Manjusha ; Swami's response:Q + A with Swami: Asuras?

[Guest guest]

Dear Kalidas,

(or should I call you Thubten Namgyal or Ananda Bhairav? I'm sorry, I

get confused with so many different IDs. My name's Manjusha, but Maa

has selected Manjushri for me- and Swamiji gave me an irresistibly

wonderful explanation on the meaning of the word, which helped me

define my spiritual objectives)

Thank you for your well considered response!

You have visualised the Deva -Asura dichotomy very well! Churners of

the oceans of our mind!!!Hope and Fear.

But as to your interpretation of our relative understanding of the

'elephant' I tend to disagree. If one blind man thinks the elephant is

a tail and another thinks a trunk, or another a leg ... the point is

that ALL are partly right, whereas no one is more right than the

other. They are equally right or wrong. It doesn't matter whether the

blind man has found the ear or head or tail or whatever ... part of

the elephant. Its a part only. It's not better or worse or good or bad.

Let me cite you an example from a sociology book about the relativity

of morals.

An American goes to visit an Eskimo friend in the Arctic. His friend's

wife comes to sleep with him in the night. The American is aghast

because it is against all the ethics he has learnt, and refuses her

overtures. But the Eskimo kills him because he has insulted him. His

society's ethics demanded that his friend accept this highest regard

paid by him and his wife.

I believe this is a true story. The Eskimo was charged by an American

Court for murder. I wish I could give you the reference - I hv

forgotten which book because I read it 30 yrs ago. But the story

stayed in my mind because it was so shocking.

Also, did you know that what may be considered food in one society may

turn the stomach of a person from another? (Without going into further

details...)

The same goes for us. We each are saying our perspective is more

correct. Whereas the truth is that each of us are only representing a

tail or a trunk. What is really required is to not be blind - to see

the light and to recognise the WHOLE truth.

I think the Chandi Path is about this enlightenment - We pray to the

Divine Mother to help us open our eyes to find the whole truth, and

not to be fooled by what we perceive from a limited viewpoint - Devoid

of Clear Understanding, Self Conceit and Self Deprecation, and other

thought forms.

I was reading in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna by Mahendranath Gupta

that Ramakrishna recounts a vision of the Ganges as a beautiful woman

rising out of the water... Let me look it up and continue in my next

mail so that I may not make a mistake and describe the context

accurately.

Well, Valmiki found Rama by repeating his name as 'Mara' Mara. And

remember the story Swamiji said in his classes on Shiva Puja about the

servant who achieved Sadhana by repeating something innocuous told by

his master's Guru?

I think eventually, we have to be touched by divinity to believe

first, and then set out on the path to find the TRUTH. And to be

touched by divinity, we have to be either lucky enough to find Shree

Maa and Swamiji, or search until we find the divinity in ourselves -

through prayers, Satsang....

 

Brother Kalidas, Your discourse is highly stimulating and creative!

Thank you once again! I would be glad to continue and will certainly

return with Ramakrishna's story about the Ganges.

 

Lots of Love

Manjushri

 

, Thubten Namgyal

<anandabhairav wrote:

>

> Dear Manjushri,

>

> Perhaps it is less confusing to see the the deva/asura dichotomy in a

> psychological sense as Hope and Fear. These truly are two sides of

> the same coin because intrinsic to hope is a fear that one will not

> achieve one's aims, and in fear there is always the hope of things

> turning out right. The ocean of our mind is truly churned by hopes

> and fears and the evanescent drama of our life in this world with its

> joys and sorrows arises in dependence on them.

>

> I don't think that you can say that it doesn't matter what one

> perceives simply because there is an element of relativity to our

> interaction with our objects of experience. I think that perhaps

> Svamiji is saying is that for flies, excrement might be an excellent

> and delightful food... but we would come to woe if we in our human

> form tried to subsist on such a diet.

>

> An important application of this is that we should never be too

> zealous in our proclamations of Truth, excluding the paths and

> proclivities of others. This does not mean that we dispense with the

> Absolute. However, we must realize that all *paths* to wisdom have

> more to do with our dis-ease and confusion than with the goal itself.

> From the point of view of Reality, all " practice " is a kind of vanity,

> but one that is absolutely necessary for those of us that are confused

> to engage wholeheartedly and one-pointedly in.

>

> With love,

>

> Kalidas

>

> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:29 AM, misra_manjusha

> <misra_manjusha wrote:

> > Namaste Vish,

> >

> > The second part of Swamiji's answer is the one that's been

intriguing me

> > actually! I think he's brought the real issue I had in mind, to the

> > forefront.

> > If objects change their perspectives depending on how you look at

them, does

> > it mean that it does not really matter how you look at things

(because that

> > might depend on which society you live in or where you come from)

because it

> > doesn't change the reality.

> > Is our spirituality geared towards 'seeing' the entire object

without being

> > biased by any particular perspective? (I remember a certain story

about an

> > elephant and blind men)

> > Would that mean Dev and Asuras are two sides of the same coin?

> >

> > Thanks Vish for engaging the discussion.

> > Jai Maa and Jai Swamiji!!!!

> >

> > Manjushri

> >

> > , " inspectionconnection108 "

> > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote:

> >>

> >> Namaste Manjusha: here are Swami's answers to your questions below

> >>

> >> SWAMI said:

> >> " Everything in manifested existence has both.

> >>

> >> Also there is a way of looking at things, so that something that

> >> appears as negative to one individual could appear as positive to

> >> another. "

> >> _______________

> >>

> >>

> >> Is there any geographical/historical connotation? Or do we all have

> >> both the shining and dark forces within us?

> >>

> >> Jai Maa & Jai Swamiji

> >> Manjushri

> >>

> >

> >

>