriptures is TRUE, then why many such Billion of people in > the World who chant these names does not gain salvation or end of > sufferings. Because as per logic, there sins should be destroyed. > There are frequent organization of such ceremonies where thousands > of people participate and lakhs of people watch through televisions. > > So which part of scriptures is True ? Or if it is not true than > what is the Truth. > > > > Regards > > > > Nitin Gupta > > > > > > > > Pranjal Johry <pranjal_johry@> wrote: Nitin Gupta > > There are various methods prescribed in the scriptures to atone > for various kinds of sins commited in past & present lives > (knowingly or unknowingly). But all these methods of atonement like > sitting in hot sun surrounded by fire or standing submerged in water > to the neck in ice cold winters etc.are like bathing of an elephant. > The elephant first takes bath in the river- gets cleaned and when it > comes out it pours over himself the dust on the ground. Thus all > these methods of atonement are simply a waste of time as they do not > kill the desire in heart in heart to commit sins. > > However one who has surrendered to Hari and chants his holy names > ( even unknowingly) is relieved of all kind of sins (even of killing > a cow or vaishnava). So I advice you to chant the Mahamantra HARE > KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE/ HARE RAMA HARE RAMA > RAMA RAMA HARE HARE. > > You must also abide by the rule of No Meat Eating, No > Intoxication, No Gambling and No Illicit Sex otherwise the mantra > will lose its efficacy. You should chant the mantra in humble state > of mind thinking yourself lower than a straw in street and more > tolerant than a tree otherwise pure love of Krishna will not frutify > in your heart. > > I'm also sending you a small book called A SECOND CHANCE. This > book describes the power of the Holy Name. This is a true story from > the greatest scripture on earth THE SRIMAD BHAGVATAM. > > HARE HRISHNA > > Pranjal Johry > > > > > > > > > > Nik <ntngpt@> > > > > Monday, December 17, 2007 12:01:12 PM > > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Method to remove sins > > > > Jai Ma Durge, > > > > Dear all, > > > > Is there a assured method /mantras through which one can remove > the > > sins committed by him during his present / previous life(s).I > think > > that as this is the root of all problems, it is more appropriate > to > > try to remove the sins committed rather than demanding the things > > which our fate otherwise does not permit (Of course due to our own > > Karmas). The various worships of various Devas/deities are > although > > targeted towards at most granting the purity of mind so that we do > > not commit mistakes from now on, however what ( sin) is already > > committed still remains in our accounts and will surely show its > > effect at its decided stage. > > > > Regards > > Nitin Gupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Namaste Sri Vishweswar, Evidently this resembles that I am so confused that I am not even able to interpret my query in a clear manner, but I think I shall not give up so early for understanding one of my fundamental doubt towards path of spirituality, hence I shall again try to reiterate my concern/query. I hope the group members will bear with me and the long paras below. I came across a couple of texts in Hindu Mythology/ Scriptures, namely, Devi Puran, Srimad Bhagwatam where it mentions ( or seek to interpret) that reciting the name of God ( the cocerned deity according to that scripture) even "by chance" opens the doors of fortunes, end of miseries and salvation. Specifically, in Srimad Bhagwatam ( one of the most Prominent and sacred for Hindus): Sixth Canto/ Chapter 6, It gives example of a person ( Brahmin) named Ajamil who was engaged in all kinds of illegal/immoral activities. However, he has a son named "Narayan". So while in course of his life he used to recite his name ( child's name) but without any intention of remembering God ( i.e by Chance). At the time of death, while he was taken away by Yamdutas ( messengers of god of death), they ( yamdutas) were intervened by the Vishnu Dutas for taking them. Reason being, he ( Ajamil) being Devotee of Vishnu. Their Logic was that he kept reciting the name of "Narayan" which made him being considered the same. Now, my understanding and belief is that Bhakti requires devotion and piousness ( at least in a long run to be considered as a devotee) which is very hard and difficult to attain and maintain. So, how come the person who is not even intended to remember God, kept doing immoral acts throughout life can be considered devotee of Vishnu ( the supreme power). Here, where is the law of Karma's implementation ? Why shall he not suffer for the mischiefs conducted by him in his lifetime. The sins can be forgiven ( logically) if somebody engages himself in Bhakti and also discontinuing the bad practices. Then how / why shall a person not even intending to remember God can be be considered a devotee. Now, one can question, that if I understand this, then what is my question and doubt? My question is that if I consider these stories False/illogical then why shall I not consider the whole scripture's contents/concepts illogical. If I consider this as True then it gives the doubts ( as raised above). I am not able to adopt it as 100% Truth without beleving it 100% I hope I was better this time :-) RegardsNitin inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 wrote: Namaste Nitin: As I read your comments, I struggle to understand theexact nature of your question. If you could distill and clarify yourquestions I could forward them to Swami for his consideration. SinceI do not know the ancient stories you refer to, I cannot grasp thecentral point of your question. All I know of Hinduism, I have learned directly from Maa and Swamiduring the 10 years I have known them. As an American, raised in theChristian religion, my knowledge of Hinduism is limited. So, in orderto communicate clearly with you, and our worldwide family, I ask foryour support and patience as I learn more of this wonderful andancient rich tradition. I look forward to your comments and questions as they help all of usto deepen our understanding and love of God. Jai Maa Jai Swamivishweshwar> Jai Ma Durge,> > I do not intend to question the scripture but the contents,examples and the advices provided. If I read it and interpret it, sayfor eg the ajamil's story where just by reciting his child's name (narayan) without intention of remembering God, he was considered asdevotee of Vishnu. So, where is the devotion ? and why he wasconsidered devotee even when he spent his whole life in wrong waysincluding cheating others. Here, it seems to contradict the law of "what you do to others, you will have to face the same". If just byreciting the name without intention of remembering God by Heart, onestart getting benefit of being considered devotee then where is theresult of harming others simultaneously? If I keep harming others andkeep chanting 108 times ( Narayan) at the end of day, It should vanishall my sins and give me "Baikunth". Then what is the differencebetween the pios devotion of Sri Hanuman towards Sri Ram and me or Ajamil.> > Nevertheless, I firmly believe in the concept of "devotion" andbhakti by pure heart But I do not believe in the concept of "bhakti bychance/ recitation of name" without any intention of Bhakti andgoodness to others.. I do not have any contradictions to existence orlaws of Supreme Power: Krishna or Devi Jagdamba. Scriptures alsoexpress the necessity of devotion but at the same time it alsomentions the benefit of "bhakti by chance" which raises doubts andconcerns to adopt it and believe it 100%> > Regards> Nitin> > > pratapaprasad <pratapaprasad wrote: Dear Nitin,> I too had the same question during my sadhana days. It was > nicely answered by Sri Ramakrishna in the Gospel. He said that "A > blind man thought that he was blind because of his sins and that he > can atone his sins by taking a bath in Ganga as written in the > scriptures. When he took a dip in the holy ganges, Thakur said that > his sins were taken off from but were resting on a tree on the bank > of the river. As soon as he came up from the water, the sins fell > back on him from the tree". In the same way, scriptures always say > the right thing. The problem is that we don't do it with > conviction. We feel that we're reciting the names of Gods with > faith and conviction. Do we have the same faith as Lord Hanuman who > crossed the ocean with the name of Lord Rama on his lips? Does our > faith remain unshaken as Sri Ramakrishna even when our body is > diseased? I feel that I am no where closer to these examples. Then > I thought I should work on improving my faith in mother's name > rather than question the scriptures.> > Pranams,> Prasad> , Nitin Gupta <ntngpt@> wrote:> >> > Jai Durge,> > > > Thanks for the valuable inputs and the precious text !. > > > > Well, I too believe and want to believe that the prescribed > way / path is one of such method. However, there are such many ways > mentioned in the scriptures which are said to be for the same > purpose. Many scriptures and methodologies / mythologies too > indicate at many places that mere utterance of the holy names such > as Ganga, Ram, Jagdamba , Shiva, etc even by chance destroys the > sins ( here "by chance" means inclusion or exclusion of component of > devotion) . Listening to Srimad Bhagvat, Ramayan etc are also such > scriptures which includes such indications (recitation even by > chance). So, my confusion is that if I believe that what is written > in these scriptures is TRUE, then why many such Billion of people in > the World who chant these names does not gain salvation or end of > sufferings. Because as per logic, there sins should be destroyed. > There are frequent organization of such ceremonies where thousands > of people participate and lakhs of people watch through televisions.> > So which part of scriptures is True ? Or if it is not true than > what is the Truth. > > > > Regards> > > > Nitin Gupta> > > > > > > > Pranjal Johry <pranjal_johry@> wrote: Nitin Gupta> > There are various methods prescribed in the scriptures to atone > for various kinds of sins commited in past & present lives > (knowingly or unknowingly). But all these methods of atonement like > sitting in hot sun surrounded by fire or standing submerged in water > to the neck in ice cold winters etc.are like bathing of an elephant. > The elephant first takes bath in the river- gets cleaned and when it > comes out it pours over himself the dust on the ground. Thus all > these methods of atonement are simply a waste of time as they do not > kill the desire in heart in heart to commit sins. > > However one who has surrendered to Hari and chants his holy names > ( even unknowingly) is relieved of all kind of sins (even of killing > a cow or vaishnava). So I advice you to chant the Mahamantra HARE > KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE/ HARE RAMA HARE RAMA > RAMA RAMA HARE HARE. > > You must also abide by the rule of No Meat Eating, No > Intoxication, No Gambling and No Illicit Sex otherwise the mantra > will lose its efficacy. You should chant the mantra in humble state > of mind thinking yourself lower than a straw in street and more > tolerant than a tree otherwise pure love of Krishna will not frutify > in your heart. > > I'm also sending you a small book called A SECOND CHANCE. This > book describes the power of the Holy Name. This is a true story from > the greatest scripture on earth THE SRIMAD BHAGVATAM.> > HARE HRISHNA> > Pranjal Johry> > > > > > > > > > Nik <ntngpt@>> > > > Monday, December 17, 2007 12:01:12 PM> > [www.ShreeMaa.org] Method to remove sins> > > > Jai Ma Durge,> > > > Dear all,> > > > Is there a assured method /mantras through which one can remove > the > > sins committed by him during his present / previous life(s).I > think > > that as this is the root of all problems, it is more appropriate > to > > try to remove the sins committed rather than demanding the things > > which our fate otherwise does not permit (Of course due to our own > > Karmas). The various worships of various Devas/deities are > although > > targeted towards at most granting the purity of mind so that we do > > not commit mistakes from now on, however what ( sin) is already > > committed still remains in our accounts and will surely show its > > effect at its decided stage. > > > > Regards> > Nitin Gupta> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.> > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.> >> > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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