Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two sloka "Guru Vandana". The first sloka is borrowed from my Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows:Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namineI offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in this World.my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it...Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means "in this material world"my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows..Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism. Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean "formless" and "buddhist" - And "pascatya-desa-tarine" means "western country and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got translation as, "You are kindly delivering the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism." He said he couldn't understand the grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said "better leave it alone and let them carry on", chanting daily in incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity.Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada AC Bhakti Vedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it was pointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to be perfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help it would be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is: Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism. sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > > I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two sloka " Guru Vandana " . The first sloka is borrowed from my Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows: > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine > I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in this World. > > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it... > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad > Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken shelter at > His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means " in this material world " > > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows.. > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances unto you, O servant > of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of > Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with > impersonalism and voidism. > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean " formless " and " buddhist " - And " pascatya-desa-tarine " means " western country and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got translation as, " You are kindly delivering the Western countries which are filled with > impersonalism and voidism. " He said he couldn't understand the grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said " better leave it alone and let them carry on " , chanting daily in incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity. > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Richard, If Srila Prabhupada knew sanskrit, and he composed this verse HIMSELF and gave the translation himself to his disciples, are you somehow saying that he didnt know how to compose a verse of sanskrit..? y/s, Ole Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada AC BhaktiVedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it waspointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to beperfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help itwould be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is:Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarineNirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami.You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and deliveringthe Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism. sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66wrote:>> I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has twosloka "Guru Vandana". The first sloka is borrowed from myParama-guru's vandana, which is as follows:> > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale> Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine> I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad BhaktisiddhantaSarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna inthis World.> > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it...> > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale> Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto omvisnupada Sri Srimad> Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken shelter at> His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means "in this material world"> > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows..> > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine> Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisancesunto you, O servant> of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of> Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with> impersonalism and voidism. > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original slokaof Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gauravani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, theyshould be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean "formless"and "buddhist" - And "pascatya-desa-tarine" means "western countryand liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they gottranslation as, "You are kindly delivering the Western countries whichare filled with> impersonalism and voidism." He said he couldn't understand thegrammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskritcomposition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said"better leave it alone and let them carry on", chanting daily inincorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity.> > Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.> Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hi Ole, Prof Shastri said whoever wrote that verse is not a Sanskrit scholar. Prabhupada never claimed to know Sanskrit. He never studied Sanskrit, so who said his translations come from Sanskrit? I worked on two books with HDG and he worked entirely from Bengali translations and commentaries, and had Pradyamna (and me) to look up the word meanings. And what he wrote himself was in English. So no, Prabhupada was not an airline pilot NOR a Sanskrit scholar. And nowhere does he claim to know Sanskrit. Y/s, R -sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup wrote: > > Richard, > If Srila Prabhupada knew sanskrit, and he composed this verse HIMSELF and gave the translation himself to his disciples, are you somehow saying that he didnt know how to compose a verse of sanskrit..? > y/s, Ole > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada AC Bhakti > Vedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it was > pointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to be > perfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help it > would be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is: > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine > > Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. > You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering > the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism. > > sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > wrote: > > > > I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two > sloka " Guru Vandana " . The first sloka is borrowed from my > Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows: > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > > Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine > > I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta > Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in > this World. > > > > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it... > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > > Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om > visnupada Sri Srimad > > Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken shelter at > > His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means " in this material world " > > > > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows.. > > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances > unto you, O servant > > of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of > > Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled with > > impersonalism and voidism. > > > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka > of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura > vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they > should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean " formless " > and " buddhist " - And " pascatya-desa-tarine " means " western country > and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got > translation as, " You are kindly delivering the Western countries which > are filled with > > impersonalism and voidism. " He said he couldn't understand the > grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit > composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said > " better leave it alone and let them carry on " , chanting daily in > incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity. > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger. > > > Sent from Mail. > A Smarter Email. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 One occasion I was shown a mantra by Sat Svarup. I looked at the mantra, which I already learned, and saw it was wrong. So I said, " This is wrong! " SS said he got it from Prabhupada and it MUST be right. I told SS, " I don't care if you got it from the Man on the Moon, it is still wrong! " SS was stumped! SO, what did we do? We walked next door to Prabhupada's room and entered. I told Prabhupada there are two mistakes in this mantra. Then HDG asked me to recite the mantra in question, which I did, to Prabhupad's approval. Then I showed him the mantra that SS claimed Prabhupada himself had written. Prabhupada looked at the paper and told SS (in presence of Srutakirti) that it was a mistake, it should be fixed, and inform the others. Now I know some people have their different " dreams " about Srila Prabhupada, but this is direct association, in person, the real thing. No speculation. No hear say! DIRECT. And if there is any fault in Prabhupada's Vandana I know from experience that he would want it corrected. Like fixing a typo. So are there any Sanskrit scholars who can straighten this out!?? I can't get Prof Shastri to help because he thinks (so little of) the Hare Krishna couldn't accept the plain facts. In other words he considered it a lost cause, because we all know that Prabhupada is right even when he's wrong. And the only person to disagree would be Srila Prabhupada himself. Y/s, R- sacred-objects , " Richard Shaw Brown " <rsbj66 wrote: > > Hi Ole, > > Prof Shastri said whoever wrote that verse is not a Sanskrit scholar. > Prabhupada never claimed to know Sanskrit. He never studied Sanskrit, > so who said his translations come from Sanskrit? I worked on two books > with HDG and he worked entirely from Bengali translations and > commentaries, and had Pradyamna (and me) to look up the word meanings. > And what he wrote himself was in English. So no, Prabhupada was not an > airline pilot NOR a Sanskrit scholar. And nowhere does he claim to > know Sanskrit. Y/s, R > > -sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > If Srila Prabhupada knew sanskrit, and he composed this verse > HIMSELF and gave the translation himself to his disciples, are you > somehow saying that he didnt know how to compose a verse of sanskrit..? > > y/s, Ole > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada AC > Bhakti > > Vedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it was > > pointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to be > > perfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help it > > would be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is: > > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine > > > > Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. > > You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering > > the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism. > > > > sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two > > sloka " Guru Vandana " . The first sloka is borrowed from my > > Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows: > > > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > > > Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine > > > I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta > > Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in > > this World. > > > > > > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it... > > > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > > > Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om > > visnupada Sri Srimad > > > Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken > shelter at > > > His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means " in this material world " > > > > > > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows.. > > > > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > > > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances > > unto you, O servant > > > of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of > > > Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled > with > > > impersonalism and voidism. > > > > > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka > > of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > > > > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura > > vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they > > should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean " formless " > > and " buddhist " - And " pascatya-desa-tarine " means " western country > > and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got > > translation as, " You are kindly delivering the Western countries which > > are filled with > > > impersonalism and voidism. " He said he couldn't understand the > > grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit > > composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said > > " better leave it alone and let them carry on " , chanting daily in > > incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity. > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail. > > A Smarter Email. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Hi Richard, Oh I see. I didnt know that. Thanks for the info. y/s, OleRichard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: Hi Ole,Prof Shastri said whoever wrote that verse is not a Sanskrit scholar.Prabhupada never claimed to know Sanskrit. He never studied Sanskrit,so who said his translations come from Sanskrit? I worked on two bookswith HDG and he worked entirely from Bengali translations andcommentaries, and had Pradyamna (and me) to look up the word meanings.And what he wrote himself was in English. So no, Prabhupada was not anairline pilot NOR a Sanskrit scholar. And nowhere does he claim toknow Sanskrit. Y/s, R-sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup wrote:>> Richard,> If Srila Prabhupada knew sanskrit, and he composed this verseHIMSELF and gave the translation himself to his disciples, are yousomehow saying that he didnt know how to compose a verse of sanskrit..?> y/s, Ole > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote:> I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada ACBhakti> Vedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it was> pointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to be> perfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help it> would be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is:> > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine> Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine> > Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami.> You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering> the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and voidism. > > sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> wrote:> >> > I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two> sloka "Guru Vandana". The first sloka is borrowed from my> Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows:> > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale> > Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine> > I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta> Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in> this World.> > > > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it...> > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale> > Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om> visnupada Sri Srimad> > Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having takenshelter at> > His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means "in this material world"> > > > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows..> > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine> > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances> unto you, O servant> > of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of> > Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filledwith> > impersonalism and voidism. > > > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka> of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura> vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they> should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean "formless"> and "buddhist" - And "pascatya-desa-tarine" means "western country> and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got> translation as, "You are kindly delivering the Western countries which> are filled with> > impersonalism and voidism." He said he couldn't understand the> grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit> composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said> "better leave it alone and let them carry on", chanting daily in> incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity.> > > > Send instant messages to your online friends> http://uk.messenger.> >> > > > > > > > Sent from Mail.> A Smarter Email.> Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Interesting story! But if Srila Prabhupada gave it himself as it is, I think it will be impossible for most to accept a change after so many years... However, I cannot recall now what I remember read about the circumstances of how Prabhupada gave it, it is written somewhere in the Prabhupada Lilamrta by Satsvarupa. I think it was early in Ny.Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: One occasion I was shown a mantra by Sat Svarup. I looked at themantra, which I already learned, and saw it was wrong. So I said,"This is wrong!" SS said he got it from Prabhupada and it MUST beright. I told SS, "I don't care if you got it from the Man on theMoon, it is still wrong!" SS was stumped! SO, what did we do? Wewalked next door to Prabhupada's room and entered. I told Prabhupadathere are two mistakes in this mantra. Then HDG asked me to recite themantra in question, which I did, to Prabhupad's approval. Then Ishowed him the mantra that SS claimed Prabhupada himself had written.Prabhupada looked at the paper and told SS (in presence of Srutakirti)that it was a mistake, it should be fixed, and inform the others. Now I know some people have their different "dreams" about SrilaPrabhupada, but this is direct association, in person, the real thing.No speculation. No hear say! DIRECT.And if there is any fault in Prabhupada's Vandana I know fromexperience that he would want it corrected. Like fixing a typo. So are there any Sanskrit scholars who can straighten this out!?? Ican't get Prof Shastri to help because he thinks (so little of) theHare Krishna couldn't accept the plain facts. In other words heconsidered it a lost cause, because we all know that Prabhupada isright even when he's wrong. And the only person to disagree would beSrila Prabhupada himself. Y/s, R-sacred-objects , "Richard Shaw Brown"<rsbj66 wrote:>> Hi Ole,> > Prof Shastri said whoever wrote that verse is not a Sanskrit scholar.> Prabhupada never claimed to know Sanskrit. He never studied Sanskrit,> so who said his translations come from Sanskrit? I worked on two books> with HDG and he worked entirely from Bengali translations and> commentaries, and had Pradyamna (and me) to look up the word meanings.> And what he wrote himself was in English. So no, Prabhupada was not an> airline pilot NOR a Sanskrit scholar. And nowhere does he claim to> know Sanskrit. Y/s, R> > -sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:> >> > Richard,> > If Srila Prabhupada knew sanskrit, and he composed this verse> HIMSELF and gave the translation himself to his disciples, are you> somehow saying that he didnt know how to compose a verse of sanskrit..?> > y/s, Ole > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote:> > I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada AC> Bhakti> > Vedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it was> > pointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to be> > perfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help it> > would be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is:> > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine> > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine> > > > Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami.> > You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering> > the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism andvoidism. > > > > sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@>> > wrote:> > >> > > I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two> > sloka "Guru Vandana". The first sloka is borrowed from my> > Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows:> > > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale> > > Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine> > > I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta> > Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in> > this World.> > > > > > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it...> > > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale> > > Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om> > visnupada Sri Srimad> > > Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken> shelter at> > > His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means "in this material world"> > > > > > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows..> > > > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine> > > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances> > unto you, O servant> > > of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of> > > Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled> with> > > impersonalism and voidism. > > > > > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka> > of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > > > > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura> > vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they> > should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean "formless"> > and "buddhist" - And "pascatya-desa-tarine" means "western country> > and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got> > translation as, "You are kindly delivering the Western countries which> > are filled with> > > impersonalism and voidism." He said he couldn't understand the> > grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit> > composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said> > "better leave it alone and let them carry on", chanting daily in> > incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity.> > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends> > http://uk.messenger.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail.> > A Smarter Email.> >> Sent from Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Dear Ole, If Srila Prabhupada was here now. And I told him the Sanskrit community find serious fault in the verse of his Vandana. Then HDG would want it corrected. And he would ask me to speak with Prof Shastri to perfect the verse. Which I would do. There is no way that HDG would like to be found and proved as faulty. So to leave it as faulty, and sing it every day in such a way that Sanskrit knowing people would wonder what it was? THIS is a pity. To go down in history as faulty. Another example is during the Prema dhavani (Jaya) exclaimations after kirtan. The correct way is all remain standing and THEN bow after Prema Dhavani, but by mistake, Iskcon bows down during Jaya Prayers. This means if The Gaudiya Math devotees and Iskcon devotees have kirtan together, then one half (iskcon) will all bow down during Jaya prayers, but GM people will remain standing. And they wonder, " What is going on here? " In this other way Iskcon is faulty, but it cannot be fixed. Y/s, R- sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup wrote: > > Interesting story! > > But if Srila Prabhupada gave it himself as it is, I think it will be impossible for most to accept a change after so many years... > > However, I cannot recall now what I remember read about the circumstances of how Prabhupada gave it, it is written somewhere in the Prabhupada Lilamrta by Satsvarupa. I think it was early in Ny. > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: > One occasion I was shown a mantra by Sat Svarup. I looked at the > mantra, which I already learned, and saw it was wrong. So I said, > " This is wrong! " SS said he got it from Prabhupada and it MUST be > right. I told SS, " I don't care if you got it from the Man on the > Moon, it is still wrong! " SS was stumped! SO, what did we do? We > walked next door to Prabhupada's room and entered. I told Prabhupada > there are two mistakes in this mantra. Then HDG asked me to recite the > mantra in question, which I did, to Prabhupad's approval. Then I > showed him the mantra that SS claimed Prabhupada himself had written. > Prabhupada looked at the paper and told SS (in presence of Srutakirti) > that it was a mistake, it should be fixed, and inform the others. > > Now I know some people have their different " dreams " about Srila > Prabhupada, but this is direct association, in person, the real thing. > No speculation. No hear say! DIRECT. > > And if there is any fault in Prabhupada's Vandana I know from > experience that he would want it corrected. Like fixing a typo. > > So are there any Sanskrit scholars who can straighten this out!?? I > can't get Prof Shastri to help because he thinks (so little of) the > Hare Krishna couldn't accept the plain facts. In other words he > considered it a lost cause, because we all know that Prabhupada is > right even when he's wrong. And the only person to disagree would be > Srila Prabhupada himself. Y/s, R- > > sacred-objects , " Richard Shaw Brown " > <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ole, > > > > Prof Shastri said whoever wrote that verse is not a Sanskrit scholar. > > Prabhupada never claimed to know Sanskrit. He never studied Sanskrit, > > so who said his translations come from Sanskrit? I worked on two books > > with HDG and he worked entirely from Bengali translations and > > commentaries, and had Pradyamna (and me) to look up the word meanings. > > And what he wrote himself was in English. So no, Prabhupada was not an > > airline pilot NOR a Sanskrit scholar. And nowhere does he claim to > > know Sanskrit. Y/s, R > > > > -sacred-objects , Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > If Srila Prabhupada knew sanskrit, and he composed this verse > > HIMSELF and gave the translation himself to his disciples, are you > > somehow saying that he didnt know how to compose a verse of sanskrit..? > > > y/s, Ole > > > > > > > > > Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> wrote: > > > I personally knew and associated with Srila Prabhupada AC > > Bhakti > > > Vedanta Swami. And I remember he corrected a mantra when it was > > > pointed out. And I believe he would want his Guru Vandana to be > > > perfect Sanskrit. If any of you Sanskrit Pandits can kindly help it > > > would be much appreciated... The verse to be considered is: > > > > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > > > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine > > > > > > Our respectful obeisances unto you, O servant of Sarasvati Gosvami. > > > You are kindly preaching the message of Gaurasundara and delivering > > > the Western countries which are filled with impersonalism and > voidism. > > > > > > sacred-objects , Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have many Gurus. Four of them are prominent. One of them has two > > > sloka " Guru Vandana " . The first sloka is borrowed from my > > > Parama-guru's vandana, which is as follows: > > > > > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > > > > Srimate bhakti-siddhanta-sarasvatiti-namine > > > > I offer pranama unto om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta > > > Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura Prabhupada, who is very dear to Krsna in > > > this World. > > > > > > > > my Guru adopted this for his own use by making it... > > > > > > > > Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhutale > > > > Srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namineI offer pranama unto om > > > visnupada Sri Srimad > > > > Bhaktivedanta Svami, who is very dear to Krsna, having taken > > shelter at > > > > His lotus feet. - NOTE: Bhutale means " in this material world " > > > > > > > > my Guru composed the 2nd sloka for his own use, as follows.. > > > > > > > > Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine > > > > Nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarineOur respectful obeisances > > > unto you, O servant > > > > of Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of > > > > Gaurasundara and delivering the Western countries which are filled > > with > > > > impersonalism and voidism. > > > > > > > > Prof Shastri said the first sloka was a copy of the original sloka > > > of Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati. > > > > > > > > But he could not make out the 2nd sloka. Saraswati deve AND gaura > > > vani pracarine are not the same tense (according to Jamini, they > > > should be). And the words, Nirvisesa-sunyavadi simply mean " formless " > > > and " buddhist " - And " pascatya-desa-tarine " means " western country > > > and liberator. Prof Shastri could NOT understand how they got > > > translation as, " You are kindly delivering the Western countries which > > > are filled with > > > > impersonalism and voidism. " He said he couldn't understand the > > > grammer, or lack of it. And said it was not correct Sanskrit > > > composition and language. I suggested he rewrite it correctly. He said > > > " better leave it alone and let them carry on " , chanting daily in > > > incorrect Sanskrit. I think it is a pity. > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > > http://uk.messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail. > > > A Smarter Email. > > > > > > Sent from Mail. > A Smarter Email. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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