ekam guru--dharma sandehA.

January 19, 2010

Dear Mythreya,

The following part is a controversial sensitive one with respect to Dharma Shastram as well as Laukeekam. Plz. note that my intentions are not to offend anyone, but want the knowledge dissemination happen, especially on how to decide & with what basis decisions has to be taken for all the stake holders involved in it. 1. It is a very common saying in our Sanathana Dharma that (I do not know where is it said in Shastras) that Father is the first guru for the child. (Thanthai Sol mikka Mandhiram Illai). If a father advises his son to do something / not to do something (Spiritual & Materialistic), and the son does not accept the advice (as it is against his self-vested Materialistic & Spiritual interests). He tries to convince his father to substantiate his views, but in vain. The father finally gives in (though unwilling & hurt at heart) for the sake of his

son. Is it not a Sin / Papam rendered to the First Guru. My conviction is that Guru is an Entity who is free from all bonds / sins. The father today would also had been a son / grandson many years back, and he too could have comitted different Sins (Knowingly / Unknowingly ) to his First Guru / Ancestors as a part of his Karma Life Cycle. In that case how can a common man (who is prone to comitting sins) becomes a First Guru to his offspring ? Even though it is deemed to be a Sin, would like to know on what basis it is deemed as a Sin / Not a Sin, and what is the Prayaschittam to absolve such sins committed to Parents (knowingly / unknowingly as a part of Karma )? 2. My another conviction is that Guru is a one who guides you for Liberation (Moksha). As a Gnana Shoonyam, I do not know what is Moksha and how will it be. A person who has attained liberation can only guide a person to liberation. How a person who is existent on Planet Earth

with a physical form can guide another person (as a disciple) for liberation ? If a Guru cannot guide a disciple for liberation (Moksha), can he be still called as a Guru ? 3. Also, how to adjudge a spiritual person as a Guru ? Can a person have multiple Guru(s) for his spiritual guidance ? In that case, if the guidances are conflicting, what should the disciple do ? Which to follow ? Which not to follow ? I know that you had written a lot about Guru Tattwa, but I do understand that everytime you write, you convey the same concept / upayam in different perceptions which widens the iota knowledge base for readers like me. I know that you are pre-occupied with several other engagemennts. I would again humbly request you not to ignore the above queries, but to take your own time in responding to the above queries in different perspectives.

Looking forward to hear from you, Thanks & Regards, Harekrishna S V

I had some time today while Im awating some term-exam results so let me answer a few questions,I thought though being a Tuesday(a departure from my Saturday/Sunday rule).Maybe if time does not permit,this Saturday I might not be able to answer your queries.Please send your emails on Thursday/Friday.

--Mythreya.

See below replies to your questions.

1. It is a very common saying in our Sanathana Dharma that (I do not know where is it said in Shastras) that Father is the first guru for the child. (Thanthai Sol mikka Mandhiram Illai). If a father advises his son to do something / not to do something (Spiritual & Materialistic), and the son does not accept the advice (as it is against his self-vested Materialistic & Spiritual interests). He tries to convince his father to substantiate his views, but in vain. The father finally gives in (though unwilling & hurt at heart) for the sake of his son. Is it not a Sin / Papam rendered to the First Guru. My conviction is that Guru is an Entity who is free from all bonds / sins. The father today would also had been a son / grandson many years back, and he too could have comitted different Sins (Knowingly / Unknowingly ) to his First Guru / Ancestors as a part of his Karma Life Cycle. In that case how can a common

man (who is prone to comitting sins) becomes a First Guru to his offspring ? Even though it is deemed to be a Sin, would like to know on what basis it is deemed as a Sin / Not a Sin, and what is the Prayaschittam to absolve such sins committed to Parents (knowingly / unknowingly as a part of Karma )?

Answer:

If the 'advice' given by the physical father to the son is not correct and the son does not do it,then there is little karmA attached to it.There would be some bad karmA attached to not following a father's advice and hurting him but the karmA is negligible.

This is a vague question.It depends on facts and circumstances of the case.

Example 1: If the father has enemity with some good man and asks his son to kill the man.And the son refuses to do it due to athikramana of mAnava dharmA, then the son does not get any pApa much.Maybe a slight bad karmA(akin to swatting a mosquito and killing it) due to ingratitude towards father and raising a feeling of hurt in the father for disobeying his order.It is the duty of the son to counsel his father against the unrighteous action.Or if the son is really spiritually capable like parashurAma and the father highly spiritual like jamadagnI,then can do the henious act and then resurrect the person again and also do the prayaschittA for the same.In kaliyugA no son is a parasurAma and no father a jamadagnI so avoiding such courses of action is sane.

Example 2: If the father orders his son to rape a woman because of enemity with her husband.The son refuses to do it for the same reason as above,then there is neither sin nor karmA attached to it.Rather, the father gets the sin/bad karmA of asking his son,whom he should guide on the righteous path.Raping a woman is one of the panchamahApAthakAs and to ask his very blood to do it is a henious sin.

Example 3: If the father advices son to follow some good principles and the son rejects it.Then the son accrues sin or bad karmA depending the quality of advice,amount of non-adherence to the act,the amount of hurt brought upon one's father.

prayaschittam means "prayah:" +"chittam"=the chitthA-consciousness is renewed and purified cathartically.This is the true meaning of the word.So, there is no count or rule like do 10,008 times gayatrI and you will be absolved of this sin.

No! nothign like that.Yet we see,parasurAma sitting in keralA and doing prAyaschittham for mAthruhathyA dOshA for many years.Till the karmA is absolved,the chitthA will suffer from the pangs of the sin.So, the moment the karmA is released,the chitthA will know that the sin has dissolved.

A true indicator of the release of sin is the perceptive and subtle feeling deep that one is not a sinner.

It is said Mother is the first guru of the child.

I think you got it wrong here scripturally(maybe guided by seergAzhi Govindarajan ji's film song) and even commonsensically.Rare is a case where mother is not the first guru of a child.I think the concept of guru is seen by you as a male dominion(basically with the gayatrI mantra upadeshA(brahmOpades'A) etal) but actually it is gender nuetral.

Mother is the first Guru of the child.

Father the second Guru.

Mother and father together teach the child many things from walking to encouraging in studies.The child apes and learns from its Mother and Father.

The scripture says mAthAprathamam gurum,pithAdwitiyam guru.

But the scripture does not say "mukhya guru"(important Guru)

In the case of prahalAdhA, did he follow His father hiranyakasipU?

So, as I said it depends on facts and circumstances of each and every individual circumstance and case.There is no generalized rule as such.

It is for convinience and to inculcate a sense of discipline in loukeekam(especially) we say things like:"ThAyAi chirantha kovilummilAi, thanthai sol mikka manthiram illai"

Else the fabric of the society would renegade to peridition if chaos is prevalent and children keep disobeying their parents,rebel and revolt for everything.Look at the state of USA.What has independence and freedom done to the kids there?

Analyze the crime statistics there especially of juvinile delinquency and you will know it is worst than any "under-developed country".USA is fast becoming a nation of delinquents and the main spiritual reason for this is disrespect of parents and elders.

(The epithet:"thAyai sirandha kovilummilai..." and "Annaiyum pithAvum munneri deivam..." have all be said by agathiyyar(Sage AgasthyA) and SeergAzhi Govindarajan Avargal sings that with his Ghaneer-kural the song as if advicing the child in the movie.But nAdi granthAs(agathiyarin elAyiram vAkkukadal and others) tell a different story.Those epithets were pronounced by Him for the sake of Lord Shiva and Goddess Ambika in divine exuberance.

So films should not teach us concepts.It is just meant for entertainment.Maybe we can be inspired a bit now and then but we must maintain our logical mind too(vichakshanA gnAnam).I know,me being quite young, who should 'logically' be seeing movies with a girlfriend in theatres, sound like a ninety year old person saying all this to you but then this is the fact.

mOkshA guru is something different.He or in a rare case She comes in the final leg of one's spiritual journey.The AthmA's spiritual journey.

There can be "n" number of Gurus...there can be "any" number of Gurus but mOkshA guru is just one.

If you carefully read my postings.I keep also talking of guru tatwa more than even guru.

Guru is a concept more in the disciple's mind,heart and soul than the Guru Himself.This is what defines guru-tathwA.

Sometimes even a guru can do a sin.

But his disciple should not commit that sin.

"Do not do what the Guru does only what He asks you to do"

is taken at a different dimension and applied here.

In the case of Milarepa the Guru was a charlatan,yet Milarepa became enlightened.Not that He did not have a guru lateron.But then the guru-tatwa in Him was put to test by the almighty.If you have this subtle divine substance called "guru-tatwa" in you then you are fit for spirituality.It is as simple as that.

And even in the case of guru,He too was a shishyA of His guru and His guru the shishyA of His guru and so on...So how many gurus back would you go back?.....This is a futile exercise....(This is drawing to the attention of your quoted example of your father being the son of his father...)

Gurus are of different kind.

So one must use vichakshana gnaNa and vivekA to follow or not follow some precepts.If it is harmless or non-adhArmic though not beneficial to you but yields some happiness for your father,then it is your karthavyA to perform it as a rinA for giving you this human frame.Human frame being essential in the quest of mOkshA.

2. My another conviction is that Guru is a one who guides you for Liberation (Moksha). As a Gnana Shoonyam, I do not know what is Moksha and how will it be. A person who has attained liberation can only guide a person to liberation. How a person who is existent on Planet Earth with a physical form can guide another person (as a disciple) for liberation ? If a Guru cannot guide a disciple for liberation (Moksha), can he be still called as a Guru ? There is one word to answer your question and it is "AvatAram".

"Descent of God"---God descends for man to ascend.

You might be a gnAna shUnyA as you claim but you are not a vishya-shUnyA?

People use such mock-humility phrases to berate some concepts which they have in heart subtly.This should be avoided.

You might not know what mOkshA is but certainly you have heard the word.

Certainly you have some vishayagnAna of it.It might not be enough.But certainly you are discerning enough to understand that it concerned with something otherwordly and thus a doubt(sandehA---that which is attached to body is called sandehA they never say sanAthmA! So that is why they say when a soul starts doubting the body atatched to it perishes--"samshayAthmA vinashyathI".Genuine doubts are different from outright suspicions) arises in your mind as to how a human being with all His or Her frailities can guide me to mOkshA?

You attend a class for your competitive exam, say Civil Services(IAS as is called in India);the teacher there is not an IAS officer.Yet you do what he asks you to do and you clear your exams.The teacher there is a sikshA guru not mOksha guru.He does sikshA for a material end as in IAS exam but mOkshA guru wants you to pass the exam of God and thus, God Himself has to come down and guide you.

How can He or She come down when you cannot withstand the magnanimity? How to enact the leelA of it all?

He/She does it in human frame.

You must surely have heard of Nisargadatta Maharaj of Mumbai.The rickshawallah(who sold beedis) who was instrumental in writing of the book "Iam that" which became internationally famous.

He too needed a Guru.His Guru also used to smoke like Him but was an avadhuthA.There is a wrong conception that avadhUthAs done need gurus.

Nisargadatta

EVERYONE NEEDS A GURU.

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj was born in Mumbai (Bombay) in March, 1897. His parents, who gave him the name Maruti, had a small farm at the village of Kandalgaon in Ratnagiri district in Mahrashtra.

Maruti's father died when the boy was eighteen, leaving behind his wife and six children.. Maruti and his older brother left the farm to look for work in Mumbai. After a brief stint as a clerk, Maruti opened a shop selling children's clothes, tobacco, and leaf-rolled cigarettes, called beedies, which are popular in India. The shop was modestly successful and Maruti married in 1924. A son and three daughters soon followed.

When Maruti was 34, a friend of his, Yashwantrao Baagkar, introduced him to his guru, Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj, the head of the Inchegeri branch of the Navanath Sampradaya. The guru gave a mantra and some instructions to Maruti and died soon after. Sri Nisargadatta later recalled:

"My Guru ordered me to attend to the sense 'I am' and to give attention to nothing else. I just obeyed. I did not follow any particular course of breathing, or meditation, or study of scriptures. Whatever happened, I would turn away my attention from it and remain with the sense 'I am'. It may look too simple, even crude. My only reason for doing it was that my Guru told me so. Yet it worked!"

Nisargadatta's guru, Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj

Within three years, Maruti realized himself and took the new name Nisargadatta. He became a saddhu and walked barefoot to the Himalayas, but eventually returned to Mumbai where he lived for the rest of his life, working as a cigarette vendor and giving religious instruction in his home.

The success of Iam That, first published in English translation in 1973, made him internationally famous and brought many Western devotees to the tenement apartment where he gave satsangs.

At the time of his death in 1981 he was his guru's successor as the head of the Inchegari branch of the Navanath Sampradaya. He was 84 years old.

So, if you notice here,the beediwallah(or rickshawallah if you please) did not have such questions about human guru and how he could possibly give him mOkshA?

But with our scriptural knowledge, reading too many stories,texts,siddhAnthAs,internet blogs,websites,etc.We start acting smart internally.

Notice the simple words which Maharaj uses:

"My only reason for doing so was because my Guru told me to do so"

This is what is needed.This is the tatwa,I was talking about.

This is hard and especially harder for one who is highly intelligent and educated.For an educated mind is ever-cautious,seeks reason,seeks causes and effects,sees logic more,wants perfection,etc.

These have no meaning in spirituality.No meaning in Guru-shishyA relationship

The relationship might be perfectly care-free

The relationship might be perfectly reasonless

The relationship might be perfectly without a reason,rina or a cause(just sheer ahethukI kripA)

The relationship might be very very illogical

The relationship might be highly imperfect.

Yet,if the guru tatwa is there,there is a tAratham(crossing) by the disciple.It is as SIMPLE as that or as DIFFICULT as that.It depends on how you look at it.

To truly embrace guru-tatwa one must be fearless,suspicionless and illogical!

3. Also, how to adjudge a spiritual person as a Guru ? Can a person have multiple Guru(s) for his spiritual guidance ? In that case, if the guidances are conflicting, what should the disciple do ? Which to follow ? Which not to follow ?

Scriptures say many things about how to adjuge a spiritual person.

But I say it is an attitude and karmA within the person to come to his/her guru..

The moment you use a word like "adjudge" you are in a judgemental mode.And avadhUthAs like Shirdi Sai Baba or Nisargadatta would start playing Games with you.Very funny but enlightening Games to puncture the innate ego.This is the God in them in human form.

Spiritual guidance initially needs the prop of more than one Gurus,unless the disciple is really born for a cause and karmA.There is no harm in trying out various concepts in spirituality and listening to mahAthmAs.

There is a maturity level of the disciple which is the bedrock in all this matters.

If the spiritual guidances are conflicting then what to do?

So, already there is a forethought that this might happen.If you see, the logical mind is already working on whats,whys and wherefores,on the future,on contingencies and how to tackle them? Instead of saying..."I will respond as my mind,heart and more importantly my soul tells me to the conflicting advices..."

Finally as the maturity level of the disciple increases,then He or She would get his/her mOkshA guru and that is only one.Then there is no conflict.The conflicts dissolve at His/her lotus feet.

Ekam Guru!

Yours Yogically,

Mythreya

******************************************************************************

Mythreya Sreeraam Bhallyjayappalle

(Email: Mythreya.Mythreya)

(Group-owner of Online Spiritual Groups:

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Jaya Sarvamangala! Jaya Raajaraajeshvari!

May ambA rAjarAjeshwarI de'vI bless all of us abundantly!

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