Guest guest Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Namaste Nitin and all: In the Kasyapa sutras, within the book THE GURU AND THE GODDESS, Page, 101, Swami describes the 3 forms of samadhi. The 3 forms are progressive. " First comes the Bhava samadhi, which is an intuition in which 3 exist: I, the subject or meditator, Thou, the meditated upon, and the relationship between the 2. In savikalpa samadhi only 2 exist: I and thou. The relationship is understood, intuited, inexpressible, undefinable. In nirvikalpa samadhi there is only One. This is advaita. The residence of the liberated soul is in advaita. Whenever consciousness becomes absorbed into nirvikalpa samadhi, one becomes a fully liberated soul in perfect union. When consciousness moves out of nirvikalpa samadhi, out of advita again, each of us is in the bonds of action and interaction. Therefore an ego again becomes necessary in order to maintain an individual form and identity. Every individual form has some form of individual identity or ego. Some of the individual egos are divine egos, such as Shree Maa, and some of the egos are less than divine. .....We can't be One so long as we have an idea. That is two, the individual and the idea. " Jai Ma Jai Swami vishweshwar , " Chris " <sadyojataya wrote: > > Hi Nitin, > > There have been some good comments on this thread. The one that stands > out the most to me is (I forget who said it - sorry) that love of God > for love's sake is higher than the desire for moksha. This is so true. > > Someone also mentioned that there is a distinction between kinds of > desires. There are essentially selfish and unselfish desires, and > though the desire for moksha can seem to be a selfish one, I don't > believe that it is. How can the desire to be our truest self, to live > as we were always intended to live, be selfish? > > We cannot live without desire. Life requires that we act, and we > cannot act without desire. Only during worship/meditation/samadhi can > we be without desire entirely, I think. > > Swamiji once told me that samadhi was not a good goal. On further > questioning he explained that it was not the desire for all that > samadhi is that is the problem, but the act of desiring itself, that > becomes an obstacle to its attainment. There is a letting go that is > necessary. You can use the desire for samadhi for motivation, but it > needs to be somewhere in the very back of your mind. If you are always > " looking for it " , you will not find it. > > So in that sense, you are quite correct. If you are constantly saying > " Am I free yet? " , you will not experience that moksha. But if you can > use the desire for that freedom to motivate you, but can let it go > when it is time for worship, it will not be an obstacle. That is my > understanding. > > In samadhi there is only I and Thou, and ultimately only Thou (or I). > Desiring a state of being brings a third object into the mix, and I > and Thou cannot manifest. Loving God for love's sake brings us right > into the proper relationship. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > > , " Nik " <ntngpt@> wrote: > > > > Jai Jagdambe ! > > > > Is aspiring for Moksha is a reflection of desire ? Well, I mean to say > > that if somebdoy is worshipping for the purpose of Moksha ? Will he be > > considered ineligible for moksha since he still has a desire remaining > > i.e of Moksha. What I feel is that for Moksha, the person need to be > > free of desires. > > > > Regards > > > > Nitin > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Namaste All,I am inspired to share this short poem by Sri Swami Satyananda Saraswati of the Bihar School of Yoga. This sounds so much like the worship at Devi Mandir. "With nothing on my body,And with nothing in my hands.Let me roam on the banks of the Ganga,With the name of Shiva on my lipsAnd the thoughts of Devi and Durga in my mind.Let me not even know that I exist:And when I die, I will not know that I am dying." Jai Shree MaaJai Shree SwamijiLove,Sivakumarinspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 wrote: Namaste Nitin and all: In the Kasyapa sutras, within the book THE GURU AND THE GODDESS, Page, 101, Swami describes the 3 forms of samadhi. The 3 forms are progressive. "First comes the Bhava samadhi, which is an intuition in which 3 exist: I, the subject or meditator, Thou, the meditated upon, and the relationship between the 2. In savikalpa samadhi only 2 exist: I and thou. The relationship is understood, intuited, inexpressible, undefinable. In nirvikalpa samadhi there is only One. This is advaita. The residence of the liberated soul is in advaita. Whenever consciousness becomes absorbed into nirvikalpa samadhi, one becomes a fully liberated soul in perfect union. When consciousness moves out of nirvikalpa samadhi, out of advita again, each of us is in the bonds of action and interaction. Therefore an ego again becomes necessary in order to maintain an individual form and identity. Every individual form has some form of individual identity or ego. Some of the individual egos are divine egos, such as Shree Maa, and some of the egos are less than divine. ....We can't be One so long as we have an idea. That is two, the individual and the idea." Jai Ma Jai Swami vishweshwar , "Chris" <sadyojataya wrote: > > Hi Nitin, > > There have been some good comments on this thread. The one that stands > out the most to me is (I forget who said it - sorry) that love of God > for love's sake is higher than the desire for moksha. This is so true. > > Someone also mentioned that there is a distinction between kinds of > desires. There are essentially selfish and unselfish desires, and > though the desire for moksha can seem to be a selfish one, I don't > believe that it is. How can the desire to be our truest self, to live > as we were always intended to live, be selfish? > > We cannot live without desire. Life requires that we act, and we > cannot act without desire. Only during worship/meditation/samadhi can > we be without desire entirely, I think. > > Swamiji once told me that samadhi was not a good goal. On further > questioning he explained that it was not the desire for all that > samadhi is that is the problem, but the act of desiring itself, that > becomes an obstacle to its attainment. There is a letting go that is > necessary. You can use the desire for samadhi for motivation, but it > needs to be somewhere in the very back of your mind. If you are always > "looking for it", you will not find it. > > So in that sense, you are quite correct. If you are constantly saying > "Am I free yet?", you will not experience that moksha. But if you can > use the desire for that freedom to motivate you, but can let it go > when it is time for worship, it will not be an obstacle. That is my > understanding. > > In samadhi there is only I and Thou, and ultimately only Thou (or I). > Desiring a state of being brings a third object into the mix, and I > and Thou cannot manifest. Loving God for love's sake brings us right > into the proper relationship. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > > , "Nik" <ntngpt@> wrote: > > > > Jai Jagdambe ! > > > > Is aspiring for Moksha is a reflection of desire ? Well, I mean to say > > that if somebdoy is worshipping for the purpose of Moksha ? Will he be > > considered ineligible for moksha since he still has a desire remaining > > i.e of Moksha. What I feel is that for Moksha, the person need to be > > free of desires. > > > > Regards > > > > Nitin > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 This is very beautiful and really says it all! For me, I don't care about these things anymore. Samadhi, Moksha, blah, blah blah. I just want to serve my AMMA. I'm happy to come back again and again to do so. Who am I? I know who I am. I am AMMA's. This is the same of course as saying I am MAA's. JAI AMMA! Surya - Siva Kumar Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:24 AM Re: [www.ShreeMaa.org] Desire for Moksha: 3 forms of samadhi Namaste All,I am inspired to share this short poem by Sri Swami Satyananda Saraswati of the Bihar School of Yoga. This sounds so much like the worship at Devi Mandir. "With nothing on my body,And with nothing in my hands.Let me roam on the banks of the Ganga,With the name of Shiva on my lipsAnd the thoughts of Devi and Durga in my mind.Let me not even know that I exist:And when I die, I will not know that I am dying." Jai Shree MaaJai Shree SwamijiLove,Sivakumarinspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 > wrote: Namaste Nitin and all: In the Kasyapa sutras, within the book THEGURU AND THE GODDESS, Page, 101, Swami describes the 3 forms ofsamadhi. The 3 forms are progressive. "First omes the Bhava samadhi, which is an intuition in which 3exist: I, the subject or meditator, Thou, the meditated upon, and therelationship between the 2.In savikalpa samadhi only 2 exist: I and thou. The relationship isunderstood, intuited, inexpressible, undefinable.In nirvikalpa samadhi there is only One. This is advaita.The residence of the liberated soul is in advaita. Wheneverconsciousness becomes absorbed into nirvikalpa samadhi, one becomes afully liberated soul in perfect union. When consciousness moves outof nirvikalpa samadhi, out of advita again, each of us is in the bondsof action and interaction. Therefore an ego again becomes necessaryin order to maintain an individual form and identity. Every individual form has some form of individual identity or ego. Some of the individual egos are divine egos, such as Shree Maa, andsome of the egos are less than divine. ....We can't be One so long as we have an idea. That is two, theindividual and the idea."Jai Ma Jai Swamivishweshwar , "Chris" <sadyojataya wrote:>> Hi Nitin,> > There have been some good comments on this thread. The one that stands> out the most to me is (I forget who said it - sorry) that love of God> for love's sake is higher than the desire for moksha. This is so true.> > Someone also mentioned that there is a distinction between kinds of> desires. There are essentially selfish and unselfish desires, and> though the desire for moksha can seem to be a selfish one, I don't> believe that it is. How can the desire to be our truest self, to live> as we were always intended to live, be selfish?> > We cannot live without desire. Life requires that we act, and we> cannot act without desire. Only during worship/meditation/samadhi can> we be without desire entirely, I think. > > Swamiji once told me that samadhi was not a good goal. On further> questioning he explained that it was not the desire for all that> samadhi is that is the problem, but the act of desiring itself, that> becomes an obstacle to its attainment. There is a letting go that is> necessary. You can use the desire for samadhi for motivation, but it> needs to be somewhere in the very back of your mind. If you are always> "looking for it", you will not find it.> > So in that sense, you are quite correct. If you are constantly saying> "Am I free yet?", you will not experience that moksha. But if you can> use the desire for that freedom to motivate you, but can let it go> when it is time for worship, it will not be an obstacle. That is my> understanding.> > In samadhi there is only I and Thou, and ultimately only Thou (or I).> Desiring a state of being brings a third object into the mix, and I> and Thou cannot manifest. Loving God for love's sake brings us right> into the proper relationship. > > Jai Maa!> Chris> > > > > > , "Nik" <ntngpt@> wrote:> >> > Jai Jagdambe !> > > > Is aspiring for Moksha is a reflection of desire ? Well, I mean tosay > > that if somebdoy is worshipping for the purpose of Moksha ? Willhe be > > considered ineligible for moksha since he still has a desireremaining > > i.e of Moksha. What I feel is that for Moksha, the person need to be > > free of desires.> > > > Regards> > > > Nitin> >> between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release 4/6/2008 11:12 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Hi Sivakumar, It is a beautiful poem. I have read about this state. It is very beautiful and exciting to contemplate. From what I have read I gather that this state is a spiritual stage that one passes through. Once established, one may revisit, but initially, I have the impression that you simply ride the wave wherever it may take you, until one day you look around and find yourself standing on the beach. People in this state are called avadhutas. They are completely absorbed in prakriti, in nature, in Divine Mother. They have become true children of Mother, who is the entirety of their experience. They have no more identity than this. No harm can come to such a one. Finding themselves wrapped in restricting, chafing layers of cloth, they remove their clothes and go naked, wandering the forests and riverbanks completely at home, without chill or the slightest fear. Their Mother, who is all around them, in every perception, in every sensation, takes care of every need. They live on leaves they pick from the branches of trees. They wander absorbed in the bliss of constant communion with Mother in every beautiful form and circumstance they encounter. Then, perhaps days, weeks, or even months later, they come back to " themselves " . Imagine the beauty of this experience. I don't know about you, but I can't wait. It would be interesting to hear from Swamiji about his experiences in this state, but I imagine this is one of those intensely personal experiences one doesn't easily share. Jai Maa! Chris , Siva Kumar <sufi116 wrote: > > Namaste All, > > I am inspired to share this short poem by Sri Swami Satyananda Saraswati of the Bihar School of Yoga. This sounds so much like the worship at Devi Mandir. > " With nothing on my body, > And with nothing in my hands. > Let me roam on the banks of the Ganga, > With the name of Shiva on my lips > And the thoughts of Devi and Durga in my mind. > Let me not even know that I exist: > And when I die, I will not know that I am dying. " > > Jai Shree Maa > Jai Shree Swamiji > > Love, > Sivakumar > > inspectionconnection108 <inspectionconnection108 wrote: Namaste Nitin and all: In the Kasyapa sutras, within the book THE > GURU AND THE GODDESS, Page, 101, Swami describes the 3 forms of > samadhi. The 3 forms are progressive. > " First comes the Bhava samadhi, which is an intuition in which 3 > exist: I, the subject or meditator, Thou, the meditated upon, and the > relationship between the 2. > In savikalpa samadhi only 2 exist: I and thou. The relationship is > understood, intuited, inexpressible, undefinable. > In nirvikalpa samadhi there is only One. This is advaita. > The residence of the liberated soul is in advaita. Whenever > consciousness becomes absorbed into nirvikalpa samadhi, one becomes a > fully liberated soul in perfect union. When consciousness moves out > of nirvikalpa samadhi, out of advita again, each of us is in the bonds > of action and interaction. Therefore an ego again becomes necessary > in order to maintain an individual form and identity. > Every individual form has some form of individual identity or ego. > Some of the individual egos are divine egos, such as Shree Maa, and > some of the egos are less than divine. > ....We can't be One so long as we have an idea. That is two, the > individual and the idea. " > > Jai Ma Jai Swami > > vishweshwar > > , " Chris " <sadyojataya@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nitin, > > > > There have been some good comments on this thread. The one that stands > > out the most to me is (I forget who said it - sorry) that love of God > > for love's sake is higher than the desire for moksha. This is so true. > > > > Someone also mentioned that there is a distinction between kinds of > > desires. There are essentially selfish and unselfish desires, and > > though the desire for moksha can seem to be a selfish one, I don't > > believe that it is. How can the desire to be our truest self, to live > > as we were always intended to live, be selfish? > > > > We cannot live without desire. Life requires that we act, and we > > cannot act without desire. Only during worship/meditation/samadhi can > > we be without desire entirely, I think. > > > > Swamiji once told me that samadhi was not a good goal. On further > > questioning he explained that it was not the desire for all that > > samadhi is that is the problem, but the act of desiring itself, that > > becomes an obstacle to its attainment. There is a letting go that is > > necessary. You can use the desire for samadhi for motivation, but it > > needs to be somewhere in the very back of your mind. If you are always > > " looking for it " , you will not find it. > > > > So in that sense, you are quite correct. If you are constantly saying > > " Am I free yet? " , you will not experience that moksha. But if you can > > use the desire for that freedom to motivate you, but can let it go > > when it is time for worship, it will not be an obstacle. That is my > > understanding. > > > > In samadhi there is only I and Thou, and ultimately only Thou (or I). > > Desiring a state of being brings a third object into the mix, and I > > and Thou cannot manifest. Loving God for love's sake brings us right > > into the proper relationship. > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Nik " <ntngpt@> wrote: > > > > > > Jai Jagdambe ! > > > > > > Is aspiring for Moksha is a reflection of desire ? Well, I mean to > say > > > that if somebdoy is worshipping for the purpose of Moksha ? Will > he be > > > considered ineligible for moksha since he still has a desire > remaining > > > i.e of Moksha. What I feel is that for Moksha, the person need to be > > > free of desires. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Nitin > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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