to Tanmaya about the worth of mythology

[Guest guest]

Dear Tanmaya ~ thank you so much for your keen and devotional views of the Chandi. I too, being a student of Joseph Campbell, Mircea Eliade and others, believe in the power of "myth," and believe that these ancient stories carry profound truths to those who can read between the lines. They also serve as mythic "morality tales," a way of passing along modes of behavior and training for spirituality practice. Their power is not reduced by considering them to be Myth. I hold all these with the greatest respect. Your well thought out views are keenly articulated, and I appreciate you for sharing them.

 

When I was studying early cultures, I was fortunate to take an ethnomusicology class at the Univ. of MD. The class was run by a teacher (shaman) who was born and grew up in the Andes. She held the small class (5 of us) in the format of a ritual, and each class we "practiced" many different methods of tapping into our own primordial memories. I particularly was interested in Navajo culture, partially because I have always felt a pull that way and partly because, in their ritual practices, including the Blessingway, they combine visual art and ritual practices. In fact, there is one author (whose name I can't remember right now ... sorry) who has written a book showing linkages between Navajo sand painting and Tibetan mandala making. Both have strong visual similarities and at the end of the ritual, the sand painting/mandala is destroyed. The author posits that Tibetan practices were transferred by tribal movements across the Bering Straits land mass, which existed in ancient times, and down into the Americas.

 

In studying the Blessingway, and other cultures', use of myth and ritual I noticed a common thread, to, as you stated, (it) "takes one far back, prior to the evolution of modern mankind's ethical sensitivities and reason-based world view." I learned that a primary reason for this was that these cultures held a profound belief that to relive the creation story was to go back to that moment in time, before time, that primordial moment, when nothing was created in discrete form, where all was potential and possibility. I believe that part of the reason for this, besides opening our view up, is to go back to a space where all is potential and anything may take place. It is a place of miracles, of prescient creativity, and in the Blessingway and other chant ways is used to move the recipient(s) to a space where healing is possible.

 

I have been profoundly affected and my consciousness changed by reading these ancient "stories." I believe they use mythology to speak "truth to wisdom," and, while they may be regarded as "myths," they also are the carriers of profound learnings and spirituality practice techniques. I have also discovered, in my "travels" through other cultures, that, at base, all are One, and Truth is Truth. These spirituality belief systems, when the drama of cast of characters and costume are removed, speak ,aessentially, the same basic Truths.

 

Thank you for your insights, for sharing your well thought out and practiced view of what the Chandi means.

I too appreciate what you bring to the group ~ Linda P.S. where does one find an original translation, or do you have to understand Sanskrit to read them?

 

 

Tanmaya wrote:

 

The Chandi is very ancient, if not primeval. Its story is archaic andprofoundly mythical. It takes one far back, prior to the evolution ofmodern mankind's ethical sensitivities and reason-based world view.I understand Swamiji's choice to psychologize and interpret the Chandistory microcosmically in terms of ethics and principles of spiritualpractice in his translation. To do so was probably an absolutenecessity in order to bring the Chandi into the modern world, and todo so, no doubt, also shows the Swami's genius.My personal preference, however, is to leave the story unaltered, withno compromise for the "modern mind"; to view the Chandi as one viewsKali--totally and eternally beyond the the pale of humanunderstanding: "Crazy is my Father [shiva], crazy is my Mother [Kali],and I their child am crazy too---" Ramprasad.Or from Brahma's hymn to the Goddess: "You are the primordial cause ofeverything..You are the dark night of periodic dissolution; You arethe great Night of final dissolution, and the terrible night ofdelusion. You are the Goddess of good fortune, the ruler, modesty,intelligence, bashfulness, nourishment, contentment, tranquillity andforbearance. Armed with sword, spear, club, discus, conch, bow andarrows, slings and iron mace, you and terrible, and at the same timeYou are pleasing, yea, more pleasing than all pleasing things--- andexceedingly beautiful."In preferring the non-interpreted, sanskrit original version, I am notbeing disloyal to our Swami. One is free to approach the Goddessaccording to one's own light and predilections. Maharaj himself saidthree or four months ago-I think it was on a web broadcast-that if hewere to translate the Chandi now it would be completely different.Continuing to speak personally, the Chandi is not essentially amoral and ethical teaching, or a manual of spiritual practice. It isan enormously powerful myth, which, used correctly, opens a mysticaldoorway to the Mother's Presence.The Chandi is an unfathomable Mystery (in the ancient usage of theword) which human analysis and intellect can never penetrate. What doyou do with Shree Maa's exclamation about the book: "I love Chandi; Ilove Chandi---because She's Mommy!"?Sometimes I feel uneasy when people seem to be trying to derive toomuch from the storyline of Chandi. I'm sure there are folks right nowconvinced they have found a reference and warning in the Book ofRevelations describing the current financial crisis.I think one can go too far in trying to make the Chandi a book ofmoral disicipline, or a manual of spiritual practice. I believe ChandiIS spiritual practice. She will open the Door to the Mother, andMother Herself will reveal what we need to know in those respects.More importantly, for more reasons than I care to enumerate here, Ibelieve that to take any of the blood-curdling violence of the Chandistories as models for our own behavior--or even attitudes--is acomplete misreading of the intent of the Chandi. It is not for us tokill our thoughts or anything else. A Chandi devotee doesn't solve problems with violence, nor is consumedby a search for power. A true Chandi devotee surrenders to the Mother.Therefore such a devotee has no need to "figure things out".As I see it, the true Chandi devotee knows that Mother not only iseverything, but does everything as well. Such a devotee, therefore,rests content in the utmost peace, because she, or he, has surrenderedunconditionally everything to the Mother in unconditional Love.New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out!

[Guest guest]

Dear Linda,

 

Thank you.

 

[As I recall, the gentle Hopi (the brahmins of the native americans)

who were driven from their once extensive lands by the invading

Navaho, whom the Hopi came to call the head smashers, have it in their

stories that early on one half of their tribe migrated, flew, or

whatever, to Tibet, and that at some future time, which would hearald

a golden age, the two peoples would re-unite.]

 

********

 

I hope I don't seem to be advocating moral anarchy by of some of the

things I said. With your background, I'm sure you wouldn't assume

that, though not everyone has gone through Jung, Campbell, etc.

 

Once, Shree Maa said very forcefully, " I hate rules! " . Yet, She is a

paragon of dharma. So how to understand that? I believe She views

each of Her children as a 'snowflake', entirely unique, so that what

is appropriate for one, what works for one, may not work for others.

 

Formal rules and dogmas steriotype behavior, stifle originality, and

preclude enlightenment--thought they work very well where robots are

required as in West Point, the Marine acadamy, and, perhaps, large

organized religions.

 

Having said that, such standards are still very necessary at first;

we just have to know that they are the beginning, not the end, of

spiritual life. -And how much time are we to give ourselves to become

free? Its so comfortable to lie back in a soft bed of rules and dogma.

Its so exhilarating to be right.

 

I think Whitman said, " Taking everything to use it, yet quickly

leaping beyond it " .

 

To take this thought a little further, if you watch Shree Maa very

closely, you will notice that She never repeats. Whereas we ourselves

operate on patterns, and run our " tapes " throughout life, until we are

so bored with ourselves (as is everyone else as well) that it is an

absolute necessity to die and start fresh again. Eternal life in such

a state would be hell leading to insanity.

 

Shree Maa is spontaneous. Every gesture, every word, every mood, every

act, every tone of voice, every inflection and manifestation of Her

life is eternally new and appropriate to that moment alone. It has

never happened before and will never happen again in just that way.

I'm sure that She is never bored; She is certainly never boring.

 

She lives as lightly as a snowflake falling through warm air, or as a

Samori peach blossom floating to Earth; if you think you know Her, or

can predict Her next move, She has already changed. To watch Shree Maa

closely from this point of view will simply take your breath away.

 

I've seen Shree Maa change completely within one sentence in response

to a new circumstance. It is so natural and graceful that one wouldn't

even notice unless one is watching for it.

 

Everyone knows that however you may twist and turn, you can't get

ahead of Shree Maa. Whatever you do or say, She is there ahead of you.

As the words are yet forming to come out of your mouth, Her face is

already in an expression responsive to those uncompleted words, an

expression that is not always favorable. And later on, in retrospect,

when you move out of that Divine cyclone, you clearly see that She was

exactly right, whereas you were often wrong.

 

Shree Maa doesn't rehearse, doesn't repeat, and is always instantly

and spontaneously right. A human being (an 'ego') simply can't do

that, or even come close. Sri Ramakrishna said, " An expert dancer

can't take a false step " . And this is the best indicator of Shree

Maa's Divinity.

 

And it is also the source of true Dharma.

 

I've lived a long number of years in this western culture and I know

that we tend to make golden calves. We tend to get a little bit of

truth and then impose it on others-if they want to 'be saved'.

 

Although I'm not picking on any one thing or person, I'm using this

point to go one step further: if we really want to 'be saved' we must

somehow find our way to that primordial source of things where Shree

Maa dwells continuously. ( " I love Chandi--because She's Mommy! " ).

 

And I fully and truly believe that this true individualality and

spontaneity, this divine 'skill in action', is the immediate future of

mankind, and the only thing which will save us from the construct of

confusion which presently rules our Earth. But we must get on the ball

and get there quickly!

 

There is no task on Earth at this time more important. And I know that

we can do it if we will only try. The gods are rooting for us!

 

 

[The Tibetans have left Tibet and met their Hopi brothers--the golden

age is upon us.]

 

 

It's a new heaven and a new Earth.

 

Tanmaya

 

 

 

 

 

, nierika wrote:

>

> Dear Tanmaya ~ thank you so much for your keen and devotional views

of the Chandi. I too, being a student of Joseph Campbell, Mircea

Eliade and others, believe in the power of " myth, " and believe that

these ancient stories carry profound truths to those who can read

between the lines. They also serve as mythic " morality tales, " a way

of passing along modes of behavior and training for spirituality

practice. Their power is not reduced by considering them to be Myth.

I hold all these with the greatest respect. Your well thought out

views are keenly articulated, and I appreciate you for sharing them.

>

> When I was studying early cultures, I was fortunate to take an

ethnomusicology class at the Univ. of MD. The class was run by a

teacher (shaman) who was born and grew up in the Andes. She held the

small class (5 of us) in the format of a ritual, and each class we

" practiced " many different methods of tapping into our own primordial

memories. I particularly was interested in Navajo culture, partially

because I have always felt a pull that way and partly because, in

their ritual practices, including the Blessingway, they combine

visual art and ritual practices. In fact, there is one author (whose

name I can't remember right now ... sorry) who has written a book

showing linkages between Navajo sand painting and Tibetan mandala

making. Both have strong visual similarities and at the end of the

ritual, the sand painting/mandala is destroyed. The author posits

that Tibetan practices were transferred by tribal movements across

the Bering Straits land mass, which existed in ancient times, and

down into the Americas.

>

> In studying the Blessingway, and other cultures', use of myth and

ritual I noticed a common thread, to, as you stated, (it) " takes one

far back, prior to the evolution of modern mankind's ethical

sensitivities and reason-based world view. " I learned that a primary

reason for this was that these cultures held a profound belief that

to relive the creation story was to go back to that moment in time,

before time, that primordial moment, when nothing was created in

discrete form, where all was potential and possibility. I believe that

part of the reason for this, besides opening our view up, is to go

back to a space where all is potential and anything may take place.

It is a place of miracles, of prescient creativity, and in the

Blessingway and other chant ways is used to move the recipient(s) to

a space where healing is possible.

>

> I have been profoundly affected and my consciousness changed by

reading these ancient " stories. " I believe they use mythology to

speak " truth to wisdom, " and, while they may be regarded as " myths, "

they also are the carriers of profound learnings and spirituality

practice techniques. I have also discovered, in my " travels " through

other cultures, that, at base, all are One, and Truth is Truth. These

spirituality belief systems, when the drama of cast of characters and

costume are removed, speak ,aessentially, the same basic Truths.

>

> Thank you for your insights, for sharing your well thought out and

practiced view of what the Chandi means.

> I too appreciate what you bring to the group ~ Linda P.S. where

does one find an original translation, or do you have to understand

Sanskrit to read them?

>

>

> Tanmaya wrote:

>

>

> The Chandi is very ancient, if not primeval. Its story is archaic and

> profoundly mythical. It takes one far back, prior to the evolution of

> modern mankind's ethical sensitivities and reason-based world view.

>

> I understand Swamiji's choice to psychologize and interpret the Chandi

> story microcosmically in terms of ethics and principles of spiritual

> practice in his translation. To do so was probably an absolute

> necessity in order to bring the Chandi into the modern world, and to

> do so, no doubt, also shows the Swami's genius.

>

> My personal preference, however, is to leave the story unaltered, with

> no compromise for the " modern mind " ; to view the Chandi as one views

> Kali--totally and eternally beyond the the pale of human

> understanding: " Crazy is my Father [shiva], crazy is my Mother [Kali],

> and I their child am crazy too--- " Ramprasad.

>

> Or from Brahma's hymn to the Goddess: " You are the primordial cause of

> everything..You are the dark night of periodic dissolution; You are

> the great Night of final dissolution, and the terrible night of

> delusion. You are the Goddess of good fortune, the ruler, modesty,

> intelligence, bashfulness, nourishment, contentment, tranquillity and

> forbearance. Armed with sword, spear, club, discus, conch, bow and

> arrows, slings and iron mace, you and terrible, and at the same time

> You are pleasing, yea, more pleasing than all pleasing things--- and

> exceedingly beautiful. "

>

> In preferring the non-interpreted, sanskrit original version, I am not

> being disloyal to our Swami. One is free to approach the Goddess

> according to one's own light and predilections. Maharaj himself said

> three or four months ago-I think it was on a web broadcast-that if he

> were to translate the Chandi now it would be completely different.

>

> Continuing to speak personally, the Chandi is not essentially a

> moral and ethical teaching, or a manual of spiritual practice. It is

> an enormously powerful myth, which, used correctly, opens a mystical

> doorway to the Mother's Presence.

>

> The Chandi is an unfathomable Mystery (in the ancient usage of the

> word) which human analysis and intellect can never penetrate. What do

> you do with Shree Maa's exclamation about the book: " I love Chandi; I

> love Chandi---because She's Mommy! " ?

>

> Sometimes I feel uneasy when people seem to be trying to derive too

> much from the storyline of Chandi. I'm sure there are folks right now

> convinced they have found a reference and warning in the Book of

> Revelations describing the current financial crisis.

>

> I think one can go too far in trying to make the Chandi a book of

> moral disicipline, or a manual of spiritual practice. I believe Chandi

> IS spiritual practice. She will open the Door to the Mother, and

> Mother Herself will reveal what we need to know in those respects.

>

> More importantly, for more reasons than I care to enumerate here, I

> believe that to take any of the blood-curdling violence of the Chandi

> stories as models for our own behavior--or even attitudes--is a

> complete misreading of the intent of the Chandi. It is not for us to

> kill our thoughts or anything else.

>

> A Chandi devotee doesn't solve problems with violence, nor is consumed

> by a search for power. A true Chandi devotee surrenders to the Mother.

> Therefore such a devotee has no need to " figure things out " .

>

> As I see it, the true Chandi devotee knows that Mother not only is

> everything, but does everything as well. Such a devotee, therefore,

> rests content in the utmost peace, because she, or he, has surrendered

> unconditionally everything to the Mother in unconditional Love.

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